Intimate after date night

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What "works"?

That depends on what the objective is.

OP has to decide what he is willing to live with and how much he is willing to sacrifice, and he basically needs to put his marriage on the line, since it already is, anyway.

Either he wants to live the rest of his years in a sexless marriage, with an indifferent spouse, or he doesn't. Only three other alternatives: divorce, open marriage, or she becomes more sexually open. The choice is really hers.

The choice to continue the status quo and do nothing about it is OP's, and he needs to stop complaining about it and actually do something.

Doing something doesn't mean more chore play, and it doesn't mean more ineffectual date nights.

It means setting forth very clearly what he wants sexually from his wife, and what he is going to do if she is unwilling to have sex with him on a reasonably regular basis.

If he's not willing to do anything, other than complain, and then reward her for the sexlessness by taking her out on more dates, and doing more chores, then in ten years he will be in the same place, except older, with fewer options.

The sad part is OP's wife is probably already cheating on him, or has cheated in the past, and carrying a torch for her lover. She has "fallen out of love" with OP and that generally doesn't happen unless there is another man in the picture.

This rabbit hole is deep and the only question is whether OP has the guts to go down and explore it, wherever that leads.

All you men who think you have to “lay down the law” and “take control” are so pathetic. Yes, it’s 2018 and if a woman isn’t turned on by you she doesn’t have to just to keep a roof over her head. I guess patriarchy was invented for insecure men like you.

— DW whose husband knows how to seduce (by which I mean all of me, body and soul)

If you're not turned on by your husband enough to have sex with him more than rarely, you shouldn't have gotten married to him in the first place. If you did, you're an idiot. If you're not turned on by your husband any longer, than please feel free to divorce him, or not, if you need to stay married for some reason, but then don't expect him to remain faithful.

As far as needing to "seduce" you, I assume if you were adequately attracted to your husband, he wouldn't have to play whatever mind games you mean by "seduction" just for you to want to have sex with him.

So maybe you should divorce him, unless you need that roof over your head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a typical marriage especially if the kids are still young. Too tired. When kids are a bit older and wife hits midlife and her hormones will go crazy, she will want sex every night.

Kids are in middle school. I had a friend who related his mid 40s wife had a sudden surge in libido midlife and the rest if us we're looking at him like he had three heads (and won the lottery). So while that spike does happen, my sense is it's very rare.

Wife doesn't want to have sex in the morning either or mid-week unless I really push for it. As I type this, seems like the answer is fairly obvious, my marriage isn't good and probably won't last (although wife seems happy, but who knows).

I created this post to get a sense of whether the lack of sex after date night is more normal than I thought or if it's likely another red flag that I should be seeing that our marriage is likely headed to an end.

Tell her that regular sex (2x or 3x) per week is a marital deal breaker for you. This might snap her out of the tired-Mommy fog, or at least you will know that she just wants a room mate, so there’s no need to take her on dates while you accelerate the end.

Nothing says turn-on more than an ultimatum. Really, if my husband came and laid down the law like that I'd be pissed.

Their marriage is headed towards destruction anyway but I say he owes her the chance to save it. But you advise he jumps directly to the divorce/cheating stage without ever getting honest? Well OK if that’s what you prefer but I think a sexless wife deserves at least a final chance.

My point is that no sex is a symptom and not a cause. Just saying "sex or I'm leaving" would make me really mad. They need to figure out what's up in a non-confrontational situation.

No sex is not just a "symptom." Nor is it a cause. It is the problem. No sex is the problem. The OP said it.

You can rationalize it all you want--the same way many non-sexual wives try to--but the problem is no sex.

Also, your response that him saying "No sex or I'm leaving" would make you really mad, is also typical of the privileged mentality that many wives seem to have. It would make you mad if your husband honestly expressed his expectations for the marriage, and the consequences should those expectations not be met?

Your getting mad is simply a form of emotional blackmail in response to the husband's honest expression of the situation from his perspective and the consequence of it not being satisfactorily resolved.

Get mad all you want. When you are done getting mad, what do you think that your getting mad accomplished?

Obviously you must think that your getting mad would influence the spouse to back down on his ultimatum. I.E. emotional blackmail, but with the net outcome of no sex.

So that wouldn't solve the problem, it would simply continue the problem.

Instead of getting mad, if your spouse tells you he needs more sex, your obligation as a spouse who wants the marriage to continue is to have sex with your spouse.

I think you can carve out 15 minutes from your day 2 -3 times per week to have sex with the person you married.

Anyone who doesn't is an unreasonable loon.

I think that you and I are interpreting ultimatum in a different way because, to me, it is its own form of blackmail. An ultimatum is not delivered in a "heartfelt" manner. It is an expression of anger in and of itself that results in two people being backed into their respective corners. No sex is definitely a symptom of other, larger issues in the relationship and you won't be able to convince me otherwise. Many, many women are not dying to have sex with their husbands but do it because they love them and want them to be happy.

