Delaying a divorce

[Anonymous]

OP, I’m the never married family law attorney poster who wrote the long supportive post.

Two things I want to offer, and without judgment - just to help you keep perspective.

1) Think about the pain you are experiencing over this betrayal of the marriage vows, and how it has upended your whole world to know he’s been having a long term affair and probably others along the way. Think about the husband and children of your DH’s affair partner, oblivious to the train wreck about to drop into his life. Consider sending this poor man an anonymous note alerting him to the infidelity his wife is engaging in. I know you run the risk of being found out as the tattler, but it could have come from someone else - surely they have other coworkers, and many people find infidelity disgusting and sympathize with the cuckolded spouses. But even if it does get back to you, what harm is there in that? A court won’t punish you for that one act. It’s not going all Betty Broderick to send one communication alerting a man to his wife’s infidelity. Maybe he’ll choose to ignore it - if he does, go no further. But I would feel very guilty letting another person suffer the dishonesty and gaslighting even one minute further if I had the ability to give them the chance to see reality.

2) I understand your son’s love is a comfort to you at all times and especially now, but please - even though you’re feeling very vulnerable now - make the effort to seek other avenues for support over your sadness and upset re:the marriage breakdown. Teenaged kids aren’t supposed to be their parents emotional crutches, and the effects when they are put in that position can be very damaging. I’m sure you have no intention to hurt your son, and you may not realize the damage this can cause - but it’s such a studied phenomena that it has a label in family counseling (emotional incest) and is a whole area of study and therapy. I was myself a victim of this growing up - my mother was very unhappy in her marriage to my father, and she shared in great detail with me information from inside their relationship that I didn’t need to hear as a preteen and teenager. It really damaged my ability to forge intimate relationships in later life and it messed up my relationship with my father and mother both. I already saw and heard enough - as your son likely has - by witnessing the outward dynamics between them and hearing my father express emotional cruelty to my mother far too often. I didn’t need to be the one she turned to for unloading her pain and venting her frustrations. That’s what you should be sharing with adult friends, adult family and an adult therapist.

Please read this and do an honest self assessment of the dynamic you’re creating with your teen son. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goodtherapy.org/blog/emotional-covert-incest-when-parents-make-their-kids-partners-0914165/amp/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No judge will order college costs. It just isn't done.

Says someone with no experience of divorce law, apparently.

The following states have laws or case law that give courts the authority to order a non-custodial parent to pay for some form of college expenses: Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, West Virginia and Washington. As you can see, this is about half of the states in the union. Even in states that do not require divorced parents to pay for college, and even if all support for children stops at graduation from high school or age 18, if the parents have made an agreement to pay for their children’s college expenses, those terms would be enforced.

NP and your post is very misleading and for that reason inaccurate. There are very few states (far less than half) where paying for college can be ordered by the judge on his/her own accord rather than on the basis of an agreement incorporated into the divorce. There are a few other states where child support can be ordered after graduation from high school but it requires a showing of a very severe disability.

As just one example, you are wrong about Maryland, by the way, it ends at the later of 18 or graduation from high school / turning 19.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No judge will order college costs. It just isn't done.

Says someone with no experience of divorce law, apparently.

The following states have laws or case law that give courts the authority to order a non-custodial parent to pay for some form of college expenses: Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, West Virginia and Washington. As you can see, this is about half of the states in the union. Even in states that do not require divorced parents to pay for college, and even if all support for children stops at graduation from high school or age 18, if the parents have made an agreement to pay for their children’s college expenses, those terms would be enforced.

NP and your post is very misleading and for that reason inaccurate. There are very few states (far less than half) where paying for college can be ordered by the judge on his/her own accord rather than on the basis of an agreement incorporated into the divorce. There are a few other states where child support can be ordered after graduation from high school but it requires a showing of a very severe disability.

As just one example, you are wrong about Maryland, by the way, it ends at the later of 18 or graduation from high school / turning 19.

DP. You are conflating 'child support' with an agreement to cover part of the costs of the children's college tuition. An agreement can be made to cover college tuition costs even when the parent isn't getting paid monthly child support.

What kind of *sshole cuts their ties with their kids and runs of with the Ho and her kids and lets their own suffer? That's a rhetorical question . I would leave no stone unturned, including child's future inheritance/trust, $ set aside, etc..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m the never married family law attorney poster who wrote the long supportive post.

