Spouse/kids excluded from family event

[Anonymous]

1. Everyone expected OP to offer to babysit on the "beer and steaks" night, and BIL has from then on felt that she was selfish and doesn't care for his children.

2. OP's DH, who was very close to his brother, told him what OP said about never visiting again, and it got back to everyone else including the parents. Everyone felt at the time that she didn't like them, had it confirmed, and never let real life show them any differently.

3. They live on opposite coasts, so most interactions are at formal events, and there has never been much opportunity for more genuine relationships to grow, especially because none of them, including OP, was that enthusiastic about the work involved.

4. Someone needs to bring this up in a non-confrontational, non-dramatic way. Start by saying that you are hurt and confused by what happened with the Bar Mitzvah, and that you're willing to listen and not argue. They may roll their eyes and tell you that you're being dramatic, but it's worth a try to be genuine.

OP, I'm guessing that visit was hella awkward for you, and you came across as not particularly warm and friendly, which people with any insight would have realized was the result of being thrown into a poorly-planned weekend with an entire family you barely knew. But these are people who can't understand why you would care if you are excluded from a big family event, so I'll go with no insight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OP's side in my first post, but after rereading and updates, I came to a conclusion that she is prone to drama, and that even shows in her being all hurt about being a "third wheel." That is her perception and I maintain that going on about one and a half days "slight" 10 years ago is not mature at all. But, in light of her new posts, one question that comes to mind, is what is wrong with her BIL? He seems to be holding his whole family emotional hostages. If OP's words are true, "it is about his son, and not OP's drama." Now, I am reading it, "it's all about me, BIL and I love drama."His parents are paying for everything, his brother has turned against his wife and kids for his brother, his parents are trying to keep peace and while they are paying for everything, the have no say in their own son and DIL and grand kids coming to the event they are paying for? Any parents would have told him to shut up and act like a man and stop being immature, but they don't, they told it to their DIL and the other son. As a typical resident DCUM doctor, which I am not...LOL, I am thinking BIL has NPD and has made it all about himself, convinced everybody that he is the victim and SIL and brother are his tormentors. And his own parents and brother have always done all to please him(parents paying for trips for a grown man?) and as usual with NPD there is a that one victim that Narcissist has decided to use as a scapegoat, while all others see none of it and think him a victim. And it might be that SIL wanted attention too, and spoke about it, and well, Narcissist can't have that kind of person around.

I agree with your assessment of someone having NPD, but I don't think it's BIL. I actually think it's OP or her husband.

Possibly, we only have one side and NPD will always make themselves look like a victim, or maybe they both have it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was on OP's side in my first post, but after rereading and updates, I came to a conclusion that she is prone to drama, and that even shows in her being all hurt about being a "third wheel." That is her perception and I maintain that going on about one and a half days "slight" 10 years ago is not mature at all. But, in light of her new posts, one question that comes to mind, is what is wrong with her BIL? He seems to be holding his whole family emotional hostages. If OP's words are true, "it is about his son, and not OP's drama." Now, I am reading it, "it's all about me, BIL and I love drama."His parents are paying for everything, his brother has turned against his wife and kids for his brother, his parents are trying to keep peace and while they are paying for everything, the have no say in their own son and DIL and grand kids coming to the event they are paying for? Any parents would have told him to shut up and act like a man and stop being immature, but they don't, they told it to their DIL and the other son. As a typical resident DCUM doctor, which I am not...LOL, I am thinking BIL has NPD and has made it all about himself, convinced everybody that he is the victim and SIL and brother are his tormentors. And his own parents and brother have always done all to please him(parents paying for trips for a grown man?) and as usual with NPD there is a that one victim that Narcissist has decided to use as a scapegoat, while all others see none of it and think him a victim. And it might be that SIL wanted attention too, and spoke about it, and well, Narcissist can't have that kind of person around.

I agree with your assessment of someone having NPD, but I don't think it's BIL. I actually think it's OP or her husband.

I disagree with you it's MIL. Notice how MIL is always somewhere in the background in these stories. The men ( FIL,BIL and DH) have been held hostage by her all their lives and have figured out a way to cope including doing her dirty work. OP probably dared to challenge MIL ( something minor) and MIL didn't lash out at OP instead she lashed out at the others. BIL has probably born the brunt of MIL's behavior over the years and copes by just keeping her happy and doesn't understand why OP can't just play along-typical symptom of a abused person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are a drama llama. All this about your DH choosing them, now loving your husband less, he loves your kids less, how can a marriage survive...ugh. You are awful. Also you told your BIL the one time you went that you never wanted to come again...guess he took you at your word.

