Arranged Marriage?!?

[Anonymous]

Arranged marriages are based on social and financial match not based upon friendship, attraction, love, intimacy or sex so matches in that regard are usually poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indian-Am myself so very familiar with this process. Yes it’s a very reasonable way to meet someone, yes this girls marriage has a 99% chance of working. Yet what no one hits on - most of these marriages never develop the intimacy that regular marriages already have going in. Yes we all know intimacy alone isn’t enough for a marriage - as evidenced by the 50% US divorce rate - and similar values, culture, professional attainment, money views matter greatly. But a marriage where the love is in that - of course we respect each other/love each other bc we’re spouses - kind of polite way just isn’t fun. AT ALL. This is what many Indian Am experienced growing up - marriage as business transaction. In our homes we saw -no holding hands, hugging, real joking around or belly laughs and I can only imagine the true private moments -let’s just say it’s done after 2 kids have arrived. Even Indian Am born and raised here going into this process tend to view marriage as a transaction; if they are in that lucky 0.5% they will have true intimacy + all the business objectives met w 2 drs, million dollar starter homes etc. But 99.5% chance it’ll be a good transaction w no true true love but they’ll stay in bc well what is love anyway/doesn’t exist - guaranteed either her parents or in-laws or both feel this way.

Wow, that is fascinating. When I was growing up I saw a lot of friends in the Indian American community and always wondered if their moms were happy or how they felt about the arrangement.

Pp here - so if someone close to those women asked them if they’re happy it’d be a - shrugged of course why wouldn’t I be happy - kind of response. This isn’t a culture where “true” happiness is a thing. So women esp from India/older think of happiness as I’m taken care of, nice house/things, my DH doesn’t abuse me, what else is there. The ones who are now older (like age 65-70+) who’ve gotten more western in their thinking with 4 decades in America and now many with kids who ARE making themselves happy whether that’s quitting investment banking, not going to med school if they don’t want to or marrying someone they actually love - NOW those moms are seeing what happiness looks like and it’s kind of heartbreaking as they’ll say things that you know they’re realizing they spent their whole lives doing what they were supposed to (and in that gen yes that meant a lot of cooking/cleaning to keep the man’s home bc every $$ had to be saved for their kids’ med school so no extra cash for cleaning ladies for yrs)/what DH wanted and while DH is perfectly nice, they never lived how SHE wanted (much less shared a passionate kiss just because).

For everyone saying American marriages don’t have intimacy etc either - it burns out, I get it. But I think most people when they date/at least first few yrs ARE kissing, hugging, holding hands, laughing together etc., and I do know plenty of couples who are on the same page with each other - you can just tell. I don’t think most people are in complete roommate marriages for the entire marriage.

I’m not saying it to dump on this girls marriage - it’ll work and she knows what she’s getting into. Just that this is a thing where the “process” of getting married can be easy but the actual marriage can be hard - on top of the usual marriage challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indian-Am myself so very familiar with this process. Yes it’s a very reasonable way to meet someone, yes this girls marriage has a 99% chance of working. Yet what no one hits on - most of these marriages never develop the intimacy that regular marriages already have going in. Yes we all know intimacy alone isn’t enough for a marriage - as evidenced by the 50% US divorce rate - and similar values, culture, professional attainment, money views matter greatly. But a marriage where the love is in that - of course we respect each other/love each other bc we’re spouses - kind of polite way just isn’t fun. AT ALL. This is what many Indian Am experienced growing up - marriage as business transaction. In our homes we saw -no holding hands, hugging, real joking around or belly laughs and I can only imagine the true private moments -let’s just say it’s done after 2 kids have arrived. Even Indian Am born and raised here going into this process tend to view marriage as a transaction; if they are in that lucky 0.5% they will have true intimacy + all the business objectives met w 2 drs, million dollar starter homes etc. But 99.5% chance it’ll be a good transaction w no true true love but they’ll stay in bc well what is love anyway/doesn’t exist - guaranteed either her parents or in-laws or both feel this way.

