Intimate after date night

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a woman, and while I disagree with the undertones of 7:32’s post, I also don’t like the concept of “date night” for married couples as it seems to exacerbate a lot of issues, and I agree that you should unlink sex from going out as a couple.

You should be doing both regularly, to maintain different parts of your relationship, but unless there is a communicated underlying reason, you should be having sex more than once a week (or however often you go out).

Have you had a clothed, non-confrontational conversation about what that underlying issue is? Have you jointly taken any steps to mitigate it? No results? Time for another clothed, non-confrontational conversation...

To a point. If you get to the point where the excuses keep coming, or the problem is addressed but the sex still isn’t coming (within reason), you need to decide what you want to do with the rest of your life.

I’m sorry you are dealing with this...

OP here, the reason I mention date night with the potential of sex is because, for example, if I initiate mid week after kids in bed she claims it's tough to transition from Mom to wife and needs time to feel connected. So date night in theory should give us time to reconnect, to be playful, have a drink, separate kids out, etc. But that doesn't work either.

I hate to say this, but some women really appreciate chore play. She might be exhausted because once the kids go to bed she does the dishes and straightens up the house before she is able to go to bed. And it would make many women resentful of their husbands if he doesn’t help take some of this off her plate.

Women who actually want to have sex with their husbands have been known to leave the dirty dishes in the sink.

Did that just last night. After sex, DH loaded the dishwasher and brought us dessert. If you want it, you will make time for it.

[Anonymous]

Are all of these women's husbands terrible in bed or something? I'm not always thinking about sex when my husband makes his overtures, but I can get in the mood pretty quick because he's good at turning me on. I feel sorry for all these people in mismatched marriages. Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a typical marriage especially if the kids are still young. Too tired. When kids are a bit older and wife hits midlife and her hormones will go crazy, she will want sex every night.

Kids are in middle school. I had a friend who related his mid 40s wife had a sudden surge in libido midlife and the rest if us we're looking at him like he had three heads (and won the lottery). So while that spike does happen, my sense is it's very rare.

Wife doesn't want to have sex in the morning either or mid-week unless I really push for it. As I type this, seems like the answer is fairly obvious, my marriage isn't good and probably won't last (although wife seems happy, but who knows).

I created this post to get a sense of whether the lack of sex after date night is more normal than I thought or if it's likely another red flag that I should be seeing that our marriage is likely headed to an end.

Tell her that regular sex (2x or 3x) per week is a marital deal breaker for you. This might snap her out of the tired-Mommy fog, or at least you will know that she just wants a room mate, so there’s no need to take her on dates while you accelerate the end.

Nothing says turn-on more than an ultimatum. Really, if my husband came and laid down the law like that I'd be pissed.

Their marriage is headed towards destruction anyway but I say he owes her the chance to save it. But you advise he jumps directly to the divorce/cheating stage without ever getting honest? Well OK if that’s what you prefer but I think a sexless wife deserves at least a final chance.

My point is that no sex is a symptom and not a cause. Just saying "sex or I'm leaving" would make me really mad. They need to figure out what's up in a non-confrontational situation.

Your trite advise rings hollow of any actual advice. You don’t know what’s a symptom or cause. And neither does he, otherwise he would not be here seeking advice. The only person who knows “why” is his sexless wife and she’s not saying much. She clearly needs an ultimatum in order to find her big girl voice and/or figure her shit out.

Fine don’t take it but coercive sex does not bode well for the long term health of a relationship. Sex (or the lack thereof) is always a manifestation of something else whether that be desire, lust, love, power, fear, etc.

You’ve had 3 tries yet still have said nothing at all that is remotely useful (ie actionable). So you have offered nothing to “take”!! It’s not coercive sex for a wife who has a low libido, but loves her non-asshole husband, to say Yes once or twice per week. Many PP women have said exactly this. Sometimes a sexless wife needs a glimpse of her future (life as a divorced mom with no man around, less stable housing and finances, and forget about date nights !!! ) before she realizes that hey a nice orgasm might be fun maybe I could put down the iPad for a change.

I've offered the same advice multiple times. It's you that is too obtuse to understand. You need to talk to your wife to understand what's going on rather than laying down the law. There is always something at the root of no sex relationships. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of listening to a few episodes of Esther Perel's podcast. Very interesting and instructive. Long term, you cannot "demand services" your way out of this problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a typical marriage especially if the kids are still young. Too tired. When kids are a bit older and wife hits midlife and her hormones will go crazy, she will want sex every night.

