GF went out on ..not sure what to call it...with a random guy..advice sought

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why women have to tread more lightly with men has been explained by 8 different people, but there are none so blind as them that will not see.

Every man has been repeatedly rejected by women - usually clearly and firmly, but sometimes brutally - which is why we don’t believe this bullshit about how the OPs girlfriend was “treading lightly” with the guy. A woman is just not going to meet a guy if she’s not interested. We’re not blind to this explanation, we simply don’t believe it because it’s not true.

Of course, men know better than women because men have met women. Women are just women, what would they know about being women?

Yes, we do know better. We deal with you. We know how cold and ruthless you are when you're truly not interested or when you used to be interested but are done with us now.

What you are doing in this thread is making up excuses for the misbehavior of another woman - a very common thing (see: in-group bias, gender preferences in).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you would have been cool with your boyfriend going on a date with another woman to talk about dating?

NP here. The guy didn’t ask her out on a date, he asked to meet her as a friend and is someone she sees in her social circle for her child versus it being a random person. To be honest, he was the jerk in this scenario because he wasn’t honest that he was asking her on a date, he did zero intel if she was dating before asking her out “as friends”, and didn’t make it easy for her to say no and avoid it being awkward because of the way he asked. In this situation it shifted the burden to your girlfriend to figure out how to let him down easy, scramble to recruit a friend to help all while trying not to cause friction in your relationship. I mean darn, she was just minding her business and trying to watch her kid participate in the activity. Bringing a friend to the outing was the best way to “tell him that you aren’t interested without telling him that you aren’t interested” and then she explicit told him that she is in a happy relationship to bring the point home.

Bottom line is she made sure to not put herself in a questionable situation of being alone with him or hiding anything from you and you want to be a Monday night quarterback on what she should have done differently. If you were in a situation where you had to reject someone that had some sort of power to make your life very difficult who didn’t directly ask you out, and at no point did you meet that person one on one or hide the information from your significant other and you set the person straight on your relationship status, I don’t think you would appreciate your SO faulting you and saying you did it all wrong.

OP

I'm not sure how you read that from what I wrote--from the replies sure, but not from me.

Yes, the guy was the jerk. I now more than ever believe he was asking her out. He just did it in such a way as to put her in a bind--he didn't really ask me out and it would be awkward to say no to "just a talk" with a guy who I will see on sidelines at daughter's games. The guy did that by design to get her to go; and to avoid being turned down.

Bringing a friend is a double-edge thing. It shows she knew this was not just a date. Why bring a friend to just a talk with a buffy? But, it did send the guy a signal that she didn't want this to be a date.

Do I think this was the best way to handle it? I'm NOT second guessing what she did. She handled it the way she handled it. So there goes your point.

What I asked at the outset was and remains:

A. Was this really just a guy asking to talk with her as a friend, or was he asking her out?

B. Should I be concerned about her going on a date-non-date period? It does seem problematic to me that she knew on some level this guy wasn't just asking to be friends (even if that is her intent) and she went out with him anyway--even if she took steps to keep it a friend thing. I wouldn't do that to her. I just wouldn't.
C. Am I over-reacting to this by being concerned? I'm not making a big fuss, I'm trying to be introspective and gauge my own reaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why women have to tread more lightly with men has been explained by 8 different people, but there are none so blind as them that will not see.

Every man has been repeatedly rejected by women - usually clearly and firmly, but sometimes brutally - which is why we don’t believe this bullshit about how the OPs girlfriend was “treading lightly” with the guy. A woman is just not going to meet a guy if she’s not interested. We’re not blind to this explanation, we simply don’t believe it because it’s not true.

Of course, men know better than women because men have met women. Women are just women, what would they know about being women?

Yes, we do know better. We deal with you. We know how cold and ruthless you are when you're truly not interested or when you used to be interested but are done with us now.

What you are doing in this thread is making up excuses for the misbehavior of another woman - a very common thing (see: in-group bias, gender preferences in).

There's absolutely nothing that I could add to this thread that could top this comedy gold, so I'll see myself out. ::chef's kiss::

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something doesn't add up. She was intrigued by the offer, which is why she accepted and brought the friend to justify actually following through with it. If she were not interested she would have shut the door instantly.

OP

I agree and asked her about this.

Here is her answer--obvi paraphrasing.

