Reverse roles not working

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I can't tell if you are just venting because you are under so much stress or if you've already decided you want a divorce and you're looking for validation on the internet? Do you want to try to save the marriage or are you done?

OP
I’m done being unhappy
I can’t do or contribute any more
I don’t want to manage him or lower my standards
I also don’t want to fight with him and be disappointed all the time
He makes me feel bad about myself so yes I’d probably prefer to be alone than in this relationship with him

Yes, but realize not everything is going to change if you divorce. Your H will likely get 50% custody and you will have to pay him child support. He doesn’t have to agree to birthday parties or play dates when the kids are with him. You will still be answering all the calls from the school and other parents. You’ll see your kids 50% of the time. If you sign them up for music lessons or sports, H doesn’t have to take them during his custody time. It’s the same as now, except you see your kids half time and pay your H child support.

Thanks
I’d be surprised if he took them half the time but when he does they’ll be on iPads all day long
I feel trapped
But what do I do?

OP, you are not trapped. You have options. None of them are perfect, but you can do better than the current situation. It doesn't sound like you have any love left for your husband, but are torn about divorce because that would mean relinquishing some control. That would be one of the trade offs. You have to figure out the best (imperfect) option for you and your children.

OP
Yes I understand the options
But my biggest source of stress and frustration is worrying about my kids, divorcing their father and leaving him with them in his home when he can’t even follow a schedule or plan we’ve put together in our shared home is daunting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel you, OP. I was in a similar (although not as extreme) position for a while. None of these are complete fixes, but here is what I recommend:
1. Think hard about what home/kid stuff is truly necessary for your kids to be happy/healthy and for your house to be livable. forget about everything else and let it go for now. You guys are in crisis, so eyes on the prize.
2. Figure out which of the items from #1 you can take on without burning out and/or seething with resentment all the time.
3. Tell DH you are not doing to rest and that he needs to handle it. Then, and this is the truly hard part, do not pick up his slack. If he drops the ball or tries to pass it back to you, just hand it back to him. Repeat as necessary.
4. Appreciate what your DH does do. Even if it's not his share or as much as he should be doing, make an effort to consciously notice what he does and to compliment him on it. This will help decrease your resentment and will provide him with positive reinforcement which will make him want to do more stuff.

I don't think you need to get rid of the nanny. I held firm on no nanny when my DH was underemployed, and it really hurt my career and undermined my happiness. On the one hand, its not fair that you are paying for a nanny when your DH has no job. On the other hand, fair or not, it may be what you need right now to make this work.

Hang in there.

Thanks so much for this helpful response
I definitely feel like we’re in a crisis right now and it’s going to reach a head

The thing is that we’ll agree what he’s going to do, he’ll say he doesn’t want to do the stuff but he’ll agree to take responsibility for it. Then he’ll just completely drop the ball! That’s what makes me so mad. I don’t get to drop the ball plus I’ve got to pick up his slack
We’ve been doing this dance for a couple of years but with Covid I’m so overwhelmed at work yet he takes advantage of me being distracted not to do his stuff

He’ll say he’s not taking DS to music lessons because DS doesn’t enjoy them
But we’ve already agreed and paid for a season

The appreciation doesn’t come easily right now because I’m so resentful
I need to figure out how to shake this off but he reinforces the fact that he doesn’t really care so often that it’s getting worse not better

I'm the PP you are responding to. I hear you--it is such a frustrating situation. In my experience, though, so long as you are picking up his slack, he will continue to slack off. Only once you stop compensating for his failings will he be forced to pull his weight or suffer the consequences. So, the school and the other parents are call you because he dropped the ball? Redirect, redirect, redirect. Meaning, tell him they called and tell them to call him. Refuse to play the middle man. So, you are wasting money on classes that are not used? Make sure that money comes out of a fund for something he cares about. Your kids are upset about a situation that he was supposed to handle? Tell them they have to talk to him because this was on his plate.

If you were to become incapacitated tomorrow, I guarantee your DH would figure out a way to deal. It might not be exactly the way you would do things, but the kids would be fed and housed and would not turn into feral animals.

