Worried about freeloader sibling when parents pass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so clear from everyone’s descriptions of their “freeloading”, “lazy” siblings that these folks are not well and mental health issues and/or developmental disabilities.

First, it's not clear.

Second, some of us have mental health issues of our own. I have had depression since I was a teenager. Ir have ADHD. What I have -- the stable family, the career, the financial stability-- was not something I lucked into or came easily to me. It took work and grit. I'll be damned if I'm sacrificing my future, or my kids' future, for someone who received help for many years while I was left to fend for myself. I built a life for myself and it was not easy. I want to be able to help own children as no one ever helped me. Supporting my entitled BIL who has successfully browbeaten my MIL into supporting him is not an obligation I feel I have. They can sort out their dysfunctional codependence however they want, but I don't owe them anything here.

Who said you owed them anything??
You working hard and working through your challenges is wonderful and says a lot about your grit and resilience. But exactly what does that have to do with your BIL’s situation?
I had a now deceased parent that my grandparents enabled and coddled their entire life. This parent was not their best self or best parent they could be ba cause of this on top of whatever depression/emotional issues I suspect they had.
I did not get what I “should have” but I have no bitterness. I feel sorry for them, because I realize they did not either.
We can have empathy and draw firm boundaries all at the same time.
Bitterness burns a hole in us not the other person.

In my case, my FIL tried to browbeat my DH into agreeing to take on care for my BIL. In OP's case, the parents are also trying to get OP to agree to take this one. The reason this becomes an issue is because the parents who have enabled the behavior for decades suddenly realize that once they die, these full grown adults will want/need a caretaker, and they often turn to the adult children they've ignored for those same decades for this service.

I can have empathy but I have to steal myself to say "no" when I know the question is coming or has already been asked. I do actually feel very bad for my BIL, who I think has been robbed of a much better life by his parents' decision to coddle instead of setting firm boundaries and forcing him to stand on his own feet.

Do you know how some of us discover that this expectation has been placed on us, sometimes without us even knowing? When we have kids and discover family members are actually angry at us for having children because they know it will make it easier for us to say no to taking on caretaking of capable adults, and will leave less money, space, and bandwidth for the never-launched siblings we are being asked to care for. You want to talk about bitterness and resentment? Consider that my MIL and BIL both resent the existence of my children because it has screwed up their plans.

[Anonymous]

My ILs are both dead now, but my BIL was very much a failure to launch guy, and while I would not be surprised to learn that mental health issues contributed to that, they weren't the only factor at play.

After my FIL died, my MIL would occasionally wonder what would happen "if" she weren't around (she couldn't bring herself to say "when" she died). My spouse would mumble something noncommittal, and I would say, "Well, he may surprise us all one day!" Neither of us promised to take care of him, because NFW.

And when my MIL died, he rented a room from a family he knew and did temp work. Then he rented a room in a household of friends from a church group. He seems fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Easy to point blame at the sister. The parents have created this situation.

Agree. It's parentification taken to an extreme. The parents fail at parenting one of their children, and then leave the job for one of their more successful children to complete. Often the adult child being asked to become caretaker has already had to sacrifice for this same sibling many times in the past.

But I also do think here is some personal responsibility for the dependent adult children in these situations. Even if there are factors like ADHD or mental health issues. Many of us have dealt with those kinds of challenges. You need to have the will to make your own way in the world. Parents can enable bad choices but the choices still belong to the individual. You can't just erase free will from the equation here.

Like in OP's situation, where is the line between the parents enabling this sister by letting her live with them and supporting her financially, and the sister CHOOSING to remain dependent on her parents? It is hard to say, but you can't argue it's all the fault of the parents. It's shared. The sister could decide tomorrow "I don't want to live this way." She probably sometimes has thoughts about it because very few people will respect someone in their 30s who is living like that -- she probably has friends and peers who openly criticize her for it. But she keeps choosing it, because it is easier than making some effort to live independently. Even just getting an easy job and continuing to live with her parents, but working 30 hours a week in retail or something with no barriers to entry and saving her income. Anything. This is a choice she is making, likely because she expects/hopes to get her parents' home and most of their money when they die. It is a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ILs are both dead now, but my BIL was very much a failure to launch guy, and while I would not be surprised to learn that mental health issues contributed to that, they weren't the only factor at play.

