I want to get away from friend groups/communities with this specific type of woman: where to go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ah, yes, the competitive DC sanctimommy. Always first to kiss an ass if there are social points involved, will humblebrag you to death, and frequently "helpful" in ways that are nothing but condescending twattery.

How to avoid: Go somewhere volunteers are expected to perform a meaningful service, not just show off. The PTA is obviously out (PTAs are known mommymartyr showcases). Try sorting clothes at A Wider Circle or serving food at SOME (So Others Might Eat). Don't go anywhere the volunteers are there to specifically help those in leadership/power positions (again, think of the PTA and whose asses are getting kissed). Avoid anywhere that's a photo op, or somewhere volunteers get recognition beyond a simple "thank you".

But honestly? In this area, they're hard to avoid. Your best bet is to learn to ignore, but reserve an ice-cold burn or cut for when they pipe off. Understand that they're going to talk about you anyway and be willing to weaponize it. Calling them out just calls in their flying monkeys. You have to 'bless your heart' them, excessively, in public, in a way that points out what fake-ass nonsense they are full of. Do it right, and they'll start kissing YOUR ass, just to shut you up.

These women are not sanctimonious because they're not hypocritical. In order for there to be sanctimony one must be both pious and hypocritical. The word you want is "smug."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel you, OP. Our immediate neighborhood has one of these (you nailed the description) and it makes me want to move. I haven’t found too many people to be friends with, or they generally move away.

OP here. Our neighborhood is really diverse so it kind of amazes me how often I wind up in proximity to women like this but it pretty much always happens. Right now my elementary-age kid attends a school (local public) where two such women are engaged in a weird battle for control of the PTA and one of them keeps trying to adopt me to her side even though I'm not super into the PTA and it's so uncomfortable and weird. I am getting tired of just always plastering a smile on my face at school events and then trying to duck out early to avoid running into either of them or winding up in a conversation with another parent who wants to discuss this dumb battle. I just don't care. But it also means it's hard to make friends at the school because so much revolves around these women who suck all the air out of every room.

So I would suggest approaching the group of these women and loudly, obnoxiously and very confidently stating your position, supported by references to the latest data on PTO. Then leave the scene, not allowing them to process and go into a brawl with you. Rinse and repeat on other subjects particular if they are focused on something really stupid. Do it in front of their husbands and offer "to help". They will learn to respect

What about if you don't have an opinion because you don't think any of the stuff they are arguing over matters at all?

Then you need to make them look really stupid in front of others by pointing that out. Be smarter then them and a little bit a b..ch
But I personally couldn’t handle this toxicity and stupidity at work environment. On Teams calls they would literally discuss for hours the design of Christmas gift bottles field office employees; air flights points collection system and similar BS. Only to offload the stuff on some associate in the end and forget .
I switched jobs and moved away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ah, yes, the competitive DC sanctimommy. Always first to kiss an ass if there are social points involved, will humblebrag you to death, and frequently "helpful" in ways that are nothing but condescending twattery.

How to avoid: Go somewhere volunteers are expected to perform a meaningful service, not just show off. The PTA is obviously out (PTAs are known mommymartyr showcases). Try sorting clothes at A Wider Circle or serving food at SOME (So Others Might Eat). Don't go anywhere the volunteers are there to specifically help those in leadership/power positions (again, think of the PTA and whose asses are getting kissed). Avoid anywhere that's a photo op, or somewhere volunteers get recognition beyond a simple "thank you".

But honestly? In this area, they're hard to avoid. Your best bet is to learn to ignore, but reserve an ice-cold burn or cut for when they pipe off. Understand that they're going to talk about you anyway and be willing to weaponize it. Calling them out just calls in their flying monkeys. You have to 'bless your heart' them, excessively, in public, in a way that points out what fake-ass nonsense they are full of. Do it right, and they'll start kissing YOUR ass, just to shut you up.

OP here and this is insightful advice, especially about volunteer activities that have no chance of resulting in recognition or power -- I'll think about that, I bet I can find something.

I'll have to work on the "bless your heart" attitude -- I am so bad at that kind of thing. Even now I still feel caught off guard by a lot of this behavior and when I encounter it in social settings, my instinct is to just smile and nod and try to find a way out of the room but I think this contributes to making me a target. I need to work on this. What I really want is to just be invisible to these women so they don't think of me at all, but I'm finding it hard because their whole thing is that they are looking for control and dominance and it's hard to escape that, especially at work or any kind of closed community (I've had an easier time avoiding them in more casual environments but there is still one in my neighborhood that is shockingly hard to get away from).

