My wife is an entitled bum

[Anonymous]

OP, I would outsource. But I also agree with the PPs that the fact that you two don't have children, and there are already issues in how you two interact being a big crack in your marriage foundation. While the issue itself (dirty house/living standards) can be addressed with money, the bigger issue (responsiveness to finding a mutual resolution between the two of you) is not something so easy to address. Problems arise when other issues that don't go away (co-parenting, job loss, sickness, etc.) down the road in life are the issues that break a marriage. That is why you are getting advice to leave before it is difficult.

I don't think you should leave - but I do think you should take this opportunity to express exactly this type of worry to your wife and consider introducing tools that will help your marriage. That could be sometihing as simple as a workshop together, or reading a $15 amazon book together on working through issues from each person's perspective. Therapy would be the standard DCUM answer, but it works.

I was you 10 years ago, I took advice like this, and when problems escalated in life, our marriage completely broke. We were focusing on the problems but had never built the tools to solve them as a couple. Please don't underestimate the importance and priority of taking this time now to do that. It is so much harder to function, the desire stronger to leave, and the consequences greater, if you do it once you can't take it anymore.

I don't take marriage vows lightly. But being married and not being committed in the marriage is just as bad, sometimes worse than a divorce. There are always symptoms of the true health of your relationship. It is your responsibility and hers to pay attention to symptoms, diagnose the problem, and then resolve it. The earlier you get into the habit of doing this, the stronger and more beautiful your marriage will become.

Unfortunately in my case, we divorced. But are better for it. I hope you and your wife's marriage can have a better outcome than ours did.

[Anonymous]

I want to know if this is new behavior or if this is how she always was. I have a friend who butted heads with her significant other when they first moved in together because she was messy and he was not. But her biggest argument was she has ALWAYS been messy and that didn't change, and he knew it. So why did he expect something different?

[Anonymous]

Omg, you people are so stupid - do you REALLY not understand the real meaning of his post???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Omg, you people are so stupid - do you REALLY not understand the real meaning of his post???

Clearly we are ignorant. Enlighten us with your wisdom.

[Anonymous]

You women are nuts. In our house, whoever cooks doesn't clean the dishes. Sometimes if I make a crazy elaborate meal I will clean it mostly up but it's only fair that OPs wife throws the freaking dishes in the dishwasher. You can't really outsource rhat unless you have a live in cook and housecleaner.

[Anonymous]

OP, you are in the same profession and you earn half what she does. So if she were choosing to be mean, she could call you a bum. Because if she is in BigLaw and you are doing something else that pays 50% less, you either chose to do something less lucrative, or you didn’t do well enough in law school to get a higher paying job. Either way sounds “bum like” to me. I’m in BigLaw, and it’s brutal. A 9 to 5 lower paying job sounds nice, but I stay in BigLaw because the money is very important to our family (we have kids). My husband earns much less than me, and does the vast majority of chores and kid stuff. We do pay for a weekly cleaning service. My husband values and is proud of my high income and the lifestyle it affords us. I in turn value all he does for the household. There were several years where his income was so low that it cost us money for him to work due to the cost of childcare. But he prefers to work and I love him so I supported that. If my husband’s career takes off some day, I am happy to step back and take over more household stuff, provided of course his career can replace my earnings from going part time. He knows that, but is very happy being an involved dad and not working long hours (his words, not mine). We don’t bean count but recognize that both of us make huge and irreplaceable contributions to our household. We are very happy. My husband would never call me a bum for contributing a lot less on the chores side, and I would never call him a bum for contributing a lot less on the money side.
You can certainly just leave your wife. If she makes twice what you do, she can literally hire someone to clean, cook etc., and probably end up doing not that much more than what she does now. If she were a “bum” she’d be pretty screwed without you supporting her, but I suspect if she is in BigLaw making 200k+ a year that she will do just fine. You, on the other hand, will still do all of the exact same chores you do now, except you will no longer have the same standard of living because you will literally have access to a third of the income you had before. And maybe you resent your wife so much that you’d prefer to have way less money and the same chore load, just to force your wife to either pay for or do chores. But that seems incredibly stupid. And let’s say you meet someone else who does 50% of the chores and earns the same as your wife - are you going to step up and start earning 50% of the money? If not, is she allowed to call you a bum and divorce you?

[Anonymous]

I am a woman and I think the solution to this problem is very simple: hire someone!
I wonder what people would say though if the roles were reversed (as often are). I personally think it’s totally fine for the spouse that has more time to contribute more (it’s only fair), but would the answer change if the man was the one doing nothing around the house? I don’t know.

Also OP, does she expects you to clean up? Does she care if the house is clean or dirty or messy? If she doesn’t and you do, then that’s one more reason for you to chip in more. However, if she expects you to do all the cleaning because she makes more money, then I would be upset too.

[Anonymous]

Biglaw partner here, and i'm sympathetic to OP and his wife's situation. But i can assure you, in no uncertain terms, that the only solution is to hire a cleaner. Unlike all the DC-area martyrs on here who think it's no big deal to leave work at 6, or 7 or 8pm and come home to do an hour of chores, i am a normal sane person who recognizes that life is shitty if this is your grind every day. Can you do it? Sure! Is there a reason your life needs to be so shitty? no! Will it grind you down over a few years? Yes!

