Resentment - impasse over home improvement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why you cannot do it without husband? It took me 4 years to completely gut and re-do all 4 bathrooms in our house. I just finished my master bathroom and I totally love it. Husband refused to get involved. I am looking at the kitchen now. I gave a an inexpensive face lift 4 years ago, I will start pricing a full remodel next year and planning to gut it out in 2-3 years. Just do it if this is important for you.

And did you pay for this all by yourself?

Yes, I did. I make three times more than my federal employee husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Needing the latest fashion in a kitchen is weird & wasteful.

y
What’s weird is living with a broken kitchen when you don’t have to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are your current kitchen and bathrooms non-functional or just out of date?

I guess they function. There is a huge long crack in our old kitchen granite and some of the cabinets don’t close properly. The grout in the bathrooms is missing or discolored in many places. And yes everything is from the 90’s.

But I think what bothers me is that this is important to me and he just does not care. He thinks I should just get over it and see things his way, the only correct way to see the situation.

What percentage of annual HHI do you earn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point you are going to sell the house and you’d need to upgrade the kitchen and bathrooms to get full value, and not just repainting the cabinets. Many buyers will not want to take on the project so you are limiting the audience. Doing it now will save you money in the long run and you will get to enjoy it. Come up with a redo and timing that is the least disruptive to your living there.

OP here. I know all of this and have said it all repeatedly. Falls on deaf ears. I feel confident that rationale and common sense are on my side. It doesn’t matter - it’s like talking to a brick wall on this subject. He’s perfectly pleasant on other subjects. Funny, a good father. We take vacations, he doesn’t nit pick day to day household spending. But any mention of this and he’s just like “mmm hmmm, that’s nice, but NO.”

What does he value? Say NO to whatever it is he wants to buy or do.

Sadly, he values growing numbers on a balance sheet. He wins, I lose. I do work, but he makes way more. I am by far the primary parent though and handle the mental load, the food planning/shopping/prepping and most of the cleaning.

You’ve capitulated way too easily.

Based on what you shared, it IS about the money. He values investing more than a kitchen.

Which is why you need to get a new job, a second job, etc to fund the renovation.

Who will cook, clean and do all the laundry while I’m at my second job? Your idea sounds nice, but I’m pretty stuck unless I want family life to collapse which I don’t.

Who will cook while the kitchen is being renovated?
Like it or not, it’s a big inconvenience and will definitely disrupt your family life.
It’s fine that you want this, but you need to focus more on how appreciative you are that your husband makes enough to afford this and less on how you *have* to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hire a designer and start the process, present what you want and what your husband wants and go from there. For our renovation, my husband was against a lot of improvements I wanted to do, he wanted to just replace the cabinets but I wanted to remove some walls, that didn’t stop me from starting the process. Throughout the process the designer liked all my ideas, so it wasn’t me telling DH what to do, it was another man (sign but true). Long story short, we renovated the place like I had in mind and my husband proudly tell people it was mostly my design. Your situation is a bit more complex but you are not going to get full agreement from the start, just start the process and see where it goes. Good luck!

I think this is a good start.

But I also wonder why some level of repair and maintenance has not been done? Things like cabinets not closing properly or grout being gone can be fixed. Or you can learn to do it yourself. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but my spouse is not handy and I finally realized that if I wanted to save some $ and time that I would simply have to do it myself. I keep it to simple stuff, but if/when I have an issue my spouse will work on it with me and if we don't succeed then there's no complaint when I call a repairman.

And 90's is old, but not that old. Our house was built in '79 and we bought it in 2015 with the original kitchen and bathrooms. We finally re-did the kitchen, but the bathrooms were all original until we replaced a toilet recently. And most of the houses on my block that have sold have the original kitchen and/or bathrooms. Lots of people can't afford to upgrade.

The other tactic would be to just be a grade A "B" until he relents. Don't cook. Don't clean. Be aloof. Tell him you're mad and hurt that your feelings don't seem to matter and you don't know how else to get through to him.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why you cannot do it without husband? It took me 4 years to completely gut and re-do all 4 bathrooms in our house. I just finished my master bathroom and I totally love it. Husband refused to get involved. I am looking at the kitchen now. I gave a an inexpensive face lift 4 years ago, I will start pricing a full remodel next year and planning to gut it out in 2-3 years. Just do it if this is important for you.

And did you pay for this all by yourself?

Yes, I did. I make three times more than my federal employee husband.

That's awesome. How did you learn to do the work?

