Worried about freeloader sibling when parents pass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a FTL uncle. His siblings and their spouses were super pissed being saddled with him asking for money all the time after their dad died. They stopped giving money and his health deteriorated pretty quickly without proper health care and nutrition. My sister, his niece, went to visit and found him emaciated. She started getting him signed up for services, which he qualified for, but his own parents and siblings never did that which really surprises me in retrospect. He really wasn’t capable of figuring out how to do that in his own.

I would urge OP and others to seek diagnoses and services the FTL people probably qualify for as early as possible. Don’t let them starve and don’t let them freeload if they qualify for government assistance.

Part of the problem is that their parents did not want to deal with the stigma of mental illness, learning disabilities and developmental disabilities. The buck gets passed to the siblings.

In my sibling's family, it's the oldest child with austism. The other three kids also have tremendous need and I suspect are on the spectrum, but the parents created this dynamic where it's just this one kids' needs versus everyone else, and everyone must center this one kid. So noone got the help they needed, not even the one that they cater to because it's more for their identity than anything else. It's like tehy couldn't cognitively handle other kids with needs. One has very severe ADHD, and my sibling is like "ADHD can be managed, it's not the autism". I 'm like "YES BUT YOU HAVE TO MANAGE IT!" Not just sit there .

So relatable. The assumption that if you don't have the biggest, worst problem in the family, then you have no problems at all AND have the capacity to help and support the one person with the most problems is so common.

I think on all the challenges I've dealt with as an adult with absolutely no support from my family -- depression, a birth injury, a kidney disorder, my husband losing both his parents, and a kid with special needs. And I've never had a parent or sibling offer any kind of support through any of that -- no one has ever come to stay with my kids while I rehabbed from surgery, or checked in on me while I struggled through depression, or reached out to support my family through loss.

And now they think I'm going to take in one of my siblings like a third child and support them until I die? NO. Why? I had to figure it out. So can they. It's not how I think it should be and it's not how I treat my own children, but it's the precedent my parents set and I'm not going to martyr myself to fixing their mistakes.

+1. We were asked to do the same and said no. Now we are ostracized from the rest of the family for being "selfish." I guess we'll just muddle through by ourselves as usual.

I bet my siblings think I was a freeloader. Every career move I made was criticized. My parents criticized everything I did. Every time I tried to leave they outlined all of the problems they foresaw. I attempted to leave and left and had horrible depression. I forgot how to do things I used to be able to do like grocery shop and cook. When I left I couldn't afford things like car repairs so I kept going back. My self esteem and confidence was wrecked.

Now that I finally got out from under their thumb and criticism, and their "help" I'm doing ok I have to start adulting over at 45.

I wasn't living high on the hog, freeloading...I was trapped in many ways.

I wouldn't consider you a "freeloader" because of your difficulties. I think people refer to people as freeloaders that could move out and have the abiliy to support themselves but would rather be supported by their parents or a sibling so they can live more carefree and expensive lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has to be more to this? I understand this is your perspective and that there is surely truth in it, but there must be more to this. Can you tell us the story from your parents’ perspective? Or maybe your sister’s if you can do it constructively? I just want to understand what is actually happening. It just seems so absurd that I know there must be more to the story.

Why? I have witnessed lots of families that head high expectations for the older kids and enabled the youngest.

OP make it clear to your dad that you will not support your sister and that the best thing he can do is help her find a job and help her to live on her own. At 35 she can still learn. It will be rough, but it is possible.

In our case, I"m the youngest and the older sister is the one who never finished college, hasn't worked in 30+ years b/c she decided to be completely dependent upon deadbeat husband (despite warnings and help to separate from him). Yet, I'm supposed to clean this mess up? No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so clear from everyone’s descriptions of their “freeloading”, “lazy” siblings that these folks are not well and mental health issues and/or developmental disabilities.

First, it's not clear.

Second, some of us have mental health issues of our own. I have had depression since I was a teenager. Ir have ADHD. What I have -- the stable family, the career, the financial stability-- was not something I lucked into or came easily to me. It took work and grit. I'll be damned if I'm sacrificing my future, or my kids' future, for someone who received help for many years while I was left to fend for myself. I built a life for myself and it was not easy. I want to be able to help own children as no one ever helped me. Supporting my entitled BIL who has successfully browbeaten my MIL into supporting him is not an obligation I feel I have. They can sort out their dysfunctional codependence however they want, but I don't owe them anything here.

Mental health and developmental disabilities might be explanations, but they are not excuses.

[Anonymous]

Going through the same shit with my 58 year old sister.....very stressful

[Anonymous]

I have ADHD and I'm pretty annoyed that some of you seem to think that means I can't support myself.

For a while I drifted around and I realized what I was doing wasn't sustainable. I went to a doctor, the doctor diagnosed me, I started taking meds, and things improved dramatically.

"Oh they have ADHD" = You're not helping anyone. You're enabling a bad situation. You can recognize that someone has an issue, but the solution isn't to ignore it. You can't just point at mental health and say they and the family need to continue to be damaged. Step 1 is identification of the issue, step 2 is getting help. Real help, not "they can't work so you have to support them."

[Anonymous]

If your sister is living with your aging parents she’s doing more than you realize to make sure they are taken care of.

