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Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:I am sure the niqbis of the world are biting their nails over your opinion on how they choose to dress....
Again that word "choose," because you can't imagine that some wearers don't have a choice. Actually, the ones who are forced to wear it probably appreciate that somebody, although not you, is concerned on their behalf.
Stop your lies, just because you are too narrow-minded to imagine that millions of women actually CHOOSE to wear a niqab doesn't mean the rest of the world uses your thought process. I have stated many times, that SOME women are forced to dress a certain way EVERYWHERE in the world be it a Niqab, a Hijab, a Miniskirt, or a Bikini. Get a grip and stop thinking the world revolves around what is normalized in your head.
These aren't lies.
We are a product of our environment. And you're a perfect example of that.
My children are being raised in an atheist household. However, I will indeed encourage them to take a comparative religions class in HS (if offered) and college. I was raised Catholic. So I know the bible. We talk about religion.
And b/c we TALK, my daughter is not being brainwashed into believing that she must walk around covering - and that goes for Amish and sects of Judaism and Islam. can't excite a man! God forbid I should have hormones and a vagina!
You're in such denial that it's simply pathetic.
It's so easy to turn to the quran to find an answer - much easier than finding it in yourself, eh?
No, she is just being brainwashed into whatever sick theories are part of your moral rationale.
Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:I am sure the niqbis of the world are biting their nails over your opinion on how they choose to dress....
Again that word "choose," because you can't imagine that some wearers don't have a choice. Actually, the ones who are forced to wear it probably appreciate that somebody, although not you, is concerned on their behalf.
Stop your lies, just because you are too narrow-minded to imagine that millions of women actually CHOOSE to wear a niqab doesn't mean the rest of the world uses your thought process. I have stated many times, that SOME women are forced to dress a certain way EVERYWHERE in the world be it a Niqab, a Hijab, a Miniskirt, or a Bikini. Get a grip and stop thinking the world revolves around what is normalized in your head.
More info about them here :
(Full article on the link, i have just quoted part of the article, but reading the full article will give more insight to those interested)
Read more here : http://muslisms.com/2014/09/14/khawarij-a-history-of-violence/
There are many Muslims who are troubled by ISIS and their vicious rhetoric and vicious actions. But this is not the first time that a rebel group of Muslims have emerged with extremist tendencies. And as the saying goes, those who do not heed history are doomed to repeat it.
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, warned his followers of a group of people who would arise after his death. The Prophet mentioned their arrival and characteristics no less than 10 times. Among the characteristics he mentioned were:
They would worship so much that “you shall consider your worship and your prayer and your recitation of the Qur’an to be nothing compared to theirs.” Meaning, their outward actions, like praying and reciting the Qur’an, would be on overdrive. And yet…
“They shall recite the Qur’an but it will not leave their throats.” Meaning that their understanding of the Qur’an will not go any farther than their recitation, and they will not have religious knowledge or insight.
“They are calling to the book of Allah, but they have nothing to do with the book of Allah.” Meaning their call is great, but their actions are terrible.
“They are speaking the best speech that you will ever hear of any man. But they will leave Islam like an arrow leaves its prey.”
Surely enough, less than 20 years after the death of The Prophet, this group came into being.
The Beginning of the Khawarij
During the time of the fourth Caliph, Ali, (who ruled from 656 – 661 CE) there was a political war between him and another man named Mu’awiyah. Both were Companions (sahaba) of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Ali was also the Prophet’s son-in-law and cousin.
At one point, Ali and Mu’awiyah had ceased fighting and began a process of arbitration to bring about peace. Arbitrators were selected from the two sides to bring an end to hostilities, based on the Qur’an and sunnah (traditions of The Prophet). However, among these people was a group who believed that arbitration was a sin, based on their own understanding of the verse of the Qur’an which states:
The judgement (hukm) is Allah’s alone, He relates the truth and He is the Best of deciders.
