How do you “emotionally support” a woman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one huge mistake people make (and this isn't just about husbands) is an intolerance of the negative emotions of others. Being around someone else's negative emotions can be uncomfortable, especially if we care about them. So often people seek to do something to get those pesky emotions away. This maybe okay when you're talking about a parent distracting a toddler who is in distress because they have to leave the playground, but it's often a problem when someone dismisses negative emotions as invalid, useless, dramatic, etc. Emotions, positive and negative, have value and purpose. Honoring and being curious about someone else's emotions is part of being emotionally supportive.

I think you are right, but only to a point. I think it is equally true that some people are routinely negative or dramatic. It is frankly selfish to expect others to constantly engage with your negative emotions, and it is egocentric to believe that all of your emotions are worthy of "honoring" by others. What we don't know about OP, or anyone else posting on here, is whether the husband might be legitimately exhausted, walking on egg shells, etc.

I am right because I said it's *often* a problem to dismiss negative emotions. It is true that sometimes negative emotions are invalid and useless (I didn't use dramatic because I think it's an extremely rude term that is often used to dismiss valid emotion).

We do not know if OP's wife has borderline personality disorder or something, but we do know that it is extremely frequent for men to fail to emotionally support their wives. And we know that OP's wife is taking the drastic step of leaving the marriage (ostensibly) because of a lack of emotional support. If I had to bet on which spouse was right about OP's level of emotional support, I wouldn't choose OP.

You also said, "Emotions, positive and negative, have value and purpose", which is nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one huge mistake people make (and this isn't just about husbands) is an intolerance of the negative emotions of others. Being around someone else's negative emotions can be uncomfortable, especially if we care about them. So often people seek to do something to get those pesky emotions away. This maybe okay when you're talking about a parent distracting a toddler who is in distress because they have to leave the playground, but it's often a problem when someone dismisses negative emotions as invalid, useless, dramatic, etc. Emotions, positive and negative, have value and purpose. Honoring and being curious about someone else's emotions is part of being emotionally supportive.

I think you are right, but only to a point. I think it is equally true that some people are routinely negative or dramatic. It is frankly selfish to expect others to constantly engage with your negative emotions, and it is egocentric to believe that all of your emotions are worthy of "honoring" by others. What we don't know about OP, or anyone else posting on here, is whether the husband might be legitimately exhausted, walking on egg shells, etc.

I am right because I said it's *often* a problem to dismiss negative emotions. It is true that sometimes negative emotions are invalid and useless (I didn't use dramatic because I think it's an extremely rude term that is often used to dismiss valid emotion).

We do not know if OP's wife has borderline personality disorder or something, but we do know that it is extremely frequent for men to fail to emotionally support their wives. And we know that OP's wife is taking the drastic step of leaving the marriage (ostensibly) because of a lack of emotional support. If I had to bet on which spouse was right about OP's level of emotional support, I wouldn't choose OP.

You also said, "Emotions, positive and negative, have value and purpose", which is nonsense.

That statement may not be true for any emotion everyone has ever felt or will feel, but it hardly nonsense. I am guessing that you would also bristle if I were to say "Emotions, positive and negative, almost always have value and purpose." I can tell from your comment that you have a very low tolerance for others' emotions, either because you find them an inconvenience or because you don't have a good grip on your own emotions. Probably both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one huge mistake people make (and this isn't just about husbands) is an intolerance of the negative emotions of others. Being around someone else's negative emotions can be uncomfortable, especially if we care about them. So often people seek to do something to get those pesky emotions away. This maybe okay when you're talking about a parent distracting a toddler who is in distress because they have to leave the playground, but it's often a problem when someone dismisses negative emotions as invalid, useless, dramatic, etc. Emotions, positive and negative, have value and purpose. Honoring and being curious about someone else's emotions is part of being emotionally supportive.

Anecdotes aren't data and all of that, but my wife is incredibly intolerant of my negative emotions. If I display any, she will pretty quickly turn it into something about her. And I think lots of guys have this experience. I could be wrong, but I don't think the world at-large is as accepting of negative emotions from men as they are from women. (I know men get angry plenty and are sometimes rewarded for it; but I think that's more because people are afraid of them than because they are accepting and supportive of those kinds of outbursts.)

PP here and I agree with you (except your theory about why anger in men is acceptable). Some women, typically women who are very gender-conforming, often cannot stand displays of vulnerability in men. It's messed up and I'm sorry your wife isn't more emotionally supportive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one huge mistake people make (and this isn't just about husbands) is an intolerance of the negative emotions of others. Being around someone else's negative emotions can be uncomfortable, especially if we care about them. So often people seek to do something to get those pesky emotions away. This maybe okay when you're talking about a parent distracting a toddler who is in distress because they have to leave the playground, but it's often a problem when someone dismisses negative emotions as invalid, useless, dramatic, etc. Emotions, positive and negative, have value and purpose. Honoring and being curious about someone else's emotions is part of being emotionally supportive.