After my FIL died, my MIL would occasionally wonder what would happen "if" she weren't around (she couldn't bring herself to say "when" she died). My spouse would mumble something noncommittal, and I would say, "Well, he may surprise us all one day!" Neither of us promised to take care of him, because NFW.

And when my MIL died, he rented a room from a family he knew and did temp work. Then he rented a room in a household of friends from a church group. He seems fine.

This. People figure it out. My observation of both my brother who is somewhat like this, and my BIL who is a lot like this, is that often they demonstrate a lot of skill and ability simply in securing the largesse of their parents. There are often skills of manipulating emotions and performing just enough elder care to justify keeping the situation going. It is not a person who is a total failure who doesn't have any ability to make money or feed themselves or maintain relationships. Often it's someone who has a lot of skills but they've been misdirected and incorrectly rewarded for many years, and if forced to find another way, they 100% would. But their parents have given them an easy out for a long time and the longer they took it, the harder it was for them to do anything else.

[Anonymous]

At some point everyone is responsible for their own actions and decisions. You can blame bad parenting or tough circumstances but every single person eventually has to own up to their own choices. The parents may have coddled and spoiled one kid to oblivion, but IMO that is not an excuse for a 35 year old + to sit on their @ss all day, taking money from their parents.

I have one sibling like this and another sort of 50% like this. However I was not coddled at all and basically forced to grow up and be financially independent at 18 (my parents paid 0 for my college, and that’s ok). I am thankful they didn’t coddle me, but some of it is just my personality to want to be independent. My 50% taker sibling will take as min as you hand out but once the well runs dry suddenly she CAN find a job. My other sibling is mean, angry, rude and insufferable. He’s the baby, at 42. He SOMETIMES drives for grubhub but otherwise just spends my mother’s money (and she gives it to him). He just feels entitled to not having to work but getting whatever he wants. Are my parents to blame? Sure but at his age so is he.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ILs are both dead now, but my BIL was very much a failure to launch guy, and while I would not be surprised to learn that mental health issues contributed to that, they weren't the only factor at play.

After my FIL died, my MIL would occasionally wonder what would happen "if" she weren't around (she couldn't bring herself to say "when" she died). My spouse would mumble something noncommittal, and I would say, "Well, he may surprise us all one day!" Neither of us promised to take care of him, because NFW.

And when my MIL died, he rented a room from a family he knew and did temp work. Then he rented a room in a household of friends from a church group. He seems fine.

Grateful that he has been able to make it happen to the best that he can. Wish all could work out this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My BIL expects us to not only care for him but wants to live with us or he's suggested we move to where he is.

I care deeply about him but hell to the no, none of the above will happen. He has driven off family, no longer has any friends and constantly bickers with the neighbors over stupid stuff. His sister lives a city block from him and she never visits or calls. I think the house is so dirty she refuses to go there.

He's got a chip on his shoulder the size of a truck tire. He is by far the laziest human on this ship. I am not exaggerating either. This man goes grocery shopping, leaves his groceries in the car except for cold stuff and just takes out what he needs daily. Plus he has cats. We don't know how many but it's a lot. I buy his cat food because I'm afraid he will feed the cats some people food that will make them sick. He eats things no one should ever eat.

All I know is I hope I die before my husband does because I will end up having to take care of him in his old age. I can't do it. I really can't. If it were my parents I would gladly do what I needed to do but not with him. The stress alone would literally kill me.
Should my husband go before me I am moving to another state and will have my sister come live with me.