Qur’an, 6: 57
The group accused Ali of sin and disbelief and told him to repent. He defended himself, and said of them:
“The sentence is right but what (they think) it means is wrong. It is true that law-giving (hukm, judgement) is God’s alone, but these people say that governance is God’s alone…In short, the law does not get put into practice all by itself; there must be someone, or some group, who tries to put it into practice.”
The group was adamant that Ali had sinned. In short, they believed that if Ali was following the truth, he had to kill Mu’awiyah and all his men for their insurrection. And if he was not following the truth, then Mu’awiyah and his men should have killed him.
6000 of them split away from Ali’s rule and formed their own tribe. They became known as the Kharijites, or Khawarij. The title comes from the Arabic word “khuruj”, meaning “revolt” or “insurrection”. This group was the first group to exhibit extremist tendencies and the first sect to split away from mainstream Islamic thought—even before the Sunni-Shia split.
Features of the Khawarij
Initially, Ali left the group alone. In his wisdom, he did not want to force people to reform their beliefs or overpower them. He told them that they could practice however they wished, so long as they did not spread corruption in the land.
However, the extreme, overzealous practices of the Khawarij are what drove them into constant conflict and bloodshed. They would kill anyone who did not believe in their extremist ideology. Some of the many features of the Kharawij were among the following:
They would pray so much that their foreheads would become calloused and their hands rough
They would be malnourished from fasting so much
They considered anyone who had committed a major sin (ie drinking alcohol, fornication, backbiting) to be a disbeliever, and that they should be killed
They believed only they were on the correct path and everyone else was a disbeliever and had to be killed
They questioned the religious scholarship of notables like Ibn Abbas, Ibn Masud, Aishah—and even The Prophet himself
They were narrow-minded and short-sighted
They lacked any sort of religious knowledge or scholarship
They acted without knowledge or insight into the consequences of their actions
They saw the need to openly fight whoever they considered to be an unjust ruler
In short, much of the Khawarij belief stemmed from an overzealous sense of righteousness. Their intention was noble: they were concerned for the purity of the religion. However, their extremist tendencies were incompatible with the realities of life, and showed a disregard for the maxim of Islam that calls for mercy and peace first and foremost.
(Full article on the link, i have just quoted part of the article, but reading the full article will give more insight to those interested)
Read more here : http://muslisms.com/2014/09/14/khawarij-a-history-of-violence/
There are many Muslims who are troubled by ISIS and their vicious rhetoric and vicious actions. But this is not the first time that a rebel group of Muslims have emerged with extremist tendencies. And as the saying goes, those who do not heed history are doomed to repeat it.
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, warned his followers of a group of people who would arise after his death. The Prophet mentioned their arrival and characteristics no less than 10 times. Among the characteristics he mentioned were:
They would worship so much that “you shall consider your worship and your prayer and your recitation of the Qur’an to be nothing compared to theirs.” Meaning, their outward actions, like praying and reciting the Qur’an, would be on overdrive. And yet…
“They shall recite the Qur’an but it will not leave their throats.” Meaning that their understanding of the Qur’an will not go any farther than their recitation, and they will not have religious knowledge or insight.
“They are calling to the book of Allah, but they have nothing to do with the book of Allah.” Meaning their call is great, but their actions are terrible.
“They are speaking the best speech that you will ever hear of any man. But they will leave Islam like an arrow leaves its prey.”
Surely enough, less than 20 years after the death of The Prophet, this group came into being.
The Beginning of the Khawarij
During the time of the fourth Caliph, Ali, (who ruled from 656 – 661 CE) there was a political war between him and another man named Mu’awiyah. Both were Companions (sahaba) of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Ali was also the Prophet’s son-in-law and cousin.
At one point, Ali and Mu’awiyah had ceased fighting and began a process of arbitration to bring about peace. Arbitrators were selected from the two sides to bring an end to hostilities, based on the Qur’an and sunnah (traditions of The Prophet). However, among these people was a group who believed that arbitration was a sin, based on their own understanding of the verse of the Qur’an which states:
The judgement (hukm) is Allah’s alone, He relates the truth and He is the Best of deciders.
