I want to get away from friend groups/communities with this specific type of woman: where to go?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP. Actually it completely does. As evidenced by the amount of work you put into copying OP’s post, complete with overly familiar, not funny references (stage 5 clinger, SWF).

Your post isn’t clever and the OP does describe you. You were triggered for this reason.

LOL, wasn’t hard to copy and paste. I did add paragraph breaks because OP “who works in comms” doesn’t know how to use them. The only thing difficult about copying her writing style was that I would never be so long-winded.

So if you don't feel personally attacked by this thread topic, you are spending your Saturday posting extensively in this thread because... why?

No one would get this invested in this topic if their actual response to the OP was "huh, I have never encountered that, how strange." You are responding defensively.

And why shouldn’t I defend the women OP is trying to ridicule or diminish? Sure, I’m standing up for women whose crime is seemingly to exist, and be more popular, essential, successful and relevant than OP.

I thought your claim is that such women don't exist.

And why would anyone "popular, essential, successful, and relevant" need to be defended in a weekend thread on DCUM? The woman you describe would be 100% fine without your intervention.

They’re human, too, and don’t deserve to be shat upon just because OP feels insecure, except when she’s an anonymous keyboard warrior. Because it’s gross that she probably smiles to their face and then spews this jealous, bitter poison.

You were worried for successful, popular women who might stumble upon this thread and apparently take offense, so you thought you should write a screed making fun of people for being fat or friendless to defend them?

You do know the popular girl is not going to befriend you because you stuck up for a hypothetical version of her on some dumb anonymous message board? Right?

You do know that all the women you are so transparently jealous of and resentful of aren’t going to become miserable, bitter shrews like you just because you throw anonymous hate their way? Right?

Of course they won't. It won't impact those women in any way. Some people who struggle with this personality type blew off some steam. The only person melting down here is you, for some reason.

You can obviously aren't a super successful, confident, capable person, or you wouldn't be on this thread throwing a fit. Yet you claim to hate those of us who are jealous of and resent such women. I honestly don't get what your deal is.

I’m participating in a thread that I find interesting, same as you. I’m making counterpoints and arguments, same as you. Are you MAGA? Because the only people I know who characterize discourse they don’t like or agree with as “melting down” are MAGA types. How very interesting.

If I used all caps, or foul language, you may have a point. But no, all I’m doing is…not agreeing with you. And you’re calling that a meltdown. I fin that to be extremely amusing. That’s my “deal”: it amuses me that you can’t handle someone with a different viewpoint.

If you are the person who wrote the lengthy parody of the OP making fun of fat people and people from dysfunctional families, yes, I think you are melting down. That was one of the meanest things I've read on this site in a while. You are punching down.

Accusing me of being MAGA because I disagree with you? That also tracks with your other behavior I'm this thread.

No, I didn’t write the parody. But I think it’s very interesting that OP’s post was somehow just “venting” but any pushback on it is people being horrible.

I didn’t accuse you of being MAGA because you disagree with me. I accused you of being MAGA because those are seriously the only people I know who characterize disagreement as “melting down” and “throwing a fit.” If the shoe fits…

MAGA aren’t the only people who deflect. Any reasonable person would agree that that evil, vile response to the OP was a meltdown…I am trying to unsee it. It’s interesting that you didn’t write the parody but you seem to defend it. I hope the parody poster (PP) doesn’t have children, can you imagine sending your DC to play in a household with someone or multiple people that think like this and model this mentality with their own children.
? Talk about not knowing what goes on behind closed doors. Is there a fiery inferno burning in PP’s basement? OMG

So you aren’t going to address the fact that you accused someone who disagreed with you as throwing a fit and melting down, when they used neither all caps nor foul language, they simply don’t agree with you. Got it. You don’t apologize or acknowledge when you were wrong. Noted.

PP you are right I apologize your hand-me-down home doesn’t have a basement. So sorry to offend you. I was totally out of line.

Stay activated! Stay bothered. I’m tip-toeing through the tulips of your easily addled brain. Love ratting that cage. Keep crashing out. Love that for you.

While you take that leisurely promenade through my brain, may you learn how to spell rattled. r.a.t.t.l.e.d. You’re welcome!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think what happens is sh*t needs to get done, so people ask people who have done the sh*t before successfully. Are they the nicest women you’d want to be friends with? Maybe not always. But they are there, doing things that benefit the community. Do they get a big head, are they rich enough that they have time to spare? Yes, often yes. This is the price of asking the quintessential PTA Mom or Church Lady to run things.