Two things I want to offer, and without judgment - just to help you keep perspective.

1) Think about the pain you are experiencing over this betrayal of the marriage vows, and how it has upended your whole world to know he’s been having a long term affair and probably others along the way. Think about the husband and children of your DH’s affair partner, oblivious to the train wreck about to drop into his life. Consider sending this poor man an anonymous note alerting him to the infidelity his wife is engaging in. I know you run the risk of being found out as the tattler, but it could have come from someone else - surely they have other coworkers, and many people find infidelity disgusting and sympathize with the cuckolded spouses. But even if it does get back to you, what harm is there in that? A court won’t punish you for that one act. It’s not going all Betty Broderick to send one communication alerting a man to his wife’s infidelity. Maybe he’ll choose to ignore it - if he does, go no further. But I would feel very guilty letting another person suffer the dishonesty and gaslighting even one minute further if I had the ability to give them the chance to see reality.

2) I understand your son’s love is a comfort to you at all times and especially now, but please - even though you’re feeling very vulnerable now - make the effort to seek other avenues for support over your sadness and upset re:the marriage breakdown. Teenaged kids aren’t supposed to be their parents emotional crutches, and the effects when they are put in that position can be very damaging. I’m sure you have no intention to hurt your son, and you may not realize the damage this can cause - but it’s such a studied phenomena that it has a label in family counseling (emotional incest) and is a whole area of study and therapy. I was myself a victim of this growing up - my mother was very unhappy in her marriage to my father, and she shared in great detail with me information from inside their relationship that I didn’t need to hear as a preteen and teenager. It really damaged my ability to forge intimate relationships in later life and it messed up my relationship with my father and mother both. I already saw and heard enough - as your son likely has - by witnessing the outward dynamics between them and hearing my father express emotional cruelty to my mother far too often. I didn’t need to be the one she turned to for unloading her pain and venting her frustrations. That’s what you should be sharing with adult friends, adult family and an adult therapist.

Please read this and do an honest self assessment of the dynamic you’re creating with your teen son. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goodtherapy.org/blog/emotional-covert-incest-when-parents-make-their-kids-partners-0914165/amp/

+100

To both of these.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is his old ho divorced? Does she have kids of her own?

His old ho is still married! She has 2 grown up kids in college. They plan both get divorces and "unite" for a happy retirement abroad.

DOES HER HUSBAND EVEN KNOW?!?!!!

IF not--you need to call that man immediately.

This is type of a recommendation that I won't be following. Her husband is not my concern and I don't want to be presented like a crazy stalker in the family court. I don' care about her husband. Or even my own husband. Who cares about those dicks.

And, if you are in Virginia, her husband can use her cheating to screw her out of a lot of money.

+1,000

Alimony can be denied in Maryland too

She has a large income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I also concerned that as soon as we divorce, my ex would remarry, and brings the whore to live in my marital home. My son says he won’t even go see his dad or stay there any overnights, if that happens. The son doesn’t want to be bouncing between 2 households. He enters 10th grade in the fall- very intense program, then all the college prep would fall on me, while I am starting a new job. At the moment my husband and I are splitting HW duties , and I have more time for myself. So in a way, delaying is also helping me to delegate many parenting duties dealing with autistic teen in high school. I don’t want my son to be a college dropout, just because dad remarried and had no time for him in high school.

At that age no one can force the son to visit him, I suspect he's probably done with dad for the most part.

Go to court and get divorced, much better than having that creep live with you. You and your son can move forward, and make a nice life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dragging things out in divorce is such a petty behavior. Whether you were wronged or right. It is a controlling holding pattern and abusive. I’d want to be free of it as soon as possible, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I'd argue the controlling and abusive behavior was the years of cheating, gaslighting and emotional abuse.

None of it matters. Work out money and custody and move on. Or, instead of the money going to your child it will all go to attorneys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: am I crazy or there are other women with such logics as well? I just don't see how it would be easier for me if I divorce and live my modest life, when the jerk would bring his whore in the house where I bought our baby. And my son would have to spend 50% with the whore.

First sell the house and split the profits or have him buy you out of your half. Don’t delay divorce thinking you are preventing him from his affair. A high school aged child can decide to spend time with the other parent. That isn’t your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dragging things out in divorce is such a petty behavior. Whether you were wronged or right. It is a controlling holding pattern and abusive. I’d want to be free of it as soon as possible, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I'd argue the controlling and abusive behavior was the years of cheating, gaslighting and emotional abuse.

