I want to get away from friend groups/communities with this specific type of woman: where to go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is envious of the queen B because she wants to be the queen B but can't hack it.

Try not being a B.

Yeah getting that vibe too. So odd.

And I’m also loving the prattling/sweet summer child rivalry 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is envious of the queen B because she wants to be the queen B but can't hack it.

Try not being a B.

OP doesn’t sound envious. It sounds like she just wants to enjoy life like a normal person and not have to deal with toxic dynamics.

DP.

I agree that OP is not envious, but by this age she should have figured that toxic people are everywhere. They are part of the normalcy of life. You have to learn how to deal with them in a way thst maintains your peace. There is no escaping them.

[Anonymous]

Big fan of making friends organically. Not via my kids or who lives in the closest house to me. Are you sure you're expanding your network large enough? You have no obigation to befriend people just because of proximity (neighbors, PTA parents, etc...). My closest friends right now are 2 high school friends who live within an hour of me, 2 college friends who live within half an hour of me (one is my closest friend), one old neighbor that I did click with, a small group I met through my husband (well, one, and then picked up others along the way over the years), then a handful of people I've clicked with through work and friends-of-friends. Literally no one is like this that I am friends with. That said, the moms of kids at my kid's school? Yeah, I can see it. I don't think about them and rarely have to interact with them.

[Anonymous]

^Oh crap, it is possible that this is ME. But whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know anyone like this. Maybe because I’m a minority and they avoid me? Yay.

of course, because all the white people are racist. yawn.

She didn’t say all white people, but thank you for clarifying that white queen bees are equal opportunity in their efforts to annoy and ensnare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you! You are not alone and will find your people…are you interested in any activities that have a higher ratio of men? That may help you to strategically balance the probability of running into these women. Get out of your comfort zone and try something new!
It seriously has gotten so bad for me that I wonder do I have a bias against women now because 95% of my interactions with women are comparitive and competitive, judgy, a constant power struggle and too much more. It is so exhausting you honestly don’t even want to try to meet new women because you’re literally bracing for what’s to come…or maybe find a gay husband, where do they hang out at? I know it’s stereotypical (and not always the case), but the gay guys I have run into are super funny, outgoing, engaging and they will tighten you up on your style. Lol

This is internalized misogyny, and you are giving the gay guys a pass because they are men.

It is exhausting, agreed. This is really hard. If you ask yourself, constantly, what would my reaction be if Diane was Don, it can be both depressing and illuminating.

I will look into that…I give them a pass because the ones I have met are fun! And the energy is different…it’s lighter…the smallest things can become so deep with some women.

The energy is different and lighter because your expectations of their behavior are lower. They sense it and you sense it, and it changes the dynamic.

Things become deep with women because behavior expectations for women are so harsh and the consequences of violating those social norms are so much worse for women.

Interesting perspective, however IMHO, some women tend to over analyze things. People’s lived experiences don’t always need to be explained or rationalized. I think the type of woman that OP is hoping to avoid, tends to see people or certain situations as problems to be solved. We are not allowed to just be.

What makes their energy heavy is the condescension, judgment, unsolicited advice, validation on things that don’t matter to the average person…to me, this is what is very intense and deep. It’s so refreshing to be with people who can go with the flow, everything doesn’t have to fit into a neat little perfect box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know anyone like this. Maybe because I’m a minority and they avoid me? Yay.

Maybe. It's also possible you do know people like this but just don't notice and thus it doesn't impact you. Which would be a real, not snarky, reason for yay.

I think sometimes this behavior annoys me more than it should specifically because I pick up on it very easily. I think the reason why is I grew up in a very dysfunctional family with bad power dynamics (one abusive parent, one enabling parent, lots of sibling rivalry, lots of pitting kids against each other by parents, parentification of older sibling, neglect of younger siblings, parentification of female children, enabling of male children, etc.). Obviously this was bad and as an adult I've gone to lots of therapy to untangle that and figure out how it impacted me and learn to recognize negative power dynamics in relationships.

One side effect of this is that I notice power dynamics, abusive behaviors (not physical abuse, which almost anyone will recognize, but the way people manipulate relationships to their advantage and the other person's disadvantage), controlling behavior, enabling behavior, etc. And once you see this stuff, you cannot unsee it. So people like this probably bother me, or "trigger" me, more than they would someone who just grew up with health family dynamics or hasn't dealt with emotional abuse or been on the losing end of a really bad power dynamic. You may just gloss over all this and just think "huh the one lady has a really strong personality" or "huh those two ladies are friends even though one of them always seems happy and the other always looks kind of unhappy." Whereas I will think "oh, that woman is using the guilt of implied obligation to force people around her to give more money to the PTA than they are comfortable with, and a lot of people do it because they are afraid of her or afraid of being perceived as cheap or gossiped about as having not give as much as others." Or "oh Mary is forcing that friendship on Carla because Mary wants their kids to be best friends but Carla doesn't know how to say no because Mary is very vindictive when she feels slighted and Carla is worried about making an enemy of her."

Wish I had this insight when making friends here in my twenties - could have saved myself some dysfunctional connections!

[Anonymous]

The PP who said women like this view people as problems that need to be solved is right, and that expectation that you will "let" them fix you is incredibly burdensome. It's also really insulting, especially if you were not under the impression that there was anything particularly wrong with you or your life.

A few years ago I saw a photo of a woman online wearing a t-shirt that said "Not looking for advice, thanks." I wouldn't wear that t-shirt but seeing the phrase spelled out like that really struck me. There are a lot of women who just walk around dispensing advice constantly and the idea that no one asked and it's unwanted seems not to have crossed their minds.