I think you are right, but only to a point. I think it is equally true that some people are routinely negative or dramatic. It is frankly selfish to expect others to constantly engage with your negative emotions, and it is egocentric to believe that all of your emotions are worthy of "honoring" by others. What we don't know about OP, or anyone else posting on here, is whether the husband might be legitimately exhausted, walking on egg shells, etc.

I am right because I said it's *often* a problem to dismiss negative emotions. It is true that sometimes negative emotions are invalid and useless (I didn't use dramatic because I think it's an extremely rude term that is often used to dismiss valid emotion).

We do not know if OP's wife has borderline personality disorder or something, but we do know that it is extremely frequent for men to fail to emotionally support their wives. And we know that OP's wife is taking the drastic step of leaving the marriage (ostensibly) because of a lack of emotional support. If I had to bet on which spouse was right about OP's level of emotional support, I wouldn't choose OP.

You also said, "Emotions, positive and negative, have value and purpose", which is nonsense.

That statement may not be true for any emotion everyone has ever felt or will feel, but it hardly nonsense. I am guessing that you would also bristle if I were to say "Emotions, positive and negative, almost always have value and purpose." I can tell from your comment that you have a very low tolerance for others' emotions, either because you find them an inconvenience or because you don't have a good grip on your own emotions. Probably both.

I think your revised sentence is nonsense too because it is so vague as to be meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She is unhappy and thinks you are the source. When you are divorced, she will still be unhappy. You will be balls deep in someone new and unencumbered. You will be happy. She still won’t be. Give it about three years and mark my words.

+1M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well there are a few possibilities:

1. She is too immature to realize and accept that a DH is not necessarily a trained therapist who knows the perfect thing to say at all times

2. She wants to be with someone else and using you as a scapegoat

3. You are actually an a-hole and don’t realize it. Also, wtf is “helping” around the house

In my experience, it's almost always #3.

Men are usually a-holes. Or perhaps the term is generally more self centered.

Just observe platonic relationships between women. It's not that hard. When a woman makes a friend, she mirrors a lot of the nice things her friend does for her. If I am sick and my friend makes me a hot pot of soup, I make her hot pot of soup when she is sick. If she gets me something nice for Christmas, I get her gifts for occasions. The list goes on.


With men, they dont mirror. You have to spell everything out. They will claim they are nice and patient, but they have to be instructed on everything but the most basic acts of kindness. It gets old.

Not all men! My ex would leave me to fend for myself and kids while sick. New boyfriend will make me chicken soup, run to the store for cough drops, cuddle me, make sure I’m comfortable etc. I knew I was unhappy in my last marriage and was ok being single for the rest of my life, but wow. My eyes are opened to what an emotionally supportive partner is now. It’s life changing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does a man need to do to not be served divorced papers? If he is a good father, he helps around the house, he is not an alcoholic and isn’t physically and mentally abusive, what else does he need to do to keep his wife happy?

Specifically, what exactly do women mean when they complain that their husbands are not “emotionally supportive”?

How do you show “emotional support”?
I’m getting divorced because my soon to be ex wife said that we grew apart because I was not emotionally supportive. I never dismissed her when she came to me with things that were bothering her at work or with her girlfriend, every time she got into a fight with her mom I was there to support her, when she came home stressed from work and was crying I supported her and I even helped her change career and get a better job.

After reading your initial post and all the replies, OP, my only takeaway is that you sound like my DH, who was diagnosed with autism in his late 30s. Like you, he is baffled by my reaction to his lack of emotional intelligence, and is constantly seeking out a magic checklist of sorts. Sometimes a therapist or I will try to be more prescriptive with him, but then I see him just going through the rote motions 1-2x and then slacking off and getting frustrated because I wasn’t somehow permanently satisfied by 2 days of attempted emotional engagement.

If you really think your relationship can be boiled down to stuff like not being an alcoholic and helping out, and are concerned that you might be served papers, and can’t see all the stuff in between those two steps, you might be facing a situation caused by neurodiversity. You should seek out the advice of a therapist and get an adult neurological work up to help you understand how your brain works vs. your wife’s.

PP:
I've been reading this thread because I'm thinking of divorcing my ASD husband. We've been married for a long time, and our kids are grown, and I've been putting up with his complete lack of understanding of emotional support for decades. Like you, we've tried therapy over and over, and the result is exactly the same: he tries for a few weeks, listens to the counselor, says the right things, but it all dribbles off and disappears after counseling ends.
He thinks "emotional support" is something you give like a birthday present, and it ends there.
When I read OP's post, I thought as you did, that OP might be on the autism spectrum. I even wondered if my DH had written that post (he may have. he reads these boards). My DH "helps out," is not abusive or an alcoholic and seems to think that makes him a good enough "supportive" spouse.

