What’s the end game plan for a cheating husband?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it's an exit affair and he wants out of the marriage. Google it, it's a thing.

Not as typical for men, but very common for married women in affairs. 65% unhappily married women in affairs looking for it as an exit, compared to only 20% of men, and only 2% actually marry the AP.

+1.

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but seriously how is this even a question. Most men have a strong desire to have sex.

Sometimes they just want to be with variety of women.
Sometimes they want to be with a woman who is hotter/younger than their wife
Sometimes they want to feel wanted/desired
Sometimes they have a sex addiction
Sometimes they are looking for different/wilder/kinkier sex than they have at home
Sometimes they enjoy the thrill of getting one over their wife
Sometimes they are approached or see an opportunity and they think that they won't get caught so it will be OK

Most of the time, they are cheating to get it in because they can, not some grand scheme to eventually divorce and marry the AP.

You forgot: Sometimes they hate women and enjoy the thrill of duping a woman into thinking he cares so that she will relent and have sex with him with the belief they have a sincere relationship, aka rape by fraud.

That is not rape. That happens in real life every day in normal boyfriend-girlfriend relationships. If the sex was consensual, and often times these women--particularly the Ashley Madison ones--advertise they are looking for a sexual partner. If he leads her on, often she is leading him on by claiming she is just looking for a no strings arrangement and then changing the script the longer she screws him.

Men and women lie and lead one another on all of the time, single or not. How many single women dating single men do you know stayed in a relationship thinking it was going to go to the alter and he kept moving the goal posts?

If the guy lied and said he was never married, even that is not rape. It was just a lie. She still consented to having sex.

This is why we teach our daughters to not sleep with married men, to not sleep with someone until you know someone very well, etc.

Yes there are married men AND women that are in it for the thrill of getting another person to say "I love you" and get a masochistic thrill from wielding that power, a huge ego boost and they will say it back to keep the sex coming.

It is well known that a man rarely leaves his wife for an affair partner. Anyone getting into a relationship with a married man knows that, they just think they are different.

+_1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is most married men cannot find enough married women to cheat with.

I'd you don't want to have sex, divorce.

If all you care about is sex, stay single and make enough money to buy it as often as you'd like. Marriage doesn't exist to give men unfettered access to sex.

Exactly, best post on here. If a man values sex above his kids and relationship then yes those kinds should stay single. Sex is only one small aspect in a marriage. Many things need to work in a marriage, and sex is only one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it's an exit affair and he wants out of the marriage. Google it, it's a thing.

Not as typical for men, but very common for married women in affairs. 65% unhappily married women in affairs looking for it as an exit, compared to only 20% of men, and only 2% actually marry the AP.

+1.

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but seriously how is this even a question. Most men have a strong desire to have sex.

Sometimes they just want to be with variety of women.
Sometimes they want to be with a woman who is hotter/younger than their wife
Sometimes they want to feel wanted/desired
Sometimes they have a sex addiction
Sometimes they are looking for different/wilder/kinkier sex than they have at home
Sometimes they enjoy the thrill of getting one over their wife
Sometimes they are approached or see an opportunity and they think that they won't get caught so it will be OK

Most of the time, they are cheating to get it in because they can, not some grand scheme to eventually divorce and marry the AP.

You forgot: Sometimes they hate women and enjoy the thrill of duping a woman into thinking he cares so that she will relent and have sex with him with the belief they have a sincere relationship, aka rape by fraud.

That is not rape. That happens in real life every day in normal boyfriend-girlfriend relationships. If the sex was consensual, and often times these women--particularly the Ashley Madison ones--advertise they are looking for a sexual partner. If he leads her on, often she is leading him on by claiming she is just looking for a no strings arrangement and then changing the script the longer she screws him.

Men and women lie and lead one another on all of the time, single or not. How many single women dating single men do you know stayed in a relationship thinking it was going to go to the alter and he kept moving the goal posts?

If the guy lied and said he was never married, even that is not rape. It was just a lie. She still consented to having sex.

This is why we teach our daughters to not sleep with married men, to not sleep with someone until you know someone very well, etc.

Yes there are married men AND women that are in it for the thrill of getting another person to say "I love you" and get a masochistic thrill from wielding that power, a huge ego boost and they will say it back to keep the sex coming.

It is well known that a man rarely leaves his wife for an affair partner. Anyone getting into a relationship with a married man knows that, they just think they are different.

+_1

Yes. Some mommies and daddies didn't teach this or their kids decided not to listen or followed their bad example. In a healthy parent-child relationship, adultery and sleeping with someone else spouse would be taught to be morally wrong and something you should never do.