These women are rarely asked.

So why are others not stepping in and taking charge before they "maneuver" their way in? Others don't want to do take charge. It's similar to politics. A certain kind of personality is drawn to politics. People criticize them but don't want to jump in.

Someone else be proactive for a community event? Gasp.

Often other people don't step in because they don't want the event.

Our PTA organizes so many events throughout the year, I feel like it's too much. It becomes burdensome as a parent to participate because it seems like there is always something coming up that requires contributions and participation. My kids want to go to the event because it's talked up at school and their friends will be there, but for me it just means we're going to have to organize a weeknight around something at the school. I know some people love going but we don't -- I'm not super into small talk with other parents and on a weeknight my focus is on dinner, making sure kids do homework and take showers, and having a normal bedtime. I resent having those routines disrupted multiple times a month for school events.

The the school needs chaperones or volunteers to help with stuff around the school, my spouse and almost always volunteer. But we are not event people. I don't volunteer for these events because I don't like them. And I'm not particularly grateful to the people who organize them because they mostly just create obligation for me.

I don't get it. If you are not interested, tell your kids no. Why is that so difficult? Other parents want the extra socialization for their kids and familes and are willing to put up with Queen Bees who make it happen. If it has little to no value for you, stat away. You can always choose to only volunteer fir the PTA events that you think are necessary.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think what happens is sh*t needs to get done, so people ask people who have done the sh*t before successfully. Are they the nicest women you’d want to be friends with? Maybe not always. But they are there, doing things that benefit the community. Do they get a big head, are they rich enough that they have time to spare? Yes, often yes. This is the price of asking the quintessential PTA Mom or Church Lady to run things.

These women are rarely asked.

So why are others not stepping in and taking charge before they "maneuver" their way in? Others don't want to do take charge. It's similar to politics. A certain kind of personality is drawn to politics. People criticize them but don't want to jump in.

Someone else be proactive for a community event? Gasp.

Often other people don't step in because they don't want the event.

Our PTA organizes so many events throughout the year, I feel like it's too much. It becomes burdensome as a parent to participate because it seems like there is always something coming up that requires contributions and participation. My kids want to go to the event because it's talked up at school and their friends will be there, but for me it just means we're going to have to organize a weeknight around something at the school. I know some people love going but we don't -- I'm not super into small talk with other parents and on a weeknight my focus is on dinner, making sure kids do homework and take showers, and having a normal bedtime. I resent having those routines disrupted multiple times a month for school events.

The the school needs chaperones or volunteers to help with stuff around the school, my spouse and almost always volunteer. But we are not event people. I don't volunteer for these events because I don't like them. And I'm not particularly grateful to the people who organize them because they mostly just create obligation for me.

I don't get it. If you are not interested, tell your kids no. Why is that so difficult? Other parents want the extra socialization for their kids and familes and are willing to put up with Queen Bees who make it happen. If it has little to no value for you, stat away. You can always choose to only volunteer fir the PTA events that you think are necessary.

I posted before I’m part of the pta. I don’t know what ages OP’s kids are but after age 8, you can send them with a friend if you don’t want to go. I have taken kids with us. My kids have gone with others. There is no obligation for parents to be friends.

I would say MOST parents are not involved.

[Anonymous]

Our PTA raises fund for all after school clubs and and art/mysic/PE teachers. I don’t begrudge any of the parents who run these programs because they are needed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I disagree women like this are always easily kept at arm's length. The whole issue with this personality is that they are pushy and that can impact other people. I have worked for a woman like this and I've dealt with one at my kid's school and both times it was pretty annoying to deal with them frequently pushing for personal advantages or stepping on toes or overreaching. It's not a crisis or anything, but it's a difficult personality type.

I don't know this person but one example of someone with this personality who would drive me nuts if our kids were in school together is that mom who was pushing really hard to redshirt her kid in DCPS earlier this year. I remember reading about that, and seeing interviews with her. Obviously people like that exist and sometimes their behavior has negative impacts on others.

Oh no, you were annoyed? People are sometimes difficult?