Oh FFS, shut up. This sound pretty awful for OP. It sounds like the BIL is a huge dick and so is his wife. Who the hell excludes a sibling's spouse from a family event like this? The ILs seem pretty messed up too if they say some bullshit about flying out to LA for the Bar Mitzvah would cost too much. I know families who have had to fly out to Israel b/c the Jersey scene wasn't good enough for their kids.

It's just bizarre that the BIL would act so immaturely. I don't care for my husband's brothers' long term girlfriend, but it was a given she was coming to our wedding and our kids' big birthday parties, etc. (if she chose to skip, I would have cared less though). Same with my brother's wife. I wasn't crazy about her either, but I would never have thought to not invite her. Married couples are pretty much invited together to most of these events.

I could understand how it's got to be hard for OP to have everyone ditch her and leave her home with the baby sitter and kids. If you have out of town guests, how is ok to leave one adult at home and go out and meet your in town friends. None of this makes any sense.

OP, I don't have any solution for you (trust me my ILs are kind of like this too), but we generally don't engage too much with them, in general.

NP, but I think OP kind of made her own bed. You can only cry victim for so long (everyone else is to blame for all of this? really?). I'm not saying that OP's husband and the in-laws couldn't have handled it better, but OP sounds like a total drama queen. I'm not sure I'd want her at my kid's special event either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my! This post has taken off.

DH is going by himself for the weekend. Yes, we both assume it will be big (and BIL is not paying for it -- my MIL/FIL are -- who have no big problems with me and just visited us a couple months ago but they are now mad at me because now they think I'm creating a fight between their sons and they really want DH there who they were afraid was going to miss it and don't understand why I can't just "shut-up" -- their actual words and they won't hear that I did NOT say anything-- they think DH didn't need an invitation or to RSVP or don't understand why I would fly with two full-priced kids for one weekend). DH has also decided he will go to our niece's bat mitzvah next year but that he will not invite his brother to any more of our family events (although that won't last because my MIL/FIL will be very upset for the same reason an will probably only be okay with us excluding BIL's family but our girls are young so I'm hoping this is resolved). So, basically both of us are feeling pretty shitty and don't want to be married at this moment.

I'm not going to pretend like my MIL/FIL and I get along great but we are cordial and they would never play that "DH and I are going to grab beers and a streak and we don't have an extra car (SIL was going out with her friends) but you can walk around the neighborhood or hang out at home" like my BIL did the ONE time I visited. I thought it was the right thing to do to be like "no way am I putting myself in that position EVER again but you had a fabulous time so you should feel free to visit whenever you want.". It seemed mature but hindsight is 20/20.

So those speculations about it being small or not having money for me don't make sense. And we've know about the bar mitzvah for over a year -- MIL/FIL told me and BIL had talked about it a lot with DH -- he clearly wasn't going to send an invitation but he definitely invited DH -- and BIL already told DH the date for the bat mitzvah in an email that ONLY says that (as in "We just reserved the venue for Becca's bat mitzvah bash on Oct. 27 2018").

What does make sense -- 1. Yes, I resent my husband for these trips. They are expensive and annoying and his brother had never -- literally not once -- visited us in DC and we find out about his often trips to his in-laws in NY through Facebook, have asked him to visit, and he has said that he doesn't have time or money. When we then point out that we don't have money to visit him, he tells us that FIL will pay (which he would but it's not the point and FIL would pay for his trips too but since he's already flying to NY, he says he can't do DC). I guess I resent them more now but hindsight is 20/20 and if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have put up with this.

2. Yee, I'm not that Jewish. I mean, I was raised Jewish but my mom isn't and it's probably true that they don't consider me a "real" Jew but they are not orthodox so that sounds crazy to me. But again, hindsight is 20/20 so it could have been something but they never said anything to us and we do belong to a synogouge and I swear that my life would have been so much better if they just said something TEN years ago.

