Fear of SA with men in the family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are right to be concerned.
I wouldn’t want any man touching my child in anyway.

What? Is the father not supposed to go near the child because you have hang-ups? This is a grandparent we are talking about, not some rando. The great majority of men are amazing. I can understand not wanting you older child to have a sleepover with males due to your experience, but no contact with males? That's crazy.

Dads are okayish, but any other male (grandparent, uncle, brother, cousin), is a no. Them being family doesn’t really change anything. Being amazing doesn’t stop the fact that touch to men can mean many different things.

I truly can't imagine feeling this way. I was very close with all members of my family- male and female, and grew up to trust that there were more safe people in the world than not.

Same. How is OP’s child supposed to develop healthy relationships with males?

By not getting molested, is the idea, I suppose. This behavior would read groomer if it were a neighbor or something, but it's normal innocent grandparent behavior. And yet lots of people are molested by grandparents. So. I don't know. OP comes off both entirely reasonable and insane to me!

TBH that's how I feel about myself! Like I'm insane but also I know the statistics and I know it's rarely the creepy man in the ice cream truck

But if you know the statistics, you should also know it’s more common for the abuser to be mom’s boyfriend or the child’s step dad, or a male relative by marriage (not by birth), like an uncle who married in. Or someone like a babysitter or a male relative of said babysitter. I’m not saying it’s never grandpa or whatever. But if your husband and your SIL vouch for him and don’t think he’s creepy, isn’t that a good thing?

NP - You are wrong to leave out grandparents, especially granddads, as a common SA perpetrator. I worked in child welfare for 15 years; yes, mom's boyfriend or child's stepdad ARE the #1 most common relationship to kids SA'd. But granddads are absolutely also a common relationship to the SA'd child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are right to be concerned.
I wouldn’t want any man touching my child in anyway.

I agree. The way this poster described the physical interaction with the grandchild? Creepy.

Because she thinks any touch is creepy. OP needs therapy.

As someone who worked in child welfare for 15 years, and you are irresponsible and wrong for trying to reduce OP's reaction to the very specific forms of touch she's observed her father in law touching her child down to simply "OP thinks any touch is creepy and needs therapy." And your tone sounds like you're more interested in shaming OP than you are in giving anyone any helpful replies here.

OP first of all, kudos for how thoughtful you are about this and how desperately you're trying to balance your possible and understandable trauma responses with not wanting to harm your child or unfairly judge your father in law. And it's important to point out that there is a very possible middle ground to your situation that is worth you checking out. Let me also say now that hopefully you do have a therapist you can go to, because even figuring this out is very stressful and sounds triggering for you. So hopefully any advice you receive in this discussion that you want to follow, you have a professional you trust that you can run it by.

The main thing is to know your concerns are totally understandable and NOT an over-reaction. The question is what you do with those concerns and how you process them, and what you do. First, it is ok to not leave your child with them to babysit. Some here have sounded like it's mandatory or obvious that you will need them to babysit your child. Unless you have a financial situation that makes them as childcare someday required, you can always choose not to leave her with them without you there. Second, where is your husband on all of this? He knows about your past victimization, and maybe working with a therapist or a counselor, you can tell your DH how you feel, and what specific actions of your FIL make you the most uneasy. Do you think your DH would be willing to talk to his dad, or maybe to both his dad and mom to make it less specifically about his dad, and explain that no one is accusing him/them of any bad intentions or bad actions, and also that you have a heightened sensitivity to certain kinds of ways people physically handle children and it's going to be necessary to be extra thoughtful and change how they physically handle the baby/toddler. It will likely be a very awkward, uncomfortable conversation, but if he explains that consciously modifying how they physically interact with the baby out of love and support for ALL of you (you, your DH and your child) is really important right now.

And third, as your child gets older and talks more, communicates more, and understands what it means to talk about touch that's ok and touch that isn't, and talk about how she does NOT have to hug people or sit on people's laps if those people make her uncomfortable, and to tell her repeatedly that if anything bad happens she should absolutely tell you both, even if someone makes her promise not to, and that you'll always love her no matter what. Telling her all this as it becomes developmentally appropriate will help as she gets older to understand her own boundaries and communicate with you if she feels they're being crossed or gotten too close to.

OP your concerns are understandable and valid in that you have every right to be very vigilant about how your small child is held and touched, and you also are wonderful for being so conscious that what you survived and your caution is super triggered by touch like this, for good reason, and also you are conscious of wanting not to over-react or hurt your daughter and your relationships with your in-laws unnecessarily. Maybe talk to a counselor or therapist about this approach of having your husband talk to his parents and what is most helpful to say and most likely to be successful.