And, here they are crying rape when he won't leave his wife like he promised. Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish I wasn’t straight. Hearing the way some men think about a woman’s body turns my stomach.

If I could change anything about my life, I’d be a lesbian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whyyyyyy do people defend cheating???

It seems like it’s so obvious that it hurts people but people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify it. He started it by being mean! I have sexual needs that weren’t being met! It’s okay because my spouse never found out!

Even if somebody is inclined to empathize with cheaters, how is there no consensus that cheating hurts people, it’s wrong to hurt people, so cheating is wrong?

I swear some of these people saying that cheating isn’t a big deal would also get up in arms about backing out of a social engagement or forgetting to send a written thank you card.

This analogy is spot on. We all feel hurt when those things (cheating or other ppl backing out social engagements or forgetting to send a thank you card) happen to us, yet we all make excuses for ourselves and expect to be forgiven when we do those things that hurt others. It's like all my single friends on dating apps have ghosted and been ghosted. Of course they feel upset when they are ghosted, but it doesn't stop them from ghosting people they are not interested in, and they feel justified to do so. It's just part of life.

Ultimately it depends on who has more opportunity to do those kinds of hurtful things. Like a hot girl on dating apps is much more likely to ghost others than being ghosted herself. Or a successful and attractive middle age man has more resource (money, social status, time away from home) to cheat than a SAHM. But let's admit it, we (regardless of gender) would all find it hard to resist the temptation if given the right opportunity. Men simply have more opportunities to cheat; that's it.[/b]
[b]
FWIW I'm a woman who have never cheated in 10 years of my marriage, and have not been cheated on to my best knowledge. But if it had happened I would just think of it as a matter of which of us was presented the opportunity first. Neither of us actively sought out cheating. But I don't pretend that I have the morality to turn down a (hypothetically) opportunity of having some good NSA sex with a very hot guy that my husband would never find out.

AHHH...NO. As a highly attractive woman, I have been hit on and propositioned my entire life. At the Office, at the gym, on the sidelines of a kids' soccer game. I have had every opportunity out there and I have never even kissed another man in the 26 years I have been with my husband. I also was hit on when I was a single woman by very successful and handsome married men, and I thought they were scum. I always thought 'how the hell could they do this to their wife? their kids?'. SO, some of us have morality and integrity and can have a million opportunities. Even if some divine power told me that I would never get caught, the guilt alone would eat me alive.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

lol all men say that physical touch is their love language. And yet their wives complain that they can't hug their husbands without being groped and begged for sex. Touch doesn't mean sex.

If I hugged my partner and they groped and begged for sex, I would feel bad for having let them get to that point.

Even if you were having sex regularly? There are women who literally cannot sit next to their husbands without being assaulted.

True! My husband grabs my ass and gets a hard on any time I’m near. If I walk by in yoga pants or I have bare legs, etc. We have been married 23 years. He gets a hard on if the wind blows. If I’m in the shower there is head poking around the curtain.

This is my point. So many men say "touch is my love language", and they mean only sexual touch. Which means that their partners cannot hug them, cuddle with them, or even touch their arm as they walk by. How do you think that would make a woman feel?

Desired?

It would make her feel objectified and like her body isn't her own. A woman doesn't want her entire existence to be like walking alone through a crowded market in Cairo. It's exhausting and dehumanizing.

It's also pretty lonely to feel like you can't touch your husband's knee without him trying to pull your pants down.

Ridiculous exaggeration. Come on.[/quote

***NO, it’s unfortunately true. My husband is one of these types. I have told him and he just refuses to change as it’s an abusive control method for him.
It’s sad and lonely when you can’t have any loving contact with your husband.t

There a mom group on Reddit full of women with these exact stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was profoundly lonely in my marriage and my wife wouldn't meet me anywhere near the middle. Another man whose love language is physical touch which of course means sexual touch. Unless you have experienced loneliness and the despair it causes, it's hard to reconcile how someone would risk it all to feel connected again

Then divorce.
If you have kids, not divorcing if this is such a big issue for you, is teaching your children that their needs don’t matter, sets them up for a sad life.
Teach your kids to be honorable and divorce rather than cheat.

As a women, I had a long term partner who rejected me sexually. It was awful. I REFUSED to marry him. I loved his parents and loved him but walked away.
If I had married him, I would have been suicidal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

lol all men say that physical touch is their love language. And yet their wives complain that they can't hug their husbands without being groped and begged for sex. Touch doesn't mean sex.

If I hugged my partner and they groped and begged for sex, I would feel bad for having let them get to that point.

Even if you were having sex regularly? There are women who literally cannot sit next to their husbands without being assaulted.

