The game and Alpha/Beta

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing about the PUA bullshit is that it starts from a place where women are not considered to be individual human beings worth respect. They're not designed to build relationships with other people. They're designed to achieve sexual satisfaction or external validation.

Men who internalize these messages objectify women. They have a "manual" of techniques that will work on "women." It doesn't even matter who the target is, as long as she's an attractive female - and it's ALWAYS an attractive female. They're not interested in fat women or plain women, except insofar as those women may be more receptive even to disrespectful attention because they don't get a lot of attention.

Then when this strategy doesn't work, they talk about how bitchy attractive women are, how they just judge men by their looks and their bank accounts, how they're misunderstood and wronged.

Yep. And they say things like, "Women are too picky. They go for only attractive guys when a nice guy is right there in front of them."

Meanwhile, they usually are pursuing the very traditionally attractive women, never even sparing a thought for women who are not conventionally attractive or overweight. So it's the hypocritical mess.

And on top of it they like to make comments like "women are only good for sex, they're a dime a dozen" or whatever to make up for the fact that they are completely, totally obsessed with women and have kind of centered their lives around the idea of getting a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no patience for women that have no sympathy for guys in the approach department. Many women think it doesn't involve any great skill. But their own conversational abilities suck. They think to the contrary because guys act interested. But that's largely because guys don't care what they say--especially at first-- they're just thinking if they want to have sex with them. For most women I've encountered, their standard approach (when they take the initiative) is "Hi" or "How's it going?" And it works because a guy is happy the woman is taking the initiative and showing interest. But if a guy did something that lame, it would be quick, easy, and decisive rejection. Guys--especially introverted guys--look to books and other sources for help, because what women say will work, doesn't in fact work in the slightest.

Guy here, when I was single, "hi" and "how's it going" were my go-to opening lines and were often successful. But I was mostly approaching women who, seconds prior, had been making flirty eye contact. I think some guys are under the impression from movies that you're supposed to approach a woman who shows no interest in you and "woo" her. That's how it works some of the time but more commonly you are approaching a woman who has demonstrated some interest, either in previous conversations or eyes or body languge or you heard from a mutual friend etc. In those cases "hi" and a smile will usually result in a conversation and a future meet-up...

"Hi" or "How's it going?"

Denzel Washington - it works.
Clarence Thomas - doesn't work.

See, there you go again. You clearly don't place much value on relationships with people, since it's all about strategy, winning losing, what works, what does not work. It's not a game.

[Anonymous]

Never heard of The Game so looked it up. HA HA.

A book written by an ugly man getting tips about harvesting nookie from ugly men that scored so called women they never had a chance with before. Yeah.

Only a crazy lonely lib chick would fall for that shit. Beta males are pathetic and show it. Alpha males ooze pheromones. Once you go Alpha you never go back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing about the PUA bullshit is that it starts from a place where women are not considered to be individual human beings worth respect. They're not designed to build relationships with other people. They're designed to achieve sexual satisfaction or external validation.

Men who internalize these messages objectify women. They have a "manual" of techniques that will work on "women." It doesn't even matter who the target is, as long as she's an attractive female - and it's ALWAYS an attractive female. They're not interested in fat women or plain women, except insofar as those women may be more receptive even to disrespectful attention because they don't get a lot of attention.

Then when this strategy doesn't work, they talk about how bitchy attractive women are, how they just judge men by their looks and their bank accounts, how they're misunderstood and wronged.

Yep. And they say things like, "Women are too picky. They go for only attractive guys when a nice guy is right there in front of them."

Meanwhile, they usually are pursuing the very traditionally attractive women, never even sparing a thought for women who are not conventionally attractive or overweight. So it's the hypocritical mess.

I think the PUA attitude is bullshit, and I think the whines of "nice guys" are mostly wrong. But, that said, I also think that the "nice guys only want hot girls" argument is bullshit. I've been out of the dating game a long time, so maybe times have changed, but when I was in school, the second tier girls weren't interested in the nice guys either. They were more prone to be attracted to mean, athletic guys.

Nice guys should just treat women like humans, but if the nice guys aren't attractive, there just aren't a lot of girls who are going to be interested in them in any case. At least not until they're beyond their early 20s when attractiveness and social status becomes less important, and qualities that contribute to long term stability becomes more important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Never heard of The Game so looked it up. HA HA.

A book written by an ugly man getting tips about harvesting nookie from ugly men that scored so called women they never had a chance with before. Yeah.

