How do you get over being ostracized from a group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're right to move on. And you're fortunate to have additional friend groups. Many do not. I do think it's sad that you decided you didn't "like" two people in the group and for some reason made it known. It's totally fine to decide that out of 40 people there are two you don't really care for, but why talk about it, thus creating a situation where people feel the need to pick sides? Lesson learned, I hope. The good old "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" applies.

Hmm, don't know that I agree with this. It really depends why OP didn't like them. If it was because they wore the wrong clothes or didn't have as much money or even that she just didn't like innocuous aspects of their personalities, yes, I agree with you. But if it was because they were rude or gossipy or racist or elitist? Then I don't think OP has some duty to silently endure that. I've been in that situation before and I actually do think people should have to pick sides when members of a group are doing harmful things to other people, both in and out of the group. It's okay to have some standards for the people in your social circle.

OP here. To clarify, I didn't just randomly decide I didn't like these two people. I noticed they were always really rude to me when we interacted, teasing me about stuff and making little comments about me that hurt my feelings. I said something a few times asking them to stop (i.e. "Actually, that subject isn't really funny to me" or "that feels kind of hurtful"), but they didn't. So I chose to spend less time with them for my own sake. And I didn't go around bad mouthing them to everyone in the group. I told a very small group of close friends (three people) because I was hurt by the behavior. I did not expect them to tell others (which they did). I definitely did not expect them to gossip about it to the degree that they did, or to repeat some of the things I'd told them in confidence. I was specifically trying to avoid making people feel they had to choose sides, but it happened anyway because of how extensively the issue was gossiped about. Maybe I was wrong to ever discuss it, but I really was not trying to make it into a big thing.

I think the main lesson I learned is to avoid very large groups of people, especially if they talk about everyone else in the group a lot. I don't think there is anything wrong with confiding in friends about something, but I do think you need to be able to trust that those friends will keep your confidence. Mine didn't.

OP, you must leave this bag of rocks behind you. There is no need to carry it around anymore. Every time this situation pops into your head, envision it like a bag of rocks and drop it off your shoulders then mentally make an effort to shift your thoughts to something positive in your life, no matter how small it is. One small positive thought is much more valuable than a bag of heavy b.s. Do this often enough and you will see how quickly you can train your mind to leave this behind.

You are right that at this stage of life you need to avoid large groups. Who needs them?? If you have one true friend, somewhere - anywhere, then you are rich.

Not to mention you are forgetting the most important friend you have who you can always trust - yourself. Be your own friend. Give yourself good counsel. From now on, if someone treats you badly then tell YOURSELF you don't need them in your life. Extricate yourself from situations where they can be present.

FWIW I was in a similar situation only in was in the work place. There were some toxic coworkers who decided to target me and got supervisors involved. It was relentless and escalated to a point where I saw no resolution. Thankfully I was able to plan my exit quietly and without fanfare, and left one Friday without a word to anyone in the office - never to return. I don't give a crap what any of them think about me and have no interest in knowing anything about any of them. I dropped that bag of rocks. I have no regrets about leaving the way I did and went on to a very nice position which was waiting for me, working with wonderful people I trust and respect.

Drop the rocks. Move on.

Not OP, but thanks for this. I have a couple of situations that this rocks analogy helps with. Sometimes you just have to unload something, and to stop trying to make sense of it. I have a past career situation that I have to remind myself to leave behind. Sometimes it gets brought up again, and I find myself spiraling and trying to figure out where I went wrong (did not get a big promotion I was expecting)--either by self-sabotaging somehow or just not seeing the red flags that they had changed their minds after essentially promising it to me. It is incredibly counter productive and leaves me feeling terrible to even go down that road. It was a toxic environment, and everyone I respected from there has left, so I try to end my thinking with "it wasn't you" or "don't take it personally," but it would definitely be better to drop off that bag of rocks and to stop revisiting it mentally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I second the advice to try not seeing the group as a single entity and see if there are any friendships you can preserve. Groups like this are great for being invited to parties etc but true friendships are formed on the sidelines.
I am sorry this happened to you and I don’t know specifically what was said but it is possible that once the conversation got going some folks chimed in not meaning any harm. Everyone talks about people and I myself have said things about dear friends that I would not want them to hear. Maybe you have too. Definitely a mistake to put it in email.
On the other hand, i do find it odd that no one has reached out to you. If that’s the case it speaks to the superficiality of the group.