True! My husband grabs my ass and gets a hard on any time I’m near. If I walk by in yoga pants or I have bare legs, etc. We have been married 23 years. He gets a hard on if the wind blows. If I’m in the shower there is head poking around the curtain.

This is my point. So many men say "touch is my love language", and they mean only sexual touch. Which means that their partners cannot hug them, cuddle with them, or even touch their arm as they walk by. How do you think that would make a woman feel?

Desired?

It would make her feel objectified and like her body isn't her own. A woman doesn't want her entire existence to be like walking alone through a crowded market in Cairo. It's exhausting and dehumanizing.

+1000000
I love touching and being affectionate.
I used to love sex with my husband multiple times a day.
His entitled attitude that he was the husband and I had no right to say No even concerning my own body——ruined my desire for him.
His entitled attitude bled into other areas and he raged at me and then escalated into physical abuse.
He’s been in solo therapy for a few years now.
Yeah, all “MY fault” for his affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it's an exit affair and he wants out of the marriage. Google it, it's a thing.

Not as typical for men, but very common for married women in affairs. 65% unhappily married women in affairs looking for it as an exit, compared to only 20% of men, and only 2% actually marry the AP.

+1.

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but seriously how is this even a question. Most men have a strong desire to have sex.

Sometimes they just want to be with variety of women.
Sometimes they want to be with a woman who is hotter/younger than their wife
Sometimes they want to feel wanted/desired
Sometimes they have a sex addiction
Sometimes they are looking for different/wilder/kinkier sex than they have at home
Sometimes they enjoy the thrill of getting one over their wife
Sometimes they are approached or see an opportunity and they think that they won't get caught so it will be OK

Most of the time, they are cheating to get it in because they can, not some grand scheme to eventually divorce and marry the AP.

You forgot: Sometimes they hate women and enjoy the thrill of duping a woman into thinking he cares so that she will relent and have sex with him with the belief they have a sincere relationship, aka rape by fraud.

First, this is not rape by fraud. Sheesh. Don't water down the trauma of rape.

Second, this is not at all a common reason for men to have affairs. Maybe this happened to you, but then I wonder why you married a sociopath.

She's the OW that thought the guy was going to leave for her, not the wife. She is conflating having consensual sex with him and believing his lies as rape, instead of what it really was: her stupidity for getting involved with a married man in the first place.

Incorrect. It is an acknowledgment of how men in a number of these DCUM cheating threads describe how dumb their APs are — people they have ongoing affairs with, not just hook ups — to believe that there’s something more. The men take advantage of that dumbness to get what they want and are laughing at and disparaging the OW behind her back and here on DCUM. That nuance of enjoying duping the AP certainly seems to be an additional reason for why men — at least on DCUM it seems — like to cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was profoundly lonely in my marriage and my wife wouldn't meet me anywhere near the middle. Another man whose love language is physical touch which of course means sexual touch. Unless you have experienced loneliness and the despair it causes, it's hard to reconcile how someone would risk it all to feel connected again

Then divorce.
If you have kids, not divorcing if this is such a big issue for you, is teaching your children that their needs don’t matter, sets them up for a sad life.
Teach your kids to be honorable and divorce rather than cheat.

As a women, I had a long term partner who rejected me sexually. It was awful. I REFUSED to marry him. I loved his parents and loved him but walked away.
If I had married him, I would have been suicidal.

You are comparing your experience of not marrying someone to the wreck of divorcing with kids?

It's far more noble for parents to find accommodation in sleeping with other people and keeping the family and finances intact than it is to throw away the kids stability so you can sleep with someone else "ethically"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it's an exit affair and he wants out of the marriage. Google it, it's a thing.

Not as typical for men, but very common for married women in affairs. 65% unhappily married women in affairs looking for it as an exit, compared to only 20% of men, and only 2% actually marry the AP.

+1.

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but seriously how is this even a question. Most men have a strong desire to have sex.

Sometimes they just want to be with variety of women.
Sometimes they want to be with a woman who is hotter/younger than their wife
Sometimes they want to feel wanted/desired
Sometimes they have a sex addiction
Sometimes they are looking for different/wilder/kinkier sex than they have at home
Sometimes they enjoy the thrill of getting one over their wife
Sometimes they are approached or see an opportunity and they think that they won't get caught so it will be OK

Most of the time, they are cheating to get it in because they can, not some grand scheme to eventually divorce and marry the AP.

You forgot: Sometimes they hate women and enjoy the thrill of duping a woman into thinking he cares so that she will relent and have sex with him with the belief they have a sincere relationship, aka rape by fraud.