Textbook autism, PP. Most of these failure to launch adults are autistic. The disorder is often comorbid with social and generalized anxiety, OCD, mental rigidity, and executive function issues (ADHD). He doesn't clean his house because he can't. He hoards because he's both a cheapskate and he can't triage and sort. He transgresses things like expiration dates and stores things in his car, because he's not restricted by social mores and has discovered it's OK.

My husband is autistic. If he was a little more impacted by it than he is, and didn't have a high IQ to stave off the worse of it, he would be your BIL. As it is, I have to keep a watchful eye on expiration dates and draw red lines for his hoarding tendencies.

Wow, suddenly, my life with my mom, dad, sister and her kids, and her husband are starting to make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ILs are both dead now, but my BIL was very much a failure to launch guy, and while I would not be surprised to learn that mental health issues contributed to that, they weren't the only factor at play.

After my FIL died, my MIL would occasionally wonder what would happen "if" she weren't around (she couldn't bring herself to say "when" she died). My spouse would mumble something noncommittal, and I would say, "Well, he may surprise us all one day!" Neither of us promised to take care of him, because NFW.

And when my MIL died, he rented a room from a family he knew and did temp work. Then he rented a room in a household of friends from a church group. He seems fine.

This. People figure it out. My observation of both my brother who is somewhat like this, and my BIL who is a lot like this, is that often they demonstrate a lot of skill and ability simply in securing the largesse of their parents. There are often skills of manipulating emotions and performing just enough elder care to justify keeping the situation going. It is not a person who is a total failure who doesn't have any ability to make money or feed themselves or maintain relationships. Often it's someone who has a lot of skills but they've been misdirected and incorrectly rewarded for many years, and if forced to find another way, they 100% would. But their parents have given them an easy out for a long time and the longer they took it, the harder it was for them to do anything else.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My BIL expects us to not only care for him but wants to live with us or he's suggested we move to where he is.

I care deeply about him but hell to the no, none of the above will happen. He has driven off family, no longer has any friends and constantly bickers with the neighbors over stupid stuff. His sister lives a city block from him and she never visits or calls. I think the house is so dirty she refuses to go there.

He's got a chip on his shoulder the size of a truck tire. He is by far the laziest human on this ship. I am not exaggerating either. This man goes grocery shopping, leaves his groceries in the car except for cold stuff and just takes out what he needs daily. Plus he has cats. We don't know how many but it's a lot. I buy his cat food because I'm afraid he will feed the cats some people food that will make them sick. He eats things no one should ever eat.

All I know is I hope I die before my husband does because I will end up having to take care of him in his old age. I can't do it. I really can't. If it were my parents I would gladly do what I needed to do but not with him. The stress alone would literally kill me.
Should my husband go before me I am moving to another state and will have my sister come live with me.

Textbook autism, PP. Most of these failure to launch adults are autistic. The disorder is often comorbid with social and generalized anxiety, OCD, mental rigidity, and executive function issues (ADHD). He doesn't clean his house because he can't. He hoards because he's both a cheapskate and he can't triage and sort. He transgresses things like expiration dates and stores things in his car, because he's not restricted by social mores and has discovered it's OK.

My husband is autistic. If he was a little more impacted by it than he is, and didn't have a high IQ to stave off the worse of it, he would be your BIL. As it is, I have to keep a watchful eye on expiration dates and draw red lines for his hoarding tendencies.

Wow, suddenly, my life with my mom, dad, sister and her kids, and her husband are starting to make sense.

+1. Same with MIL and SIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At some point everyone is responsible for their own actions and decisions. You can blame bad parenting or tough circumstances but every single person eventually has to own up to their own choices. The parents may have coddled and spoiled one kid to oblivion, but IMO that is not an excuse for a 35 year old + to sit on their @ss all day, taking money from their parents.

I have one sibling like this and another sort of 50% like this. However I was not coddled at all and basically forced to grow up and be financially independent at 18 (my parents paid 0 for my college, and that’s ok). I am thankful they didn’t coddle me, but some of it is just my personality to want to be independent. My 50% taker sibling will take as min as you hand out but once the well runs dry suddenly she CAN find a job. My other sibling is mean, angry, rude and insufferable. He’s the baby, at 42. He SOMETIMES drives for grubhub but otherwise just spends my mother’s money (and she gives it to him). He just feels entitled to not having to work but getting whatever he wants. Are my parents to blame? Sure but at his age so is he.