3. Yes, my BIl has never said anything "specific" but yes there were the silliest little comments made to me from MIL/FIL like how BIL thought it was gross that I breastfed (FIL told DH who told me) or that I was inappropriate for bringing our newborn baby to my MIL's mother's funeral (MIL was fine but said to DH that BIL was upset). He was irked about our wedding day (said it was inconvenient). Or sometimes BIL says to DH that DH doesn't seem "happy" now that he's married (he IS happy). But NONE of these things were ever said to me and none of these things were ever "big" and all of there things happened WAY after he met me when DH and I were dating and snubbed me. He kind of ignored me when he met me and DH kept trying to steer the conversation to us (it was right before we got engaged so we were quite serious).

4. Yes, we need to go to counseling. I'm not going to bring it up now because we are both in a pretty shitty situation -- he's sleeping on the sofa and we are barely speaking. I've lost a lot of respect for him and he doesn't understand why I'm being "so sensitive" and why I didn't work harder at making things work with his brother 10 years ago and feels like I made my own bed. But post- bar mitzvah weekend when we calm down and get a weekend APART (yes, I am actually HAPPY about it now), I will bring it up.

5. Yes, I am being dramatic and full of self-pity and not taking this well. And it's probably why I am not sharing any of it with my own friends or family because I am embarrassed of my behavior and only with DCUM. I just had a lot dumped on me and am trying to have perspective and "go high".

Now understand BIL's it's not all about you comment. You are one of those aren't you OP. Your newborn was screaming her head off and instead of taking her out you insisted on sitting through the service and just whipped your boobs out in front of the rabbi.

What the f*ck are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

I'm so sorry, OP. I totally understand how this drives a wedge between you and your DH. He's shown by his actions that you two are not a package deal. I cannot imagine how you and your girls could be excluded from this event. It's just not done. Your MIL/FIL should have been advocating for you. I, too, would feel less love for my husband. He's demonstrating it's acceptable for his family to treat you this way.

I hope you go to individual counseling to help you figure out your path forward. Hugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the therapy thing. Truthfully I doubt DH will agree so I should just go asap myself. But just to set the record straight (even though I am hurt by him right now), DH was surprised (more than me -- I think I figured it out when it was under a month from the date and we had no invitation) when I was excluded, fought for me to be included (or at least asked), and then said he wasn't going (although then moped/tantrumed until I relented) despite a lot of pressure from MIL/FIL (I don't think BIL cared). He has kind of had this dumped on him too, since he knew his nephew before he ever met me and has built a relationship with his nephew for 13 years. He feels like it is his brothers loss that he never wanted to get to know our girls and he feels like he shouldn't have to "punish" his nephew or himself because his brother is being "weird" (his words). (And yes I nearly screamed when he called this "weird" and "quirky".)

I just don't see how marriages survive this. DH is not going to "choose" me -- no way if it's between his brother, SIL, and niece/nephew who he knew before me with the pressure from his MIL/FIL to make sure him and his brother stay close as his "first family" (his mom/dad's words). He would have resented me for the rest of my life if he missed that stupid bar mitzvah even and I would have never heard the end of it. DH is going to want the status quo but no way am I going to choose that -- twice a year trips to a brother who has now outwardly and openly treated our girls like that? Even calls are going to make me cringe. And MIL/FIL are fine -- I feel like they are pawns here too -- but basically this has made them chose sides and they are not going to support our marriage if it causes any heartache with BIL/DH.

You are exhausting, op. Every post you make refers to this family drama being a marriage breaker and how you live be each other less because of this. You sound super immature

[Anonymous]

OP, pls excuse typing. Before reading your latest post, i was going to suggest one issue could be your reform branch with them being conservative. Now after reading your post, i think the issue is more your mother not being of jewish lineage. I'm not jewish, but we have had this issue in my family and i have other familiarity with this. Nothing you can do about it. We can't choose our parents, heritage, or the religion / branch of religion our parents raise us in.

I still say there is a financial component to this, but not on BIL end. I think BIL is looking out for DH finances by excluding you and DDs.

It would have been good experience for the cousins on many levels.

It will be alright.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh also, I only told my DH that I would never visit again. I didn't say anything to BIL but thank you for hosting. BIL doesn't say a word to me so that would be very strange for me to say anything to him.

Well it's clear that everyone blabs "secrets" to everyone else-- remenber your breastfeeding drama?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so sorry, OP. I totally understand how this drives a wedge between you and your DH. He's shown by his actions that you two are not a package deal. I cannot imagine how you and your girls could be excluded from this event. It's just not done. Your MIL/FIL should have been advocating for you. I, too, would feel less love for my husband. He's demonstrating it's acceptable for his family to treat you this way.