Kids are in middle school. I had a friend who related his mid 40s wife had a sudden surge in libido midlife and the rest if us we're looking at him like he had three heads (and won the lottery). So while that spike does happen, my sense is it's very rare.

Wife doesn't want to have sex in the morning either or mid-week unless I really push for it. As I type this, seems like the answer is fairly obvious, my marriage isn't good and probably won't last (although wife seems happy, but who knows).

I created this post to get a sense of whether the lack of sex after date night is more normal than I thought or if it's likely another red flag that I should be seeing that our marriage is likely headed to an end.

Tell her that regular sex (2x or 3x) per week is a marital deal breaker for you. This might snap her out of the tired-Mommy fog, or at least you will know that she just wants a room mate, so there’s no need to take her on dates while you accelerate the end.

Nothing says turn-on more than an ultimatum. Really, if my husband came and laid down the law like that I'd be pissed.

Their marriage is headed towards destruction anyway but I say he owes her the chance to save it. But you advise he jumps directly to the divorce/cheating stage without ever getting honest? Well OK if that’s what you prefer but I think a sexless wife deserves at least a final chance.

My point is that no sex is a symptom and not a cause. Just saying "sex or I'm leaving" would make me really mad. They need to figure out what's up in a non-confrontational situation.

Your trite advise rings hollow of any actual advice. You don’t know what’s a symptom or cause. And neither does he, otherwise he would not be here seeking advice. The only person who knows “why” is his sexless wife and she’s not saying much. She clearly needs an ultimatum in order to find her big girl voice and/or figure her shit out.

Fine don’t take it but coercive sex does not bode well for the long term health of a relationship. Sex (or the lack thereof) is always a manifestation of something else whether that be desire, lust, love, power, fear, etc.

You’ve had 3 tries yet still have said nothing at all that is remotely useful (ie actionable). So you have offered nothing to “take”!! It’s not coercive sex for a wife who has a low libido, but loves her non-asshole husband, to say Yes once or twice per week. Many PP women have said exactly this. Sometimes a sexless wife needs a glimpse of her future (life as a divorced mom with no man around, less stable housing and finances, and forget about date nights !!! ) before she realizes that hey a nice orgasm might be fun maybe I could put down the iPad for a change.

Jesus Christ, look at the ego on you. You think that women should put out for a roof over her house? I stay with my husband because I love him, not because I need his money. That's retrograde thinking on your part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a woman, and while I disagree with the undertones of 7:32’s post, I also don’t like the concept of “date night” for married couples as it seems to exacerbate a lot of issues, and I agree that you should unlink sex from going out as a couple.

You should be doing both regularly, to maintain different parts of your relationship, but unless there is a communicated underlying reason, you should be having sex more than once a week (or however often you go out).

Have you had a clothed, non-confrontational conversation about what that underlying issue is? Have you jointly taken any steps to mitigate it? No results? Time for another clothed, non-confrontational conversation...

To a point. If you get to the point where the excuses keep coming, or the problem is addressed but the sex still isn’t coming (within reason), you need to decide what you want to do with the rest of your life.

I’m sorry you are dealing with this...

OP here, the reason I mention date night with the potential of sex is because, for example, if I initiate mid week after kids in bed she claims it's tough to transition from Mom to wife and needs time to feel connected. So date night in theory should give us time to reconnect, to be playful, have a drink, separate kids out, etc. But that doesn't work either.

I hate to say this, but some women really appreciate chore play. She might be exhausted because once the kids go to bed she does the dishes and straightens up the house before she is able to go to bed. And it would make many women resentful of their husbands if he doesn’t help take some of this off her plate.

Women who actually want to have sex with their husbands have been known to leave the dirty dishes in the sink.

Did that just last night. After sex, DH loaded the dishwasher and brought us dessert. If you want it, you will make time for it.

When my husband and I play golf we play for sexual favors as our betting. If I win he does the dishes! If he wins I give him strokes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You’ve had 3 tries yet still have said nothing at all that is remotely useful (ie actionable). So you have offered nothing to “take”!! It’s not coercive sex for a wife who has a low libido, but loves her non-asshole husband, to say Yes once or twice per week. Many PP women have said exactly this. Sometimes a sexless wife needs a glimpse of her future (life as a divorced mom with no man around, less stable housing and finances, and forget about date nights !!! ) before she realizes that hey a nice orgasm might be fun maybe I could put down the iPad for a change.