I love that you probably have, like, a “Rebel Girls” book that’s all about RBG, Rosa Parks, Sally Ride, Susan B. Anthony, and other annoying-ass women who wouldn’t stop being so damn pushy all the time. We encourage our girls to be assertive, invested, dedicated, determined, and outspoken, but then when women in our life actually do that, those pushy broads need to STFU, sit down and stop taking up so much space. How dare they want to influence their communities and advocate for their own best interest, and the best interests of their kids?

Uh, if you can't tell the difference between pushing for civil rights and pushing for your kid to get special treatment at their public school, I don't know what to say. No one here is complaining about Rosa Parks.

No, you’re just complaining about women acting on all those things we encourage them to do, following the endless examples of women leaders that we claim to admire. We’re just complaining when women are actually assertive, brave, outspoken, take-charge types who, yes indeed, try to influence the world, in ways big and small.

That’s what you’re doing. Own it.

I think this comment is kind of accidentally revealing of why some women can be very pushy in ways that are aggravating or even harmful to other people. It just sounds like you internalized the #girlboss stereotype as how women are supposed to behave. Where do you get the idea that all women are encouraged to be "assertive, brave, outspoken, take-charge types"? Or that the only way to have a positive impact on the world is to be like this? It's not true.

Did you know the woman who originated the concept of "girlboss" (founder of the Nasty Gal website) was later sued for discriminating against female employees who went on maternity leave? The founder of Thinx period underwear was sued for sexual harassment by a female employee who accused the founder of touching her breasts without consent and undressing in front of staff. These women were both lauded for being assertive take-charge types who I'm sure thought they were having a positive impact on the world. Like plenty of male founders, though, they were blinded by their own ambition and took that "assertiveness" too far.

Oh no, the women in your local PTA discriminated against new moms, and fondled boobs without consent?

Thank you for those two cherry-picked examples of women in power behaving badly. That was really useful anecdata.

You know what, PP? You’re right. Let’s tell our daughters to keep their mouths shut, put their hands down, and focus on being well-liked, at all times, by everybody. Wouldn’t want to trigger an insecure woman into calling them pushy! That would simply end their world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is such an eye opening thread for me! I have been dealing with a woman exactly like this for a while and I am mystified as to why she appears to be so triggered by me! Can someone more socially fluent than me please analyze:

Her: tall, thin stunning blonde, fancy preppy clothes, rich husband, 2 adorable kids under 2, beautiful house and lots of fancy vacations. Went to a preppy undergrad school and works in Marketing. Very Americana upper class/upper middle class preppy life. Queen B with a group of less attractive women who follow her around. They are all really nice and I get along with them all individually!

Me: short petite middle eastern brunette. I’m basically her opposite in every way. I dress in understated and simple and classic clothes; I’m nerdy and bookish, grew up abroad with a lot of foreign travel; have certain perceived status signifiers but not at all comparable to her wealth. I have no idea why she has targeted me for bullying since the first time we met. She’d refuse to acknowledge me or make eye contact and only scowl at me if I looked her way. In groups she’d go out of her way to overshadow me and talk over me. If someone is talking about something…I’d know something about she will answer before I do and not let me get a word in. She either straight up bullies me or tries to boss me around. “Why did you wear the brown Birkenstocks? Get the cute silver ones!” Just randomly unsolicited advice.

She will also try to exclude me by giving me dirty looks and ensuring I don’t dare speak to “her” friends!

No one responded! 😩

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I disagree women like this are always easily kept at arm's length. The whole issue with this personality is that they are pushy and that can impact other people. I have worked for a woman like this and I've dealt with one at my kid's school and both times it was pretty annoying to deal with them frequently pushing for personal advantages or stepping on toes or overreaching. It's not a crisis or anything, but it's a difficult personality type.

I don't know this person but one example of someone with this personality who would drive me nuts if our kids were in school together is that mom who was pushing really hard to redshirt her kid in DCPS earlier this year. I remember reading about that, and seeing interviews with her. Obviously people like that exist and sometimes their behavior has negative impacts on others.

Oh no, you were annoyed? People are sometimes difficult?

I love that you probably have, like, a “Rebel Girls” book that’s all about RBG, Rosa Parks, Sally Ride, Susan B. Anthony, and other annoying-ass women who wouldn’t stop being so damn pushy all the time. We encourage our girls to be assertive, invested, dedicated, determined, and outspoken, but then when women in our life actually do that, those pushy broads need to STFU, sit down and stop taking up so much space. How dare they want to influence their communities and advocate for their own best interest, and the best interests of their kids?

