DH sobered up, I'm contemplating an EA, advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a good thread. One thing I'm wondering about, as a child of an alcoholic (maybe two) and a confirmed cheater, is if there is a worry that an affair - physical or even emotional - would drive DH (or DW) back to drinking. Just seems a natural consequence in addition to the ones that go with cheating generally, and one my family endured.

Maybe that is giving the alcoholic too much control?

Not your responsibility. The alcoholic is responsible for their own drinking. If the world ended tomorrow, it's still their choice to drink or not. You have to let go of the illusion that you can control the alcoholic's drinking.

Agree. My experience was - I helped her get and stay sober, sacrificed some professional and other opportunities - not a lot, but enough - and what I got was a sexless marriage and emotionless spouse. When I was overseas for a short work trip and met in person for the first time someone interesting who works in the same group, we went out for drinks a social event and I we ended up staying out very late and got a bit flirty. When the thought crossed my mind that she might be interested in a one night stand (she's single), none of the "negative" thoughts involved "oh, my wife might start drinking again." It was the other things people have mentioned here , had that thought occurred to me, I think I would have dismissed it with "she's on her own now, I did my part" and moved on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, that came out wrong. I'm sure DH is worth it if you get there, would you have married him if not? Again, good luck.

the PP you were responding to and no worries, no offense, I dont disagree. I'm in my early 40's but I have 2 young kids I adore and a stable home life and a big job. I wish like hell I had more confidence that I could improve my sex life, but I dont - it was never rockin' to begin with with DH (we were well matched in every other way and I thought I had had my fun in my 20's, I could live with it). Given all that has transpired it's hard to imagine him becoming a stud in the sack at this point. I've gone back and forth about it, as you can tell from my musings with OP about my very elaborate fantasies about the guy with the sexy voice, but what I come to in my saner moments (and what I've been trying to convey to OP) is that we have so much going for us: we're good parenting partners, happy kids, jobs that only work because of how we share the responsibilities, and I think we can get back to at least being good friends again. Should I really give that up for the possibility of good sex? I've been tempted but it just doesn't seem rational.

Fire away - maybe I should...?

OP here - well, geez, don't do that after your thoughtful and helpful comments! (by the way, I found a couple leads on counselors with addiction specialties, fortunately (?) there appears to be a lot of recovering alcoholics who need therapy in my area). Is the sexy voiced guy unique in your fantasies, or do you fantasize about others you know, or is he just what appears to be the best fit? I ask because you say you never spend any time alone together, so how sure could you be he would be what you want? My fixation, as a former colleague, we spent significant time together on various projects, which were stupid and we had similar attitudes about them that helped our connection.

Do you have that with this OM? Or maybe he's just that sexy? Anyway, just some food for thought. And thank you again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My life is going to shit so I guess I'll have an affair. Yeah, that'll help.

Nah, the OP had the affair, she is just practicing her story for when she goes to counseling with DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, that came out wrong. I'm sure DH is worth it if you get there, would you have married him if not? Again, good luck.

the PP you were responding to and no worries, no offense, I dont disagree. I'm in my early 40's but I have 2 young kids I adore and a stable home life and a big job. I wish like hell I had more confidence that I could improve my sex life, but I dont - it was never rockin' to begin with with DH (we were well matched in every other way and I thought I had had my fun in my 20's, I could live with it). Given all that has transpired it's hard to imagine him becoming a stud in the sack at this point. I've gone back and forth about it, as you can tell from my musings with OP about my very elaborate fantasies about the guy with the sexy voice, but what I come to in my saner moments (and what I've been trying to convey to OP) is that we have so much going for us: we're good parenting partners, happy kids, jobs that only work because of how we share the responsibilities, and I think we can get back to at least being good friends again. Should I really give that up for the possibility of good sex? I've been tempted but it just doesn't seem rational.

Fire away - maybe I should...?

OP here - well, geez, don't do that after your thoughtful and helpful comments! (by the way, I found a couple leads on counselors with addiction specialties, fortunately (?) there appears to be a lot of recovering alcoholics who need therapy in my area). Is the sexy voiced guy unique in your fantasies, or do you fantasize about others you know, or is he just what appears to be the best fit? I ask because you say you never spend any time alone together, so how sure could you be he would be what you want? My fixation, as a former colleague, we spent significant time together on various projects, which were stupid and we had similar attitudes about them that helped our connection.