No, this is bad advice. Speaking as a prior PP who's been ostracized here. The stain and the stink of the thing that happened trickles into these relationships. It becomes this weird thing to sidestep, the elephant in the room. This is why being friends with a terrible person/queen bee will always bite you -- even you weren't directly involved in one of these disasters, you are now part of the fallout. And OP will find, as I did, that even if there were some overall "OK" people in the group, it's impossible to trust them if they didn't stop it from happening, speak up at the time, or help you in some way. You can explain away or try to "understand" why they didn't help/speak up/"get involved" for awhile ... but it doesn't last, and with distance, you may find that you actually judge these people harsher, not less. And once you can't trust them -- that nagging feeling doesn't go away. Been there. Onward, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This group’s actions certainly seem extreme but as a reality check, who among us has never said a negative thing about a friend?

Sure but that's not what OP is talking about. Everyone says negative things about their friends sometimes. I get annoyed about my friends all the time, especially when I'm in a mood about other stuff, and I complain to my husband about lots of dumb stuff.

It's totally different if people are saying a bunch of negative things about you, behind your back, while hiding it from you. And I can't imagine how hurtful it would be if some of those people were friends that you never expected to gossip about you in that way. I haven't had something like that happen since my 20s, but reading these posts really brought it all flooding back. Gossip really is pernicious, and people should realize that by the time you are in your 30s and 40s. If you have lots of interconnected friends, you have to learn how to discuss one another in discreet ways. Keep those conversations one on one (no piling on), don't do it at social events, never put it in writing, and don't play telephone (if someone confides in you that they don't like someone or had an issue with someone, NEVER pass that info along -- it doesn't belong to you).

The difference between saying a negative thing about a friend and what happened to OP is like the difference between making an illegal right turn on an empty street, and drunk driving. They are both against the law, but the risks of harming people are much, much higher with the latter.

[Anonymous]

I dunno PP, if you can’t make friends and maintain friendships outside of a group something is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dunno PP, if you can’t make friends and maintain friendships outside of a group something is wrong.

What a weird comment. I can't even tell what it's referring to because no one in the thread has argued that you need to be in group to be friends. The opposite actually -- most people are acknowledging that these kinds of large group friendships sort of naturally carry a risk that this kind of thing will happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This group’s actions certainly seem extreme but as a reality check, who among us has never said a negative thing about a friend?

Sure but that's not what OP is talking about. Everyone says negative things about their friends sometimes. I get annoyed about my friends all the time, especially when I'm in a mood about other stuff, and I complain to my husband about lots of dumb stuff.

It's totally different if people are saying a bunch of negative things about you, behind your back, while hiding it from you. And I can't imagine how hurtful it would be if some of those people were friends that you never expected to gossip about you in that way. I haven't had something like that happen since my 20s, but reading these posts really brought it all flooding back. Gossip really is pernicious, and people should realize that by the time you are in your 30s and 40s. If you have lots of interconnected friends, you have to learn how to discuss one another in discreet ways. Keep those conversations one on one (no piling on), don't do it at social events, never put it in writing, and don't play telephone (if someone confides in you that they don't like someone or had an issue with someone, NEVER pass that info along -- it doesn't belong to you).

The difference between saying a negative thing about a friend and what happened to OP is like the difference between making an illegal right turn on an empty street, and drunk driving. They are both against the law, but the risks of harming people are much, much higher with the latter.

But why do you need to gossip at all? I discuss my friends lives sometimes with others, but never anything critical or mean-spirited ... because they are my friends, and I like and respect them. Maybe this is the difference between being the kind of person who has a small group of close friends, and those who like wider circles. I DO fall into the gossip trap with relatives - I've definitely been catty about a SIL in a way that I definitely do not need to be. So I get the dynamic. But again, my actual chosen social life is based on strong mutual ties, so I would be shocked if any of us were gossiping in a mean way. (maybe some eye-rolling here or there, but no extended criticisms or anything fundamental.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ouch what a punch in the gut. I am sorry I don’t have anything to say that you probably don’t already realize
-you have other friends, so know that “it’s not you, it’s them”.