I hope you go to individual counseling to help you figure out your path forward. Hugs.

Agree. This is really bizarre. You don't exclude family from events like these. And it's bizarre that they don't consider you, or at least your kids, to be family. Plus it's not like there's some rule that only observant Jews -- or any Jews -- are permitted at a bar mitzvah.

Your inlaws sound incredibly petty and selfish. If it were me, I'd go and let them tell me to my face that I'm not invited but my husband and kids are. Screw them. Let them tell me that to my face in front of all their family and friends.

There is clearly something wrong with your BIL. But really this is a problem for your husband and your relationship. You need counseling together. Because if he's not going to stick up for you and your kids, it's time to get out of this relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, pls excuse typing. Before reading your latest post, i was going to suggest one issue could be your reform branch with them being conservative. Now after reading your post, i think the issue is more your mother not being of jewish lineage. I'm not jewish, but we have had this issue in my family and i have other familiarity with this. Nothing you can do about it. We can't choose our parents, heritage, or the religion / branch of religion our parents raise us in.

I still say there is a financial component to this, but not on BIL end. I think BIL is looking out for DH finances by excluding you and DDs.

It would have been good experience for the cousins on many levels.

It will be alright.

That's just crazy. It is the very, very rare Conservative Jew who cares about that, and if they did care, it would have come through loud and clear before they got married.

We are Conservative Jews. My grandmother nearly disowned my uncle because he married a Catholic. My grandfather literally forced her into the car to attend their wedding. But this was 40 years ago -- times were different. My grandmother freely admits these days that she was wrong and stupid.

And if it's financial, it's not BIL's job to protect his brother. Issue the invitation and let DH decline if it's too expensive.

[Anonymous]

OP, your later posts add some helpful info about the weird backstory between you and the BIL. But still don't address wy your DH seems to blame you for the rift between himself and his brother. You said that he said things like "this never happened before you" and "you made your bed, now you have to lie in it." Have you asked him if he blames you? What does he say?

If your DH accepted that his brother was being crazy and rude, but still wanted to go to the bar mitzvah because he cares about his nephew, I could see you supporting him in going. But all this talk about how you both wish you weren't married and your DH loves you and your kids less (!!!) is confusing unless DH really does blame you. And if he does and you are not to blame, I don't know how you get past that in your marriage.

[Anonymous]

OP, it is clear to me that your BIL has never liked you. EVER. This is the pimple popping. He has always bad mouthed you and you never realized how bad it has been.

I'm sorry, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the therapy thing. Truthfully I doubt DH will agree so I should just go asap myself. But just to set the record straight (even though I am hurt by him right now), DH was surprised (more than me -- I think I figured it out when it was under a month from the date and we had no invitation) when I was excluded, fought for me to be included (or at least asked), and then said he wasn't going (although then moped/tantrumed until I relented) despite a lot of pressure from MIL/FIL (I don't think BIL cared). He has kind of had this dumped on him too, since he knew his nephew before he ever met me and has built a relationship with his nephew for 13 years. He feels like it is his brothers loss that he never wanted to get to know our girls and he feels like he shouldn't have to "punish" his nephew or himself because his brother is being "weird" (his words). (And yes I nearly screamed when he called this "weird" and "quirky".)

I just don't see how marriages survive this. DH is not going to "choose" me -- no way if it's between his brother, SIL, and niece/nephew who he knew before me with the pressure from his MIL/FIL to make sure him and his brother stay close as his "first family" (his mom/dad's words). He would have resented me for the rest of my life if he missed that stupid bar mitzvah even and I would have never heard the end of it. DH is going to want the status quo but no way am I going to choose that -- twice a year trips to a brother who has now outwardly and openly treated our girls like that? Even calls are going to make me cringe. And MIL/FIL are fine -- I feel like they are pawns here too -- but basically this has made them chose sides and they are not going to support our marriage if it causes any heartache with BIL/DH.

Your BIL sounds like a narcissistic sociopath.

[Anonymous]

This is so messed up OP. Why doesn't your husband stick up for you? You and your children should be his number one priority. He should not go to the bar mitzvah without you. Period. Your husband needs to explain to his family that you are a family unit. They cannot exclude you or your children from family events.