None of it matters. Work out money and custody and move on. Or, instead of the money going to your child it will all go to attorneys.

NP and I think OP's theory is that 50% of $440K HHI minus attorney fees over X years is greater than 50% of current assets now minus lower attorney fees. At that level of income OP might be right, hard to tell how hard the DH will push for the divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No judge will order college costs. It just isn't done.

Says someone with no experience of divorce law, apparently.

The following states have laws or case law that give courts the authority to order a non-custodial parent to pay for some form of college expenses: Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, West Virginia and Washington. As you can see, this is about half of the states in the union. Even in states that do not require divorced parents to pay for college, and even if all support for children stops at graduation from high school or age 18, if the parents have made an agreement to pay for their children’s college expenses, those terms would be enforced.

NP and your post is very misleading and for that reason inaccurate. There are very few states (far less than half) where paying for college can be ordered by the judge on his/her own accord rather than on the basis of an agreement incorporated into the divorce. There are a few other states where child support can be ordered after graduation from high school but it requires a showing of a very severe disability.

As just one example, you are wrong about Maryland, by the way, it ends at the later of 18 or graduation from high school / turning 19.

DP. You are conflating 'child support' with an agreement to cover part of the costs of the children's college tuition. An agreement can be made to cover college tuition costs even when the parent isn't getting paid monthly child support.

What kind of *sshole cuts their ties with their kids and runs of with the Ho and her kids and lets their own suffer? That's a rhetorical question . I would leave no stone unturned, including child's future inheritance/trust, $ set aside, etc..

PP and the question here is whether OP can get the judge to force the DH to pay for college if he isn't otherwise willing to which it sounds like OP is saying although it's not clear if he was just denying her other requests. The post I responded to presents an inaccurate picture that there are a lot of states where the judge can order payment of college expenses. The age at which child support terminates generally terminates the jurisdiction of the court over child support absent an agreement otherwise.

By the way, the college costs under such an agreement incorporated into the divorce order is generally treated as "child support" and is enforceable through the same methods as what you would traditionally think of as child support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex left over the summer. My 2 kids live with me and I make 85k. I don’t get anything from him except he pays the mortgage on the house me and the kids live in. He cheated on me for years and is still with the woman. My peace of mind with him being out of this house is worth more than any amount of money.

But you stayed in your house for which he pays mortgage, right? Your kids were not uprooted with him moving out? My life will have to change, and my son would be splitting time and possibly living in his birthplace home with his whore

Yes, that’s right. My kids are older like your son so the uprooting thing didn’t bother me as much, I was willing to leave the house with my kids but this is the arrangement we worked out. I know it’s tough, and I’m sorry. I just needed him away from me ASAP, I borderline hate him. He also moved into our basement prior to leaving but even with that I was struggling. I worry about him introducing my kids to the other women too. I hate her. But I mostly have let it go, my kids are older and I have zero control over it. Good luck to you.

How are your kids communicating with dad - did he agree to visitation, or they are old enough and just chose to spend all overnights with you? So basically you make 85K, plus he pays the mortgage for the house. Your income combined is probably about the same as what I would have if I was to move out, except I would need to rent an apartment. I would love to have your arrangement! And that's a problem for me, as I don't want my son to be uprooted. I would love to have the same arrangement as you, but my jerk keeps saying "you have to vacate premises by ...." As if my son has no relationship to me "vacating the premises". I also hate my soon to be ex, can't even see or talk to him. He is so full of himself, and called me names and emotionally abused me for years! We only communicate through lawyers and text/email.

To all telling me managing my anger: I am totally sane and calculative in my logics. I just don't feel I would be any better 1) vacating premises on his terms (e.g. unfavorable settlement that does no good except reducing my standard of living, even comparing to possible trial court outcome ) 2) seeing my son either live with step mom last 2 years of HS, or, to the opposite, seeing my son abandon his dad completely.

I feel like his whore should wait using my closets and splashing in my pool, not I should be moving out in a rush with my son.