[Anonymous]

Facelifts are generally absurd. You’ll be out almost as much money with nothing to show for it. That’s the dumbest of all options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tough call. I am a woman but would be like the husband in this situation though I sympathize with OP as well.

This isn't some small little thing she wants. It's tens of thousands of dollars for something that is mostly cosmetic. Plus it comes with quality of life inconvenience (and most people are not going to want to rent another house while it's being done!). And she's already like "and you should see our bathrooms..." so you can see where this is going. He's thinking if they open the floodgates with this, it's going to be a new project every year and they may as well just get a new house in a couple ofyears (smaller because the kids will be in college). That makes a ton of sense, I'd 100% be the one making those arguments.


Otoh wifes arguments are valid too. She works and keeps house. They nominally agreed to this in the past. There are cracks that need fixing. They have the money in theory.

What you definitely shouldn't do is the face-lift because you'll still be unhappy with that and your husband will be annoyed you spent the money and still don't like it.

I think you need a heart to heart about finances in general and that you feel undervalued because you make less. A portion of money should be set aside each year for household repairs. And if that money doesn't end up being used for an emergency then use what is left for this remodel.

This. OP, you, and most of the amen chorus in this post, are treating this as if he is being completely unreasonable, without a leg to stand on. That's just not the case. I get that it's frustrating when one partner is good with the status quo, and effectively has a veto, and I think he should reach come compromise with you. But it sounds like he did that with new counters and refacing, and you're still unhappy that he hasn't completely capitulated, and calling his position ridiculous. This isn't as one-sided as you are making it appear.

+1

OP, if he doesn’t want the remodel, you are asking for a $75k birthday present. Would you do the same for him?

OP here. In a heartbeat. I am always telling him he should enjoy things more. His answer is always “I don’t want anything.” And yes we’ll waste 20-25k to facelift the kitchen. Great compromise. I’ll still walk downstairs everyday and be annoyed. We sold a rental property last year (our first home) and made $350k profit. I proposed that after we pay the capital gains tax, we save half the remainder and put the other half into our current home. Denied.

And would Suze Orman say this reno is a waste of money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, why you cannot do it without husband? It took me 4 years to completely gut and re-do all 4 bathrooms in our house. I just finished my master bathroom and I totally love it. Husband refused to get involved. I am looking at the kitchen now. I gave a an inexpensive face lift 4 years ago, I will start pricing a full remodel next year and planning to gut it out in 2-3 years. Just do it if this is important for you.

And this is probably why OP Dh doesn't want to do it. It never ends at just one thing. It's addictive like plastic surgery. I can totally see OP doing the face lift and then asking for the remodel in a couple of years anyway. I don't mean to disparage you, PP, good for you for getting it done, but I'm a woman and this would drive me bonkers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tough call. I am a woman but would be like the husband in this situation though I sympathize with OP as well.

This isn't some small little thing she wants. It's tens of thousands of dollars for something that is mostly cosmetic. Plus it comes with quality of life inconvenience (and most people are not going to want to rent another house while it's being done!). And she's already like "and you should see our bathrooms..." so you can see where this is going. He's thinking if they open the floodgates with this, it's going to be a new project every year and they may as well just get a new house in a couple ofyears (smaller because the kids will be in college). That makes a ton of sense, I'd 100% be the one making those arguments.


Otoh wifes arguments are valid too. She works and keeps house. They nominally agreed to this in the past. There are cracks that need fixing. They have the money in theory.

What you definitely shouldn't do is the face-lift because you'll still be unhappy with that and your husband will be annoyed you spent the money and still don't like it.

I think you need a heart to heart about finances in general and that you feel undervalued because you make less. A portion of money should be set aside each year for household repairs. And if that money doesn't end up being used for an emergency then use what is left for this remodel.

This. OP, you, and most of the amen chorus in this post, are treating this as if he is being completely unreasonable, without a leg to stand on. That's just not the case. I get that it's frustrating when one partner is good with the status quo, and effectively has a veto, and I think he should reach come compromise with you. But it sounds like he did that with new counters and refacing, and you're still unhappy that he hasn't completely capitulated, and calling his position ridiculous. This isn't as one-sided as you are making it appear.

+1

OP, if he doesn’t want the remodel, you are asking for a $75k birthday present. Would you do the same for him?

OP here. In a heartbeat. I am always telling him he should enjoy things more. His answer is always “I don’t want anything.” And yes we’ll waste 20-25k to facelift the kitchen. Great compromise. I’ll still walk downstairs everyday and be annoyed. We sold a rental property last year (our first home) and made $350k profit. I proposed that after we pay the capital gains tax, we save half the remainder and put the other half into our current home. Denied.