I am sorry for this. Sounds really mean spirited. I hope these people are still in their twenties , hopefully not older than 35. To be that petty and shallow by age 40 is wrong. By 40 hopefully one learns to be confident, sincere, kind, appreciative.

Big hug from cyber space.

Make time for fun with new acquaintances and a few friendships will develop - if not no worries you had fun, got your mind of the bs.

Thank you, I really appreciate the support. I agree -- the whole thing blindsided me because it never occurred to me that people this age would be this gossipy. In retrospect I overlooked a lot of red flags.

The cruelty of these adult women takes my breath away. I’m so sorry. This is the kind of stuff that happened to me in middle school and in my twenties. Do not let them know how dark your life became. Do not give them this power.

Focusing on your healing, what red flags did you miss? Use this introspection to identify red and orange flags in your new life.

Read Queen Bee Moms and Kingpin Dads. You will recognize many of the people in your neighborhood.
https://www.amazon.com/Queen-Bee-Moms-Kingpin-Dads/dp/140008301X

[Anonymous]

True story:

Seven friends in 40s and 30s

3 are the only ones who are able to go away for weekend. While the 3 were never really 1:1 before on this trip they really bonded. Over ripping the other 4.

Months go by. I get a text from my closest friend of group (the one who’s there when sh*t hits the fan)
“Hey. Larla gave me an earful. Hope we can still be friends”

No context. Did not speak or text me for weeks after.
I was left so sad. Larla had told lies to the other 4 of us b/c she was pissed how she was texted an invite not email. Imagine?
It was nuts.

The friend who ghosted me got together with me and was apologetic and said she didn’t realize how crazy the other 2 were until this spat got elevated - yes voodoo dolls. Trash talk non stop.

I am not friends with the 3. The apology was nice to clear the air but who the heck wants a friend they can’t trust.

I’ll never forget when first becoming friends with one of the drama queens year earlier her husband said “yeah she does have a lot of friends, but when it ends it’s not pretty”

Wow. That was a red flag.

Women can be cruel.

Good ones are keepers though.

[Anonymous]

Years earlier ^

[Anonymous]

I can't wrap my mind around being in the group of 40 who meet weekly.

[Anonymous]

Look within yourself. Are there any truths in what they say? Is it something you can change. You change not for them but for the faults you don't see in yourself that others see.

It's like if others say I am just mean because I never respond to text or emails. If there are some truth to that, perhaps, it's a good reason they feel that way. If it's an opinion like they never like the way you are dressed, hey, that's mainly their problem unless you absolutely look like a slob.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't wrap my mind around being in the group of 40 who meet weekly.

Really? Like a group of families or couples at a house of worship? Read between the lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look within yourself. Are there any truths in what they say? Is it something you can change. You change not for them but for the faults you don't see in yourself that others see.

It's like if others say I am just mean because I never respond to text or emails. If there are some truth to that, perhaps, it's a good reason they feel that way. If it's an opinion like they never like the way you are dressed, hey, that's mainly their problem unless you absolutely look like a slob.

Oof, OP, do not do this. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got is that you can disregard criticism that isn't offered in kindness. If these people had issues with you, it sounds like not one of them cared enough to talk to you one to one about any of it. And if they were lying about you or taking things you've done out of context, their opinion of you is suspect. You do not need to change your personality based on the gossip. You are right to drop them and invest energy in more loyal, genuine friends.

I had a friend many years ago who was doing some things that I became increasingly offended by/concerned about. She was on a personal high at the time (high paying job, had gotten into great shape, personal life going well) and she started lording it over other people, making fun of friends behind their backs, being very ostentatious about her spending both on social media and when hanging out with friends (i.e. super brand conscious and also condescending of other people's clothes/travel/cars if it wasn't as high end as hers), and just generally kind of being a pill. I had the guts to talk to her, because I genuinely liked her but couldn't overlook this behavior anymore. I did it privately and directly, not by just talking about her behind her back. She got defensive and our friendship fell apart soon after. But guess what? She stopped doing the stuff I complained about pretty fast, too. Stopped posting photos of all her purchases online, focused more energy on charitable outlets. I don't know if she stopped being nasty behind people's backs (I expect this is an outgrowth of her own insecurity and might be a harder habit to break) but from outwards appearances I think she made a turn for the better. Even though I'm sorry it ended our friendship, I have no regrets about talking to her. I really do think she was getting out of control and that might comments might have helped her reconsider how her behavior was impacting others.

