Please tell me, 42yo mom of two young kids, the realities of divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gosh, OP, you can't say you haven't tried. He sounds depressed.

You get one shot at this life. I'm someone who rallies for posters to do everything they can to stay together. But it sounds like you may be at the point where it would be healthier to cut your losses and move on towards finding happiness.

What does he think about separating?

thanks. i certainly have contributed to the situation, i have had to figure that out for myself. H won't tell me things i've done that are good or bad, i get no feedback on my behavior. so it is all conjecture on my part through individual therapy the role i've played. the guy just won't TALK about anything that matters. he wasn't always like this. clearly. i am a very emotional person and i would have never fallen in love with somebody who wasn't giving something of themselves. a one way relationship is pretty lonely.

he doesn't want to separate. he was divorced before we met (no kids), so a second divorce would likely crush him. not that it won't crush me, either.

Men have emotions too. My guess is that because "he wasn't always like this" and because you are "clearly... a very emotional person" you have done things that have deeply hurt his feelings and rather than have conflict with you he has withdrawn from you to avoid getting his feeling hurt even more. My guess is that you do not support and respect him in the way he needs. He probably does not feel emotionally safe with you. He probably feels that if he shares his feelings that you will, in some way, look down on him for having those feelings. Because sex appears to be a main issue for you here and because he stopped initiating sex with you my guess is that you made him feel bad for wanting to have sex with you and now rather than feeling bad (e.g., chasing you and getting rejected) he simply doesn't chase after you.

I'm wondering if you has some instance of early childhood trauma or a very religious upbringing that makes you prudish in some way or judgmental about sex.

OP here. I am sure the first half of your post is true but if DH does not tell me these things I have no way of knowing how and when I have hurt him. I can't work on those things if he does not tell me. That is his responsibility that he has shirked.

Regarding the second half of your post...what? I totally don't understand it. At all. My DH is the prude, not me. Not at all. I never turned him down. I always wanted to have sex. He was the one that stopped initiating and left me to initiate the vast majority of our sexual encounters. So I have no idea how you got to where you did?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wait a minute, it's been 7 years that you've been hanging in there but you have a kindergarten-aged child? How can that be?

What a dumb question. Are you an idiot?

Well, it'd either be IVF or it'd be adultery. Now if OP had a baby with another man while she was still married to her husband, don't you think that'd make things a teeny bit different?

I don't really see the need to be defensive about privacy when you're asking the Internet to be a free marriage counselor.

I'm the one who asked. My point was if things started going south 7 years ago, to the point where you were just hanging in there, how do you have a 5-year-old? An "accident" I could almost understand, but I don't understand going through IVF (BTDT) to create a child with someone with whom you're just hanging in there. Maybe things weren't that bad 5 years ago?

OP here. Things weren't that bad then. They weren't great but not horrible. And the problems we had I blamed on being new parents and exhausted. I thought eventually we'd find our way out of it. We never did and things snowballed to now.

That makes sense. Sorry things went downhill.

really?? if you are honest with yourself did you put you husband second behind the children? Often wives go full-on mom mode after kids. This means the kids come first in everything and the mom also starts treating the husband like he can't do anything right when it comes to the kids (e.g., holds them wrong, feeds them wrong, does too much of this, to little of that, etc.). The mom spends all her time focused on the kids and doesn't give the husband any attention and affection. This makes the husband feel unwanted and unneeded. Just think of all the jokes and stereotypes of the "stupid" husband/father. My guess is that you did these things and this is the consequence.

[Anonymous]

really?? if you are honest with yourself did you put you husband second behind the children? Often wives go full-on mom mode after kids. This means the kids come first in everything and the mom also starts treating the husband like he can't do anything right when it comes to the kids (e.g., holds them wrong, feeds them wrong, does too much of this, to little of that, etc.). The mom spends all her time focused on the kids and doesn't give the husband any attention and affection. This makes the husband feel unwanted and unneeded. Just think of all the jokes and stereotypes of the "stupid" husband/father. My guess is that you did these things and this is the consequence.

Look, right now, it doesn't matter if OP made a joke, or didn't treat her husband perfectly, although I have to say she sounds self aware and willing to shoulder her share of the blame. What matters is that she's trying to reach her husband, trying for intimacy, for discussion, she's actively trying to make their marriage work again and he is not, which is the ultimately position of holding all the cards and taking none of the responsibility.

I'm so sorry OP. I hope you guys can find your way back to each other. I was once in a relationship like this--its horrible to be lonely in a supposedly intimate relationship. He completely shut down, physically and emotionally. It mostly had to do with incredible stress and self esteem from his life and a messed up father figure, but it profoundly affected us and how I felt about myself. I left, but we had no kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gosh, OP, you can't say you haven't tried. He sounds depressed.