"In my marriage I ended up with no friends of my own. We had lots of friends as a couple but I didn't really have my own. In divorcing, I am determined to have a cadre of my own friends, men and women. When this guy called, I figured he is in my circle. I see him at games and such. He could be a friend."

This is both why she said she wanted to go; And, why she said she didn't invite me to go with.

I offer that without comment, not that I don't have feelings around it.

By the way, I'm all for her having a circle of friends that she sees, talks to and so on--men and women. I wouldn't want to take that away from her. I think it is good for her and us. I want her to be happy.

That said, what I asked here remains my concern: was this "date-not-date" really a friend thing? Should I be concerned about it?

I'm good with her doing friend things with guys who aren't trying to f*^k her, but if the guy wants that, it doesn't seem like a fiend thing to me--and not something I can go along with.

You should do her a favor and break up. Every update you look like a worse boyfriend. She's being incredibly honest and transparent with you and you are determined to believe she is a liar and a sneak. She deserves better.

If you think "she's allowed to have male friends, but not male friends that are attracted to her" is a reasonable rule or one that you have the right to enunciate or enforce for your "gregarious, fun, vibrant" girlfriend, you are an idiot. Men will be attracted to her for the same reasons you are. The question is whether you trust her, and despite her almost pathological honesty with you, it's clear you do not.

Her behavior was not pathologically honest, it was fundamentally dishonest. She is trying to pretend she wasn't interested in this guy. She is trying to keep her options open (shop for a new guy while keeping the existing guy). She can't be trusted. If she wants to have a new boyfriend, fine, she can go do that by herself after OP breaks up with her.

The only thing wrong with what OP is doing is that he's giving her so many opportunities to put a positive spin on her behavior so that he doesn't have to bite the bullet and break up with her. You can save yourself a whole lot of future pain by pulling the plug now before she does actually f**k some other guy. Which is going to happen soon. You've been dating for two years, the magic has clearly worn off for her if not for you. You'd be a lot better off putting your effort into finding a new relationship than trying to salvage this one.

[Anonymous]

If you think "she's allowed to have male friends, but not male friends that are attracted to her" is a reasonable rule or one that you have the right to enunciate or enforce for your "gregarious, fun, vibrant" girlfriend, you are an idiot. Men will be attracted to her for the same reasons you are. The question is whether you trust her, and despite her almost pathological honesty with you, it's clear you do not.

OP

Actually there you have it wrong. What I am trying to figure out is not whether this"rule" which isn't a rule is reasonable.

What I am trying to figure out is:

A. Was the guy actually asking her out on a date or asking her to go talk as friends? That is a big difference. Bringing a friend was a smart move--agreed-but it also shows that she herself was concerned and knew on some level he wasn't really asking her to go talk about dating.

B. Assuming this was a date, should I be concerned that she went out with a guy who she knew was asking her on a date?

C. This isn't about controlling her behavior. At the end of the day it is about what I want in a relationship. Do I want to go out with a woman who I am in an exclusive relationship with, planning a future with, who goes on a sort-of-date with a guy who it seems she knows doesn't want to be friends but wants a lot more?

So for all your attacks on me, please answer this: If you were in a committed, long-term relationship, would you be OK with your partner gong out with a woman/man, when your partner knows full well the woman/man doesn't want to be friends but wants a lot more? SO much so that he/zhe had to take a host of steps to prevent the date from getting the wrong (actual) message of agreeing to go in the first place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

I agree with the advice to let it go. That is my plan.

What I am now wondering is:

Was I wrong to be uncomfortable about it?

She was a bit miffed at me for being uncomfortable around it. Is that fair?

Again, thanks everyone.

I posted that women spend their whole lives trying to manage men's feelings while letting them down. Sounds like, instead of trying to figure out how SHE feels and understate nd why she did what she did, you're focused entirely on how you feel and what you want her to do to manage your feelings too. Do you get it yet?

Oh c’mon. NP and DW here. It’s totally understandable that OP would be uncomfortable with this scenario. And it doesn’t sound like he’s controlling in general. To me, the red flag is the GF getting miffed at OP for expressing his discomfort.

