Are dead bedrooms inevitable?

[Anonymous]

I agree the "sex therapist" is fake. Also offers really bad advice.

The "choreplay gets women hot" theory has been thoroughly debunked globally. At best, choreplay (might) help ensure the woman isn't resentfully avoiding sex. But that is merely avoiding the brakes, not hitting the gas pedal. While it's better when she doesn't have an obvious reason to say NO, she still needs some compelling reason to say YES.

NP, from this perspective actually, then the therapist's observation dovetails precisely with what earlier PPs had stated about losing desire but still having regular sex with their DHs. There may be little you can do to actually rev up desire in a long-term marriage, but I would imagine that an equal relationship and no disproportionate burden would indeed work on avoiding the "brakes" and get to a situation where the lower-drive spouse was actually happy, not just "willing" to take one for the team. Not ideal, but something.

Also, not sure the "therapist" mentioned this but I think as some of the PPs discussed above, there is an aspect of the choreplay issue that synchs with the confidence/dominance theme too: and that is, as PPs complain, when DH plays dumb/acts like a baby/never takes initiative in the household, it is actually a huge turn off. So it is not whether any particular chore is complete, e.g. the floor mopped, but the broader point that a DH who seems habitually lazy/shirking/incompetent* is really unattractive from just a primal caveman/cavewoman perspective too!

*I have no opinion about whether this happens frequently or rarely, nor any desire to enter the weird battle of the sexes on this thread. Just that *theoretically* I can see some overlap between the dominance and choreplay theories....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I agree the "sex therapist" is fake. Also offers really bad advice.

The "choreplay gets women hot" theory has been thoroughly debunked globally. At best, choreplay (might) help ensure the woman isn't resentfully avoiding sex. But that is merely avoiding the brakes, not hitting the gas pedal. While it's better when she doesn't have an obvious reason to say NO, she still needs some compelling reason to say YES.

NP, from this perspective actually, then the therapist's observation dovetails precisely with what earlier PPs had stated about losing desire but still having regular sex with their DHs. There may be little you can do to actually rev up desire in a long-term marriage, but I would imagine that an equal relationship and no disproportionate burden would indeed work on avoiding the "brakes" and get to a situation where the lower-drive spouse was actually happy, not just "willing" to take one for the team. Not ideal, but something.

Also, not sure the "therapist" mentioned this but I think as some of the PPs discussed above, there is an aspect of the choreplay issue that synchs with the confidence/dominance theme too: and that is, as PPs complain, when DH plays dumb/acts like a baby/never takes initiative in the household, it is actually a huge turn off. So it is not whether any particular chore is complete, e.g. the floor mopped, but the broader point that a DH who seems habitually lazy/shirking/incompetent* is really unattractive from just a primal caveman/cavewoman perspective too!

*I have no opinion about whether this happens frequently or rarely, nor any desire to enter the weird battle of the sexes on this thread. Just that *theoretically* I can see some overlap between the dominance and choreplay theories....

Nope. Choreplay and an "equal relationship" not only does not get women hot, it actively turns women off.

http://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/savvy/journals/ASR/Feb13ASRFeature.pdf

"Our findings suggest the importance of gender display for sexual frequency in heterosexual marriage: couples where men participate more in core tasks—work typically done by women—report lower sexual frequency."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree the "sex therapist" is fake. Also offers really bad advice.

The "choreplay gets women hot" theory has been thoroughly debunked globally. At best, choreplay (might) help ensure the woman isn't resentfully avoiding sex. But that is merely avoiding the brakes, not hitting the gas pedal. While it's better when she doesn't have an obvious reason to say NO, she still needs some compelling reason to say YES.

NP, from this perspective actually, then the therapist's observation dovetails precisely with what earlier PPs had stated about losing desire but still having regular sex with their DHs. There may be little you can do to actually rev up desire in a long-term marriage, but I would imagine that an equal relationship and no disproportionate burden would indeed work on avoiding the "brakes" and get to a situation where the lower-drive spouse was actually happy, not just "willing" to take one for the team. Not ideal, but something.

Also, not sure the "therapist" mentioned this but I think as some of the PPs discussed above, there is an aspect of the choreplay issue that synchs with the confidence/dominance theme too: and that is, as PPs complain, when DH plays dumb/acts like a baby/never takes initiative in the household, it is actually a huge turn off. So it is not whether any particular chore is complete, e.g. the floor mopped, but the broader point that a DH who seems habitually lazy/shirking/incompetent* is really unattractive from just a primal caveman/cavewoman perspective too!