First, this is not rape by fraud. Sheesh. Don't water down the trauma of rape.

Second, this is not at all a common reason for men to have affairs. Maybe this happened to you, but then I wonder why you married a sociopath.

She's the OW that thought the guy was going to leave for her, not the wife. She is conflating having consensual sex with him and believing his lies as rape, instead of what it really was: her stupidity for getting involved with a married man in the first place.

Incorrect. It is an acknowledgment of how men in a number of these DCUM cheating threads describe how dumb their APs are — people they have ongoing affairs with, not just hook ups — to believe that there’s something more. The men take advantage of that dumbness to get what they want and are laughing at and disparaging the OW behind her back and here on DCUM. That nuance of enjoying duping the AP certainly seems to be an additional reason for why men — at least on DCUM it seems — like to cheat.

I have cheated and I know a lot of men who cheated and not one of them do it in some sociopathic way to laugh at AP.

This list above is a fairly good summary. It's almost always about sex (which they may or may not be getting at home) plus the amazing feeling of being desired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it's an exit affair and he wants out of the marriage. Google it, it's a thing.

Not as typical for men, but very common for married women in affairs. 65% unhappily married women in affairs looking for it as an exit, compared to only 20% of men, and only 2% actually marry the AP.

+1.

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but seriously how is this even a question. Most men have a strong desire to have sex.

Sometimes they just want to be with variety of women.
Sometimes they want to be with a woman who is hotter/younger than their wife
Sometimes they want to feel wanted/desired
Sometimes they have a sex addiction
Sometimes they are looking for different/wilder/kinkier sex than they have at home
Sometimes they enjoy the thrill of getting one over their wife
Sometimes they are approached or see an opportunity and they think that they won't get caught so it will be OK

Most of the time, they are cheating to get it in because they can, not some grand scheme to eventually divorce and marry the AP.

You forgot: Sometimes they hate women and enjoy the thrill of duping a woman into thinking he cares so that she will relent and have sex with him with the belief they have a sincere relationship, aka rape by fraud.

First, this is not rape by fraud. Sheesh. Don't water down the trauma of rape.

Second, this is not at all a common reason for men to have affairs. Maybe this happened to you, but then I wonder why you married a sociopath.

She's the OW that thought the guy was going to leave for her, not the wife. She is conflating having consensual sex with him and believing his lies as rape, instead of what it really was: her stupidity for getting involved with a married man in the first place.

Incorrect. It is an acknowledgment of how men in a number of these DCUM cheating threads describe how dumb their APs are — people they have ongoing affairs with, not just hook ups — to believe that there’s something more. The men take advantage of that dumbness to get what they want and are laughing at and disparaging the OW behind her back and here on DCUM. That nuance of enjoying duping the AP certainly seems to be an additional reason for why men — at least on DCUM it seems — like to cheat.

Yes. If they don’t like themselves and feel bad in midlife, some might deal with that self hate and frustration this way to feel powerful. If they are frustrate or feel powerless or unheard in their marriage they can respond this way in an affair.

But, the women are stupid to get involved with married men in the first place. In DC these men are banging similar aged women for the most part. These aren’t damsels in distress. You put yourself on a website claiming you want a no strings sex partner because your husband won’t bang you, what type of guy do you think is responding? Anyone cheating is first and foremost a LIAR. Of course he’s not what he says or tells you. Sorry, but these women are dumb. It’s why I never ever considered sleeping/dating a married man even in my youth.

[Anonymous]

^^ There was a thread recently about OWs, with at least one story where the man didn’t even tell the OW he was married. So she was duped into believing she was a GF and didn’t even know she was an OW. Is she stupid and gullible? Maybe. But the bottom line is guys like this enjoy this sick game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it's an exit affair and he wants out of the marriage. Google it, it's a thing.

Not as typical for men, but very common for married women in affairs. 65% unhappily married women in affairs looking for it as an exit, compared to only 20% of men, and only 2% actually marry the AP.

+1.

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but seriously how is this even a question. Most men have a strong desire to have sex.

Sometimes they just want to be with variety of women.
Sometimes they want to be with a woman who is hotter/younger than their wife
Sometimes they want to feel wanted/desired
Sometimes they have a sex addiction
Sometimes they are looking for different/wilder/kinkier sex than they have at home
Sometimes they enjoy the thrill of getting one over their wife
Sometimes they are approached or see an opportunity and they think that they won't get caught so it will be OK

Most of the time, they are cheating to get it in because they can, not some grand scheme to eventually divorce and marry the AP.

You forgot: Sometimes they hate women and enjoy the thrill of duping a woman into thinking he cares so that she will relent and have sex with him with the belief they have a sincere relationship, aka rape by fraud.