OP, how did you communicate your feelings? Were you overly accusatory or angry? I’m trying to understand why she’s upset. Also - does she intend to get together with him again, or was she at least hoping to? Is that why she’s miffed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you think "she's allowed to have male friends, but not male friends that are attracted to her" is a reasonable rule or one that you have the right to enunciate or enforce for your "gregarious, fun, vibrant" girlfriend, you are an idiot. Men will be attracted to her for the same reasons you are. The question is whether you trust her, and despite her almost pathological honesty with you, it's clear you do not.

OP

Actually there you have it wrong. What I am trying to figure out is not whether this"rule" which isn't a rule is reasonable.

What I am trying to figure out is:

A. Was the guy actually asking her out on a date or asking her to go talk as friends? That is a big difference. Bringing a friend was a smart move--agreed-but it also shows that she herself was concerned and knew on some level he wasn't really asking her to go talk about dating. He was testing the waters and framing it in a way where it could be a date or not a date. She solidified it as "not a date" with the friend and talking about you. Remember, it's not like she gave this guy her number. He got it off the team list and reached out to her unprompted. The way she handled it keeps him from being rejected/upset and allows her to see if he could possibly be a friend. She's going to see him in the future because their kids are on a team together.

B. Assuming this was a date, should I be concerned that she went out with a guy who she knew was asking her on a date? It wasn't a date, because she made sure of that. That you continue to be concerned is a sign of your mistrust, not anything she did wrong.

C. This isn't about controlling her behavior. At the end of the day it is about what I want in a relationship. Do I want to go out with a woman who I am in an exclusive relationship with, planning a future with, who goes on a sort-of-date with a guy who it seems she knows doesn't want to be friends but wants a lot more? Sure sounds like you don't, but you're still framing her actions in the worst possible light. That's why you shouldn't be in a relationship with her.

So for all your attacks on me, please answer this: If you were in a committed, long-term relationship, would you be OK with your partner gong out with a woman/man, when your partner knows full well the woman/man doesn't want to be friends but wants a lot more? SO much so that he/zhe had to take a host of steps to prevent the date from getting the wrong (actual) message of agreeing to go in the first place? I am a woman in a relationship with a man so this scenario would likely not happen to me for a number of reasons. But to create a roughly analogous situation: if my husband was put in this position by someone at his job who could potentially make his life difficult if he let her down directly, and he did what your GF did, bringing a coworker to make it about work, mentioning me and our happy relationship, and telling me about it and answering my questions, I would be okay with it. And to the extent I was bothered by it, I would be bothered that someone put him in that position, not how he handled it. But I love and trust my husband and don't hold it against him when other people also notice he's a catch.



I'm legitimately exhausted by you and the misogynists in this thread at this point and hope your GF finds someone new. No more posts from me on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She got asked out on a date that he tried to frame as "not a date" (just wants advice!) and turned it into not-a-date for real (bringing a girlfriend, talking about her boyfriend). I think that your discomfort makes sense but also that you might not understand, as a guy, the layers women have to navigate to keep guys from feeling rejected when you reject them. Their kids are on a team together so she has to see him in the future and if he gets his feelings hurt he could make it extremely uncomfortable. He could badmouth her to other parents, harass her when he sees her, stalk her, get violent, none of it is out of the realm of reality.

This is total garbage. A woman who is not attracted to you will not give a shit about your feewings when she rejects you, let alone go on a “not a date” with you. You’ll get the big nope, go away, talk to the hand. Every guy has been there. No woman has time to go on “not dates” with every guy who asks her out just to make sure he doesn’t get all obnoxious about his rejection.

The fact is, she went on this date because she WAS attracted to this guy, and was investigating to see whether she wanted to date this guy instead of the OP. She’s trying to maintain plausible deniability about it being a date so she doesn’t lose her current boyfriend while she test-drives a possible new boyfriend. The OP is a fool if he puts up with this. Trust your feelings, man. Your gut is telling you she can’t be trusted, and your gut is right.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She got asked out on a date that he tried to frame as "not a date" (just wants advice!) and turned it into not-a-date for real (bringing a girlfriend, talking about her boyfriend). I think that your discomfort makes sense but also that you might not understand, as a guy, the layers women have to navigate to keep guys from feeling rejected when you reject them. Their kids are on a team together so she has to see him in the future and if he gets his feelings hurt he could make it extremely uncomfortable. He could badmouth her to other parents, harass her when he sees her, stalk her, get violent, none of it is out of the realm of reality.