[Anonymous]

This is so sad. My family is full of grandpas, uncles, nephews, brothers, dads, etc. They are all perfectly safe people. Toddlers crawl into their laps to have stories read to them. They ask to be picked up if they're sad or hurt (or can't see).

And, all the men/boys in the family respect boundaries. My 5 yr old nephew even has learned no means no, and if someone says they don't want a hug, he has to un-hug them.

OP, you are going to give your daughter a complex. Maybe increase your therapy regimen.

[Anonymous]

This is horrible. Your poor child. Please get a new therapist that can help you to not pass on your fear of men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are right to be concerned.
I wouldn’t want any man touching my child in anyway.

I agree. The way this poster described the physical interaction with the grandchild? Creepy.

Because she thinks any touch is creepy. OP needs therapy.

As someone who worked in child welfare for 15 years, and you are irresponsible and wrong for trying to reduce OP's reaction to the very specific forms of touch she's observed her father in law touching her child down to simply "OP thinks any touch is creepy and needs therapy." And your tone sounds like you're more interested in shaming OP than you are in giving anyone any helpful replies here.

OP first of all, kudos for how thoughtful you are about this and how desperately you're trying to balance your possible and understandable trauma responses with not wanting to harm your child or unfairly judge your father in law. And it's important to point out that there is a very possible middle ground to your situation that is worth you checking out. Let me also say now that hopefully you do have a therapist you can go to, because even figuring this out is very stressful and sounds triggering for you. So hopefully any advice you receive in this discussion that you want to follow, you have a professional you trust that you can run it by.

The main thing is to know your concerns are totally understandable and NOT an over-reaction. The question is what you do with those concerns and how you process them, and what you do. First, it is ok to not leave your child with them to babysit. Some here have sounded like it's mandatory or obvious that you will need them to babysit your child. Unless you have a financial situation that makes them as childcare someday required, you can always choose not to leave her with them without you there. Second, where is your husband on all of this? He knows about your past victimization, and maybe working with a therapist or a counselor, you can tell your DH how you feel, and what specific actions of your FIL make you the most uneasy. Do you think your DH would be willing to talk to his dad, or maybe to both his dad and mom to make it less specifically about his dad, and explain that no one is accusing him/them of any bad intentions or bad actions, and also that you have a heightened sensitivity to certain kinds of ways people physically handle children and it's going to be necessary to be extra thoughtful and change how they physically handle the baby/toddler. It will likely be a very awkward, uncomfortable conversation, but if he explains that consciously modifying how they physically interact with the baby out of love and support for ALL of you (you, your DH and your child) is really important right now.

And third, as your child gets older and talks more, communicates more, and understands what it means to talk about touch that's ok and touch that isn't, and talk about how she does NOT have to hug people or sit on people's laps if those people make her uncomfortable, and to tell her repeatedly that if anything bad happens she should absolutely tell you both, even if someone makes her promise not to, and that you'll always love her no matter what. Telling her all this as it becomes developmentally appropriate will help as she gets older to understand her own boundaries and communicate with you if she feels they're being crossed or gotten too close to.

OP your concerns are understandable and valid in that you have every right to be very vigilant about how your small child is held and touched, and you also are wonderful for being so conscious that what you survived and your caution is super triggered by touch like this, for good reason, and also you are conscious of wanting not to over-react or hurt your daughter and your relationships with your in-laws unnecessarily. Maybe talk to a counselor or therapist about this approach of having your husband talk to his parents and what is most helpful to say and most likely to be successful.

I’m not in your shoes, OP, but this seems like solid, reasonable advice to me.

I also wanted to add that I had a lot of anxiety (my own) about leaving my kids with family members or babysitters when they were young. So you know what, I almost never did it, and my almost adult kids have great and loving relationships with extended family members and the world at large. In my case, Eventually I grew to trust one older woman, and she almost exclusively was who I turned to on the occasion I needed a babysitter, even over family and grandparents. So you don’t “need” to leave your baby alone with FIL if he is setting off alarms for you, whether due to his actions or your history.

[Anonymous]

This is a you problem. Seek therapy asap

[Anonymous]

Thank you all. I am in therapy and discussing this with my therapist and psychiatrist to find ways to manage. I don't have any concern about her dad or other close family friends that are male or my sister in laws husband. It's not every male. The example I gave with our friend playing doctor had more to do with the game doctor than him. And it was fleeting. A few minutes of being uncomfortable in my skin and then I was over it. She regularly sees men in our friend group and has no issues playing and interacting with them.