Wow, that is fascinating. When I was growing up I saw a lot of friends in the Indian American community and always wondered if their moms were happy or how they felt about the arrangement.

Pp here - so if someone close to those women asked them if they’re happy it’d be a - shrugged of course why wouldn’t I be happy - kind of response. This isn’t a culture where “true” happiness is a thing. So women esp from India/older think of happiness as I’m taken care of, nice house/things, my DH doesn’t abuse me, what else is there. The ones who are now older (like age 65-70+) who’ve gotten more western in their thinking with 4 decades in America and now many with kids who ARE making themselves happy whether that’s quitting investment banking, not going to med school if they don’t want to or marrying someone they actually love - NOW those moms are seeing what happiness looks like and it’s kind of heartbreaking as they’ll say things that you know they’re realizing they spent their whole lives doing what they were supposed to (and in that gen yes that meant a lot of cooking/cleaning to keep the man’s home bc every $$ had to be saved for their kids’ med school so no extra cash for cleaning ladies for yrs)/what DH wanted and while DH is perfectly nice, they never lived how SHE wanted (much less shared a passionate kiss just because).

For everyone saying American marriages don’t have intimacy etc either - it burns out, I get it. But I think most people when they date/at least first few yrs ARE kissing, hugging, holding hands, laughing together etc., and I do know plenty of couples who are on the same page with each other - you can just tell. I don’t think most people are in complete roommate marriages for the entire marriage.

I’m not saying it to dump on this girls marriage - it’ll work and she knows what she’s getting into. Just that this is a thing where the “process” of getting married can be easy but the actual marriage can be hard - on top of the usual marriage challenges.

Definitely, understand what you are saying. I’m not Indian but also from a culture with more traditional roles and less individualism. It’s kind of hard to say because I see both sides. American individualism is out of control and could use a little tempering.

Re: business-like arrangement, any longterm marriage with kids is going to have a running a small business aspect to it. It’s just that in the Western marriage you add more expectations — sex, emotional intimacy, etc. I must be my spouse’s therapist, friend, lover, and so on. That’s a lot and maybe part of why some marriages crack whereas the really pragmatic kind that we see in our parents’ generation keep chugging along.

[Anonymous]

You are talking about marriages of parents who grew up and got married in India. Family enmeshment was a bigger issue for that generation than arranged marriages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know several couples whose marriages are arranged. I am close enough to some of them to ask nosey questions, and based on that I am convinced that it can work out very nicely if it's done the right way for the right people. There is a whole cultural backdrop to it, and it's not like these people have been paired off randomly. Lots of thought goes into the process, often way more than with the "normal" "love" marriages.

I find it interesting that you think these folks honestly answered your “nosey” questions. I’ve lied anytime anyone has asked an intrusive question about my parents’ marriage or arranged marriages generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are talking about marriages of parents who grew up and got married in India. Family enmeshment was a bigger issue for that generation than arranged marriages.

Wait family enmeshment isn’t a thing anymore? Jealous!!

[Anonymous]

^pp here - I get it. Sometimes American expectations are out of control. But IDK I just don’t understand being in a marriage where we aren’t the best of friends/on the same page; like if that happens a decade down the road ok - but going in that way?! My Indian-Am parents think that’s insane “expectation.” Or even having commonalities beyond ivy degrees or MDs or whatever. Like I don’t care if the guy is a dr if all he wants to do (even when young w no kids) is go to work and come home, if I’m the type who wants to travel, go to concerts etc and oh he is “unhappy” if I go do these things with a female friend. True story of one of my cousins who has the “perfect on paper” dr husband yet they just aren’t a personality match. They would both have been better off w people who somewhat matched their personalities/likes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are talking about marriages of parents who grew up and got married in India. Family enmeshment was a bigger issue for that generation than arranged marriages.