You get one shot at this life. I'm someone who rallies for posters to do everything they can to stay together. But it sounds like you may be at the point where it would be healthier to cut your losses and move on towards finding happiness.

What does he think about separating?

thanks. i certainly have contributed to the situation, i have had to figure that out for myself. H won't tell me things i've done that are good or bad, i get no feedback on my behavior. so it is all conjecture on my part through individual therapy the role i've played. the guy just won't TALK about anything that matters. he wasn't always like this. clearly. i am a very emotional person and i would have never fallen in love with somebody who wasn't giving something of themselves. a one way relationship is pretty lonely.

he doesn't want to separate. he was divorced before we met (no kids), so a second divorce would likely crush him. not that it won't crush me, either.

Men have emotions too. My guess is that because "he wasn't always like this" and because you are "clearly... a very emotional person" you have done things that have deeply hurt his feelings and rather than have conflict with you he has withdrawn from you to avoid getting his feeling hurt even more. My guess is that you do not support and respect him in the way he needs. He probably does not feel emotionally safe with you. He probably feels that if he shares his feelings that you will, in some way, look down on him for having those feelings. Because sex appears to be a main issue for you here and because he stopped initiating sex with you my guess is that you made him feel bad for wanting to have sex with you and now rather than feeling bad (e.g., chasing you and getting rejected) he simply doesn't chase after you.

I'm wondering if you has some instance of early childhood trauma or a very religious upbringing that makes you prudish in some way or judgmental about sex.

OP here. I am sure the first half of your post is true but if DH does not tell me these things I have no way of knowing how and when I have hurt him. I can't work on those things if he does not tell me. That is his responsibility that he has shirked.

Regarding the second half of your post...what? I totally don't understand it. At all. My DH is the prude, not me. Not at all. I never turned him down. I always wanted to have sex. He was the one that stopped initiating and left me to initiate the vast majority of our sexual encounters. So I have no idea how you got to where you did?

It really doesn't sound like OP is willing to meet her husband half way... she is looking for support in her decision to leave because it looks like she really wants to blame him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

really?? if you are honest with yourself did you put you husband second behind the children? Often wives go full-on mom mode after kids. This means the kids come first in everything and the mom also starts treating the husband like he can't do anything right when it comes to the kids (e.g., holds them wrong, feeds them wrong, does too much of this, to little of that, etc.). The mom spends all her time focused on the kids and doesn't give the husband any attention and affection. This makes the husband feel unwanted and unneeded. Just think of all the jokes and stereotypes of the "stupid" husband/father. My guess is that you did these things and this is the consequence.

Look, right now, it doesn't matter if OP made a joke, or didn't treat her husband perfectly, although I have to say she sounds self aware and willing to shoulder her share of the blame. What matters is that she's trying to reach her husband, trying for intimacy, for discussion, she's actively trying to make their marriage work again and he is not, which is the ultimately position of holding all the cards and taking none of the responsibility.

I'm so sorry OP. I hope you guys can find your way back to each other. I was once in a relationship like this--its horrible to be lonely in a supposedly intimate relationship. He completely shut down, physically and emotionally. It mostly had to do with incredible stress and self esteem from his life and a messed up father figure, but it profoundly affected us and how I felt about myself. I left, but we had no kids.

OP here. Thank you for this.

While I appreciate most of the posts here, I am getting frustrated that people are (maybe conveniently) not reading that I am despair ate for feedback from my DH. He has hurt me in the past, and I am sure that I have hurt him too. I am being open and honest with him but he is not doing the same. I am more than willing to work on my issues that he has with me but only he can tell me what they were/are and what exactly he needs from me. If he doesn't, nothing can ever change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

really?? if you are honest with yourself did you put you husband second behind the children? Often wives go full-on mom mode after kids. This means the kids come first in everything and the mom also starts treating the husband like he can't do anything right when it comes to the kids (e.g., holds them wrong, feeds them wrong, does too much of this, to little of that, etc.). The mom spends all her time focused on the kids and doesn't give the husband any attention and affection. This makes the husband feel unwanted and unneeded. Just think of all the jokes and stereotypes of the "stupid" husband/father. My guess is that you did these things and this is the consequence.

Look, right now, it doesn't matter if OP made a joke, or didn't treat her husband perfectly, although I have to say she sounds self aware and willing to shoulder her share of the blame. What matters is that she's trying to reach her husband, trying for intimacy, for discussion, she's actively trying to make their marriage work again and he is not, which is the ultimately position of holding all the cards and taking none of the responsibility.