Qur’an, 6: 57
The group accused Ali of sin and disbelief and told him to repent. He defended himself, and said of them:
“The sentence is right but what (they think) it means is wrong. It is true that law-giving (hukm, judgement) is God’s alone, but these people say that governance is God’s alone…In short, the law does not get put into practice all by itself; there must be someone, or some group, who tries to put it into practice.”
The group was adamant that Ali had sinned. In short, they believed that if Ali was following the truth, he had to kill Mu’awiyah and all his men for their insurrection. And if he was not following the truth, then Mu’awiyah and his men should have killed him.
6000 of them split away from Ali’s rule and formed their own tribe. They became known as the Kharijites, or Khawarij. The title comes from the Arabic word “khuruj”, meaning “revolt” or “insurrection”. This group was the first group to exhibit extremist tendencies and the first sect to split away from mainstream Islamic thought—even before the Sunni-Shia split.
Features of the Khawarij
Initially, Ali left the group alone. In his wisdom, he did not want to force people to reform their beliefs or overpower them. He told them that they could practice however they wished, so long as they did not spread corruption in the land.
However, the extreme, overzealous practices of the Khawarij are what drove them into constant conflict and bloodshed. They would kill anyone who did not believe in their extremist ideology. Some of the many features of the Kharawij were among the following:
They would pray so much that their foreheads would become calloused and their hands rough
They would be malnourished from fasting so much
They considered anyone who had committed a major sin (ie drinking alcohol, fornication, backbiting) to be a disbeliever, and that they should be killed
They believed only they were on the correct path and everyone else was a disbeliever and had to be killed
They questioned the religious scholarship of notables like Ibn Abbas, Ibn Masud, Aishah—and even The Prophet himself
They were narrow-minded and short-sighted
They lacked any sort of religious knowledge or scholarship
They acted without knowledge or insight into the consequences of their actions
They saw the need to openly fight whoever they considered to be an unjust ruler
In short, much of the Khawarij belief stemmed from an overzealous sense of righteousness. Their intention was noble: they were concerned for the purity of the religion. However, their extremist tendencies were incompatible with the realities of life, and showed a disregard for the maxim of Islam that calls for mercy and peace first and foremost.
No. They are among one of the minor signs of the Hour. We have minor & major signs, but besides that, they appear with every generation. The Khawaarij will never come to an end. Rather, they will continue to exist until the establishment of the Final Hour.
Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The idea that God would send down a book to a largely illiterate population that requires degreed people to interpret it is hysterical on its face. That's just a job security thing for the Ibn Saud University graduates.
According to a biography that circulated on jihadist internet forums in July 2013, Baghdadi obtained a BA, MA and PhD in Islamic studies from the Islamic University of Baghdad.
Surely someone that has studied Islam that long is not mistaken on it's true meaning.
I would think that someone that has spent years studying Islam is a better candidate for an example of Islam than casual followers that inhabit DCUM.
To understand ISIS, you have to understand the khawarij and their history in Islam. The khawarij appear with almost every generation. The prophet (saw) warned us against them. Narrated Yusair bin 'Amr: I asked Sahl bin Hunaif, "Did you hear the Prophet saying anything about Al-Khawarij?" He said, "I heard him saying while pointing his hand towards Iraq. "There will appear in it (i.e, Iraq) some people who will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from (leave) Islam as an arrow darts through the game's body."
Who then is responsible for understanding ISIS?
Am I - a Western atheist- expected to study this area in order to become more understanding?
Who is your audience for this matter?