Uh Indian-Am parents here are VERY enmeshed in their kids’ lives even here and 100% expect to be after arranged marriage too. Now some kids here will draw a line BUT in an arranged marriage you don’t know if your intended also wants distance from family or if he 100% expects mama’s involvement (and usually the guys DO want 100% involvement of their fam). And no neither you nor your parents can ask in the transactional process bc future DH and MIL will brand you as “not family oriented” and you aren’t marrying him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indian-Am myself so very familiar with this process. Yes it’s a very reasonable way to meet someone, yes this girls marriage has a 99% chance of working. Yet what no one hits on - most of these marriages never develop the intimacy that regular marriages already have going in. Yes we all know intimacy alone isn’t enough for a marriage - as evidenced by the 50% US divorce rate - and similar values, culture, professional attainment, money views matter greatly. But a marriage where the love is in that - of course we respect each other/love each other bc we’re spouses - kind of polite way just isn’t fun. AT ALL. This is what many Indian Am experienced growing up - marriage as business transaction. In our homes we saw -no holding hands, hugging, real joking around or belly laughs and I can only imagine the true private moments -let’s just say it’s done after 2 kids have arrived. Even Indian Am born and raised here going into this process tend to view marriage as a transaction; if they are in that lucky 0.5% they will have true intimacy + all the business objectives met w 2 drs, million dollar starter homes etc. But 99.5% chance it’ll be a good transaction w no true true love but they’ll stay in bc well what is love anyway/doesn’t exist - guaranteed either her parents or in-laws or both feel this way.

So sorry about your childhood with your parents. It seems like you were very unhappy and think that it is due to your parents being Indian-Americans. Let me assure you, it was just that your parents had a bad and miserable marriage. Most Indian kids think of their childhood as a golden period of bliss and happiness. Yes, there are lots of marriages that are not a hugely romantic matches, and there are lots of happy marriages where PDA does not happen, but the chance they will break up is uncommon. Are there miserable marriages too? Of course, I am sure there are as many unhappy (but not divorcing) marriages in Indian-American families as there are in any other racial group in USA. Mostly, the conservative culture of the small expat community and immigrant community works to contain openly bad behavior but also prevents people from divorcing in unhappy marriages

Thankfully, most people I know are in happy and romantic marriages. Even those that had arranged marriages. (ok - I know 2 couples who should divorce STAT because the husbands are psychos, and 1 kid whose parents are horrible. So sh1t happens). You know, I think there is something to be said about having a marriage where the respect and loyalty happens just because wedding vows are honored. Having high SES, same culture, comingled wealth, education, successful children, family support, societal approval, love of Bollywood etc - go a long way in acting as glue in keeping the marriage together. Most people (50 and below) also want the romance, leisure time and lifestyle of today - that earlier generation did not go for due to a lot of financial and cultural reasons. Now with rising SES, Indian-Americans are more into conspicuous consumption than before. The younger generation is also open to divorce if things don't work out.

I think generally people in arranged marriages also do not have unrealistic expectation of marriage and for most of the couples they may still have middle class morality even if they are UC. Of course, there are all types of people in all types of society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know several couples whose marriages are arranged. I am close enough to some of them to ask nosey questions, and based on that I am convinced that it can work out very nicely if it's done the right way for the right people. There is a whole cultural backdrop to it, and it's not like these people have been paired off randomly. Lots of thought goes into the process, often way more than with the "normal" "love" marriages.

I find it interesting that you think these folks honestly answered your “nosey” questions. I’ve lied anytime anyone has asked an intrusive question about my parents’ marriage or arranged marriages generally.