Er...what? You say this like the rules of gravity don't apply to men! The sex-starved DH too will be a divorced man with less stable housing and finances, and if he gets custody, he can forget about date nights too, divorced men with children aren't exactly hot commodity you know. If he doesn't get custody, then he'll get the dubious pleasure of having no control over the way his children are raised. Let's not pretend divorce is painless for me - why else do so many of them stay you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Not your first as in you were a virgin.

Your first as in your first long term relationship in which you obtained regular sex from your partner. You may have had lots of experience in terms of many short term sexual relationships. Since you were in your early 20s when you started with your wife, how many long term serious relationships had you been in prior to your wife.

You say she had some too "probably" meaning you don't really know. Which also means there was no disclosure of prior sexual histories before you got serious with her, or even right up to the present. So you don't really know what her history of relationships was either, because you never exchanged that information with her.

Many women slacken on wanting a lot of sex (or any sex, sometimes) when in pregnancy or for a while after giving birth.

But not for ten years. That has nothing to do with childbirth or pregnancy.

You didn't have to put up with this for 10 years. You chose to put up with it for ten years. You're still putting up with it.

It's really all about behavior modification. For whatever reason, your wife modified your behavior when she modified hers. She decided less sex--almost no sex, really--would be the new status quo, and you accepted it.

For ten years.

You accepted it for ten years because you were, and are, afraid of your wife. She dominates your relationship,and probably always has. Your fears may be justified to the extent you are afraid of divorce and loss of your assets. Whatever the reason for your fear--you FEAR your wife.

Maybe it's psychological. Maybe deep down you are afraid you couldn't find another woman to love you. Who knows.

It's tragic that you actually agreed to a vasectomy because you were so sex-starved you thought you had no alternative. This amounts to literal physical castration of a sort, as well as emotional castration.

Your wife, far from assuming you are or will cheat on her, KNOWS you will not. She knows you better than you know yourself. Or at least she doesn't think you capable of it. You are fantasizing about it, as anyone would.

You say you don't feel trapped, but it actually sounds like you are trapped, but don't want to admit it. You reserve to yourself the illusion that you are in control of the situation, that you could leave anytime.

You're not in control of the situation.

You're so not in control of the situation, you are so fearful of your wife, that you are terrified of demanding sexual fulfillment from your wife.

I am guessing you had a very domineering mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What "works"?

That depends on what the objective is.

OP has to decide what he is willing to live with and how much he is willing to sacrifice, and he basically needs to put his marriage on the line, since it already is, anyway.

Either he wants to live the rest of his years in a sexless marriage, with an indifferent spouse, or he doesn't. Only three other alternatives: divorce, open marriage, or she becomes more sexually open. The choice is really hers.

The choice to continue the status quo and do nothing about it is OP's, and he needs to stop complaining about it and actually do something.

Doing something doesn't mean more chore play, and it doesn't mean more ineffectual date nights.

It means setting forth very clearly what he wants sexually from his wife, and what he is going to do if she is unwilling to have sex with him on a reasonably regular basis.

If he's not willing to do anything, other than complain, and then reward her for the sexlessness by taking her out on more dates, and doing more chores, then in ten years he will be in the same place, except older, with fewer options.

The sad part is OP's wife is probably already cheating on him, or has cheated in the past, and carrying a torch for her lover. She has "fallen out of love" with OP and that generally doesn't happen unless there is another man in the picture.

This rabbit hole is deep and the only question is whether OP has the guts to go down and explore it, wherever that leads.

All you men who think you have to “lay down the law” and “take control” are so pathetic. Yes, it’s 2018 and if a woman isn’t turned on by you she doesn’t have to just to keep a roof over her head. I guess patriarchy was invented for insecure men like you.

— DW whose husband knows how to seduce (by which I mean all of me, body and soul)

If you're not turned on by your husband enough to have sex with him more than rarely, you shouldn't have gotten married to him in the first place. If you did, you're an idiot. If you're not turned on by your husband any longer, than please feel free to divorce him, or not, if you need to stay married for some reason, but then don't expect him to remain faithful.

As far as needing to "seduce" you, I assume if you were adequately attracted to your husband, he wouldn't have to play whatever mind games you mean by "seduction" just for you to want to have sex with him.

So maybe you should divorce him, unless you need that roof over your head.

LOL you sound like such a winner, PP. I bet the ladies love you.