Do you have that with this OM? Or maybe he's just that sexy? Anyway, just some food for thought. And thank you again.

Haha, glad they were helpful! Let us know if the counselors have any available time - the one my therapist recommended said he couldn't see us for 4 months! (I eventually found others but the demand is striking!). As I've said, even/especially if I divorced, I dont have the time or emotional energy to build a meaningful relationship with someone new - Mr. Voice was a good fantasy because he would be all about sex! I have spent time with him with others - commanding authoritative presence, nice body, etc. I haven't come across anyone I can imagine trying to have a relationship with. Anyway, OP, I mentioned that we are starting therapy soon, and all of a sudden DH has started being attentive (like, 'how about if we order takeout and have dinner together after the kids go to sleep?' which may not sound like a big step but we've not done that since the older one was a baby). Part of me feels like he's preparing so he can face the therapist and say he's trying, but on the other hand, who cares what makes him do it as long as he means it.

Anyway, best of luck with the therapist, and as I've said all along, my $0.02 is that as long as you have hope/intent to make it work, do your best to live right (even though the temptation is totally completely understandable). Anything else would sabotage your chances. If you decide you're not seeing the results you need, and you lose the hope that your marriage can be saved, go for it. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Fire away? Well, not sure I want to convince someone to give all that up. But you seem more than a little conflicted. There's the bolded part above, and you also wrote, "I havent had an affair but have had many serious fantasies about it - if the opportunity had really presented itself in a compelling way I might have." So, "very elaborate and serious fantasies" along with contemplation of actually carrying it through. That's a bit more than casual fantasizing about an attractive colleague/acquaintance (sexy voice or not). You said he was unobtainable for whatever reason, would the fantasizing be just as intense if he was obtainable with a little work? Or would that be too scary? The unobtainability might make it "safe," unless he suddenly starts being interested and that falls away, stranger things have happened (I suppose if he's gay then you're safe). More broadly and in the longer term, someone might come along without that hurdle. I guess if the fantasizing is a "safe escape" from no physical relationship, then it's less serious boding for the future than if it's something you are wishing would happen.

More importantly, in my mind, is do you think the fantasizing will stop if you and DH get back to some kind of, but not good, physical relationship? Or at least move back to a more "normal" level? Also, if the fantasized OM is truly unobtainable then it would be giving up the marriage for the possibility of good sex with someone other than that person, plus the mess of divorce and what sounds like would be shared custody. You also hit on it, "possibility," no guarantee OM is "rockin' in the sack."

All that said, overall, you list great reasons for staying. Also, you mentioned counseling above, so clearly you have decided give it a go, intense fantasies or not. On balance, probably the right decision if you are truly serious about reconciling and not checking a box on the way to divorce (or affair). I get the feeling it's the former and the right choice. And sounds like DH is in for some surprises, shocks, and unpleasant realities. Are you planning on sharing this and related thoughts with him? Not sure I have advice on that. Maybe it depends on whether he knows the OM, and hard to say which direction that might push a decision. If he's really unobtainable and DH knows/can be shown that, then it would seem much less threatening. But that's really a small part of therapy - bigger fish to fry I would say for now.

That's a lot of free form psychoanalysis/questions on an anonymous message board, so, you get what you pay for.

So, it was definitely more than harmless fantasy, which is why I chimed originally to respond to OP. It consumed me for a while. Maybe only because he's unattainable (not gay, but married, high profile and not likely to take the risk), but it was way more intense than any crush/fantasy I've had before. Possibly just that I'm in my early 40s and about a year and a half out of a 5 year period of either being pregnant or nursing, so maybe my hormones are just going wild. But I went through all the same rationalizations as OP- this would make me feel better, DH doesn't give me what I need, he sort of deserves it for sneaking around on me, etc." And during that time if the OM had appeared in my office door and tried to seduce me I would have been a goner, no question. At any rate, I have put aside the rationalizations and realized that doing it would surely make fixing my marriage far more difficult, if not impossible. So I'm giving the marriage a try, but if we cant get to a place where I feel reasonably satisfied (sexually and otherwise) I guess I'll need to move on. I'm depressed at the thought of never having great sex again (there go those 40YO hormones!) but the rest of it matters too. And yes, DH is going to hear some of this, although maybe not the detail of who we're talking about and what he did to me in my fantasies

[Anonymous]

If I understand rightly, you are considering having an affair with a married man?
It seems to me that this only perpetuates the trauma onto another victim - the married man's wife.