And would Suze Orman say this reno is a waste of money?

People first, then money, then things!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tough call. I am a woman but would be like the husband in this situation though I sympathize with OP as well.

This isn't some small little thing she wants. It's tens of thousands of dollars for something that is mostly cosmetic. Plus it comes with quality of life inconvenience (and most people are not going to want to rent another house while it's being done!). And she's already like "and you should see our bathrooms..." so you can see where this is going. He's thinking if they open the floodgates with this, it's going to be a new project every year and they may as well just get a new house in a couple ofyears (smaller because the kids will be in college). That makes a ton of sense, I'd 100% be the one making those arguments.


Otoh wifes arguments are valid too. She works and keeps house. They nominally agreed to this in the past. There are cracks that need fixing. They have the money in theory.

What you definitely shouldn't do is the face-lift because you'll still be unhappy with that and your husband will be annoyed you spent the money and still don't like it.

I think you need a heart to heart about finances in general and that you feel undervalued because you make less. A portion of money should be set aside each year for household repairs. And if that money doesn't end up being used for an emergency then use what is left for this remodel.

This. OP, you, and most of the amen chorus in this post, are treating this as if he is being completely unreasonable, without a leg to stand on. That's just not the case. I get that it's frustrating when one partner is good with the status quo, and effectively has a veto, and I think he should reach come compromise with you. But it sounds like he did that with new counters and refacing, and you're still unhappy that he hasn't completely capitulated, and calling his position ridiculous. This isn't as one-sided as you are making it appear.

+1

OP, if he doesn’t want the remodel, you are asking for a $75k birthday present. Would you do the same for him?

OP here. In a heartbeat. I am always telling him he should enjoy things more. His answer is always “I don’t want anything.” And yes we’ll waste 20-25k to facelift the kitchen. Great compromise. I’ll still walk downstairs everyday and be annoyed. We sold a rental property last year (our first home) and made $350k profit. I proposed that after we pay the capital gains tax, we save half the remainder and put the other half into our current home. Denied.

Wait…so you have $350 in profit. 2% mortgage? Is the location and mortgage that good that you wouldn’t move if something nearby and affordable came up? Can you 1031 exchange the profits from both sales into a new property—is that even possible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why you cannot do it without husband? It took me 4 years to completely gut and re-do all 4 bathrooms in our house. I just finished my master bathroom and I totally love it. Husband refused to get involved. I am looking at the kitchen now. I gave a an inexpensive face lift 4 years ago, I will start pricing a full remodel next year and planning to gut it out in 2-3 years. Just do it if this is important for you.

And this is probably why OP Dh doesn't want to do it. It never ends at just one thing. It's addictive like plastic surgery. I can totally see OP doing the face lift and then asking for the remodel in a couple of years anyway. I don't mean to disparage you, PP, good for you for getting it done, but I'm a woman and this would drive me bonkers.

Yeah she needs to start with the bathrooms one by one

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. When really pressed he admits we can “afford it” but states that it’s not something he values. When I point out that I value it and my feelings should matter too, he doesn’t really have anything to say to that. And that’s what hurts I think. It’s like how people say the no vote always wins. And he is almost always the no vote. It’s maddening.

And the you say “I need a response to that. If you can’t give me one, then we need marriage counseling. Either we talk clearly about why your opinion carries more weight than mine, or I will start calling therapists tomorrow.”

And then you stick to it. You don’t move on, let it drop, blow over, etc. The ball is in your court and it’s your responsibility to make that appointment. Do it.

This. It is your responsibility to keep this front and center until he acknowledges it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Facelifts are generally absurd. You’ll be out almost as much money with nothing to show for it. That’s the dumbest of all options.

+1
We got quotes for both and it wasn’t that much worse to just bite the bullet and do the job properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why you cannot do it without husband? It took me 4 years to completely gut and re-do all 4 bathrooms in our house. I just finished my master bathroom and I totally love it. Husband refused to get involved. I am looking at the kitchen now. I gave a an inexpensive face lift 4 years ago, I will start pricing a full remodel next year and planning to gut it out in 2-3 years. Just do it if this is important for you.

And this is probably why OP Dh doesn't want to do it. It never ends at just one thing. It's addictive like plastic surgery. I can totally see OP doing the face lift and then asking for the remodel in a couple of years anyway. I don't mean to disparage you, PP, good for you for getting it done, but I'm a woman and this would drive me bonkers.

That’s why the face lift is an idiotic idea. Just do it fully.