Uh, if you can't tell the difference between pushing for civil rights and pushing for your kid to get special treatment at their public school, I don't know what to say. No one here is complaining about Rosa Parks.

No, you’re just complaining about women acting on all those things we encourage them to do, following the endless examples of women leaders that we claim to admire. We’re just complaining when women are actually assertive, brave, outspoken, take-charge types who, yes indeed, try to influence the world, in ways big and small.

That’s what you’re doing. Own it.

I think this comment is kind of accidentally revealing of why some women can be very pushy in ways that are aggravating or even harmful to other people. It just sounds like you internalized the #girlboss stereotype as how women are supposed to behave. Where do you get the idea that all women are encouraged to be "assertive, brave, outspoken, take-charge types"? Or that the only way to have a positive impact on the world is to be like this? It's not true.

Did you know the woman who originated the concept of "girlboss" (founder of the Nasty Gal website) was later sued for discriminating against female employees who went on maternity leave? The founder of Thinx period underwear was sued for sexual harassment by a female employee who accused the founder of touching her breasts without consent and undressing in front of staff. These women were both lauded for being assertive take-charge types who I'm sure thought they were having a positive impact on the world. Like plenty of male founders, though, they were blinded by their own ambition and took that "assertiveness" too far.

Oh no, the women in your local PTA discriminated against new moms, and fondled boobs without consent?

Thank you for those two cherry-picked examples of women in power behaving badly. That was really useful anecdata.

You know what, PP? You’re right. Let’s tell our daughters to keep their mouths shut, put their hands down, and focus on being well-liked, at all times, by everybody. Wouldn’t want to trigger an insecure woman into calling them pushy! That would simply end their world.

I don't have anything bad to say about PTA women but I have worked for a woman who was like this -- pushy to the point of causing harm, in the name of being a "girl boss." It sucked, and she treated women worse than men.

So these women exist and are harmful. I don't know why you are so married to the idea that they don't. There are of course powerful women who use their power and assertiveness in positive ways. But just like with men, some don't and many of us would like to avoid them. Why is that so hard to accept?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP. Actually it completely does. As evidenced by the amount of work you put into copying OP’s post, complete with overly familiar, not funny references (stage 5 clinger, SWF).

Your post isn’t clever and the OP does describe you. You were triggered for this reason.

LOL, wasn’t hard to copy and paste. I did add paragraph breaks because OP “who works in comms” doesn’t know how to use them. The only thing difficult about copying her writing style was that I would never be so long-winded.

So if you don't feel personally attacked by this thread topic, you are spending your Saturday posting extensively in this thread because... why?

No one would get this invested in this topic if their actual response to the OP was "huh, I have never encountered that, how strange." You are responding defensively.

And why shouldn’t I defend the women OP is trying to ridicule or diminish? Sure, I’m standing up for women whose crime is seemingly to exist, and be more popular, essential, successful and relevant than OP.

I thought your claim is that such women don't exist.

And why would anyone "popular, essential, successful, and relevant" need to be defended in a weekend thread on DCUM? The woman you describe would be 100% fine without your intervention.

I don’t care what anyone’s claim is.

I find people like Op claiming to know everything about someone’s childhood, marriage, spouse, kids, and academic history to be beyond pretentious and stupid.

So that’s when and where I stopped taking Op seriously.

Women like this make sure you know about their spouse, kids, childhood, and academic history. Because they are pushy and tell you about it even when you are backing away. That's the whole problem. You know all about them (because they have Main Character Syndrome) and they know nothing about you, because they view you as supporting cast whose role is simply to serve their goals. It's part of what makes them so irritating.

Wtf type of people and convos are you having Pp? Sounds like loserville.

We have kids at sidwell and work in PE, in DC. No one drops the H bomb or talks about their k-12 private school or boarding school or where they work like that.

[Anonymous]

At no point did Op talk about a PTA situation, just apparently a work situation and then broad generalizations and assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:NP. Actually it completely does. As evidenced by the amount of work you put into copying OP’s post, complete with overly familiar, not funny references (stage 5 clinger, SWF).

Your post isn’t clever and the OP does describe you. You were triggered for this reason.

LOL, wasn’t hard to copy and paste. I did add paragraph breaks because OP “who works in comms” doesn’t know how to use them. The only thing difficult about copying her writing style was that I would never be so long-winded.