Only a crazy lonely lib chick would fall for that shit. Beta males are pathetic and show it. Alpha males ooze pheromones. Once you go Alpha you never go back.

What's a "lib chick."?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing about the PUA bullshit is that it starts from a place where women are not considered to be individual human beings worth respect. They're not designed to build relationships with other people. They're designed to achieve sexual satisfaction or external validation.

Men who internalize these messages objectify women. They have a "manual" of techniques that will work on "women." It doesn't even matter who the target is, as long as she's an attractive female - and it's ALWAYS an attractive female. They're not interested in fat women or plain women, except insofar as those women may be more receptive even to disrespectful attention because they don't get a lot of attention.

Then when this strategy doesn't work, they talk about how bitchy attractive women are, how they just judge men by their looks and their bank accounts, how they're misunderstood and wronged.

Yep. And they say things like, "Women are too picky. They go for only attractive guys when a nice guy is right there in front of them."

Meanwhile, they usually are pursuing the very traditionally attractive women, never even sparing a thought for women who are not conventionally attractive or overweight. So it's the hypocritical mess.

I think the PUA attitude is bullshit, and I think the whines of "nice guys" are mostly wrong. But, that said, I also think that the "nice guys only want hot girls" argument is bullshit. I've been out of the dating game a long time, so maybe times have changed, but when I was in school, the second tier girls weren't interested in the nice guys either. They were more prone to be attracted to mean, athletic guys.

Nice guys should just treat women like humans, but if the nice guys aren't attractive, there just aren't a lot of girls who are going to be interested in them in any case. At least not until they're beyond their early 20s when attractiveness and social status becomes less important, and qualities that contribute to long term stability becomes more important.

The point is, physical attractiveness is important to both men and women. Get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The point is, physical attractiveness is important to both men and women. Get over it.

That's fine, just own it. Let's not tell people that just talking to people of the opposite sex like humans is the key to having a shot with them. Let's be honest that you have to be close to their physical attractiveness before those other much vaunted - but less important - human qualities matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point is, physical attractiveness is important to both men and women. Get over it.

That's fine, just own it. Let's not tell people that just talking to people of the opposite sex like humans is the key to having a shot with them. Let's be honest that you have to be close to their physical attractiveness before those other much vaunted - but less important - human qualities matter.

Oh, I do. I'm pretty upfront- a guy has to be hot to get my attention. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never read this book or any like it but I used to do fairly well with women before I got married and I don't know exactly what negging is but acting aloof / like you are doing the woman a favor by paying attention to her absolutely works, and the hotter she is the better it works.

Women will say they want to be pursued, but eagerness is often perceived as desperation. So you have to get the woman to *want* you to pursue her, but then come close to ignoring her and she's yours. If she thinks you have better options than her she wants you more.

Even self aware women who can see through the bullshit (usually) can be susceptible to this with the right guy. And I don't mean *right* in the sense one guy can get good enough at this to make any woman fall for him, I mean a given man for that given woman, if he goes the aloof route rather than the attention giving route, will be much more successful.

New poster, guy here, yeah, this. I never read that stuff, seemed contrived to me and I didn't need the advice, but I knew one guy in particular who did, and as far as I could gather from him the whole point is to just not obsess about any one prospect and keep different irons in the fire, have fun, see what happens.

So if girl1 is making your life difficult, just go hang out with girl2 for a while and eventually girl1 comes around. Which is basically how most young attractive confident guys operate anyway when they are in the fooling around, not thinking about marriage phase of life. Not being a jerk, but just being confident that the sea is full of fish. It's really about having lots of options or, in the meantime, pretending like you do, which is a very successful strategy in all "meet markets" including job interviews, dating, etc.

The problem is that the most visible/vocal proponents seem to be douchebags with a lot of sexist baggage, plus they have made it way more complicated than it needs to be in an effort to sell books to lonely frustrated guys (and even workshops like tom cruise's character in magnolia! LOL). but the basic idea, to be or to appear to be someone with many desirable romantic options, is as old as time.

This is all you need to read. I was reasonably successful while I was single, this was the trick. Find a girl you like, stop in and talk, pay a compliment, and walk away, go talk to another girl, it will raise your profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point is, physical attractiveness is important to both men and women. Get over it.

That's fine, just own it. Let's not tell people that just talking to people of the opposite sex like humans is the key to having a shot with them. Let's be honest that you have to be close to their physical attractiveness before those other much vaunted - but less important - human qualities matter.