*I have no opinion about whether this happens frequently or rarely, nor any desire to enter the weird battle of the sexes on this thread. Just that *theoretically* I can see some overlap between the dominance and choreplay theories....

Nope. Choreplay and an "equal relationship" not only does not get women hot, it actively turns women off.

http://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/savvy/journals/ASR/Feb13ASRFeature.pdf

"Our findings suggest the importance of gender display for sexual frequency in heterosexual marriage: couples where men participate more in core tasks—work typically done by women—report lower sexual frequency."

"In one survey found that nice guys who were modest, agreeable, and unselfish were disadvantaged in sexual relationships. Men who were manipulative, arrogant, calculating, and sly were more sexually active and had a greater variety of sexual experiences and a greater number of sex partners. [Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy]"

Ghee, you would have thought a "Sex Therapist" would know this. The chore play theory is nonsense, plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, what I wrote above is why chores are so important in a relationship. For 99% of women, as respect for the man dies, so does sexual desire. Pulling your weight around the house, showing initiative, and parenting (instead of acting like a mother’s helper) are all ways of earning back a wife’s respect.

When women come to me complaining their husbands have lost desire, I advise losing weight, dressing better, spicing up the bedroom, getting some fun hobbies to share with DH. And they listen. When men come to me complaining their wife gives them the same look she gives moldy bread, I ask them how the balance of work is around the house. Those who make excuses get told I am not taking on new clients. Those who respond honestly get to brainstorm a list of ways in which they can help out more. After doing that, we discuss how to approach a woman in a masculine, sexy way. The day your wife wakes up to a clean kitchen with you vacuuming and the kids taken care of, she will realize she has free time and those panties will be wet.

—Sex therapist

BS
Wife is SAHM, I make decent money and I am in great shape 6'1" with a 6 pack and a full head of hair. We were sexless for a couple years, I tried chore play She would come down in the morning house vacuumed, floors mopped, spent all my free time with the kids so she would have a break. None of that worked. It wasn't until I told her I was leaving did she get her libido back. I went back to being more dominate and she told me this is what she always wanted

In that line of thought, "The Science of Sex" based of the largest longest running study also found "happiness was the most attractive female emotion expression, and one of the least attractive in males." They are turned off by stable nice guy. Period.

More interesting they found, "they find sexist men more appealing than non-sexist men." Nice guys lose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Married over 30 years and very active, very attracted and both reach orgasm every time. Last night we got it on while our kids were downstairs watching a movie. We easily find time and it's hotter than ever. I would say the worst time sexually in our marriage was when the kids were toddlers, but we still managed 1-2 times/week. They are now MS age.

Its great to see input like this. There are so many people leading lives of quiet despair, have gone places in their lives and minds they never would have imagined, who forget all too quickly why they married their partner and what that institution means.

Marriage is the 'death of self', and having kids is the most final and irrevocable death of self. But its also the birth of a new entity, one where your needs come second but still exist, and all the intricacies of meeting everyone's needs of life begin to intertwine. The marriage of two selfish people is a recipe for failure. Marrying someone who is not hard-work-willing is a recipe for failure. You can blame it on "evolution" if you want.

Or you can start to find stories about people married 30-40-50 years and still have that spark and activity from when they were young. And then figure out why, and then develop those traits yourselves.

The answer to the question in the title here is NO.

[Anonymous]

If you are not great friends with your spouse it's hard to imagine not having a dead bedroom. My DH and I have been married over 30 years and we really like being together even though we have many separate interests and we appreciate each others interests. If we weren't great friends I'm sure my libido would be running on cool. Before DH I never had sex for sex's sake it was because I really liked the guy. There is no doubt sex with the same person for 30 years can get to be predictable but we mix things up enough to make it fun. Last night he was lying in bed watching Colbert's monologue and I came in climbed up and straddled him and said "how about our own late show?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ha! So choreplay is what gets panties wet? The previous women posters, sexually attracted to males all around (except for dear hubby), you think strange men have been getting them hot by washing dishes and vacuuming? Oh, wait. So those ladies just dying for an open marriage, they can get horny for random d$ck (choreplay not required) but the HUSBAND turns her right off... unless he does enough dishes!! And if I’m not mistaken, several women on this thread bluntly admitted their husbands pull their weight and still they weren’t interested.