Indian Am here - 100%. Sorry I’m not honestly answering about arranged marriages or my family’s marriages if asked IRL. I’m giving neutral - oh it works, 50% of love marriages fail blah blah. I’m not saying to you the stuff I’ve said here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indian-Am myself so very familiar with this process. Yes it’s a very reasonable way to meet someone, yes this girls marriage has a 99% chance of working. Yet what no one hits on - most of these marriages never develop the intimacy that regular marriages already have going in. Yes we all know intimacy alone isn’t enough for a marriage - as evidenced by the 50% US divorce rate - and similar values, culture, professional attainment, money views matter greatly. But a marriage where the love is in that - of course we respect each other/love each other bc we’re spouses - kind of polite way just isn’t fun. AT ALL. This is what many Indian Am experienced growing up - marriage as business transaction. In our homes we saw -no holding hands, hugging, real joking around or belly laughs and I can only imagine the true private moments -let’s just say it’s done after 2 kids have arrived. Even Indian Am born and raised here going into this process tend to view marriage as a transaction; if they are in that lucky 0.5% they will have true intimacy + all the business objectives met w 2 drs, million dollar starter homes etc. But 99.5% chance it’ll be a good transaction w no true true love but they’ll stay in bc well what is love anyway/doesn’t exist - guaranteed either her parents or in-laws or both feel this way.

So sorry about your childhood with your parents. It seems like you were very unhappy and think that it is due to your parents being Indian-Americans. Let me assure you, it was just that your parents had a bad and miserable marriage. Most Indian kids think of their childhood as a golden period of bliss and happiness. Yes, there are lots of marriages that are not a hugely romantic matches, and there are lots of happy marriages where PDA does not happen, but the chance they will break up is uncommon. Are there miserable marriages too? Of course, I am sure there are as many unhappy (but not divorcing) marriages in Indian-American families as there are in any other racial group in USA. Mostly, the conservative culture of the small expat community and immigrant community works to contain openly bad behavior but also prevents people from divorcing in unhappy marriages

Thankfully, most people I know are in happy and romantic marriages. Even those that had arranged marriages. (ok - I know 2 couples who should divorce STAT because the husbands are psychos, and 1 kid whose parents are horrible. So sh1t happens). You know, I think there is something to be said about having a marriage where the respect and loyalty happens just because wedding vows are honored. Having high SES, same culture, comingled wealth, education, successful children, family support, societal approval, love of Bollywood etc - go a long way in acting as glue in keeping the marriage together. Most people (50 and below) also want the romance, leisure time and lifestyle of today - that earlier generation did not go for due to a lot of financial and cultural reasons. Now with rising SES, Indian-Americans are more into conspicuous consumption than before. The younger generation is also open to divorce if things don't work out.

I think generally people in arranged marriages also do not have unrealistic expectation of marriage and for most of the couples they may still have middle class morality even if they are UC. Of course, there are all types of people in all types of society.

IDK what PP is saying is true in LOTS of Indian marriages. We just don’t say it out loud. I do agree the childhoods are very good in large part due to huge stability so yeah it’s great for kids. I’m just talking about the marriage relationship. IDK how many empty nesters you know but the cracks emerge once the kids leave - and no that doesn’t mean they’d ever divorce - but that’s when the woman realizes how it really is (the men are oblivious as long as there are hot rotis). Sure in some families it won’t matter bc the kids stay close, parents busy themselves with grandkids etc. But this is America, more and more Indian Am kids move off to Manhattan or someplace where families can’t follow; many marry non Indians so mom and dad living with or stopping by 4 times/wk is a no go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are talking about marriages of parents who grew up and got married in India. Family enmeshment was a bigger issue for that generation than arranged marriages.

Uh Indian-Am parents here are VERY enmeshed in their kids’ lives even here and 100% expect to be after arranged marriage too. Now some kids here will draw a line BUT in an arranged marriage you don’t know if your intended also wants distance from family or if he 100% expects mama’s involvement (and usually the guys DO want 100% involvement of their fam). And no neither you nor your parents can ask in the transactional process bc future DH and MIL will brand you as “not family oriented” and you aren’t marrying him.

Sweetie, you can certainly ask for all of that before marriage and reject the marriage proposal. That's how the matchmaking works.
Nowadays, most Indian-American women are financially emancipated and very well educated. They can choose who they want to marry. Go to grad school or med/law school and you can find a spouse there

The problem is that you want an Indian cardiologist husband from the arranged marriage and then expect it to turn into a DCUM White marriage where family is not important and MIL is sidelined. You should go and marry in other racial groups, if they will have you. I am sure they have orphans in their community. No Indian-American guy with a birth family will want you because you sound pretty uncultured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are talking about marriages of parents who grew up and got married in India. Family enmeshment was a bigger issue for that generation than arranged marriages.