First, this is not rape by fraud. Sheesh. Don't water down the trauma of rape.

Second, this is not at all a common reason for men to have affairs. Maybe this happened to you, but then I wonder why you married a sociopath.

She's the OW that thought the guy was going to leave for her, not the wife. She is conflating having consensual sex with him and believing his lies as rape, instead of what it really was: her stupidity for getting involved with a married man in the first place.

Incorrect. It is an acknowledgment of how men in a number of these DCUM cheating threads describe how dumb their APs are — people they have ongoing affairs with, not just hook ups — to believe that there’s something more. The men take advantage of that dumbness to get what they want and are laughing at and disparaging the OW behind her back and here on DCUM. That nuance of enjoying duping the AP certainly seems to be an additional reason for why men — at least on DCUM it seems — like to cheat.

I saw the emails my now exDH was sending to the AP. It was actually sad - he told her lies about my relationship with him (like that we weren’t sleeping together when we were multiple times a week, like I had trapped him into the relationship when it was he who proposed to me and we had explicitly discussed having each child). Those lies were designed to make her feel like it was OK he was cheating on me. He was also telling me lies - like that we were having monogamous sex. In both cases, the AP and I consented to sex on the basis of certain ideas he misrepresented. For me, that makes the sex non-consensual. Consent must be informed and freely given in order to be consent;otherwise, it’s nit consent it’s just successful manipulation.

We have to get away from this idea that it is OK for men to use any means to get sex - we have moved away from rape by stranger, date rape and marital rape, but as a culture we have not evolved away from rape by fraud. Many states have no laws against stealthing, which is a form of rape by fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it's an exit affair and he wants out of the marriage. Google it, it's a thing.

Not as typical for men, but very common for married women in affairs. 65% unhappily married women in affairs looking for it as an exit, compared to only 20% of men, and only 2% actually marry the AP.

+1.

I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread, but seriously how is this even a question. Most men have a strong desire to have sex.

Sometimes they just want to be with variety of women.
Sometimes they want to be with a woman who is hotter/younger than their wife
Sometimes they want to feel wanted/desired
Sometimes they have a sex addiction
Sometimes they are looking for different/wilder/kinkier sex than they have at home
Sometimes they enjoy the thrill of getting one over their wife
Sometimes they are approached or see an opportunity and they think that they won't get caught so it will be OK

Most of the time, they are cheating to get it in because they can, not some grand scheme to eventually divorce and marry the AP.

You forgot: Sometimes they hate women and enjoy the thrill of duping a woman into thinking he cares so that she will relent and have sex with him with the belief they have a sincere relationship, aka rape by fraud.

First, this is not rape by fraud. Sheesh. Don't water down the trauma of rape.

Second, this is not at all a common reason for men to have affairs. Maybe this happened to you, but then I wonder why you married a sociopath.

She's the OW that thought the guy was going to leave for her, not the wife. She is conflating having consensual sex with him and believing his lies as rape, instead of what it really was: her stupidity for getting involved with a married man in the first place.

Incorrect. It is an acknowledgment of how men in a number of these DCUM cheating threads describe how dumb their APs are — people they have ongoing affairs with, not just hook ups — to believe that there’s something more. The men take advantage of that dumbness to get what they want and are laughing at and disparaging the OW behind her back and here on DCUM. That nuance of enjoying duping the AP certainly seems to be an additional reason for why men — at least on DCUM it seems — like to cheat.

I saw the emails my now exDH was sending to the AP. It was actually sad - he told her lies about my relationship with him (like that we weren’t sleeping together when we were multiple times a week, like I had trapped him into the relationship when it was he who proposed to me and we had explicitly discussed having each child). Those lies were designed to make her feel like it was OK he was cheating on me. He was also telling me lies - like that we were having monogamous sex. In both cases, the AP and I consented to sex on the basis of certain ideas he misrepresented. For me, that makes the sex non-consensual. Consent must be informed and freely given in order to be consent;otherwise, it’s nit consent it’s just successful manipulation.

We have to get away from this idea that it is OK for men to use any means to get sex - we have moved away from rape by stranger, date rape and marital rape, but as a culture we have not evolved away from rape by fraud. Many states have no laws against stealthing, which is a form of rape by fraud.

That's not a realistic definition of consent for sex. What if the wife had been secretly gambling away the life savings? You could say that a man wouldn't have wanted to have sex with the wife if he'd known because he would have gotten a divorce. Is that non-consensual sex? Of course not.

it's ok to be mad at the lies and manipulation, but calling it rape is nonsense.