[Anonymous]

Offer to go down on her. And send her sexy texts during the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a typical marriage especially if the kids are still young. Too tired. When kids are a bit older and wife hits midlife and her hormones will go crazy, she will want sex every night.

Kids are in middle school. I had a friend who related his mid 40s wife had a sudden surge in libido midlife and the rest if us we're looking at him like he had three heads (and won the lottery). So while that spike does happen, my sense is it's very rare.

Wife doesn't want to have sex in the morning either or mid-week unless I really push for it. As I type this, seems like the answer is fairly obvious, my marriage isn't good and probably won't last (although wife seems happy, but who knows).

I created this post to get a sense of whether the lack of sex after date night is more normal than I thought or if it's likely another red flag that I should be seeing that our marriage is likely headed to an end.

Tell her that regular sex (2x or 3x) per week is a marital deal breaker for you. This might snap her out of the tired-Mommy fog, or at least you will know that she just wants a room mate, so there’s no need to take her on dates while you accelerate the end.

Nothing says turn-on more than an ultimatum. Really, if my husband came and laid down the law like that I'd be pissed.

Their marriage is headed towards destruction anyway but I say he owes her the chance to save it. But you advise he jumps directly to the divorce/cheating stage without ever getting honest? Well OK if that’s what you prefer but I think a sexless wife deserves at least a final chance.

My point is that no sex is a symptom and not a cause. Just saying "sex or I'm leaving" would make me really mad. They need to figure out what's up in a non-confrontational situation.

Your trite advise rings hollow of any actual advice. You don’t know what’s a symptom or cause. And neither does he, otherwise he would not be here seeking advice. The only person who knows “why” is his sexless wife and she’s not saying much. She clearly needs an ultimatum in order to find her big girl voice and/or figure her shit out.

[Anonymous]

OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a typical marriage especially if the kids are still young. Too tired. When kids are a bit older and wife hits midlife and her hormones will go crazy, she will want sex every night.

Kids are in middle school. I had a friend who related his mid 40s wife had a sudden surge in libido midlife and the rest if us we're looking at him like he had three heads (and won the lottery). So while that spike does happen, my sense is it's very rare.

Wife doesn't want to have sex in the morning either or mid-week unless I really push for it. As I type this, seems like the answer is fairly obvious, my marriage isn't good and probably won't last (although wife seems happy, but who knows).

I created this post to get a sense of whether the lack of sex after date night is more normal than I thought or if it's likely another red flag that I should be seeing that our marriage is likely headed to an end.

Tell her that regular sex (2x or 3x) per week is a marital deal breaker for you. This might snap her out of the tired-Mommy fog, or at least you will know that she just wants a room mate, so there’s no need to take her on dates while you accelerate the end.

Nothing says turn-on more than an ultimatum. Really, if my husband came and laid down the law like that I'd be pissed.

Their marriage is headed towards destruction anyway but I say he owes her the chance to save it. But you advise he jumps directly to the divorce/cheating stage without ever getting honest? Well OK if that’s what you prefer but I think a sexless wife deserves at least a final chance.

My point is that no sex is a symptom and not a cause. Just saying "sex or I'm leaving" would make me really mad. They need to figure out what's up in a non-confrontational situation.

Your trite advise rings hollow of any actual advice. You don’t know what’s a symptom or cause. And neither does he, otherwise he would not be here seeking advice. The only person who knows “why” is his sexless wife and she’s not saying much. She clearly needs an ultimatum in order to find her big girl voice and/or figure her shit out.

Fine don’t take it but coercive sex does not bode well for the long term health of a relationship. Sex (or the lack thereof) is always a manifestation of something else whether that be desire, lust, love, power, fear, etc.

[Anonymous]

I often ask me husband “how about a date tonight” which doesn’t mean we are going to go out. It simply means I’d like sex. Too often when we go out to dinner I feel too full to enjoy sex.

[Anonymous]

We do it before we go out. Way too tired when we get home. DH takes way too long after drinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a typical marriage especially if the kids are still young. Too tired. When kids are a bit older and wife hits midlife and her hormones will go crazy, she will want sex every night.

Kids are in middle school. I had a friend who related his mid 40s wife had a sudden surge in libido midlife and the rest if us we're looking at him like he had three heads (and won the lottery). So while that spike does happen, my sense is it's very rare.

Wife doesn't want to have sex in the morning either or mid-week unless I really push for it. As I type this, seems like the answer is fairly obvious, my marriage isn't good and probably won't last (although wife seems happy, but who knows).

I created this post to get a sense of whether the lack of sex after date night is more normal than I thought or if it's likely another red flag that I should be seeing that our marriage is likely headed to an end.