As for seduction...my husband is not American. He takes a more playful approach to life. A conversation can be seduction. A look. Anything fun. It is about enjoying each other, the more you have fun and love the closer you feel.

This thread is a sad look into the mind of insecure masculinity. OP, take note — being insecure and dictating terms to your partner is not fun or sexy. Unless you have agreed to play that game, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Not your first as in you were a virgin.

Your first as in your first long term relationship in which you obtained regular sex from your partner. You may have had lots of experience in terms of many short term sexual relationships. Since you were in your early 20s when you started with your wife, how many long term serious relationships had you been in prior to your wife.

You say she had some too "probably" meaning you don't really know. Which also means there was no disclosure of prior sexual histories before you got serious with her, or even right up to the present. So you don't really know what her history of relationships was either, because you never exchanged that information with her.

Many women slacken on wanting a lot of sex (or any sex, sometimes) when in pregnancy or for a while after giving birth.

But not for ten years. That has nothing to do with childbirth or pregnancy.

You didn't have to put up with this for 10 years. You chose to put up with it for ten years. You're still putting up with it.

It's really all about behavior modification. For whatever reason, your wife modified your behavior when she modified hers. She decided less sex--almost no sex, really--would be the new status quo, and you accepted it.

For ten years.

You accepted it for ten years because you were, and are, afraid of your wife. She dominates your relationship,and probably always has. Your fears may be justified to the extent you are afraid of divorce and loss of your assets. Whatever the reason for your fear--you FEAR your wife.

Maybe it's psychological. Maybe deep down you are afraid you couldn't find another woman to love you. Who knows.

It's tragic that you actually agreed to a vasectomy because you were so sex-starved you thought you had no alternative. This amounts to literal physical castration of a sort, as well as emotional castration.

Your wife, far from assuming you are or will cheat on her, KNOWS you will not. She knows you better than you know yourself. Or at least she doesn't think you capable of it. You are fantasizing about it, as anyone would.

You say you don't feel trapped, but it actually sounds like you are trapped, but don't want to admit it. You reserve to yourself the illusion that you are in control of the situation, that you could leave anytime.

You're not in control of the situation.

You're so not in control of the situation, you are so fearful of your wife, that you are terrified of demanding sexual fulfillment from your wife.

I am guessing you had a very domineering mother.

I am guessing you don’t get much, which is why you have so much pent up frustration against women/ your domineering mother. Please seek help from a therapist — these posts are very misogynistic. You are projecting a lot of darkness that simply isn’t there. This is all in your head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I often ask me husband “how about a date tonight” which doesn’t mean we are going to go out. It simply means I’d like sex. Too often when we go out to dinner I feel too full to enjoy sex.

And even in sleazy bars nowadays, a glass of wine costs what--$8.00/glass????? When did THAT happen, someone forgot to tell me!

It doesn't put me in a very good mood if we go out for burgers and two or three drinks even to a dive bar and end up with a $100.00 tab!!!

What a rip off.

I like those dates where we just stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Not your first as in you were a virgin.

Your first as in your first long term relationship in which you obtained regular sex from your partner. You may have had lots of experience in terms of many short term sexual relationships. Since you were in your early 20s when you started with your wife, how many long term serious relationships had you been in prior to your wife.

You say she had some too "probably" meaning you don't really know. Which also means there was no disclosure of prior sexual histories before you got serious with her, or even right up to the present. So you don't really know what her history of relationships was either, because you never exchanged that information with her.

Many women slacken on wanting a lot of sex (or any sex, sometimes) when in pregnancy or for a while after giving birth.

But not for ten years. That has nothing to do with childbirth or pregnancy.

You didn't have to put up with this for 10 years. You chose to put up with it for ten years. You're still putting up with it.

It's really all about behavior modification. For whatever reason, your wife modified your behavior when she modified hers. She decided less sex--almost no sex, really--would be the new status quo, and you accepted it.

For ten years.

You accepted it for ten years because you were, and are, afraid of your wife. She dominates your relationship,and probably always has. Your fears may be justified to the extent you are afraid of divorce and loss of your assets. Whatever the reason for your fear--you FEAR your wife.

Maybe it's psychological. Maybe deep down you are afraid you couldn't find another woman to love you. Who knows.

It's tragic that you actually agreed to a vasectomy because you were so sex-starved you thought you had no alternative. This amounts to literal physical castration of a sort, as well as emotional castration.