I'm so sorry OP. I hope you guys can find your way back to each other. I was once in a relationship like this--its horrible to be lonely in a supposedly intimate relationship. He completely shut down, physically and emotionally. It mostly had to do with incredible stress and self esteem from his life and a messed up father figure, but it profoundly affected us and how I felt about myself. I left, but we had no kids.

It does matter because it is a matter of trust. My guess is that she has done things which her husband considers a breach of trust. My guess is that he has told her about it also but she doesn't want to admit (can't understand or doesn't want to understand) just how hurtful her acts where that broke the trust. She might have even disregarded the significance of the acts which hurt her husbands feelings. Because she is unwilling to take responsibility for that her husband doesn't want to put himself in the position to be hurt again. So yes, it does matter right now because until she changes that behavior she can't demonstrate she is worthy of him trusting that she will protect his emotions if he open up to her again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. thanks for the quick replies.

yes, we had sexual/emotional intimacy the first two years of dating and first year of marriage. then things got wonky. H stopped initiating sex. we went to a sex therapist. that helped for about a year. wasn't awesome, but was good enough, and we were still emotionally close. then stuff happened in life...health challenges, miscarriages, kids. he retreated about 7 years ago and won't resurface.

to the PP who said she is more at peace with her situation...how did you get that way? i was tolerating it but i am finally just devastated by the whole situation. it isn't just no/low sex and cuddling...he does not share himself emotionally either. i give of myself over and over and often times i am met with crickets.

thanks to the PP who gave her input about the realities of divorce. how long did you hang in there? it has been 7 years for me.

Wait a minute, it's been 7 years that you've been hanging in there but you have a kindergarten-aged child? How can that be?

What a dumb question. Are you an idiot?

Well, it'd either be IVF or it'd be adultery. Now if OP had a baby with another man while she was still married to her husband, don't you think that'd make things a teeny bit different?

I don't really see the need to be defensive about privacy when you're asking the Internet to be a free marriage counselor.

I'm the one who asked. My point was if things started going south 7 years ago, to the point where you were just hanging in there, how do you have a 5-year-old? An "accident" I could almost understand, but I don't understand going through IVF (BTDT) to create a child with someone with whom you're just hanging in there. Maybe things weren't that bad 5 years ago?

OP here. Things weren't that bad then. They weren't great but not horrible. And the problems we had I blamed on being new parents and exhausted. I thought eventually we'd find our way out of it. We never did and things snowballed to now.

Hey OP. I'm one of the many children of divorce that popped in to say that your kids would be just fine. Still think that but adding an addendum. When you remarry, pick wisely and don't be like these jerks http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485240.page

Can we get away from maxims like "your kids will be fine if you divorce" vs. "your kids will be devastated"

Kids reactions to divorce vary depending on a host of factors, including their tolerance for change and how the divorced parents treat each other, to name examples. None of us have any clue how OPs children will fare. All any of us can say is that divorce is sometimes the better of two bad outcomes for children, i.e. it may be better for kids to split custody with two parents who argued and hated each other but are reasonably happy with their new relationships. As opposed to kids who are affected dramatically, either through their own idiosyncratic mental health or that they had no idea mom was emotionally distant from dad because they parented well together. Nothing in OPs description of her parenting relationship with her husband suggests her kids are adveresly affected by her lonliness. My DW doesn't have sex with me as much as I would like, sometimes I feel really lonely. My kids have no clue. It's not their issue.

FWIW, my parents divorced. I am fine, professionally successful, married, kids, etc. I have almost no relationship with my parents now - their fighting didn't stop after the divorce.

Best of luck OP, and if you do divorce, find a way to get along with you ex at all costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

really?? if you are honest with yourself did you put you husband second behind the children? Often wives go full-on mom mode after kids. This means the kids come first in everything and the mom also starts treating the husband like he can't do anything right when it comes to the kids (e.g., holds them wrong, feeds them wrong, does too much of this, to little of that, etc.). The mom spends all her time focused on the kids and doesn't give the husband any attention and affection. This makes the husband feel unwanted and unneeded. Just think of all the jokes and stereotypes of the "stupid" husband/father. My guess is that you did these things and this is the consequence.

Look, right now, it doesn't matter if OP made a joke, or didn't treat her husband perfectly, although I have to say she sounds self aware and willing to shoulder her share of the blame. What matters is that she's trying to reach her husband, trying for intimacy, for discussion, she's actively trying to make their marriage work again and he is not, which is the ultimately position of holding all the cards and taking none of the responsibility.