I know grief and psychological trauma can lead you to desperate measures... been there, done that myself, and I regret it. I went through a phase similar to yours with my husband and had an affair with a single co-worker. That was bad enough, with private and professional fall-out. Please consider another way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here, that came out wrong. I'm sure DH is worth it if you get there, would you have married him if not? Again, good luck.

the PP you were responding to and no worries, no offense, I dont disagree. I'm in my early 40's but I have 2 young kids I adore and a stable home life and a big job. I wish like hell I had more confidence that I could improve my sex life, but I dont - it was never rockin' to begin with with DH (we were well matched in every other way and I thought I had had my fun in my 20's, I could live with it). Given all that has transpired it's hard to imagine him becoming a stud in the sack at this point. I've gone back and forth about it, as you can tell from my musings with OP about my very elaborate fantasies about the guy with the sexy voice, but what I come to in my saner moments (and what I've been trying to convey to OP) is that we have so much going for us: we're good parenting partners, happy kids, jobs that only work because of how we share the responsibilities, and I think we can get back to at least being good friends again. Should I really give that up for the possibility of good sex? I've been tempted but it just doesn't seem rational.

Fire away - maybe I should...?

OP here - well, geez, don't do that after your thoughtful and helpful comments! (by the way, I found a couple leads on counselors with addiction specialties, fortunately (?) there appears to be a lot of recovering alcoholics who need therapy in my area). Is the sexy voiced guy unique in your fantasies, or do you fantasize about others you know, or is he just what appears to be the best fit? I ask because you say you never spend any time alone together, so how sure could you be he would be what you want? My fixation, as a former colleague, we spent significant time together on various projects, which were stupid and we had similar attitudes about them that helped our connection.

Do you have that with this OM? Or maybe he's just that sexy? Anyway, just some food for thought. And thank you again.

Haha, glad they were helpful! Let us know if the counselors have any available time - the one my therapist recommended said he couldn't see us for 4 months! (I eventually found others but the demand is striking!). As I've said, even/especially if I divorced, I dont have the time or emotional energy to build a meaningful relationship with someone new - Mr. Voice was a good fantasy because he would be all about sex! I have spent time with him with others - commanding authoritative presence, nice body, etc. I haven't come across anyone I can imagine trying to have a relationship with. Anyway, OP, I mentioned that we are starting therapy soon, and all of a sudden DH has started being attentive (like, 'how about if we order takeout and have dinner together after the kids go to sleep?' which may not sound like a big step but we've not done that since the older one was a baby). Part of me feels like he's preparing so he can face the therapist and say he's trying, but on the other hand, who cares what makes him do it as long as he means it.

Anyway, best of luck with the therapist, and as I've said all along, my $0.02 is that as long as you have hope/intent to make it work, do your best to live right (even though the temptation is totally completely understandable). Anything else would sabotage your chances. If you decide you're not seeing the results you need, and you lose the hope that your marriage can be saved, go for it. Good luck!

Omg, this is my DH before counseling. It annoys me so much, it does not last in his case but he feels pretty darn good about his act for the counselor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If I understand rightly, you are considering having an affair with a married man?
It seems to me that this only perpetuates the trauma onto another victim - the married man's wife.

I know grief and psychological trauma can lead you to desperate measures... been there, done that myself, and I regret it. I went through a phase similar to yours with my husband and had an affair with a single co-worker. That was bad enough, with private and professional fall-out. Please consider another way.

OP here - Yes, I know - if you've read the posts you'll see I've turned away from the idea in favor of counseling. As you say, psychological trauma and desperate measures - but turns out reaching out helps, something I've always found hard to do up until now, so I keep coming back here more often since my pseudo-exposition in this post. But thank you for the gentle and well meant reminder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If I understand rightly, you are considering having an affair with a married man?
It seems to me that this only perpetuates the trauma onto another victim - the married man's wife.

I know grief and psychological trauma can lead you to desperate measures... been there, done that myself, and I regret it. I went through a phase similar to yours with my husband and had an affair with a single co-worker. That was bad enough, with private and professional fall-out. Please consider another way.