Your wife, far from assuming you are or will cheat on her, KNOWS you will not. She knows you better than you know yourself. Or at least she doesn't think you capable of it. You are fantasizing about it, as anyone would.

You say you don't feel trapped, but it actually sounds like you are trapped, but don't want to admit it. You reserve to yourself the illusion that you are in control of the situation, that you could leave anytime.

You're not in control of the situation.

You're so not in control of the situation, you are so fearful of your wife, that you are terrified of demanding sexual fulfillment from your wife.

I am guessing you had a very domineering mother.

I am guessing you don’t get much, which is why you have so much pent up frustration against women/ your domineering mother. Please seek help from a therapist — these posts are very misogynistic. You are projecting a lot of darkness that simply isn’t there. This is all in your head.

Now, now. Just as soon as he gets a girlfriend he's going to have the most sex of any man ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Look, this board is all theory. If you are that curious, then give it a try. I suggest sex therapist (go by yourself if wife won’t go and see if you can get tips) and read a book about women’s sexuality like She Comes First. I suspect from the conversations that you have described that there are other communication issues in the marriage. Sexuality for women is often a big picture thing. If you’re having anger issues or money stress or other things that create tension in the relationship, that will impact your sex life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What "works"?

That depends on what the objective is.

OP has to decide what he is willing to live with and how much he is willing to sacrifice, and he basically needs to put his marriage on the line, since it already is, anyway.

Either he wants to live the rest of his years in a sexless marriage, with an indifferent spouse, or he doesn't. Only three other alternatives: divorce, open marriage, or she becomes more sexually open. The choice is really hers.

The choice to continue the status quo and do nothing about it is OP's, and he needs to stop complaining about it and actually do something.

Doing something doesn't mean more chore play, and it doesn't mean more ineffectual date nights.

It means setting forth very clearly what he wants sexually from his wife, and what he is going to do if she is unwilling to have sex with him on a reasonably regular basis.

If he's not willing to do anything, other than complain, and then reward her for the sexlessness by taking her out on more dates, and doing more chores, then in ten years he will be in the same place, except older, with fewer options.

The sad part is OP's wife is probably already cheating on him, or has cheated in the past, and carrying a torch for her lover. She has "fallen out of love" with OP and that generally doesn't happen unless there is another man in the picture.

This rabbit hole is deep and the only question is whether OP has the guts to go down and explore it, wherever that leads.

All you men who think you have to “lay down the law” and “take control” are so pathetic. Yes, it’s 2018 and if a woman isn’t turned on by you she doesn’t have to just to keep a roof over her head. I guess patriarchy was invented for insecure men like you.

— DW whose husband knows how to seduce (by which I mean all of me, body and soul)

If you're not turned on by your husband enough to have sex with him more than rarely, you shouldn't have gotten married to him in the first place. If you did, you're an idiot. If you're not turned on by your husband any longer, than please feel free to divorce him, or not, if you need to stay married for some reason, but then don't expect him to remain faithful.

As far as needing to "seduce" you, I assume if you were adequately attracted to your husband, he wouldn't have to play whatever mind games you mean by "seduction" just for you to want to have sex with him.

So maybe you should divorce him, unless you need that roof over your head.

LOL you sound like such a winner, PP. I bet the ladies love you.

As for seduction...my husband is not American. He takes a more playful approach to life. A conversation can be seduction. A look. Anything fun. It is about enjoying each other, the more you have fun and love the closer you feel.

This thread is a sad look into the mind of insecure masculinity. OP, take note — being insecure and dictating terms to your partner is not fun or sexy. Unless you have agreed to play that game, of course.

I'm glad you finally found someone, even if it was a green card thing, it's understandable if you couldn't attract an American that you would need to be very practical to land a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Not your first as in you were a virgin.

Your first as in your first long term relationship in which you obtained regular sex from your partner. You may have had lots of experience in terms of many short term sexual relationships. Since you were in your early 20s when you started with your wife, how many long term serious relationships had you been in prior to your wife.

You say she had some too "probably" meaning you don't really know. Which also means there was no disclosure of prior sexual histories before you got serious with her, or even right up to the present. So you don't really know what her history of relationships was either, because you never exchanged that information with her.

Many women slacken on wanting a lot of sex (or any sex, sometimes) when in pregnancy or for a while after giving birth.

But not for ten years. That has nothing to do with childbirth or pregnancy.

You didn't have to put up with this for 10 years. You chose to put up with it for ten years. You're still putting up with it.