I'm so sorry OP. I hope you guys can find your way back to each other. I was once in a relationship like this--its horrible to be lonely in a supposedly intimate relationship. He completely shut down, physically and emotionally. It mostly had to do with incredible stress and self esteem from his life and a messed up father figure, but it profoundly affected us and how I felt about myself. I left, but we had no kids.

It does matter because it is a matter of trust. My guess is that she has done things which her husband considers a breach of trust. My guess is that he has told her about it also but she doesn't want to admit (can't understand or doesn't want to understand) just how hurtful her acts where that broke the trust. She might have even disregarded the significance of the acts which hurt her husbands feelings. Because she is unwilling to take responsibility for that her husband doesn't want to put himself in the position to be hurt again. So yes, it does matter right now because until she changes that behavior she can't demonstrate she is worthy of him trusting that she will protect his emotions if he open up to her again.

Why is it hard for you to understand that DH does not talk about his feelings? At all???? He has never once told me that I have hurt him or treated him badly. That is absolutely his responsibility. I am not perfect, nor am I a mind reader. Does he not have any responsibility at all? I think you are projecting a bunch of BS my way. I have repeatedly tried to explain and answer questions here but if you don't believe it than that says more about you than me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For better or for worse, right? This just comes off a little first world problem-ish.

Yes. People in the first world still get to have problems. I think you misunderstand the proper use of that ironic phrase. Feeling alone in a marriage is not a petty issue. Your local Starbucks running out of chocolate syrup is a petty issue.

To be fair, running out of chocolate is not a petty issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. thanks for the quick replies.

yes, we had sexual/emotional intimacy the first two years of dating and first year of marriage. then things got wonky. H stopped initiating sex. we went to a sex therapist. that helped for about a year. wasn't awesome, but was good enough, and we were still emotionally close. then stuff happened in life...health challenges, miscarriages, kids. he retreated about 7 years ago and won't resurface.

to the PP who said she is more at peace with her situation...how did you get that way? i was tolerating it but i am finally just devastated by the whole situation. it isn't just no/low sex and cuddling...he does not share himself emotionally either. i give of myself over and over and often times i am met with crickets.

thanks to the PP who gave her input about the realities of divorce. how long did you hang in there? it has been 7 years for me.

Wait a minute, it's been 7 years that you've been hanging in there but you have a kindergarten-aged child? How can that be?

What a dumb question. Are you an idiot?

Well, it'd either be IVF or it'd be adultery. Now if OP had a baby with another man while she was still married to her husband, don't you think that'd make things a teeny bit different?

I don't really see the need to be defensive about privacy when you're asking the Internet to be a free marriage counselor.

I'm the one who asked. My point was if things started going south 7 years ago, to the point where you were just hanging in there, how do you have a 5-year-old? An "accident" I could almost understand, but I don't understand going through IVF (BTDT) to create a child with someone with whom you're just hanging in there. Maybe things weren't that bad 5 years ago?

OP here. Things weren't that bad then. They weren't great but not horrible. And the problems we had I blamed on being new parents and exhausted. I thought eventually we'd find our way out of it. We never did and things snowballed to now.

Hey OP. I'm one of the many children of divorce that popped in to say that your kids would be just fine. Still think that but adding an addendum. When you remarry, pick wisely and don't be like these jerks http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/485240.page

Can we get away from maxims like "your kids will be fine if you divorce" vs. "your kids will be devastated"

Kids reactions to divorce vary depending on a host of factors, including their tolerance for change and how the divorced parents treat each other, to name examples. None of us have any clue how OPs children will fare. All any of us can say is that divorce is sometimes the better of two bad outcomes for children, i.e. it may be better for kids to split custody with two parents who argued and hated each other but are reasonably happy with their new relationships. As opposed to kids who are affected dramatically, either through their own idiosyncratic mental health or that they had no idea mom was emotionally distant from dad because they parented well together. Nothing in OPs description of her parenting relationship with her husband suggests her kids are adveresly affected by her lonliness. My DW doesn't have sex with me as much as I would like, sometimes I feel really lonely. My kids have no clue. It's not their issue.

FWIW, my parents divorced. I am fine, professionally successful, married, kids, etc. I have almost no relationship with my parents now - their fighting didn't stop after the divorce.

Best of luck OP, and if you do divorce, find a way to get along with you ex at all costs.