So if you don't feel personally attacked by this thread topic, you are spending your Saturday posting extensively in this thread because... why?

No one would get this invested in this topic if their actual response to the OP was "huh, I have never encountered that, how strange." You are responding defensively.

And why shouldn’t I defend the women OP is trying to ridicule or diminish? Sure, I’m standing up for women whose crime is seemingly to exist, and be more popular, essential, successful and relevant than OP.

I thought your claim is that such women don't exist.

And why would anyone "popular, essential, successful, and relevant" need to be defended in a weekend thread on DCUM? The woman you describe would be 100% fine without your intervention.

I don’t care what anyone’s claim is.

I find people like Op claiming to know everything about someone’s childhood, marriage, spouse, kids, and academic history to be beyond pretentious and stupid.

So that’s when and where I stopped taking Op seriously.

Women like this make sure you know about their spouse, kids, childhood, and academic history. Because they are pushy and tell you about it even when you are backing away. That's the whole problem. You know all about them (because they have Main Character Syndrome) and they know nothing about you, because they view you as supporting cast whose role is simply to serve their goals. It's part of what makes them so irritating.

Wtf type of people and convos are you having Pp? Sounds like loserville.

We have kids at sidwell and work in PE, in DC. No one drops the H bomb or talks about their k-12 private school or boarding school or where they work like that.

Yeah, no one name drops their private school or where they work like that.

[promptly name drops kids' name brand private school and notes they work in PE]

Lol.

[Anonymous]

Every big city has people like this, because they gravitate toward big cities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every big city has people like this, because they gravitate toward big cities.

Specifically, people like this gravitate toward big cities after college graduation, because this is where they will have a better likelihood of meeting a spouse and also hone their type-A personality at work (Regardless of where they continue to work long-term). What the big city they go to is depends a little on interests, college, and where they are from originally, but every major US city (New York, Chicago, DC, SF, LA, Dallas, etc.) will all draw these types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every big city has people like this, because they gravitate toward big cities.

Specifically, people like this gravitate toward big cities after college graduation, because this is where they will have a better likelihood of meeting a spouse and also hone their type-A personality at work (Regardless of where they continue to work long-term). What the big city they go to is depends a little on interests, college, and where they are from originally, but every major US city (New York, Chicago, DC, SF, LA, Dallas, etc.) will all draw these types.

I agree with this, and know that a major reason this personality type bothers me is because I used to be like this. And I moved to the area because I was like this. And then I went through some things that made me stop being like this, but in the meantime got married, built a career, and had kids. So now I find myself aggravated by this personality and know I could probably get away from the worst of it by changing fields or moving, but doing so is challenging at midlife because of fairly deep ties to this area and a lot invested in my career and especially my present position (which I like a lot).

I don't blame people for being like this. Like I'm not mad at them for being ambitious or aggressive. Maybe sometimes in the moment I feel frustrated with them, but mostly I realize that my values and priorities have shifted and that's all it is. I just don't think this way anymore.

The hardest part for me is raising my kids in a community where these attitudes are common, and trying to fight it in my own parenting. My oldest is almost in MS and I think that's going to be the critical point for my spouse and I. He is not like this at all and never has been (that's part of why I changed) and it's not what we want our kids to believe. Yet here we are. I understand this is a challenge of our own making, but it is a challenge nonetheless.

[Anonymous]

NP. I know women like this. In my world they are mostly lawyers or in PR. They’re competitive but also want to be viewed as fun, down to earth (so not) and popular. On Urban Baby some people called these women ‘great group of friends’ women because IRL they were always letting you know how they were going out for ‘ladies nights’ and spa days with their ‘great group’ of friends. Their kids too, of course, always have a ‘great group of friends’.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every big city has people like this, because they gravitate toward big cities.

Specifically, people like this gravitate toward big cities after college graduation, because this is where they will have a better likelihood of meeting a spouse and also hone their type-A personality at work (Regardless of where they continue to work long-term). What the big city they go to is depends a little on interests, college, and where they are from originally, but every major US city (New York, Chicago, DC, SF, LA, Dallas, etc.) will all draw these types.

I don’t think OP’s topic is high achieving women.

I can’t tell if it’s something else about
(A) mentally unstable women with tons of time and desire to manipulative groups of whatever and give advice or orders, or
(B) if any woman in charge of managing something simply offends Op no matter what.