Nobody is expecting you to learn anything. Those who are interested in these matters will look them up. This was an answer to the question of " Oh Baghdagi their leader is a graduate of so and so islamic program, so he does understand x, y z" and my point was, just because people recite the Qu'ran doesn't mean they understand it or apply it since we were warned of a group amongst the Muslims who will come in later times, will recite the Qu'ran beautifully but will spread mischief in the world and will use the Qu'ran to justify each of their evil deeds. They will persecute Muslims and Non muslims alike and will be ruthless!
So you believe in the apocalypse?
I am Muslim, so my views about the end of times are different from the Christian apocalypse, but I do believe in the end of times, yes.
Oh boy.......
I am sure the niqbis of the world are biting their nails over your opinion on how they choose to dress....
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is now really the best time to put Israel under the microscope? We all know it's likely to foster greater anti-Semitic feelings and serve as a mechanism to recruit jihadists. I'm not excusing the acts of Israel. Rather, I'm stating that perhaps the rational grown-ups who the global community looks to for leadership understand that such an inquiry is ill-timed and will result in more violence.
I see. You are saying there is a good time and a bad time to call a criminal a criminal?
+1000- Ridiculous
Anonymous wrote:The US joins Israel in condemning an inquiry into whether war crimes were committed.
http://www.voanews.com/content/us-denounces-icc-war-crimes-probe-of-israel/2602536.html
The war crimes committed by Israel are real and to condemn an investigation which is not even a condemnation but an inquiry into it is unethical and wrong. Thousands of Palestinians and children were killed, and I am glad someone is finally looking into it, but Im not holding my breath.
Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The idea that God would send down a book to a largely illiterate population that requires degreed people to interpret it is hysterical on its face. That's just a job security thing for the Ibn Saud University graduates.
According to a biography that circulated on jihadist internet forums in July 2013, Baghdadi obtained a BA, MA and PhD in Islamic studies from the Islamic University of Baghdad.
Surely someone that has studied Islam that long is not mistaken on it's true meaning.
I would think that someone that has spent years studying Islam is a better candidate for an example of Islam than casual followers that inhabit DCUM.
To understand ISIS, you have to understand the khawarij and their history in Islam. The khawarij appear with almost every generation. The prophet (saw) warned us against them. Narrated Yusair bin 'Amr: I asked Sahl bin Hunaif, "Did you hear the Prophet saying anything about Al-Khawarij?" He said, "I heard him saying while pointing his hand towards Iraq. "There will appear in it (i.e, Iraq) some people who will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from (leave) Islam as an arrow darts through the game's body."
Who then is responsible for understanding ISIS?
Am I - a Western atheist- expected to study this area in order to become more understanding?
Who is your audience for this matter?
Nobody is expecting you to learn anything. Those who are interested in these matters will look them up. This was an answer to the question of " Oh Baghdagi their leader is a graduate of so and so islamic program, so he does understand x, y z" and my point was, just because people recite the Qu'ran doesn't mean they understand it or apply it since we were warned of a group amongst the Muslims who will come in later times, will recite the Qu'ran beautifully but will spread mischief in the world and will use the Qu'ran to justify each of their evil deeds. They will persecute Muslims and Non muslims alike and will be ruthless!
Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The idea that God would send down a book to a largely illiterate population that requires degreed people to interpret it is hysterical on its face. That's just a job security thing for the Ibn Saud University graduates.
According to a biography that circulated on jihadist internet forums in July 2013, Baghdadi obtained a BA, MA and PhD in Islamic studies from the Islamic University of Baghdad.
Surely someone that has studied Islam that long is not mistaken on it's true meaning.
I would think that someone that has spent years studying Islam is a better candidate for an example of Islam than casual followers that inhabit DCUM.
To understand ISIS, you have to understand the khawarij and their history in Islam. The khawarij appear with almost every generation. The prophet (saw) warned us against them. Narrated Yusair bin 'Amr: I asked Sahl bin Hunaif, "Did you hear the Prophet saying anything about Al-Khawarij?" He said, "I heard him saying while pointing his hand towards Iraq. "There will appear in it (i.e, Iraq) some people who will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from (leave) Islam as an arrow darts through the game's body."