This is total garbage. A woman who is not attracted to you will not give a shit about your feewings when she rejects you, let alone go on a “not a date” with you. You’ll get the big nope, go away, talk to the hand. Every guy has been there. No woman has time to go on “not dates” with every guy who asks her out just to make sure he doesn’t get all obnoxious about his rejection.

The fact is, she went on this date because she WAS attracted to this guy, and was investigating to see whether she wanted to date this guy instead of the OP. She’s trying to maintain plausible deniability about it being a date so she doesn’t lose her current boyfriend while she test-drives a possible new boyfriend. The OP is a fool if he puts up with this. Trust your feelings, man. Your gut is telling you she can’t be trusted, and your gut is right.

+1000

OP, you've been told this several times, so hopefully you've received the message.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something doesn't add up. She was intrigued by the offer, which is why she accepted and brought the friend to justify actually following through with it. If she were not interested she would have shut the door instantly.

OP

I agree and asked her about this.

Here is her answer--obvi paraphrasing.

"In my marriage I ended up with no friends of my own. We had lots of friends as a couple but I didn't really have my own. In divorcing, I am determined to have a cadre of my own friends, men and women. When this guy called, I figured he is in my circle. I see him at games and such. He could be a friend."

This is both why she said she wanted to go; And, why she said she didn't invite me to go with.

I offer that without comment, not that I don't have feelings around it.

By the way, I'm all for her having a circle of friends that she sees, talks to and so on--men and women. I wouldn't want to take that away from her. I think it is good for her and us. I want her to be happy.

That said, what I asked here remains my concern: was this "date-not-date" really a friend thing? Should I be concerned about it?

I'm good with her doing friend things with guys who aren't trying to f*^k her, but if the guy wants that, it doesn't seem like a fiend thing to me--and not something I can go along with.

You should do her a favor and break up. Every update you look like a worse boyfriend. She's being incredibly honest and transparent with you and you are determined to believe she is a liar and a sneak. She deserves better.

If you think "she's allowed to have male friends, but not male friends that are attracted to her" is a reasonable rule or one that you have the right to enunciate or enforce for your "gregarious, fun, vibrant" girlfriend, you are an idiot. Men will be attracted to her for the same reasons you are. The question is whether you trust her, and despite her almost pathological honesty with you, it's clear you do not.

BS she’s back pedaling her way out of it with all her talk and reasoning. Totally inappropriate. Should have declined. Of course the not a date guy wants to bone her. She admitted there is interest. Everything else is saving face. This is beginning of the end for OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you would have been cool with your boyfriend going on a date with another woman to talk about dating?

NP here. The guy didn’t ask her out on a date, he asked to meet her as a friend and is someone she sees in her social circle for her child versus it being a random person. To be honest, he was the jerk in this scenario because he wasn’t honest that he was asking her on a date, he did zero intel if she was dating before asking her out “as friends”, and didn’t make it easy for her to say no and avoid it being awkward because of the way he asked. In this situation it shifted the burden to your girlfriend to figure out how to let him down easy, scramble to recruit a friend to help all while trying not to cause friction in your relationship. I mean darn, she was just minding her business and trying to watch her kid participate in the activity. Bringing a friend to the outing was the best way to “tell him that you aren’t interested without telling him that you aren’t interested” and then she explicit told him that she is in a happy relationship to bring the point home.

Bottom line is she made sure to not put herself in a questionable situation of being alone with him or hiding anything from you and you want to be a Monday night quarterback on what she should have done differently. If you were in a situation where you had to reject someone that had some sort of power to make your life very difficult who didn’t directly ask you out, and at no point did you meet that person one on one or hide the information from your significant other and you set the person straight on your relationship status, I don’t think you would appreciate your SO faulting you and saying you did it all wrong.

OP

I'm not sure how you read that from what I wrote--from the replies sure, but not from me.

Yes, the guy was the jerk. I now more than ever believe he was asking her out. He just did it in such a way as to put her in a bind--he didn't really ask me out and it would be awkward to say no to "just a talk" with a guy who I will see on sidelines at daughter's games. The guy did that by design to get her to go; and to avoid being turned down.

Bringing a friend is a double-edge thing. It shows she knew this was not just a date. Why bring a friend to just a talk with a buffy? But, it did send the guy a signal that she didn't want this to be a date.