As for the gratitude/compliments, fake it till you make it. Even if you are angry about the overall situation, you can still say, "Thanks for unloading the dishwasher." Not because he deserves it, necessarily, but because it will help you feel better and will incentivize him to do more. Right now, he probably feels like whatever he does is not enough (because it's not), which makes him not want to even try (which makes the problem worse). If he sees that whatever he does is appreciated, he will want more of that feeling, and so will do more. It's not necessarily fair or right, but it's how humans are wired.

Once you guys get to a place where things are a little more balanced, then you can think about whether you want to stay married and/or rebuild your relationship. Right now, though, you just need to figure out how to work together.

Thanks for coming back again, I appreciate your perspective
We are in a crisis mode as you said earlier
I need to figure out a way to get out of it before we can get to a place where I’m grateful to him
Right now I’d be grateful if he’d get a job, and an apartment
Ugh
But you clearly understand the situation and I’ll post back with an update

[Anonymous]

You need to have the come-to-Jesus. “Husband, my life is not working and I’m getting scared the only way things are ever going to change is if we divorce. If you are ready for things to change, let’s fix it. But divorce is all I can think of at this point.”

He thinks things are not perfect but also not dire. You need to disabuse him of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to have the come-to-Jesus. “Husband, my life is not working and I’m getting scared the only way things are ever going to change is if we divorce. If you are ready for things to change, let’s fix it. But divorce is all I can think of at this point.”

He thinks things are not perfect but also not dire. You need to disabuse him of that.

Thanks
Yes this dialogue has been very helpful for me to realize that

[Anonymous]

Is he an alcoholic?
Even if he is low energy, it doesn’t make sense for someone not to care at all about his work, his family, or his marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is he an alcoholic?
Even if he is low energy, it doesn’t make sense for someone not to care at all about his work, his family, or his marriage.

No he’s not an alcoholic
He’s just a low energy introvert
I think he does care in his own way but he doesn’t want to put himself out
He likes to sleep in, read a lot, watch movies, play golf.
He doesn’t like to be social
He’s good with the kids when they’re in front of him but given a choice he’d prefer to be alone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I can't tell if you are just venting because you are under so much stress or if you've already decided you want a divorce and you're looking for validation on the internet? Do you want to try to save the marriage or are you done?

OP
I’m done being unhappy
I can’t do or contribute any more
I don’t want to manage him or lower my standards
I also don’t want to fight with him and be disappointed all the time
He makes me feel bad about myself so yes I’d probably prefer to be alone than in this relationship with him

Yes, but realize not everything is going to change if you divorce. Your H will likely get 50% custody and you will have to pay him child support. He doesn’t have to agree to birthday parties or play dates when the kids are with him. You will still be answering all the calls from the school and other parents. You’ll see your kids 50% of the time. If you sign them up for music lessons or sports, H doesn’t have to take them during his custody time. It’s the same as now, except you see your kids half time and pay your H child support.

Thanks
I’d be surprised if he took them half the time but when he does they’ll be on iPads all day long
I feel trapped
But what do I do?

OP, you are not trapped. You have options. None of them are perfect, but you can do better than the current situation. It doesn't sound like you have any love left for your husband, but are torn about divorce because that would mean relinquishing some control. That would be one of the trade offs. You have to figure out the best (imperfect) option for you and your children.

OP
Yes I understand the options
But my biggest source of stress and frustration is worrying about my kids, divorcing their father and leaving him with them in his home when he can’t even follow a schedule or plan we’ve put together in our shared home is daunting

But none of this means your kids are unsafe, right? I mean so they don't go to practice or piano class, the world will not end. It sounds like he will feed and clothe them and not let them play in traffic.