There is no way to explain to him that "emotional support" is lifelong and constant. It never ends. It's give and take, supporting your partner no matter what, never closing down emotionally, maintaining honest communication, even when what you have to say isn't flattering to yourself or even to your spouse, but it's honest and needs to be said in a spirit of loving support. My DH will rub my back or pat me on the shoulder because he thinks that's "emotional support," but in reality, he lives in his closed little world where he doesn't need or want ongoing emotional closeness of the kind that a neurotypical person wants and needs to maintain a healthy relationship with a spouse.

I agree OP should read some books about NT/ASD relationships. Google them. There are many, and articles too. It may be too late for OP to save his marriage, but it might give him some insight into why his marriage failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does a man need to do to not be served divorced papers? If he is a good father, he helps around the house, he is not an alcoholic and isn’t physically and mentally abusive, what else does he need to do to keep his wife happy?

Specifically, what exactly do women mean when they complain that their husbands are not “emotionally supportive”?

How do you show “emotional support”?
I’m getting divorced because my soon to be ex wife said that we grew apart because I was not emotionally supportive. I never dismissed her when she came to me with things that were bothering her at work or with her girlfriend, every time she got into a fight with her mom I was there to support her, when she came home stressed from work and was crying I supported her and I even helped her change career and get a better job.

After reading your initial post and all the replies, OP, my only takeaway is that you sound like my DH, who was diagnosed with autism in his late 30s. Like you, he is baffled by my reaction to his lack of emotional intelligence, and is constantly seeking out a magic checklist of sorts. Sometimes a therapist or I will try to be more prescriptive with him, but then I see him just going through the rote motions 1-2x and then slacking off and getting frustrated because I wasn’t somehow permanently satisfied by 2 days of attempted emotional engagement.

If you really think your relationship can be boiled down to stuff like not being an alcoholic and helping out, and are concerned that you might be served papers, and can’t see all the stuff in between those two steps, you might be facing a situation caused by neurodiversity. You should seek out the advice of a therapist and get an adult neurological work up to help you understand how your brain works vs. your wife’s.

Why did you marry this guy? Did you not realize this was a problem before he got diagnosed? I have some sympathy for the women who marry some guy with ADHD, which starts to show as life gets more hectic. But it's not like someone suddenly comes to lack emotional intelligence.

I always suspect that there are women out there who wanted the wedding and the kids but then get sick of the marriage once they've gotten what they wanted. You might be one of those.

I'm not the PP you're responding to, but even I know that people on the spectrum can put a lot of effort into hiding it in the beginning of a relationship.

He didn't have a diagnosis until late 30s. Why characterize this as intentionally putting "a lot of effort into hiding it in the beginning" as opposed to just doing his best, as most people do at the beginning of a relationship? Everyone puts their best foot forward at the beginning of the relationship. If he didn't have a diagnosis, what would he be hiding?

Not the poster you are responding to, but the diagnosis is just a clinical conclusion after an assessment. He didn't suddenly become autistic at the time of diagnosis.

It's true that some people put their best foot forward and try hard during the early days of a relationship, only to "drop the mask" later on. Hard to believe that that's what was going on here though, for long enough to get OP to marry him.

PP, please don't post when you have no experience with ASD marriage. What you wrote is 100% wrong.

I am married to a person on the spectrum. It is very, very difficult, even though my spouse is loving and tries to be supportive. Autistic people tend to focus on one thing, and in the beginning of a relationship, that one thing is their partner. My DH was extremely loving and attentive to me until we had children, and then he became overwhelmed and all his autistic behaviors came to the fore. It was very confusing to me, but finally made sense when he was diagnosed recently. People on the spectrum do "mask" their autism in public. Which is also very confusing to their spouse because they drop the "mask" at home and shut down emotionally.

[Anonymous]

NP - as a husband I simply listen and as calmly as I can try help her to break down the issue into small pieces. My wife is smarter than all get out but sometimes lets emotion take over. She ends up solving the problem, I’m just a helper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, my husbnad *is* emotionally supportive. Here are a few examples of that:

1. He doesn't tell me to stop feeling the way I'm feeling when I'm angry, sad, etc.

2. If I am having a hard time, like if I'm really sick or had a failure, he genuinely feels bad for me.

3.When I share a problem with him (one that he can tell is impacting me emotionally), he will usually ask if I want a solution before offering one. If he starts going into "problem-solving mode" when that's not what I want, I tell him "I don't need advice right now, I just need to get this off my chest," he just says "okay" and gets into listening mode.

4. He asks me how I'm doing and genuinely wants to know the answer.

5. If he knows I'm having a hard time he will do little things for me, like getting me some cookies from the grocery store.