Do I think this was the best way to handle it? I'm NOT second guessing what she did. She handled it the way she handled it. So there goes your point.

What I asked at the outset was and remains:

A. Was this really just a guy asking to talk with her as a friend, or was he asking her out?

B. Should I be concerned about her going on a date-non-date period? It does seem problematic to me that she knew on some level this guy wasn't just asking to be friends (even if that is her intent) and she went out with him anyway--even if she took steps to keep it a friend thing. I wouldn't do that to her. I just wouldn't.
C. Am I over-reacting to this by being concerned? I'm not making a big fuss, I'm trying to be introspective and gauge my own reaction.

A. He is likely interested in her, and was pretty much asking her out, but in a way that allowed him to save face or avoid awkwardness. Did the friend who gave him her contact information let him know she was in a relationship? Did he know before he reached out to her? Regardless, his intentions aren’t really that significant.

B. There’s just no way to know. She did bring a friend and clearly communicated her relationship status. She didn’t let him think he had a chance with her. Are there other red flags in your relationship that are causing you concern? If everything is otherwise great, I think you can let it go.

C. You are not overreacting and you should be able to communicate your feelings to your GF, as long as you are doing it in a healthy, productive way. You’ve been together two years and if it’s true you aren’t usually controlling or jealous, then she should hear you out without becoming defensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She got asked out on a date that he tried to frame as "not a date" (just wants advice!) and turned it into not-a-date for real (bringing a girlfriend, talking about her boyfriend). I think that your discomfort makes sense but also that you might not understand, as a guy, the layers women have to navigate to keep guys from feeling rejected when you reject them. Their kids are on a team together so she has to see him in the future and if he gets his feelings hurt he could make it extremely uncomfortable. He could badmouth her to other parents, harass her when he sees her, stalk her, get violent, none of it is out of the realm of reality.

This is total garbage. A woman who is not attracted to you will not give a shit about your feewings when she rejects you, let alone go on a “not a date” with you. You’ll get the big nope, go away, talk to the hand. Every guy has been there. No woman has time to go on “not dates” with every guy who asks her out just to make sure he doesn’t get all obnoxious about his rejection.

The fact is, she went on this date because she WAS attracted to this guy, and was investigating to see whether she wanted to date this guy instead of the OP. She’s trying to maintain plausible deniability about it being a date so she doesn’t lose her current boyfriend while she test-drives a possible new boyfriend. The OP is a fool if he puts up with this. Trust your feelings, man. Your gut is telling you she can’t be trusted, and your gut is right.

+1000

OP, you've been told this several times, so hopefully you've received the message.

P.S. This is textbook monkey-branching.

[Anonymous]

Just to add - as a people-pleasing female, sometimes to my own detriment, I have to disagree that it would’ve been hard for her to outright reject him without fearing negative consequences or awkwardness. I would’ve just been gracious and kind when I declined: “I understand why you thought to ask me but I haven’t been single in a long time - I’m in a rserious relationship. If you’d like I can try to connect you with one of my single friends who might have some good tips.” So, I’d take his request at face value and offer him an alternative, but no way would I go on a date with him.

Stop trying to make OP a villain. His gut isn’t misleading him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just to add - as a people-pleasing female, sometimes to my own detriment, I have to disagree that it would’ve been hard for her to outright reject him without fearing negative consequences or awkwardness. I would’ve just been gracious and kind when I declined: “I understand why you thought to ask me but I haven’t been single in a long time - I’m in a rserious relationship. If you’d like I can try to connect you with one of my single friends who might have some good tips.” So, I’d take his request at face value and offer him an alternative, but no way would I go on a date with him.

Stop trying to make OP a villain. His gut isn’t misleading him.

Except he asked to meet her as a friend and she is actively looking for friends. She doesn't have to say no, she wasn't cheating on OP or trying to. And she went the extra step of bringing a third person and talking up her boyfriend. OP isn't a villain so much as extremely insecure and in the process of torpedoing his relationship over this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women spend their whole lives figuring out how to gently let men down without making it awkward (or even deadly). Men can be really nasty if you don't, and she has a relationship to maintain here for her daughter's sake.

This was my first thought, especially if you have ZERO other concerns
about fidelity in the relationship. I’d probably cave and meet him too. Although I would say for coffee not dinner. If only because my schedule does not allow for that.