Sorry I’m not buying your tale, sex therapist. Here’s an idea: men, if wife’s not interested, inform her not to wait up on Friday nights: from now on you will be out on sex dates. Boom, problem solved.

Studies show aggression and dominance get the greatest arousal response. Not physical but going after what you want decisively. The idea dish will do it stupid that pity sex, not arousal. The easiest and surest way to get/keep them on board is other women hover, may be the threat of another woman (woman actually hate each other and want to out do each other) or the fact woman always want what they think other women want.

I'm not sex therapist, but I agree (woman!)

yep. Read any of the thousands of best selling romance novels, almost everyone has a dominant alpha male and woman needing him to "teach her"--its the most common fantasy. I love romance novels and I am woman and a feminist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are not great friends with your spouse it's hard to imagine not having a dead bedroom. My DH and I have been married over 30 years and we really like being together even though we have many separate interests and we appreciate each others interests. If we weren't great friends I'm sure my libido would be running on cool. Before DH I never had sex for sex's sake it was because I really liked the guy. There is no doubt sex with the same person for 30 years can get to be predictable but we mix things up enough to make it fun. Last night he was lying in bed watching Colbert's monologue and I came in climbed up and straddled him and said "how about our own late show?"

+1 my spouse is a decent guy but we are no longer the friends we were early in our marriage. We have periodic sex that mostly deals with pent up demand - horniness! But we rarely have sex for the sheer joy of being together.

[Anonymous]

I believe it. Novelty is a big aphrodisiac for me. That's probably why we have more sex on vacation than we do at home.

For me, I've gotten to the point where I really only want it once a week, if that. And that's not a knock on my DH, who is good in bed. That's just how often desire flails for me.

/ mid thirty something woman here, married for close to 15 years, monogamous for 20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]If you are not great friends with your spouse it's hard to imagine not having a dead bedroom. [/b]My DH and I have been married over 30 years and we really like being together even though we have many separate interests and we appreciate each others interests. If we weren't great friends I'm sure my libido would be running on cool. Before DH I never had sex for sex's sake it was because I really liked the guy. There is no doubt sex with the same person for 30 years can get to be predictable but we mix things up enough to make it fun. Last night he was lying in bed watching Colbert's monologue and I came in climbed up and straddled him and said "how about our own late show?"

Huh? I think the friendship element is part of what causes a lack of desire, at least for me. I find tension, mystery, novelty, the forbidden, etc. desirable. None of that is present in my long monogamous relationship with my husband who is my best friend and a great father to my three children.

I think "aww" aren't I lucky when I see him doing chores around the house or playing with the kids. But it doesn't make me want to f*ck him. That theory has never made sense to me. Seeing someone do the laundry is not sexy, though it's nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think for some couples the desire remains fairly constant, with a dry spell here and there. They've won the marriage lottery, though, because I think for the vast majority, sex becomes just another part of the "hard work" that is marriage. You have sex because sex feels good, and you want to have sex, and this is the person you agreed to have sex with until one of you dies. Or you have sex because you love your partner, not because you desire them, but you want to keep them happy, or you're afraid they'll leave or find it elsewhere.

That's why it dies. Because it becomes work, and eventually no amount of date nights and "choosing each other" can bring it back to life. So you end up with either a fully dead bedroom, or an undead one where you have a kind of zombie sex that's just going through the motions.

This. This is real.

We're not having "zombie sex" but it's totally routine, if satisfying.

I can't see how that isn't inevitable to some degree though. I've been sleeping with this man for TWENTY years. There is no more novelty, mystery, tension, etc. in our relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]If you are not great friends with your spouse it's hard to imagine not having a dead bedroom. [/b]My DH and I have been married over 30 years and we really like being together even though we have many separate interests and we appreciate each others interests. If we weren't great friends I'm sure my libido would be running on cool. Before DH I never had sex for sex's sake it was because I really liked the guy. There is no doubt sex with the same person for 30 years can get to be predictable but we mix things up enough to make it fun. Last night he was lying in bed watching Colbert's monologue and I came in climbed up and straddled him and said "how about our own late show?"

Huh? I think the friendship element is part of what causes a lack of desire, at least for me. I find tension, mystery, novelty, the forbidden, etc. desirable. None of that is present in my long monogamous relationship with my husband who is my best friend and a great father to my three children.