I am the PP and my parents obviously are divorced also extremely acrimoniously although I have good relationships with both of them. While I agree that it is impossible to know if a child's specific mental state might be particularly incompatible with divorced parents I think the reality is that bad things happen to everyone, you have to deal with it eventually. If your parents are focused on the children making it through the divorce intact than they should be ok. And if they aren't then the kid probably has larger issues with being able to handle upheaval and change and distress that need to be addressed.

I also really disagree that your kids would have no idea if you were lonely all the time and emotionally distant. You should know that yourself. Kids aren't stupid, just because you know how to put on a happy face when you're out with them doesn't mean they don't pick up on things in their own home. That's not saying you should get divorced or anything if its ok with your wife and things aren't really that bad but kids notice, they notice sadness, they notice anger, they notice everything.

[Anonymous]

OP - sorry for what you are going through. What would your husband say if you said you were considering divorce? Or were considering an open marriage? He doesn't like talking about his feelings, but he has to if you ask those questions.

[Anonymous]

OP--I'm so sorry you are going through this and I can feel your frustration through the computer. I just want you to know at least one person in internet-land feels your pain.

It sounds like a friend of mine who's DH was checked out because he wanted out but didn't have the nerve to tell her. So he just had an affair instead. --Divorced

But it could also be like another friend who's DH was just so damn depressed he didn't care about anything. She struggled for years for him to get help and he never did. --Divorced

At this point you have nothing to lose. I would write him a letter (so he can process it in his own time). Tell him you miss what you used to have. Then use examples and how that made you feel--I miss how we snuggled on the couch when we watched TV. It made me feel so secure and loved. I miss how we used to laugh about XYZ. It made me feel like we are a team; you and me against the world. Do not complain. Just point out the good times/things about him and how they made you feel. Then ask, "Do you miss that too?" Then tell him, "I want to be married to you, I love you, I want what we had. Please tell me how to get back there again. I will do whatever we need to do to make our marriage better and stronger. If not for us, for out DC."

After you've given it to him and you know he has read it. Read it out loud in counseling. Let the Therapist help guide him through how he feels about it and maybe help him find his words.

Good Luck!

PS--Have you looked into the weekend retreats I mentioned earlier in this post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP--I'm so sorry you are going through this and I can feel your frustration through the computer. I just want you to know at least one person in internet-land feels your pain.

It sounds like a friend of mine who's DH was checked out because he wanted out but didn't have the nerve to tell her. So he just had an affair instead. --Divorced

But it could also be like another friend who's DH was just so damn depressed he didn't care about anything. She struggled for years for him to get help and he never did. --Divorced

At this point you have nothing to lose. I would write him a letter (so he can process it in his own time). Tell him you miss what you used to have. Then use examples and how that made you feel--I miss how we snuggled on the couch when we watched TV. It made me feel so secure and loved. I miss how we used to laugh about XYZ. It made me feel like we are a team; you and me against the world. Do not complain. Just point out the good times/things about him and how they made you feel. Then ask, "Do you miss that too?" Then tell him, "I want to be married to you, I love you, I want what we had. Please tell me how to get back there again. I will do whatever we need to do to make our marriage better and stronger. If not for us, for out DC."

After you've given it to him and you know he has read it. Read it out loud in counseling. Let the Therapist help guide him through how he feels about it and maybe help him find his words.

Good Luck!

PS--Have you looked into the weekend retreats I mentioned earlier in this post?

I love he letter idea and I also love the weekend retreat idea! Thank you kindly! -OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP i'm right there with you but my DH has flat out told me if we divorce he will seek full custody of our children... So I stay to not live in fear my children will be taken away.

While he sucks as a husband he is a great father, save for the willingness to cut them off from their mother. So my kids are happy, I am misearble, and our therapist told me to just forgive what he said in anger. Sooo I fake it to be with my kids.

Consult with your own attorney to see if he has a snowball's chance in hell of actually getting full custody before you give up.

Pp here. I want physical custody and visitation to him. he will seek the opposite. 50/50 chabce there im not willing to gamble with my kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP i'm right there with you but my DH has flat out told me if we divorce he will seek full custody of our children... So I stay to not live in fear my children will be taken away.

While he sucks as a husband he is a great father, save for the willingness to cut them off from their mother. So my kids are happy, I am misearble, and our therapist told me to just forgive what he said in anger. Sooo I fake it to be with my kids.

Consult with your own attorney to see if he has a snowball's chance in hell of actually getting full custody before you give up.

Pp here. I want physical custody and visitation to him. he will seek the opposite. 50/50 chabce there im not willing to gamble with my kids

Unless he is abusive or addicted you will not get custody with visitation. Default now is 50/50 custody barring extenuating circumstances like abuse or addiction.