Leaving at 6pm and getting home by 6:30pm or so.... sure, you have energy to have a quick shower, do 10 minutes of tidying from breakfast, and make a decent dinner to put on the table when your DW gets home at 8pm. But when you get home at 8pm from work, that's already a long day. You eat dinner, and now it's 8:45, and you haven't zoned out the whole day. Why would you possibly want to clean up from dinner? And don't even get me started on cleaning toilets or other chores. So other people on here may whine about how they do 12 hour days every day, and if their lives are so terrible, then why shouldn't yours be too....** But the OP is lucky to have lots of cash and there's no reason they should be this unhappy. Hire a weekly cleaner -- get recommendations from your friends. You'll find someone who they've been using for years, so no trust issues. Put your foot down with your DW on this issue. Simplify dinners so that they are one pot clean ups (these are frequently the healthiest meals -- salads, roasted foods, grilling etc). Cleanup from dinner should take no more than 10 minutes -- tackle it together every night. Insist that DW clean her own breakfast before work. Problems solved.

If your DW refuses to adjust on these things, then it does seem that you have some deeper issues.

** i recall a thread a few months back where a newly back to work mom was asking about how the heck she was supposed to do anything in her life, what with pick up, drop off, cooking, bedtime routine, and a 10 hour work day, and some woman actually suggested she start going to the grocery store after the kids were asleep, followed by the gym at 10pm, and wake at 5:30am. This is just lunacy.

[Anonymous]

Your anger is the real issue here. I actually agree that your feelings are valid but your reaction suggests that you and DW are not a good match. Listen to other PPs and don't have children. Like we partners of low-libido spouses have learned, the behavior is highly unlikely to change, only the excuses. If you want a clean house you have to make getting a cleaning service non-negotiable. Otherwise accept that you will always live in a dirty house and that you will feel worse and worse about it over time. She makes more money, she treats you as second-tier, you can't stand that. Break the dynamic or the marriage is dead.

[Anonymous]

Op here

This has generated a lot of interest.
First of all, I make 150k, she makes 320k. I’m not a slouch and work high up at a firm that does a lot of advocacy work for those that don’t have the deep pockets. I’m fine with my work for those attacking me for being a bum.

My wife is simply unrealistic in her expectations and has a strong selfish streak. I understand she works long hours. I am proud of her and what she has accomplished. I’ve helped her along the way. When she took a second bar early on and I was working 12 hour days. I did every little thing in the house. Never complained. It was a hard time for her to be in big law as an associate working long hours and then studying.

I would also quiz her afterwards. There were days I was coming home at 9 or 10 pm and still making dinners, the laundry etc. our income wasn’t close to what it is now and we lived in an apartment.
She was grateful. Don’t get me wrong. But after she was done, nothing changed. I was still working long hours (different job) and coming home and doing everything. At the time it wasn’t too much, but it is the thought that counts.

I am not unrealistic in my expectations. I would love to hire someone. But she doesn’t trust them. I am slowly working on convincing her and I am getting somewhere.

As for food. I am no fan of eating out and she isn’t either. She’s gained eight and is unhappy about that. Besides her sedentary lifestyle, she blamed eating out st work etc so likes the home cooked meals.
Again, I have no problem cooking and doing dishes as I go, but I need to see an effort on her part.

Also, the big law cash st one point may dry out if she’s not making partner and then she’ll be making comparable money to me. Maybe a bit more. She isn’t going to change her habits

For those that say look to the parents. Her mom is a clean freak which is why DW only cleans the house when she’s visiting. Her mom actually then cleans more.

I’ve tried calmly addressing it. I’ve tried fighting. I’ve trried the encouraging words. I just don’t know where to go from here. We have a good relationship otherwise. Get along well, good sex, fun times.

[Anonymous]

Didn’t know men like you existed. I wish my DH was half as good as you. He never cleans, certainly doesn’t cook. Makes half of what you make and still feels entitled.

[Anonymous]

Well, this is a good problem to have in the big picture, OP!
And it’s great that you are engaging with her, believe that you are getting somewhere, and otherwise seem to have a mutually supportive environment. Thankfully, outsourcing and helping DW get over her that concerns will be a huge help.

If you’re comfortable with the idea of a house camera, that can help. Or you can find a cleaning service that will work in the evening hours, when you’re home, you don’t ha r to give them a house key. Consider someone who might work for a small business, and over time as she builds trust, maybe the schedule can change for someone to come in your home daily for an hour in the AM and an hour in the PM, then weekly deep cleans early weekend mornings, for a price you two negotiate with the business. It doesn’t have to be the classic cleaning model to work for you.

I’m encouraged by the healthy dynamics I hear in your post. I wish you two the best, it’s good that you’re looking for advice on how to strengthen what is good, and make the weaknesses in each other irrelevant. That is the key to any strong partnership, business marriage or otherwise.

PP 7:31

[Anonymous]

*that concerns = trust concerns

[Anonymous]

Two people making almost TEN times the median household income, and one is whining about the other not doing chores.

It's obvious you should hire someone to come over and cook and do chores. Or live separately, if you can't come to a commonsense, adult agreement about how to manage a household together. How about two small townhouse units next to each other? Sometimes people do better in relationships when they don't live together, especially if they have issues with control or immaturity.

[Anonymous]

If a less-earning wife was complaining about doing all the housework, DCUM witches would cry: divorce!

OP, frankly, I don't get people like you. Home life should be pleasant, a refuge from the hardships of the world. If you're not happy in your marriage, where ARE you happy? Why are you wasting your life with the woman you don't even seem to like? Get out before kids. Be free.