Agree with this. I think describing what the entitlement looks like in person makes a difference.

My BIL has no business living with his mom, who does not want or need him there. But he has a temper, and it comes out when he feels bad about himself, and nothing makes him feel worse about himself than pointing out that he's a 48 year old man living in his mother's house and he needs to move out. So the situation persists because every time the prospect of him moving out arises, he has an outburst and many people (not us, but my MIL and other family members) rush to placate him in order to calm him down, and the upshot is that he stays.

He is absolutely capable of living on his own, and has done it successfully before. He is scared of it, and he also has an immense amount of pride that feels threatened by the reality of what he could afford if he lived independently. It's easier on his ego to stay with his mom and convince himself he's doing it for her (he is not, she would like to sell her home and move into assisted living and has stated this several times). He is also afraid of losing her house, which he does not want her to sell, so he stays to keep a physical hold on this thing he views as belonging to him.

It is a choice. The reason some of you who are urging empathy and patience are getting pushback is that these are people who have often been treated with a ton of empathy and patience for many decades, and that's why they are in this situation. At some point, people needed to set boundaries with them and chose not to because it was easier. But those boundaries would have worked. They just never happened.

[Anonymous]

I had a FTL uncle. His siblings and their spouses were super pissed being saddled with him asking for money all the time after their dad died. They stopped giving money and his health deteriorated pretty quickly without proper health care and nutrition. My sister, his niece, went to visit and found him emaciated. She started getting him signed up for services, which he qualified for, but his own parents and siblings never did that which really surprises me in retrospect. He really wasn’t capable of figuring out how to do that in his own.

I would urge OP and others to seek diagnoses and services the FTL people probably qualify for as early as possible. Don’t let them starve and don’t let them freeload if they qualify for government assistance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a FTL uncle. His siblings and their spouses were super pissed being saddled with him asking for money all the time after their dad died. They stopped giving money and his health deteriorated pretty quickly without proper health care and nutrition. My sister, his niece, went to visit and found him emaciated. She started getting him signed up for services, which he qualified for, but his own parents and siblings never did that which really surprises me in retrospect. He really wasn’t capable of figuring out how to do that in his own.

I would urge OP and others to seek diagnoses and services the FTL people probably qualify for as early as possible. Don’t let them starve and don’t let them freeload if they qualify for government assistance.

Part of the problem is that their parents did not want to deal with the stigma of mental illness, learning disabilities and developmental disabilities. The buck gets passed to the siblings.

[Anonymous]

What a mess and I sympathize with you all. These posts put my small and temporary family crisis into perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a FTL uncle. His siblings and their spouses were super pissed being saddled with him asking for money all the time after their dad died. They stopped giving money and his health deteriorated pretty quickly without proper health care and nutrition. My sister, his niece, went to visit and found him emaciated. She started getting him signed up for services, which he qualified for, but his own parents and siblings never did that which really surprises me in retrospect. He really wasn’t capable of figuring out how to do that in his own.

I would urge OP and others to seek diagnoses and services the FTL people probably qualify for as early as possible. Don’t let them starve and don’t let them freeload if they qualify for government assistance.

Part of the problem is that their parents did not want to deal with the stigma of mental illness, learning disabilities and developmental disabilities. The buck gets passed to the siblings.

In my FTL uncles case l don’t think the dad was trying to avoid the stigma of a diagnosis, l think it was ignorance and inertia. He also didn’t get himself signed up for services he qualified for (veterans) until his SIL did the research and got him signed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can your parents leave all their estate to her? I would recommend you suggest they do that and tell them you and brother will not be able to financially support her since you have your own families to take care of. Be very firm about this.

And then she burns through it. What then?