This experience with her grandfather is and was unexpected but not fleeting. I also recognize I have no idea what is normal or not between a grandparent and grandchildren. The constant touching ( with me and her dad in the room) is unsettling for me.

This am he came out of his room with his shirt off and picked her up- she had just eaten and only had a diaper on. We took off her Christmas dress to eat. He picked her up and held her and put his forehead on hers and it just looked and felt so weird to me. Mind you I have no problem with my husband doing skin to skin since she was born and she still likes it when shes sick.

I'm working through my feelings and staying vigilant.

To the poster who unfortunately had the experience come true - what if any behaviors did you notice?

[Anonymous]

Hi OP - Your feelings are valid and also someday (not too far off) you will have to teach your daughter that if anything feels “off” to her about an interaction with someone, she needs to listen to it and tell - so that starts with modeling it yourself. If this was your daughter feeling weird about grandpa, would you honor her feelings and not dismiss them?

I think three things are really important for getting ahead of SA risk as a parent.

1. You and your husband need to start establishing your family policies on this now. For example, one of ours is if our child sleeps in a bed away from home, a parent is there with them. No sleepovers. No overnight trips. No grandparent sleepovers. So we may vacation with another family or stay at ILs, but child sleeps with me. You can let these evolve as child grows, but you have to have a firm line. That’s so nice of you to invite X, but our family policy is Y. End of story. Also please don’t forget that child on child abuse occurs too - we also have policies around dropoff play dates, doors closed during play, tents in rooms, or one parent eyes on during big gatherings or parties, etc too.

2. You start really, really young talking about who can touch you and where. Not a big talk - just often. In the bath pointing out body parts. While putting pajamas on. After a doctor visit - the doctor can look at your body because mommy was there. Etc. You will be amazed how often and well young children report - and prevent - abuse if it’s this normalized for them and they know you are safe to tell. Children need really specific guidance on ok/not ok, what actions to take - and also the courage to honor any feeling that makes you feel weird or upset in your body.

3. You have to get comfortable with being “that” parent. You know the one who is holding out on dropoff playdates longer than other families. Doesn’t have male babysitters - family or not. (this is statistics not bias) Asks the school how they background check employees and what their policies are if abuse is reported. I even model consent with other kids and parents at the park when it’s just play - “X is trying to pick you up. Remember you can say no with your body if you don’t want to be picked up.”

I’m sure some on this chain will say this is ridiculous or overkill, but I consider trying to get my daughter to adulthood with the least risk of SA possible one of my most important jobs as a parent. Family can resent me. She can resent me and make different choices when she’s older. But I feel like if I’ve over corrected here and it costs her something like independence, she can adapt as an adult - but what I’ll never be able to fix retroactively is making a decision under social pressure that put her at risk of SA.

[Anonymous]

All of what you described is completely normal interaction between a grandfather and a 15 month old. By all means, you’re within your rights never to let him touch her if you want. Therapy will be a more effective way of managing your anxieties, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of what you described is completely normal interaction between a grandfather and a 15 month old. By all means, you’re within your rights never to let him touch her if you want. Therapy will be a more effective way of managing your anxieties, however.

+1. The OP's feelings are understandable given her history, but also wildly inappropriate for the circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are right to be concerned.
I wouldn’t want any man touching my child in anyway.

I agree. The way this poster described the physical interaction with the grandchild? Creepy.

Because she thinks any touch is creepy. OP needs therapy.

As someone who worked in child welfare for 15 years, and you are irresponsible and wrong for trying to reduce OP's reaction to the very specific forms of touch she's observed her father in law touching her child down to simply "OP thinks any touch is creepy and needs therapy." And your tone sounds like you're more interested in shaming OP than you are in giving anyone any helpful replies here.

OP first of all, kudos for how thoughtful you are about this and how desperately you're trying to balance your possible and understandable trauma responses with not wanting to harm your child or unfairly judge your father in law. And it's important to point out that there is a very possible middle ground to your situation that is worth you checking out. Let me also say now that hopefully you do have a therapist you can go to, because even figuring this out is very stressful and sounds triggering for you. So hopefully any advice you receive in this discussion that you want to follow, you have a professional you trust that you can run it by.