OP here - Yes, I know - if you've read the posts you'll see I've turned away from the idea in favor of counseling. As you say, psychological trauma and desperate measures - but turns out reaching out helps, something I've always found hard to do up until now, so I keep coming back here more often since my pseudo-exposition in this post. But thank you for the gentle and well meant reminder.

Oops, sorry OP, didn't read everything through! Strength to you. Could you take a rejuvenating vacation, just yourself and child? I did that. Wrangling a toddler single-handed in a lovely tourist hotspot was heaven compared to staying at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So, it was definitely more than harmless fantasy, which is why I chimed originally to respond to OP. It consumed me for a while. Maybe only because he's unattainable (not gay, but married, high profile and not likely to take the risk), but it was way more intense than any crush/fantasy I've had before. Possibly just that I'm in my early 40s and about a year and a half out of a 5 year period of either being pregnant or nursing, so maybe my hormones are just going wild. But I went through all the same rationalizations as OP- this would make me feel better, DH doesn't give me what I need, he sort of deserves it for sneaking around on me, etc." And during that time if the OM had appeared in my office door and tried to seduce me I would have been a goner, no question. At any rate, I have put aside the rationalizations and realized that doing it would surely make fixing my marriage far more difficult, if not impossible. So I'm giving the marriage a try, but if we cant get to a place where I feel reasonably satisfied (sexually and otherwise) I guess I'll need to move on. I'm depressed at the thought of never having great sex again (there go those 40YO hormones!) but the rest of it matters too. And yes, DH is going to hear some of this, although maybe not the detail of who we're talking about and what he did to me in my fantasies

PP here - Uh, there's a separate board for that.... Backing up though, are those things DH did to you? Or, if not, things you would want him to do? Does he know that? If so, maybe mention it again? If not, mention for the first time? Maybe mentioning it ruins the fantasy? Or is it more of a being swept off your feet by the unknown, so it wouldn't work for DH? Can't fix that. Maybe you're worried he'd recoil at what the things you want are? Hard to fix that, OTOH, DH could be interested.... And, in the meantime, you can share with us!

Good luck in counseling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, it was definitely more than harmless fantasy, which is why I chimed originally to respond to OP. It consumed me for a while. Maybe only because he's unattainable (not gay, but married, high profile and not likely to take the risk), but it was way more intense than any crush/fantasy I've had before. Possibly just that I'm in my early 40s and about a year and a half out of a 5 year period of either being pregnant or nursing, so maybe my hormones are just going wild. But I went through all the same rationalizations as OP- this would make me feel better, DH doesn't give me what I need, he sort of deserves it for sneaking around on me, etc." And during that time if the OM had appeared in my office door and tried to seduce me I would have been a goner, no question. At any rate, I have put aside the rationalizations and realized that doing it would surely make fixing my marriage far more difficult, if not impossible. So I'm giving the marriage a try, but if we cant get to a place where I feel reasonably satisfied (sexually and otherwise) I guess I'll need to move on. I'm depressed at the thought of never having great sex again (there go those 40YO hormones!) but the rest of it matters too. And yes, DH is going to hear some of this, although maybe not the detail of who we're talking about and what he did to me in my fantasies

PP here - Uh, there's a separate board for that.... Backing up though, are those things DH did to you? Or, if not, things you would want him to do? Does he know that? If so, maybe mention it again? If not, mention for the first time? Maybe mentioning it ruins the fantasy? Or is it more of a being swept off your feet by the unknown, so it wouldn't work for DH? Can't fix that. Maybe you're worried he'd recoil at what the things you want are? Hard to fix that, OTOH, DH could be interested.... And, in the meantime, you can share with us!

Good luck in counseling.

PP again, I meant to add, more seriously, that if it was more than harmless fantasy and you're in counseling with DH, maybe stay away from OM as much as possible? Maybe a reason to share who it was with DH if it keeps you honest, although sounds like you've made your peace with it/OM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If I understand rightly, you are considering having an affair with a married man?
It seems to me that this only perpetuates the trauma onto another victim - the married man's wife.

I know grief and psychological trauma can lead you to desperate measures... been there, done that myself, and I regret it. I went through a phase similar to yours with my husband and had an affair with a single co-worker. That was bad enough, with private and professional fall-out. Please consider another way.