They have cell phones and talk/text with their dad. There is no custody/visitation arrangement. He basically works around their schedule as far as when they go to his house (one of my kids has school full time plus a job with varying hours). Mostly they are at my house and sometimes he will come here to pop in for a quick visit with them. I actually like it when they are both with him. Gives me a break and some time to just sit and be alone. Honestly, my kids don't know about any of our drama - the cheating and the emotional turmoil I've been through. We've kept things very civil and we don't talk badly about each other, at least not in front of them. I'm not naive to think they know nothing, but they don't know the dirty/ugly. My younger kid will even invite me to do things with them and I'll just say I'm busy or something. I really do understand about the other woman, OP. I see red when I think about the other woman, but mostly I just don't think about it and I don't ask any questions about it. I'm just trying to focus on the things I do have control over. It sucks, really but it got so much better when we were no longer living together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No judge will order college costs. It just isn't done.

Says someone with no experience of divorce law, apparently.

The following states have laws or case law that give courts the authority to order a non-custodial parent to pay for some form of college expenses: Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, West Virginia and Washington. As you can see, this is about half of the states in the union. Even in states that do not require divorced parents to pay for college, and even if all support for children stops at graduation from high school or age 18, if the parents have made an agreement to pay for their children’s college expenses, those terms would be enforced.

NP and your post is very misleading and for that reason inaccurate. There are very few states (far less than half) where paying for college can be ordered by the judge on his/her own accord rather than on the basis of an agreement incorporated into the divorce. There are a few other states where child support can be ordered after graduation from high school but it requires a showing of a very severe disability.

As just one example, you are wrong about Maryland, by the way, it ends at the later of 18 or graduation from high school / turning 19.

DP. You are conflating 'child support' with an agreement to cover part of the costs of the children's college tuition. An agreement can be made to cover college tuition costs even when the parent isn't getting paid monthly child support.

What kind of *sshole cuts their ties with their kids and runs of with the Ho and her kids and lets their own suffer? That's a rhetorical question . I would leave no stone unturned, including child's future inheritance/trust, $ set aside, etc..

PP and the question here is whether OP can get the judge to force the DH to pay for college if he isn't otherwise willing to which it sounds like OP is saying although it's not clear if he was just denying her other requests. The post I responded to presents an inaccurate picture that there are a lot of states where the judge can order payment of college expenses. The age at which child support terminates generally terminates the jurisdiction of the court over child support absent an agreement otherwise.

By the way, the college costs under such an agreement incorporated into the divorce order is generally treated as "child support" and is enforceable through the same methods as what you would traditionally think of as child support.

OP sounds unreasonable. She wants child support and allimoney plus mortgage and other expense, plus a portion of the house and much more. OP has income so alimony is not appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: am I crazy or there are other women with such logics as well? I just don't see how it would be easier for me if I divorce and live my modest life, when the jerk would bring his whore in the house where I bought our baby. And my son would have to spend 50% with the whore.

First sell the house and split the profits or have him buy you out of your half. Don’t delay divorce thinking you are preventing him from his affair. A high school aged child can decide to spend time with the other parent. That isn’t your choice.

Its not her house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dragging things out in divorce is such a petty behavior. Whether you were wronged or right. It is a controlling holding pattern and abusive. I’d want to be free of it as soon as possible, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I'd argue the controlling and abusive behavior was the years of cheating, gaslighting and emotional abuse.

None of it matters. Work out money and custody and move on. Or, instead of the money going to your child it will all go to attorneys.

NP and I think OP's theory is that 50% of $440K HHI minus attorney fees over X years is greater than 50% of current assets now minus lower attorney fees. At that level of income OP might be right, hard to tell how hard the DH will push for the divorce.

You don't get 50 percent of HHI. If the company was formed during the marriage she may get half of that but she has income so she gets her income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ if you are on the deed, he cannot tell you to vacate the premises. Wtf?

Unfortunately, I am not on the deed of the house where we live as he brought it from his first marriage. I do have a significant equity in it that he has to pay me, but he will retain it regardless. He can't do anything or evict me, as it's still considered a "marital home" as long as we are married. He kind of gets mad because he can't do anything, and I kind of enjoy mooching of him, living in the main house alone with my son, having him "evicted" in the carriage house.

It is interesting to read this little tidbit in light of your comments about the new whore using your closets and splashing in your pool.

Seriously!!! If OP had an affair to start her marriage it’s kind of coming full circle. I do feel bad for the son though.