[Anonymous]

I love the Unitarian church, Reinn Faire and international community posters. They’re 100% right. I’ve also been known to say:

I don’t care about those things
I refuse to get involved with that
I don’t gossip

It’s the only way. You have to draw a line and then don’t cross it.

I had a mother try and socially engineer a friendship between our sons when they were in elem school. My response: I don’t get involved in my son’s friend-making or friendships. You would have thought I blew up a bomb in the woman’s face and I’m sure she talked about me behind my back but she left me alone after that.

You can’t 100% avoid these women so get comfortable being clear about what you will and will not tolerate/engage in etc. and then let the chips fall.

[Anonymous]

I think these are narcissists who get their “supply” from people they can manipulate. Every person they meet is sized up in the first five minutes based on how rich they are, how smart, how physically attractive, and how much use they can be used to their advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:haha +1 to the Unitarian Church (All Souls) and truly none of these women there

Where to NOT spend time: hanging out with lawyers, anyone who does PR, lobbyists or Hill types

Yes to nonprofits, making friends with former Peace Corps volunteers. Don't laugh, but I began to love living in DC when I escaped the Hill bubble I was in and made friends with a bunch of RPCVs. Career Feds, think tankers (but they have other obnoxious tendencies) or anyone in a mission-driven career are also all over DC in droves.

Yeah, I live in a neighborhood full of the mission driven types you describe. Former neighbors who moved away to fancier parts of DC say they like their bigger house and yard but have had trouble fitting in with the Joneses and may possibly move back to the humble side of town once their kids' school path is more certain.

[Anonymous]

I don’t actually know anyone like that. But we’re kind of middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually know anyone like that. But we’re kind of middle class.

And when I say middle class, I mean we rent and not a nice house. Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:haha +1 to the Unitarian Church (All Souls) and truly none of these women there

Where to NOT spend time: hanging out with lawyers, anyone who does PR, lobbyists or Hill types

Yes to nonprofits, making friends with former Peace Corps volunteers. Don't laugh, but I began to love living in DC when I escaped the Hill bubble I was in and made friends with a bunch of RPCVs. Career Feds, think tankers (but they have other obnoxious tendencies) or anyone in a mission-driven career are also all over DC in droves.

Yeah, I live in a neighborhood full of the mission driven types you describe. Former neighbors who moved away to fancier parts of DC say they like their bigger house and yard but have had trouble fitting in with the Joneses and may possibly move back to the humble side of town once their kids' school path is more certain.

IME many people like this are "mission driven" or work for non-profits. They have to have money from somewhere, but it can come from the spouse's job or from family. And the non-profit sector in DC can be as competitive and clout-chasing as politics or the corporate world. The way you chase clout in those communities can be different, but it's the same impulse of wanting to be on top, be influential, be admired. In some ways it's worse because the people in these worlds can be so fake -- they will claim that their real concern is helping people or fighting for a cause but then what seems to matter most to them is putting their names on things, having their photo taken, and being applauded for all their "good works."

I live on Capitol Hill which has a mix of the non-profit folks, fed workers, lawyers/consultants/lobbyists, straight up corporate types, and pure politicos. Any of them can be like this. DC is a very status-driven town and all of these fields offer ways of achieving status and influence through social manipulation and clout chasing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually know anyone like that. But we’re kind of middle class.

OP here. We are not "kind of" middle class. We are middle class. We own a tiny home we bought for under 500k when rates were really low and cannot afford to fix it up or to move. We have extremely normal jobs with no power or prestige. Public schools, modest backgrounds. I work in a field with a lot of jobs in the DC area due to the federal government and all the universities, which is how we wound up here, but it's not a glamorous field at all.

My perception is that a lot of the people I encounter like this only make slightly more than we do, but either have a spouse making a lot or have money from family. We don't live in NW DC or one of the pricy suburbs. I assume this issue is even worse in those communities, but I'll never find out because we could never afford to live there, nor will we ever send our kids to any of these elite privates (or any private school) or get them involved in any super expensive EC. But even in our very middle class existence, I encounter people like this a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah, yes, the competitive DC sanctimommy. Always first to kiss an ass if there are social points involved, will humblebrag you to death, and frequently "helpful" in ways that are nothing but condescending twattery.