Shorter version: my Islam is the correct version, and everybody else is a khawarij and therefore totally wrong.
Accusing someone of being a khawarij is a serious accusation, not something you just shout at people you don't agree with .
perhaps in your culture
If it means nothing to me, why would it be a serious accusation?
I did not say it was a serious accusation for you. I was referring to me, that I wouldn't say that everyone who disagrees with "my so called version " of Islam is a Khawarij.
You misunderstand the reaction to your post that "to understand ISIS you have to understand Khawarij." The problem, as with any time one demonizes someone who thinks differently, is that it's a slippery slope, first ISIS and then your neighbor who refuses to veil. Also, who gets to decide who is Khawarij? ISIS undoubtedly thinks moderate Muslims are Khararij. The whole idea of demonizing someone else seems fraught with problems.
I don't go around demonizing people who don't think, dress or look like me. Many scholars and leaders in the Muslim world came out against ISIS and some said they were the modern time kharirj , I would not have made that accusation on my own. We were left with what the signs of the Kharirj would be and how to recognize them and if you read everything about their description, it can not just be applied to any random Muslim on the street. Their ideology is based upon the following
-Declaring Muslims to be unbelievers. (they charge other Muslims with unbelief due to their sins or perceived sins, justifying their merciless behavior towards them.
-Rejecting lawful obedience to the rulers.
-Justifying violence against Muslims and innocent people.
The prophet (saw) said : "Whoever rejects obedience to the leader and divides the community and dies will have died upon ignorance. Whoever fights under the banner of one who is blind, raging for the sake of tribalism, or calling to tribalism, or supporting tribalism, and is killed will have died upon ignorance. Whoever rebels against my nation, striking the righteous and wicked alike and sparing not even the believers and does not fulfill the pledge of security, then he has nothing to do with me and I have nothing to do with him."
They reject lawful obedience to Muslim leaders and they fight according to their tribal zeal, meaning they are not concerned with justice for their victims.
They attack both the righteous and the wicked, and they do not honor covenants of security and the protection of civilians. In our times, you will see them target markets, bus stations, airports, and other places frequented by unarmed civilians. The purpose of such attacks is not to achieve any immediate military objectives, but rather to spread terror among the population and destabilize the government. Wherever they appear, the Kharijites cause division among the Muslims at large and even among their own groups. Whenever they form a group, it is not long before splinter groups and off-shoots appear with each one claiming to have the right to seize the Caliphate. The Prophet (SAW) described them as using beautiful Islamic rhetoric and selling “foolish dreams” to the Muslim masses. Their “foolish dreams” are their promises of an Islamic Utopia, a glorious jihad, a new Caliphate that will bring honor and strength back to the Muslims. Yet, their dreams are unrealistic and their methodologies dangerous to the very people they claim to be helping. Their understanding of faith is so shallow, superficial, and hypocritical that they cause even greater harm to Muslim community.
The prophet (saw) said : There will be dissension and division in my nation and a people will come with beautiful words but evil deeds. They recite the Quran but it will not pass beyond their throats. They will leave the religion as an arrow leaves its target and they will not return until the arrows returns to its notch. They are the worst of the creation."
Anonymous wrote:Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I realize that. But I stand by my statement. I'm not a fan or defender of Saudi Arabia...and I can't imagine any American would be. My point is that our little bubble here in the States IS a shining beacon of freedom...and most Americans are primarily concerned with their own little world and their own rights and security.
The fact that our government is in bed with dictators, oppressors and thugs is disappointing, but it doesn't have an obvious impact on the daily lives of Americans.
More specifically: Americans don't have to adhere to bizarre religious laws; people aren't stoned or flogged or beheaded or crucified (and the death penalty is thankfully on it's way out the door); women aren't property (and we can drive!); gay people aren't incarcerated or thrown off buildings (that just happened the other day thanks to ISIS). I could go on and on, but I think you catch the drift.