Uh Indian-Am parents here are VERY enmeshed in their kids’ lives even here and 100% expect to be after arranged marriage too. Now some kids here will draw a line BUT in an arranged marriage you don’t know if your intended also wants distance from family or if he 100% expects mama’s involvement (and usually the guys DO want 100% involvement of their fam). And no neither you nor your parents can ask in the transactional process bc future DH and MIL will brand you as “not family oriented” and you aren’t marrying him.

+1

Indian-Am woman here — this was one of the main reasons I never went down the arranged marriage path (that and I didn’t really want to get married for the sake of getting married). This was also the biggest source of conflict between my brother and his wife, who do have a successful arranged marriage. Luckily my mom is mostly sane and stepped out of the drama and forced my father to as well.

Also, for all of those who are saying it’s up to the “boy” and “girl” and you can say no at any point are ignoring/not understanding the pressure that is put on the prospective bride and groom, as well as the lies parents and aunties and uncles tell about the matches. My father at one point claimed I cooked Indian food very well (I did, and still do, NOT). Some parents told my parents their son was vegetarian — he was not, but didn’t want to tell his mom because she’d be heartbroken. There was some guy my father tried to set me up with who was completely unattractive to me on several levels. He told me that it wasn’t a big deal because he was a pharmacist and would always have a job. Luckily my sane mom told him to drop it.

That being said, I think it works for people who go into it with their eyes open and can, with their spouse, draw boundaries around parental involvement.

What I do find odd about OP’s story is that the couple never met in person — meeting a few times at least is typical in this country and in this day and age, in my experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are talking about marriages of parents who grew up and got married in India. Family enmeshment was a bigger issue for that generation than arranged marriages.

Uh Indian-Am parents here are VERY enmeshed in their kids’ lives even here and 100% expect to be after arranged marriage too. Now some kids here will draw a line BUT in an arranged marriage you don’t know if your intended also wants distance from family or if he 100% expects mama’s involvement (and usually the guys DO want 100% involvement of their fam). And no neither you nor your parents can ask in the transactional process bc future DH and MIL will brand you as “not family oriented” and you aren’t marrying him.

Sweetie, you can certainly ask for all of that before marriage and reject the marriage proposal. That's how the matchmaking works.
Nowadays, most Indian-American women are financially emancipated and very well educated. They can choose who they want to marry. Go to grad school or med/law school and you can find a spouse there

The problem is that you want an Indian cardiologist husband from the arranged marriage and then expect it to turn into a DCUM White marriage where family is not important and MIL is sidelined. You should go and marry in other racial groups, if they will have you. I am sure they have orphans in their community. No Indian-American guy with a birth family will want you because you sound pretty uncultured.

Huh?! Defensive much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are talking about marriages of parents who grew up and got married in India. Family enmeshment was a bigger issue for that generation than arranged marriages.

Uh Indian-Am parents here are VERY enmeshed in their kids’ lives even here and 100% expect to be after arranged marriage too. Now some kids here will draw a line BUT in an arranged marriage you don’t know if your intended also wants distance from family or if he 100% expects mama’s involvement (and usually the guys DO want 100% involvement of their fam). And no neither you nor your parents can ask in the transactional process bc future DH and MIL will brand you as “not family oriented” and you aren’t marrying him.

Sweetie, you can certainly ask for all of that before marriage and reject the marriage proposal. That's how the matchmaking works.
Nowadays, most Indian-American women are financially emancipated and very well educated. They can choose who they want to marry. Go to grad school or med/law school and you can find a spouse there

The problem is that you want an Indian cardiologist husband from the arranged marriage and then expect it to turn into a DCUM White marriage where family is not important and MIL is sidelined. You should go and marry in other racial groups, if they will have you. I am sure they have orphans in their community. No Indian-American guy with a birth family will want you because you sound pretty uncultured.

Lol. Defensive much??