How to avoid: Go somewhere volunteers are expected to perform a meaningful service, not just show off. The PTA is obviously out (PTAs are known mommymartyr showcases). Try sorting clothes at A Wider Circle or serving food at SOME (So Others Might Eat). Don't go anywhere the volunteers are there to specifically help those in leadership/power positions (again, think of the PTA and whose asses are getting kissed). Avoid anywhere that's a photo op, or somewhere volunteers get recognition beyond a simple "thank you".

But honestly? In this area, they're hard to avoid. Your best bet is to learn to ignore, but reserve an ice-cold burn or cut for when they pipe off. Understand that they're going to talk about you anyway and be willing to weaponize it. Calling them out just calls in their flying monkeys. You have to 'bless your heart' them, excessively, in public, in a way that points out what fake-ass nonsense they are full of. Do it right, and they'll start kissing YOUR ass, just to shut you up.

OP here and this is insightful advice, especially about volunteer activities that have no chance of resulting in recognition or power -- I'll think about that, I bet I can find something.

I'll have to work on the "bless your heart" attitude -- I am so bad at that kind of thing. Even now I still feel caught off guard by a lot of this behavior and when I encounter it in social settings, my instinct is to just smile and nod and try to find a way out of the room but I think this contributes to making me a target. I need to work on this. What I really want is to just be invisible to these women so they don't think of me at all, but I'm finding it hard because their whole thing is that they are looking for control and dominance and it's hard to escape that, especially at work or any kind of closed community (I've had an easier time avoiding them in more casual environments but there is still one in my neighborhood that is shockingly hard to get away from).

Despite your attempts to convince us that you are better than them (if you have lived in DC, you know the type and they suck) - you aren’t. You are part of this crazy, weird dynamic that goes on here. Your detailed description about how they are parented and what their husband is like, screams insecurity. The fact that you are posting a screed about this is crazy. Just ignore.

I was very involved in our private school events committee until two terrible women took over. I dropped out and didn’t give it another thought. They were willing to do a job I wasn’t (hence the force of nature). I appreciated that but didn’t need to subject myself to their bad personalities.

[Anonymous]

Try to find people that are from DC. We’re not like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually know anyone like that. But we’re kind of middle class.

OP here. We are not "kind of" middle class. We are middle class. We own a tiny home we bought for under 500k when rates were really low and cannot afford to fix it up or to move. We have extremely normal jobs with no power or prestige. Public schools, modest backgrounds. I work in a field with a lot of jobs in the DC area due to the federal government and all the universities, which is how we wound up here, but it's not a glamorous field at all.

My perception is that a lot of the people I encounter like this only make slightly more than we do, but either have a spouse making a lot or have money from family. We don't live in NW DC or one of the pricy suburbs. I assume this issue is even worse in those communities, but I'll never find out because we could never afford to live there, nor will we ever send our kids to any of these elite privates (or any private school) or get them involved in any super expensive EC. But even in our very middle class existence, I encounter people like this a lot.

It must be you. I posted upthread and live in CCDC and haven't encountered this dynamic in any friendships or relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel you, OP. Our immediate neighborhood has one of these (you nailed the description) and it makes me want to move. I haven’t found too many people to be friends with, or they generally move away.

OP here. Our neighborhood is really diverse so it kind of amazes me how often I wind up in proximity to women like this but it pretty much always happens. Right now my elementary-age kid attends a school (local public) where two such women are engaged in a weird battle for control of the PTA and one of them keeps trying to adopt me to her side even though I'm not super into the PTA and it's so uncomfortable and weird. I am getting tired of just always plastering a smile on my face at school events and then trying to duck out early to avoid running into either of them or winding up in a conversation with another parent who wants to discuss this dumb battle. I just don't care. But it also means it's hard to make friends at the school because so much revolves around these women who suck all the air out of every room.

Try more international school. I've made really good parents friends at WIS and the environment wasn't like that. But heard similar stories about Cathedral and other very "DC elite" privates

Lol, private school parents are to be avoided at all costs. No thank you.
-NP

[Anonymous]

I avoid those women like the plague, because I'm 45 and can't stand that particular personality.

BUT

A lot of these women, OP, are actually kind-hearted and tolerant. It's not their fault they were born to have lots of energy and leadership and social aspirations. Would you judge a man for being like that? Don't treat women differently.

ALSO

Like attracts like. Are YOU like this, or do you aspire to be that way, and are you jealous of these women? Because none of my friends are like this.