Again, I hear what you are saying about our international allies and politics...but I think some of those unfortunate partnerships are necessary for American interest until the rest of the world is capable of accepting societal norms and living peacefully despite religious differences.
That's where you are wrong. You think the US foreign policy doesn't impact your national security? The effects of of our foreign policy is the best advertisement for Al-Quaeda & IS. You think that drones unilaterally sent in some parts of the world killing innocent civilians will not come to haunt you when those children grow up and come to "avenge" their country? families? A drone strike kills your entire family and someone from a cell contacts you promising you revenge for your entire family , how easy would it be for someone who has nothing to lose to fall for this?
What Americans do not often remember, I think, is that there was a time when the United States was well loved across the Middle East. Granted, it was before 1948, but there are still important lessons to be learned from that. The United States was seen across the Levant as a former colonial subject, who had thrown off the yoke of their British oppressor. The US was seen as an example of what Middle Eastern states could some day become, as evidenced by the findings of the King Crane Commission during the summer of 1919. It really wasn't until the United States was the first country in the world to recognize the new state of Israel, in face of the displacement of millions of Palestinians and the destruction of their hopes for an independent state, that support for the United States began to wane. Even after 1948, opinions of the US were still relatively high. It would take decades of the United States arming Israel, blocking United Nations Security Council Resolutions, supporting Israeli settlement policies which would continue to weaken Palestinian hopes of ever reaching a state of self-governance,before Arabs in particular and the Middle East in general began to turn against the United States. The plight of the Palestinians has long been the central call to justice for fundamentalists from the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the Assad regime in Syria, the Iranian regime and the rise of Ayatollah Khomeini in particular, the Mujahhadin in Afghanistan, Al-Quaeda in the Maghrib and the list goes on. I truly believe that the unconditional support of the United States for Israel and Israeli policies has been the single biggest undermining factor of US national security, it continues to be, and will continue to be for as long as the status-quo remains intact.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm just reading about the violent protests in Jordan and Niger. In Niger, they are attacking and burning down churches and christians businesses.
I'm more concerned about the threats made against Duke because they were going to allow muslim call to prayer to be broadcast from the chapel. That is terrorism that succeeded in stifling free speech, right here in America. And no one seems to care.
+1 Rising Islamophobia. Vox stated that they didn't receive any threats from their Muslim readership about posting the CH cartoons but received many threats for covering Islamophobia.
Full article here : http://www.vox.com/2015/1/14/7541095/charlie-hebdo-muslims-threats
Writers at Vox have indeed been bombarded with threats for our Charlie Hebdo coverage. But not one of those threats has come from a Muslim or in response to publishing anti-Islam cartoons. Revealingly, they have rather all come from non-Muslims furious at our articles criticizing Islamophobia.
Our coverage of Islamophobia has brought a very different response. Articles decrying anti-Muslim bigotry and attacks on mosques have been met with dozens of threats on email and social media.
The most common states a desire that jihadist militants will murder the offending writer: a recent email hoped that Muslims will "behead you one day" so that "we will never have to read your trash again." Some directly threaten violence themselves, or imply it with statements such as "May you rot in hell."
Others express a desire to murder all Muslims — one simply read "I agree with maher Kill them all" — also often implying the emailed journalist is themselves Muslim. One pledge to attack Vox writers begins, "Fuck you and any cunt who believes in allah."
As is often the case, the strongest threats have been reserved for women. One writer received a message arguing that someone should "put a gun up your ass" to make her understand terrorism.
Ironically, these threats are typically couched in arguments that Muslims are inherently irrational and violent. Further, threats made with the explicit intention of silencing journalists from discussing Islamophobia are positioned as necessary "defenses" of free speech against the threat of Islam. The people making the threats seem unaware that they are themselves seeking to curb the very free speech they pretend to uphold.
I thought this was about polygamy 
Ahahha, hey that might work. Good idea 