Tell her that regular sex (2x or 3x) per week is a marital deal breaker for you. This might snap her out of the tired-Mommy fog, or at least you will know that she just wants a room mate, so there’s no need to take her on dates while you accelerate the end.

Nothing says turn-on more than an ultimatum. Really, if my husband came and laid down the law like that I'd be pissed.

Their marriage is headed towards destruction anyway but I say he owes her the chance to save it. But you advise he jumps directly to the divorce/cheating stage without ever getting honest? Well OK if that’s what you prefer but I think a sexless wife deserves at least a final chance.

My point is that no sex is a symptom and not a cause. Just saying "sex or I'm leaving" would make me really mad. They need to figure out what's up in a non-confrontational situation.

Your trite advise rings hollow of any actual advice. You don’t know what’s a symptom or cause. And neither does he, otherwise he would not be here seeking advice. The only person who knows “why” is his sexless wife and she’s not saying much. She clearly needs an ultimatum in order to find her big girl voice and/or figure her shit out.

Fine don’t take it but coercive sex does not bode well for the long term health of a relationship. Sex (or the lack thereof) is always a manifestation of something else whether that be desire, lust, love, power, fear, etc.

You’ve had 3 tries yet still have said nothing at all that is remotely useful (ie actionable). So you have offered nothing to “take”!! It’s not coercive sex for a wife who has a low libido, but loves her non-asshole husband, to say Yes once or twice per week. Many PP women have said exactly this. Sometimes a sexless wife needs a glimpse of her future (life as a divorced mom with no man around, less stable housing and finances, and forget about date nights !!! ) before she realizes that hey a nice orgasm might be fun maybe I could put down the iPad for a change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Uh, this does not mean you're good in bed. You can always up your game. Guys who think they're God's gift to women rarely know or even truly try how to make a woman happy in bed. All this whining about women not wanting it enough, what have you done that would incline her to want it? If sex is good you want it. If it's meh, especially if you're a working wife with kids, you probably don't.

[Anonymous]

Read Mating in Captivity OP, then listen to some ted talks with ester perrell and help your relationship get back on track.

I agree with the reasonable posters who are warning you nothing good comes from ultimatum sex. Surely even if your wife agrees to that, it won’t make you happy to feel like you had to coerce her into getting it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless husbands are total assholes I have trouble understanding women who don’t occasionally have sex even if they aren’t in the mood. My libido is lower than my DH’s, he’s a good partner and a great dad. Sometimes he’ll initiate and while I’m not in the mood I can “fake it till I make it.” I don’t fake orgasms but I can be an enthusiastic partner even if I’m not initially into it. I do it bc it’s important to him and I love him.

I've done that for a while and it didn't work. For the last couple of years in our marriage, I had sex with DH whenever he asked, regardless of how I felt. What happened was at the end of two years, I became utterly numb sexually. I orgasmed just fine with self-pleasure but DH's touch felt like nothing even when he tried. I guess that was because I came to think of myself as a provider of sexual pleasure and not its object.

So I stopped completely. Took a long break. Decided that I am never having sex again unless I feel like it. It doesn't have to be throat-clutching but if I don't feel even a tiny spark of desire, I don't hesitate to say no. It did wonders for my libido to be allowed to run free again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wife here. If we have a special evening, or I know DH is wanting it, I make a point to be available. I went through a horrible menopause, he was patient, and now that things are better for me, we are back to 2 times a week.

What helped you overcome menopause symptoms? HRT?

Yes, and an OTC cream. The HRT is pill form. The cream did nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife’s love language is sleep. Actually, it is acts of service too, and here is how that works: many acts of service I do, she doesn’t even notice. The other ones I do, she often notes only happened after she complained about them. So I can’t win.

My love language is physical touch, and we are sexless. We touch, caress, kiss, but the line is drawn at sex. No interest from her (55). FML

Are you asking why? You deserve a response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You’ve had 3 tries yet still have said nothing at all that is remotely useful (ie actionable). So you have offered nothing to “take”!! It’s not coercive sex for a wife who has a low libido, but loves her non-asshole husband, to say Yes once or twice per week. Many PP women have said exactly this. Sometimes a sexless wife needs a glimpse of her future (life as a divorced mom with no man around, less stable housing and finances, and forget about date nights !!! ) before she realizes that hey a nice orgasm might be fun maybe I could put down the iPad for a change.

Or maybe she realizes life will be a lot better without a man child around to create more work for her, and abuse his way into getting laid.

My life as a divorced mom is fantastic: my house is clean and maintained, my kids live in a calm and stable home, I have a healthy bank account (despite my very gainfully-employed ex being 9 months behind on CS), because i’m not not bleeding money on his financial mishaps, and every other Saturday, I have a free babysitter so I can have a glass of wine and an orgasm with a nice, attractive divorced man who is generally respectful towards me.