Oh, I do. I'm pretty upfront- a guy has to be hot to get my attention. Period.

Good deal. When I was a younger man, pre-internet, trying to read up on "what a woman wants," magazines and books and the stuff I got through the popular media was full of bullshit like women want a sense of humor, a sensitive guy who listens to her, a gentleman. Sense of humor doesn't hurt and frequently helps. Sensitive and being a gentleman can actually be negatives if you don't pull it off the right way. But a good dose of "if you're not as attractive as she is, don't bother because none of that stuff matters as much as physical appearance" would have been helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point is, physical attractiveness is important to both men and women. Get over it.

That's fine, just own it. Let's not tell people that just talking to people of the opposite sex like humans is the key to having a shot with them. Let's be honest that you have to be close to their physical attractiveness before those other much vaunted - but less important - human qualities matter.

Oh, I do. I'm pretty upfront- a guy has to be hot to get my attention. Period.

Good deal. When I was a younger man, pre-internet, trying to read up on "what a woman wants," magazines and books and the stuff I got through the popular media was full of bullshit like women want a sense of humor, a sensitive guy who listens to her, a gentleman. Sense of humor doesn't hurt and frequently helps. Sensitive and being a gentleman can actually be negatives if you don't pull it off the right way. But a good dose of "if you're not as attractive as she is, don't bother because none of that stuff matters as much as physical appearance" would have been helpful.

Yeah, I wish this was more obvious. Truth be told, a hot guy can ruin things by being a douche, easily. But the fact of the matter is, if there is not that instant attraction, it's really hard to raise your stakes with a "good personality".

Women are just as "physical" and "visual" as men, I just think we're told not to express that.

There's a reason why women pin up pictures of Chris Hemsworth and not Ed Sheeran. Simply being a nice person does not entitle you to the other person being sexually attracted to you.

[Anonymous]

Well, hell, I'm a straight guy, and I'm half tempted to pin up pictures of Hemsworth. He's a good looking dude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point is, physical attractiveness is important to both men and women. Get over it.

That's fine, just own it. Let's not tell people that just talking to people of the opposite sex like humans is the key to having a shot with them. Let's be honest that you have to be close to their physical attractiveness before those other much vaunted - but less important - human qualities matter.

I'm the poster who suggested treating women like people rather than "targets." I never said that physical attractiveness is not important. Of course it is. I wasn't saying that being a respectful decent human being was "the key to having a shot." I was suggesting that people should stop treating human relationships like a game or a contest. I mentioned attractiveness only because there is a massive double standard in the PUA bullshit. Denigrating women for being interested in attractive men rather than unattractive men while simultaneously only being interested in attractive women. It's childish and unattractive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no patience for women that have no sympathy for guys in the approach department. Many women think it doesn't involve any great skill. But their own conversational abilities suck. They think to the contrary because guys act interested. But that's largely because guys don't care what they say--especially at first-- they're just thinking if they want to have sex with them. For most women I've encountered, their standard approach (when they take the initiative) is "Hi" or "How's it going?" And it works because a guy is happy the woman is taking the initiative and showing interest. But if a guy did something that lame, it would be quick, easy, and decisive rejection. Guys--especially introverted guys--look to books and other sources for help, because what women say will work, doesn't in fact work in the slightest.

As if these women would want to talk to you. Keep dreaming.

I know, a man's true measure is in how often he can get laid. By your standard, your standard-issue athlete with ~10 kids by ~5 women is a true winner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no patience for women that have no sympathy for guys in the approach department. Many women think it doesn't involve any great skill. But their own conversational abilities suck. They think to the contrary because guys act interested. But that's largely because guys don't care what they say--especially at first-- they're just thinking if they want to have sex with them. For most women I've encountered, their standard approach (when they take the initiative) is "Hi" or "How's it going?" And it works because a guy is happy the woman is taking the initiative and showing interest. But if a guy did something that lame, it would be quick, easy, and decisive rejection. Guys--especially introverted guys--look to books and other sources for help, because what women say will work, doesn't in fact work in the slightest.

As if these women would want to talk to you. Keep dreaming.

I know, a man's true measure is in how often he can get laid. By your standard, your standard-issue athlete with ~10 kids by ~5 women is a true winner.

This is pretty important. Part of toxic masculinity is the idea that a man's sexual success with women is intrinsic to his worth as a man. You can see this sometimes around here where people call a guy a "loser" because he's not getting laid.