If someone cares about you, they will pull you aside and let you know in person and privately if you are doing things that are hurtful. But anyone not willing to do that doesn't deserve your attention. It sounds like you have good sense of yourself. Forget these jerks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ouch what a punch in the gut. I am sorry I don’t have anything to say that you probably don’t already realize
-you have other friends, so know that “it’s not you, it’s them”.

I am sorry for this. Sounds really mean spirited. I hope these people are still in their twenties , hopefully not older than 35. To be that petty and shallow by age 40 is wrong. By 40 hopefully one learns to be confident, sincere, kind, appreciative.

Big hug from cyber space.

Make time for fun with new acquaintances and a few friendships will develop - if not no worries you had fun, got your mind of the bs.

Thank you, I really appreciate the support. I agree -- the whole thing blindsided me because it never occurred to me that people this age would be this gossipy. In retrospect I overlooked a lot of red flags.

The cruelty of these adult women takes my breath away. I’m so sorry. This is the kind of stuff that happened to me in middle school and in my twenties. Do not let them know how dark your life became. Do not give them this power.

Focusing on your healing, what red flags did you miss? Use this introspection to identify red and orange flags in your new life.

Read Queen Bee Moms and Kingpin Dads. You will recognize many of the people in your neighborhood.
https://www.amazon.com/Queen-Bee-Moms-Kingpin-Dads/dp/140008301X

NP. I read the first book by this author (Queen Bees & Wannabees) years ago, before I had kids, and had no idea she'd written others. I'm so glad she is looking at how parents contribute to this behavior in kids by acting it out themselves. I remember thinking about the first book that while it was about girls and teenagers, I knew dozens of adults (men and women) who play these exact same games at work and in social circles. It's so much more common than people are willing to admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look within yourself. Are there any truths in what they say? Is it something you can change. You change not for them but for the faults you don't see in yourself that others see.

It's like if others say I am just mean because I never respond to text or emails. If there are some truth to that, perhaps, it's a good reason they feel that way. If it's an opinion like they never like the way you are dressed, hey, that's mainly their problem unless you absolutely look like a slob.

Oof, OP, do not do this. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got is that you can disregard criticism that isn't offered in kindness. If these people had issues with you, it sounds like not one of them cared enough to talk to you one to one about any of it. And if they were lying about you or taking things you've done out of context, their opinion of you is suspect. You do not need to change your personality based on the gossip. You are right to drop them and invest energy in more loyal, genuine friends.

I had a friend many years ago who was doing some things that I became increasingly offended by/concerned about. She was on a personal high at the time (high paying job, had gotten into great shape, personal life going well) and she started lording it over other people, making fun of friends behind their backs, being very ostentatious about her spending both on social media and when hanging out with friends (i.e. super brand conscious and also condescending of other people's clothes/travel/cars if it wasn't as high end as hers), and just generally kind of being a pill. I had the guts to talk to her, because I genuinely liked her but couldn't overlook this behavior anymore. I did it privately and directly, not by just talking about her behind her back. She got defensive and our friendship fell apart soon after. But guess what? She stopped doing the stuff I complained about pretty fast, too. Stopped posting photos of all her purchases online, focused more energy on charitable outlets. I don't know if she stopped being nasty behind people's backs (I expect this is an outgrowth of her own insecurity and might be a harder habit to break) but from outwards appearances I think she made a turn for the better. Even though I'm sorry it ended our friendship, I have no regrets about talking to her. I really do think she was getting out of control and that might comments might have helped her reconsider how her behavior was impacting others.

If someone cares about you, they will pull you aside and let you know in person and privately if you are doing things that are hurtful. But anyone not willing to do that doesn't deserve your attention. It sounds like you have good sense of yourself. Forget these jerks.

you're a good friend! I treasure my besties because they will always give it to me straight when I deserve it.