The main thing is to know your concerns are totally understandable and NOT an over-reaction. The question is what you do with those concerns and how you process them, and what you do. First, it is ok to not leave your child with them to babysit. Some here have sounded like it's mandatory or obvious that you will need them to babysit your child. Unless you have a financial situation that makes them as childcare someday required, you can always choose not to leave her with them without you there. Second, where is your husband on all of this? He knows about your past victimization, and maybe working with a therapist or a counselor, you can tell your DH how you feel, and what specific actions of your FIL make you the most uneasy. Do you think your DH would be willing to talk to his dad, or maybe to both his dad and mom to make it less specifically about his dad, and explain that no one is accusing him/them of any bad intentions or bad actions, and also that you have a heightened sensitivity to certain kinds of ways people physically handle children and it's going to be necessary to be extra thoughtful and change how they physically handle the baby/toddler. It will likely be a very awkward, uncomfortable conversation, but if he explains that consciously modifying how they physically interact with the baby out of love and support for ALL of you (you, your DH and your child) is really important right now.

And third, as your child gets older and talks more, communicates more, and understands what it means to talk about touch that's ok and touch that isn't, and talk about how she does NOT have to hug people or sit on people's laps if those people make her uncomfortable, and to tell her repeatedly that if anything bad happens she should absolutely tell you both, even if someone makes her promise not to, and that you'll always love her no matter what. Telling her all this as it becomes developmentally appropriate will help as she gets older to understand her own boundaries and communicate with you if she feels they're being crossed or gotten too close to.

OP your concerns are understandable and valid in that you have every right to be very vigilant about how your small child is held and touched, and you also are wonderful for being so conscious that what you survived and your caution is super triggered by touch like this, for good reason, and also you are conscious of wanting not to over-react or hurt your daughter and your relationships with your in-laws unnecessarily. Maybe talk to a counselor or therapist about this approach of having your husband talk to his parents and what is most helpful to say and most likely to be successful.

Odd take.

[Anonymous]

I feel like other posters are acknowledging that OP has these feelings and deals with them for other adult males but not grandfather. Just stay vigilant. Also shirt off? I thought that was a big no from all the other posts about young boys having shirts off in house but girls cant?
If its constant touching plus taking her from where she is happy- that triggers me as well, and I am not an abuse survivor. Any chance he is manipulative?

The best thing you can do is encourage all the normal things to avoid abuse. Dont do sleepovers. No closed door play. No doctor play between adults and children. Children can be the doctor. All in an open space with supervision. If they want to play doctor they can also do vet instead on stuffed animals. No requirement for affection. No secrets. No child with an adult under a blanket. Dont allow manipulaiton tactics to encourage separation from mom or dad like candy, toys, etc. especially if the kid is content. If granddad wants to play he can interact while shes on moms lap. Its a red flag to me if he is conditioning her to separate when she is happy and content especially if he gets whiny or pouty with facial expressions. That's early tactics.

And if granddad gets upset, he can be upset. His actions are normalizing those types of behaviors even if he is not an abuser himself.

[Anonymous]

OP this is such a sad thread. I wish you continued healing and all the best for your family, nuclear and extended.

It is such a tangible reminder that SA not only scars and blights the victim, it carries over to the victim's spouse, descendants, in-laws, cousins, nieces and nephews. One abuser harms dozens if not hundreds of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you all. I am in therapy and discussing this with my therapist and psychiatrist to find ways to manage. I don't have any concern about her dad or other close family friends that are male or my sister in laws husband. It's not every male. The example I gave with our friend playing doctor had more to do with the game doctor than him. And it was fleeting. A few minutes of being uncomfortable in my skin and then I was over it. She regularly sees men in our friend group and has no issues playing and interacting with them.

This experience with her grandfather is and was unexpected but not fleeting. I also recognize I have no idea what is normal or not between a grandparent and grandchildren. The constant touching ( with me and her dad in the room) is unsettling for me.

This am he came out of his room with his shirt off and picked her up- she had just eaten and only had a diaper on. We took off her Christmas dress to eat. He picked her up and held her and put his forehead on hers and it just looked and felt so weird to me. Mind you I have no problem with my husband doing skin to skin since she was born and she still likes it when shes sick.

I'm working through my feelings and staying vigilant.

To the poster who unfortunately had the experience come true - what if any behaviors did you notice?

She only had a diaper on? As in otherwise naked? Maybe you will feel more comfortable if you keep clothes on her.

[Anonymous]

Why did you have children, OP?

You don't sound mentally fit for it.

What kind of childhood will she have with you being hysterical all the time.

Many marriages end in divorce. How will you cope with that? Your child will be gone half the time.