[Anonymous]

Maybe it is hard for me to "get this" problem because I don't have it but I don't see stressing out about all of this. He is a parent too. When teachers etc call, direct them to him. Continuously until he and they get that they HE is the point person. Let his money for the things that he drops the ball on. If it comes out of his golf fees he might be more invested in making sure the money is not wasted. But I would not be losing sleep over this at night. I would also say in no uncertain terms to him that no amount of avoiding the conversation is going to fix it and if by X date things don't change you will be exploring other options including and especially separation and divorce. Perhaps the fear of having to do it all without a nanny (because she stays with you) and in a smaller place etc will make him step it up. But, again, I would not be losing sleep over any of this unless my children were being mistreated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it is hard for me to "get this" problem because I don't have it but I don't see stressing out about all of this. He is a parent too. When teachers etc call, direct them to him. Continuously until he and they get that they HE is the point person. Let his money for the things that he drops the ball on. If it comes out of his golf fees he might be more invested in making sure the money is not wasted. But I would not be losing sleep over this at night. I would also say in no uncertain terms to him that no amount of avoiding the conversation is going to fix it and if by X date things don't change you will be exploring other options including and especially separation and divorce. Perhaps the fear of having to do it all without a nanny (because she stays with you) and in a smaller place etc will make him step it up. But, again, I would not be losing sleep over any of this unless my children were being mistreated.

OP
Thanks
I guess I’m losing sleep because I’m stressed out of my mind and he’s always so relaxed
I pay for 100% of everything including his golf
We agree on what he’s responsible for but then he doesn’t follow through

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I can't tell if you are just venting because you are under so much stress or if you've already decided you want a divorce and you're looking for validation on the internet? Do you want to try to save the marriage or are you done?

OP
I’m done being unhappy
I can’t do or contribute any more
I don’t want to manage him or lower my standards
I also don’t want to fight with him and be disappointed all the time
He makes me feel bad about myself so yes I’d probably prefer to be alone than in this relationship with him

Yes, but realize not everything is going to change if you divorce. Your H will likely get 50% custody and you will have to pay him child support. He doesn’t have to agree to birthday parties or play dates when the kids are with him. You will still be answering all the calls from the school and other parents. You’ll see your kids 50% of the time. If you sign them up for music lessons or sports, H doesn’t have to take them during his custody time. It’s the same as now, except you see your kids half time and pay your H child support.

Thanks
I’d be surprised if he took them half the time but when he does they’ll be on iPads all day long
I feel trapped
But what do I do?

OP, you are not trapped. You have options. None of them are perfect, but you can do better than the current situation. It doesn't sound like you have any love left for your husband, but are torn about divorce because that would mean relinquishing some control. That would be one of the trade offs. You have to figure out the best (imperfect) option for you and your children.

OP
Yes I understand the options
But my biggest source of stress and frustration is worrying about my kids, divorcing their father and leaving him with them in his home when he can’t even follow a schedule or plan we’ve put together in our shared home is daunting

But none of this means your kids are unsafe, right? I mean so they don't go to practice or piano class, the world will not end. It sounds like he will feed and clothe them and not let them play in traffic.

So the most I should expect of my stay at home husband is that he keeps the kids alive?!
This would be ok with you?

[Anonymous]

I left our kids with my husband while I went to do a masters degree. He was such an unbelievably shit parent that I divorced him over it. Some men just have no self respect. Now he has them half time and does what I consider minimally acceptable parenting but at least I don’t have to pretend to be attracted to a self centered, lazy man baby.

[Anonymous]

I don’t “get” it either, op. You have a nanny who lives in and works 6 days a week. Your kids are elementary school age.

Why not have the nanny take the kids where you want them to go?

You mention the diversity of your neighborhood. Are you sure your husband isn’t being shunned because he’s a married, straight, white male? Believe me, that does happen.

Count me as one of the women who finds stay-at-home dads a bit odd. I can never tell if they are interested in a kid friendship or an adult playdate.

It doesn’t help when they refuse to give me their wives’ phone numbers so I can at least include the wife in a group chat. Maybe I’m cautious, though no happily married woman has ever said “you know, go ahead and text my husband all you want, I trust him”. When I do text a dad in our circle, I include his wife and my husband.

I am also wondering if your husband has something wrong with him. If it isn’t alcohol, might it be porn or sex addiction?