I don't make friends so I can get tips on how to live my life. I make friends for companionships and connection. When you are constantly evaluating your friends, judging them as deficient, and trying to advise them on how to improve, that behavior gets in the way of companionship and connection.

I have to assume a lot of these women had overbearing mothers who were very judgmental and critical and thus these women never learned how to just connect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The PP who said women like this view people as problems that need to be solved is right, and that expectation that you will "let" them fix you is incredibly burdensome. It's also really insulting, especially if you were not under the impression that there was anything particularly wrong with you or your life.

A few years ago I saw a photo of a woman online wearing a t-shirt that said "Not looking for advice, thanks." I wouldn't wear that t-shirt but seeing the phrase spelled out like that really struck me. There are a lot of women who just walk around dispensing advice constantly and the idea that no one asked and it's unwanted seems not to have crossed their minds.

I don't make friends so I can get tips on how to live my life. I make friends for companionships and connection. When you are constantly evaluating your friends, judging them as deficient, and trying to advise them on how to improve, that behavior gets in the way of companionship and connection.

I have to assume a lot of these women had overbearing mothers who were very judgmental and critical and thus these women never learned how to just connect.

And I have to assume thst you are a fool who had a foolish mother who jumped to ridiculous conclusions about people's parents. So you never learned how to avoid making baseless conclusions about mothers with horrible adult children.

[Anonymous]

This person exists everywhere, you can't avoid them. It's not a DC thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Say what?

Yeah.

Sounds like OP has got it all figured out…. lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't think about you nearly as much as you seem to think they do, OP. What an odd, unrelatable post. What on EARTH are you prattling on about?

Lol, found one.

Found one what? What the hell are you on about? It's like you think people get what you mean or something.

Different PP and we do, a lot of us REAAALLLLYY do and If you don’t, well… maybe you are one of the type A?


Speaking of, this post struck me because I recognized some of my own tendencies which was both scary and a good wake up call. I went to a posh business school and was surrounded by this dynamic, and I am a somewhat type A with very doting parents. I insulated myself from this mostly by choosing the right career (mission driven) the right husband (think tank and ngo do gooder type), the right neighborhood (hippy ish community).

But sometimes I think I bring that vibe in a group. I am competitive, I like to improve/grow, I am constantly looking for things to work on/learn for myself and my family. It brings me happiness. Which means I also set goals, talk about it, want to enroll my friends in it with me. I thought I was active and energetic and that wanting to help my friends was positive. But I can see how it can be perceived as trying to insert myself in their lives and give too much advice as well as add a competitive / one upping vibe to our group. I also like to have a tight knit group of friends, I don’t like a lot of friendly but superficial relationships. I like to be part of an identifiable crew. Which again can be part of a cliquish tone.

Long story short: your post made me realize that I need to be careful and contain some of my impulses. I think some of my friends think like you and I am not reading them well enough.

[Anonymous]

Interesting profile! I’ve never met anyone like this in my 55 years. But I’m not rich, or type A, or dunning in whatever these circles might be. It almost seems like a caricature, that’s how foreign it feels to me. So it should be easy to avoid. Maybe hang out with the middle class?

[Anonymous]

^running in those circles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't think about you nearly as much as you seem to think they do, OP. What an odd, unrelatable post. What on EARTH are you prattling on about?

Lol, found one.

Found one what? What the hell are you on about? It's like you think people get what you mean or something.

Different PP and we do, a lot of us REAAALLLLYY do and If you don’t, well… maybe you are one of the type A?


Speaking of, this post struck me because I recognized some of my own tendencies which was both scary and a good wake up call. I went to a posh business school and was surrounded by this dynamic, and I am a somewhat type A with very doting parents. I insulated myself from this mostly by choosing the right career (mission driven) the right husband (think tank and ngo do gooder type), the right neighborhood (hippy ish community).

But sometimes I think I bring that vibe in a group. I am competitive, I like to improve/grow, I am constantly looking for things to work on/learn for myself and my family. It brings me happiness. Which means I also set goals, talk about it, want to enroll my friends in it with me. I thought I was active and energetic and that wanting to help my friends was positive. But I can see how it can be perceived as trying to insert myself in their lives and give too much advice as well as add a competitive / one upping vibe to our group. I also like to have a tight knit group of friends, I don’t like a lot of friendly but superficial relationships. I like to be part of an identifiable crew. Which again can be part of a cliquish tone.

Long story short: your post made me realize that I need to be careful and contain some of my impulses. I think some of my friends think like you and I am not reading them well enough.

It's good you are being introspective. But I want to gently suggest that you can't resist it. Because even in this post, you make a point of saying "well I was in danger of becoming like this but then I made ALL the right choices, married the correct man, went into the best job, and chose the perfect neighborhood and friend group.

You can't help it. You are a Type A perfectionist, your parents convinced you of your infallibility, you are accustomed to everyone fawning over everything you do, and you have a deep undercurrent of competition and superiority. You don't give advice to help others, you do it to assert your superior knowledge and understanding of the way the world works. And, conveniently, the world is structured to reaffirm this belief about yourself.

You 100% have friends who think you are a nosy know-it-all who got lucky with the family she was born to and the resources she was given in life, but thinks her success was based on her inherent goodness and that qualifies her to tell other people how to live.

Some of your friends haven't figured this out yet and are trying to take your advice and follow your lead. They will run into obstacles when they discover that your life cannot be achieved via your "tips" but only via being born into it, and they will then start to resent you.

Changing you would require you to let go of the notion that what you have is earned (it mostly isn't) or even that it's all inherently worthwhile (a lot of it is just status signaling designed to ensure people in higher classes stay there and can distinguish themselves from the masses). Which you won't do, because your current outlook benefits you enormously.

But I guess good job on being sort of self aware about it.