OP here - Yes, I know - if you've read the posts you'll see I've turned away from the idea in favor of counseling. As you say, psychological trauma and desperate measures - but turns out reaching out helps, something I've always found hard to do up until now, so I keep coming back here more often since my pseudo-exposition in this post. But thank you for the gentle and well meant reminder.

Oops, sorry OP, didn't read everything through! Strength to you. Could you take a rejuvenating vacation, just yourself and child? I did that. Wrangling a toddler single-handed in a lovely tourist hotspot was heaven compared to staying at home.

OP here - no worries, and no toddler here. A solo vacation might help, on the other hand it is loaded with temptation.

[Anonymous]

I have recently enjoyed some lovely vacation time with kids, no husband. Our marriage has been seriously strained the past year due to unemployment and addiction. he has been sober for 3 months. rebuilding the trust and intimacy is very hard. we have not had sex since I learned he was lying again about drinking. I have forgiven him. He is trying very hard. But the intimacy and trust will take longer to rebuild.

In the meantime, I do lots of things to make myself feel better. And one of them is time with the kids without him. It gives me peace and control. My kids are elementary school age, so not super demanding anymore. I have not considered a EA, but have thought about divorce in a few years or 10 years if we can't improve the marriage. I am in it now, to make things better, but also know that addiction has very high relapse, so not sure if I am in it forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So, it was definitely more than harmless fantasy, which is why I chimed originally to respond to OP. It consumed me for a while. Maybe only because he's unattainable (not gay, but married, high profile and not likely to take the risk), but it was way more intense than any crush/fantasy I've had before. Possibly just that I'm in my early 40s and about a year and a half out of a 5 year period of either being pregnant or nursing, so maybe my hormones are just going wild. But I went through all the same rationalizations as OP- this would make me feel better, DH doesn't give me what I need, he sort of deserves it for sneaking around on me, etc." And during that time if the OM had appeared in my office door and tried to seduce me I would have been a goner, no question. At any rate, I have put aside the rationalizations and realized that doing it would surely make fixing my marriage far more difficult, if not impossible. So I'm giving the marriage a try, but if we cant get to a place where I feel reasonably satisfied (sexually and otherwise) I guess I'll need to move on. I'm depressed at the thought of never having great sex again (there go those 40YO hormones!) but the rest of it matters too. And yes, DH is going to hear some of this, although maybe not the detail of who we're talking about and what he did to me in my fantasies

OP here - I missed this post I guess because you were replying to someone else. Wow. Not sure I could call my fantasy consuming, although it might have been a close call for me being a "goner" depending on the day. Did you see OM during this period? If so, that must have been mind blowing, perhaps not in a good way. I guess if he has no idea you're obsessing about him then there was no chance of anything happening (and maybe you didn't see him).

DH and I made a counseling appointment, unfortunately not with an addiction specialists as we decided doing this sooner rather than later was better than waiting for another month. Did you have your appointment yet (you said this week I think)? If so, how did it go? Was it your first time in counseling together? Did you discuss this or is way too early for that? We've never been in counseling, so I just have no idea what to expect. Do we slowly ease into the process, or do I just blurt out all my feelings and confessions (and anger and resentment)? I worry about being accusatory since I share in the blame, on the other hand to the extent I shoulder some of that DH engaged the same behavior, plus all the lying, etc. surrounding drinking.

[Anonymous]

OP, I've known a woman who went down the road of the affair once her husband was finally in recovery from drug addiction. She had stood by him for years, and at this point something in her kind of cracked. It was like they didn't know how to go forward together in a new way, in a healthy way where she wasn't his caretaker, and they also didn't have a way for each of them to process her years of anger and pain. Guilt on his side, anger and resentment on hers. They ended up divorcing in a rather ugly way. Yet years later they have become best friends. Their kids suffered so much.

I hope you have good luck with your couples therapist. You both need the help to look at yourselves now that the addictive acting out is on hold. Now you look at what's underlying, what causes it, and your interactions. You have to have patience, and he has to be sincere and work hard. Don't sabotage yourselves. You need a healthy way to process all the anger, pain, damage, and fear you've experienced dealing with his addiction and his behaviors.

At this point, you would probably both benefit from AA and Al-Anon, respectively.

I'm working through this kind of thing with my partner, and it's slow going.