It’s odd that he’d be happy being home under the conditions you describe.

Finally, lay off about his volunteering. It’s very possible he’s tried and been treated poorly. It’s possible he’s seen activities that don’t appeal to him. Our PTA was looking for a treasurer. No way would I want to do that, I don’t even like handling my own money.

If there is something that you’d like him to do with you, then tell him that. If you just want to farm him out to prove how much you care about the community, that needs to stop. It isn’t your place. You are free to volunteer, and with your nanny’s work schedule, that’s easy for you to do. You aren’t free to task him to find something to do because you think it makes the family look good.

I can tell you from experience, all volunteer organizations want is free labor. That’s fine so far as it goes, and it’s fine if the people doing it are happy with their contribution and what they are asked to do, but it is also very personal. What might not phase one person may make another person literally quit on the spot in anger, frustration or pain. Volunteerism isn’t something you can task another person to do.

Finally, and I don’t know why this jumped out at me, but if he really isn’t hearing the door while he’s in the office area of your home, consider a ring camera. You can do that for a little cash, and it’s easier then trying to convince him to get his hearing checked.

If you are absolutely sure that he checks out okay from an addiction standpoint, I’d wonder if he has a hearing loss, or some kind of processing disorder. I kid my husband and say that his name is his “wake word” like how Alexa works. Thing is, he’s been this way since the day I met him, you literally can’t have a conversation with him without saying his name, even during times when you think he’d be listening. I have noticed he has improved some, though I’ve also noticed that he has had to learn this skill in much the same way a person learns to ride a bike or cook. It isn’t naturally occurring for him. Might your husband truly not know anybody is speaking to him?

[Anonymous]

He should just go back to work. Some people are not good at being self-directed, especially at home. I'm one of them myself, so no judgment here. But many of us at-home lazies can function much better in the workplace where there are external pressures and deadlines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know what the right balance is for your family, but lots of families at DS’s school have a SAHM and an au pair. No one thinks this is odd. Especially with three kids and all their activities.

I think OP needs to be more direct. Tell DH he needs to sign the kids up for activities, fill out the school forms, make the medical appointments, etc. He doesn’t want to be friends with other parents. You can’t make someone want that if they don’t want it.

OP
I understand what you’re saying here
But I don’t really want to be working 80 hours a week right now
I also hate to miss so much stuff with my kids because I’m working or on call all the time
I have a full time role but also a leadership position so the responsibilities have grown out of control this year with trying to navigate Covid
We all have to do stuff we’d prefer not to do, I don’t have a choice when I’m working
When I’m not working I’d like to be able to relax with my kids instead of coordinating the landscaper or running out to get a birthday gift DH forgot

NP here. You are expecting a donkey is going to turn into an Arabian stallion and no amount of wishing is going to change your DH. So you have to decide if you feel like you are missing out on the kids growing up, what flexibility is available at your job or do you need to look for another role? Can you start work earlier and finish or take a 1.5 hour lunch break or work extra hours to take off every other Friday? I remember years ago I felt like I was failing with not enough time to get things done at work, not enough time to get stuff done at home, and always on the go with the kids when I wasn’t at work. I modified my schedule to take every other Friday off and work from home one day a week and it made a huge difference. I also stopped organizing play dates, reduced volunteering at the school, and cut back on the kids activities.

With DH, if you are on calls and answering the door is an issue, I would get a door camera and discuss where to put the bell/ring. You can answer on your device (phone/tablet) and if you have any critical work calls, just discuss ahead of time that you need him to keep his phone on or put the chime/device in the room where he is located. Otherwise, the door doesn’t get answered if you are on an important call. As for the other chores, the other poster had some good advice. The bottom line is he isn’t going to magical suddenly appreciate all you do or take on the SAHD role like a champ when it hasn’t been happening this long. But you can do things to eliminate excuses (I didn’t hear the door), drop what needs to be done to the bare minimum and give him a choice of which items he takes on from the pared down list and he owns them/has accountability for them.

[Anonymous]

Cultivating play dates during this COVID-19 era may not be a wise idea.