It's really all about behavior modification. For whatever reason, your wife modified your behavior when she modified hers. She decided less sex--almost no sex, really--would be the new status quo, and you accepted it.

For ten years.

You accepted it for ten years because you were, and are, afraid of your wife. She dominates your relationship,and probably always has. Your fears may be justified to the extent you are afraid of divorce and loss of your assets. Whatever the reason for your fear--you FEAR your wife.

Maybe it's psychological. Maybe deep down you are afraid you couldn't find another woman to love you. Who knows.

It's tragic that you actually agreed to a vasectomy because you were so sex-starved you thought you had no alternative. This amounts to literal physical castration of a sort, as well as emotional castration.

Your wife, far from assuming you are or will cheat on her, KNOWS you will not. She knows you better than you know yourself. Or at least she doesn't think you capable of it. You are fantasizing about it, as anyone would.

You say you don't feel trapped, but it actually sounds like you are trapped, but don't want to admit it. You reserve to yourself the illusion that you are in control of the situation, that you could leave anytime.

You're not in control of the situation.

You're so not in control of the situation, you are so fearful of your wife, that you are terrified of demanding sexual fulfillment from your wife.

I am guessing you had a very domineering mother.

I am guessing you don’t get much, which is why you have so much pent up frustration against women/ your domineering mother. Please seek help from a therapist — these posts are very misogynistic. You are projecting a lot of darkness that simply isn’t there. This is all in your head.

Now, now. Just as soon as he gets a girlfriend he's going to have the most sex of any man ever.

I’m laughing, but honestly those posts are creeping me out! Getting a sick vibe from all this talk about control and fear. Jeez, lighten up. It’s sex, it’s supposed to be fun. Not like kidnap an underaged woman and lock her in your basement since the only way you can get a woman to spend time with you is with force.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Not your first as in you were a virgin.

Your first as in your first long term relationship in which you obtained regular sex from your partner. You may have had lots of experience in terms of many short term sexual relationships. Since you were in your early 20s when you started with your wife, how many long term serious relationships had you been in prior to your wife.

You say she had some too "probably" meaning you don't really know. Which also means there was no disclosure of prior sexual histories before you got serious with her, or even right up to the present. So you don't really know what her history of relationships was either, because you never exchanged that information with her.

Many women slacken on wanting a lot of sex (or any sex, sometimes) when in pregnancy or for a while after giving birth.

But not for ten years. That has nothing to do with childbirth or pregnancy.

You didn't have to put up with this for 10 years. You chose to put up with it for ten years. You're still putting up with it.

It's really all about behavior modification. For whatever reason, your wife modified your behavior when she modified hers. She decided less sex--almost no sex, really--would be the new status quo, and you accepted it.

For ten years.

You accepted it for ten years because you were, and are, afraid of your wife. She dominates your relationship,and probably always has. Your fears may be justified to the extent you are afraid of divorce and loss of your assets. Whatever the reason for your fear--you FEAR your wife.

Maybe it's psychological. Maybe deep down you are afraid you couldn't find another woman to love you. Who knows.

It's tragic that you actually agreed to a vasectomy because you were so sex-starved you thought you had no alternative. This amounts to literal physical castration of a sort, as well as emotional castration.

Your wife, far from assuming you are or will cheat on her, KNOWS you will not. She knows you better than you know yourself. Or at least she doesn't think you capable of it. You are fantasizing about it, as anyone would.

You say you don't feel trapped, but it actually sounds like you are trapped, but don't want to admit it. You reserve to yourself the illusion that you are in control of the situation, that you could leave anytime.

You're not in control of the situation.

You're so not in control of the situation, you are so fearful of your wife, that you are terrified of demanding sexual fulfillment from your wife.

I am guessing you had a very domineering mother.

I am guessing you don’t get much, which is why you have so much pent up frustration against women/ your domineering mother. Please seek help from a therapist — these posts are very misogynistic. You are projecting a lot of darkness that simply isn’t there. This is all in your head.

Right because never getting to have sex with the woman you married (Op's problem) makes every day sunny, fun filled with unicorns and rainbows.

ESPECIALLY when you thought getting your masculinity surgically altered would finally get you sex with your wife, but didn't.

The only misogynist is someone who believes that wives should be told that they shouldn't have regular sex with their husbands. You must really hate OP's wife, and hence be a misogynist, if you believe she deserves a sexless life.