I think "aww" aren't I lucky when I see him doing chores around the house or playing with the kids. But it doesn't make me want to f*ck him. That theory has never made sense to me. Seeing someone do the laundry is not sexy, though it's nice.

If you need tension, mystery, novelty, the forbidden to get excited what do you do for sexual relief? Troll bars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]If you are not great friends with your spouse it's hard to imagine not having a dead bedroom. [/b]My DH and I have been married over 30 years and we really like being together even though we have many separate interests and we appreciate each others interests. If we weren't great friends I'm sure my libido would be running on cool. Before DH I never had sex for sex's sake it was because I really liked the guy. There is no doubt sex with the same person for 30 years can get to be predictable but we mix things up enough to make it fun. Last night he was lying in bed watching Colbert's monologue and I came in climbed up and straddled him and said "how about our own late show?"

Huh? I think the friendship element is part of what causes a lack of desire, at least for me. I find tension, mystery, novelty, the forbidden, etc. desirable. None of that is present in my long monogamous relationship with my husband who is my best friend and a great father to my three children.

I think "aww" aren't I lucky when I see him doing chores around the house or playing with the kids. But it doesn't make me want to f*ck him. That theory has never made sense to me. Seeing someone do the laundry is not sexy, though it's nice.

If you need tension, mystery, novelty, the forbidden to get excited what do you do for sexual relief? Troll bars?

I'm guessing she does what the guys do -- hardcore pornography and masturbation.

[Anonymous]

Men get bored of sex too, but we maintain a high desire for sex with just about anyone and our wives are our approved outlet.

I am sympathetic to women who lose desire. I am also sympathetic to men who cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree the "sex therapist" is fake. Also offers really bad advice.

The "choreplay gets women hot" theory has been thoroughly debunked globally. At best, choreplay (might) help ensure the woman isn't resentfully avoiding sex. But that is merely avoiding the brakes, not hitting the gas pedal. While it's better when she doesn't have an obvious reason to say NO, she still needs some compelling reason to say YES.

NP, from this perspective actually, then the therapist's observation dovetails precisely with what earlier PPs had stated about losing desire but still having regular sex with their DHs. There may be little you can do to actually rev up desire in a long-term marriage, but I would imagine that an equal relationship and no disproportionate burden would indeed work on avoiding the "brakes" and get to a situation where the lower-drive spouse was actually happy, not just "willing" to take one for the team. Not ideal, but something.

Also, not sure the "therapist" mentioned this but I think as some of the PPs discussed above, there is an aspect of the choreplay issue that synchs with the confidence/dominance theme too: and that is, as PPs complain, when DH plays dumb/acts like a baby/never takes initiative in the household, it is actually a huge turn off. So it is not whether any particular chore is complete, e.g. the floor mopped, but the broader point that a DH who seems habitually lazy/shirking/incompetent* is really unattractive from just a primal caveman/cavewoman perspective too!

*I have no opinion about whether this happens frequently or rarely, nor any desire to enter the weird battle of the sexes on this thread. Just that *theoretically* I can see some overlap between the dominance and choreplay theories....

Nope. Choreplay and an "equal relationship" not only does not get women hot, it actively turns women off.

http://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/savvy/journals/ASR/Feb13ASRFeature.pdf

"Our findings suggest the importance of gender display for sexual frequency in heterosexual marriage: couples where men participate more in core tasks—work typically done by women—report lower sexual frequency."

"In one survey found that nice guys who were modest, agreeable, and unselfish were disadvantaged in sexual relationships. Men who were manipulative, arrogant, calculating, and sly were more sexually active and had a greater variety of sexual experiences and a greater number of sex partners. [Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy]"

Ghee, you would have thought a "Sex Therapist" would know this. The chore play theory is nonsense, plain and simple.

For casual sex, maybe the arrogant a** gets more from women looking to play. But maybe that type of man also gets more because he at least pretends to care about a woman and her feelings.

If DH acts like an a** or I'm exhausted from doing all the chores or I am feeling disrespected, I'm not feeling it. (so that "survey" is full of s***)

Also, some of you men, even though you refuse to admit it, as you get older, things don't work so well, (which has NOTHING to do with your partner -its biology and too many beers/doughnuts) Then you get grouchy and/or angry. No woman wants to have sex with a grumpy, old, selfish demanding man.