Basically I know he genuinely cares about my wellbeing and doesn't think I'm a hysterical woman for having my share of natural negative emotions. We have done marriage counseling so he wasn't born handling others' negative emotions well, but he has always valued emotional closeness with people.

Focus on her #3 there. You sound like you go into problem solving (helped her change careers) immediately which is not always what a woman may be seeking when something freshly happened. You need to ask her what is emotional support to her. Tell her that it wasn’t necessarily communicated to you clearly at first but that you are trying to make it right and ask for a second chance. Tell her that when she tells you things that have happened that your immmediate reaction is to focus on problem solving not necessarily managing emotions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does a man need to do to not be served divorced papers? If he is a good father, he helps around the house, he is not an alcoholic and isn’t physically and mentally abusive, what else does he need to do to keep his wife happy?

Specifically, what exactly do women mean when they complain that their husbands are not “emotionally supportive”?

How do you show “emotional support”?
I’m getting divorced because my soon to be ex wife said that we grew apart because I was not emotionally supportive. I never dismissed her when she came to me with things that were bothering her at work or with her girlfriend, every time she got into a fight with her mom I was there to support her, when she came home stressed from work and was crying I supported her and I even helped her change career and get a better job.

After reading your initial post and all the replies, OP, my only takeaway is that you sound like my DH, who was diagnosed with autism in his late 30s. Like you, he is baffled by my reaction to his lack of emotional intelligence, and is constantly seeking out a magic checklist of sorts. Sometimes a therapist or I will try to be more prescriptive with him, but then I see him just going through the rote motions 1-2x and then slacking off and getting frustrated because I wasn’t somehow permanently satisfied by 2 days of attempted emotional engagement.

If you really think your relationship can be boiled down to stuff like not being an alcoholic and helping out, and are concerned that you might be served papers, and can’t see all the stuff in between those two steps, you might be facing a situation caused by neurodiversity. You should seek out the advice of a therapist and get an adult neurological work up to help you understand how your brain works vs. your wife’s.

PP:
I've been reading this thread because I'm thinking of divorcing my ASD husband. We've been married for a long time, and our kids are grown, and I've been putting up with his complete lack of understanding of emotional support for decades. Like you, we've tried therapy over and over, and the result is exactly the same: he tries for a few weeks, listens to the counselor, says the right things, but it all dribbles off and disappears after counseling ends.
He thinks "emotional support" is something you give like a birthday present, and it ends there.
When I read OP's post, I thought as you did, that OP might be on the autism spectrum. I even wondered if my DH had written that post (he may have. he reads these boards). My DH "helps out," is not abusive or an alcoholic and seems to think that makes him a good enough "supportive" spouse.

There is no way to explain to him that "emotional support" is lifelong and constant. It never ends. It's give and take, supporting your partner no matter what, never closing down emotionally, maintaining honest communication, even when what you have to say isn't flattering to yourself or even to your spouse, but it's honest and needs to be said in a spirit of loving support. My DH will rub my back or pat me on the shoulder because he thinks that's "emotional support," but in reality, he lives in his closed little world where he doesn't need or want ongoing emotional closeness of the kind that a neurotypical person wants and needs to maintain a healthy relationship with a spouse.

I agree OP should read some books about NT/ASD relationships. Google them. There are many, and articles too. It may be too late for OP to save his marriage, but it might give him some insight into why his marriage failed.

Dang bro. That’s probably your wife.

You lack consistency and make perfunctory efforts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one huge mistake people make (and this isn't just about husbands) is an intolerance of the negative emotions of others. Being around someone else's negative emotions can be uncomfortable, especially if we care about them. So often people seek to do something to get those pesky emotions away. This maybe okay when you're talking about a parent distracting a toddler who is in distress because they have to leave the playground, but it's often a problem when someone dismisses negative emotions as invalid, useless, dramatic, etc. Emotions, positive and negative, have value and purpose. Honoring and being curious about someone else's emotions is part of being emotionally supportive.

Anecdotes aren't data and all of that, but my wife is incredibly intolerant of my negative emotions. If I display any, she will pretty quickly turn it into something about her. And I think lots of guys have this experience. I could be wrong, but I don't think the world at-large is as accepting of negative emotions from men as they are from women. (I know men get angry plenty and are sometimes rewarded for it; but I think that's more because people are afraid of them than because they are accepting and supportive of those kinds of outbursts.)

PP here and I agree with you (except your theory about why anger in men is acceptable). Some women, typically women who are very gender-conforming, often cannot stand displays of vulnerability in men. It's messed up and I'm sorry your wife isn't more emotionally supportive.

I totally agree with this. I cannot believe I am about cite Brene Brown but her comments on this are pretty spot on.