Either way, I would just make sure she knows you are not supporting her after they pass so she can plan. But I would do it as nicely as possible and maybe direct her to info on how to get food stamps and help herself. And hopefully that will be motivation for her to at least start thinking about independence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest sibling is 10 years younger than me and 7 from our middle sibling. Middle sibling and I are successful because we have worked hard and wanted a better life than what we grew up with. Our youngest sibling is what you would call failure to launch. She is very beautiful and always assumed she would get by on her looks, but at 35 they haven’t gotten her anywhere because she is a very difficult and entitled seeming person. She is single, has never had a job and lives with our parents. They have never pushed her to do anything, which I don’t understand given that college and careers were non-negotiable for my younger brother and me. But my parents give her the little money they do have to buy nice clothes, go out with friends, and live a life well beyond her means.

My dad is in his early 80s and not in good health. It’s not clear how much longer he will be around, and he has started trying to have conversations about who will care for my mom and younger sister when he dies. Of course my brother and I will take care of our mom, but we have mixed feelings about what to do about our younger sister. We think the discussion should be around finding her a job and setting her up to be able to support herself, but my dad disagrees and thinks she should move in with one of us and be allowed to just live her life as she pleases while we support her. She feels the jobs she would be qualified for are way beneath her and has zero interest in ever having a job. My brother and I are really bitter about the prospect of supporting a 35 year old for the rest of her life simply because she doesn’t want to work and feel like this is going to be a disaster when my dad passes because my mom strongly agrees with my dad.

How do we navigate this now so it doesn’t all blow up at some point. We don’t want our sister to be homeless on the street, but find it unacceptable to have to just suck it up and support her for the long term.

Your mother had a very long span of being a mom and basically didn't want to give it up. My youngest sibling by 9 years also had this problem where the parents basically crippled any effort to launch - they wanted her to stay their baby.
I've also seen it in other families. It's a terrible disservice to the youngest child.
She is young enough to still pick up her life though. I have known people who went to law school in their late 30s. While these people were never going to make partner at biglaw, they still came out of it with decent professional prospects. If your parents really want to provide for her, they could set aside money for a professional program for her. After that, it's up to her.
She is not your problem. She is THEIR problem.

1. This OP post could be about my family, with some details changed.
2. My mom prevented a launch of my sibling. It’s sad to see. He actually held him back. In later years she convinced him that he “needed to take care “ of them as elderly people.
3. He developed mental issues and is depressed (ongoing), you know, because after a few failed relationships, he never navigated adulthood. Now going on the third decade.
4. Seems more common with multiple siblings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your sister is living with your aging parents she’s doing more than you realize to make sure they are taken care of.

Either way, I would just make sure she knows you are not supporting her after they pass so she can plan. But I would do it as nicely as possible and maybe direct her to info on how to get food stamps and help herself. And hopefully that will be motivation for her to at least start thinking about independence.

This. Address your sibling in these talks, not your dad/mom. Let her know how things will be when they are gone. You are not moving her into your home. Have a frank conversation with EVERYONE. Seems like dad is trying play provider from the grave, & making deals with you to pass on responsibility for sibling to you. Don’t let him have these conversations without your sister there - insist on all meeting together to talk about what happens when dad passes.

[Anonymous]

I told my parents to make their wishes black and white and very clear so there isn’t fighting. Then just leave it at that.

[Anonymous]

It is remarkable how many of you assume there will be an estate plan when only 30% of Americans even have a will.

A relative just died without one; the result is that her assets are being split between the children evenly (and one of those children is going to have some significant problems that could have been avoided as a result—she’s on Medicaid).

I would bet a lot more people are in this situation than posters here seem to think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why make such declarations? Act agreeable. Make sure a will that suits you is drawn up and then just don’t take care of her and that’s that.

This is the smart and strategic thing to do.

It's also pathologically dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why make such declarations? Act agreeable. Make sure a will that suits you is drawn up and then just don’t take care of her and that’s that.

Honestly this. If you make a declaration it then becomes a mad scramble for the parents to not only direct everything to the sibling but start finding ways to get you supporting her without your knowledge. They will divert their resources to her and then ask you for money for themselves, which will be handed over to her.

[Anonymous]

Here is the answer off the top of my head:
Navigating this situation is incredibly delicate, as it involves family dynamics, financial considerations, and long-term planning for both your parents and your younger sibling. Here's a structured approach that might help you and your brother manage the situation more effectively:

1. Initiate a Family Conversation:
Gather everyone together (including your parents and younger sibling) to have an open and honest conversation about the future. It’s important that everyone understands the seriousness of the situation, especially given your father's health.

Set clear goals for the meeting: The focus should be on discussing realistic plans for your mother's and sister's future, rather than on past grievances or criticisms.

2. Discuss the Long-Term Reality:
Highlight the financial implications: Make it clear that while you and your brother are willing to care for your mother, you simply cannot afford (financially or emotionally) to support an adult sibling indefinitely. Explain how this would affect your own families and futures.

Present the reality of your father's passing: When he is no longer around, the financial and caregiving responsibilities will shift entirely to you and your brother, which makes it imperative to prepare your sister for self-sufficiency.

3. Propose a Compromise:
Support with conditions: If supporting your sister is non-negotiable for your parents, suggest a compromise where she receives temporary support but with clear expectations that she will take steps toward independence.

This might include:

Job training or education: Offer to help her find a program or job training that aligns with her interests and abilities.

Counseling: If your sister is resistant to working or independence, she may benefit from counseling or life coaching to address underlying issues and set realistic goals.

4. Establish Boundaries:

Set clear limits on financial support: Agree on what kind of financial support, if any, you and your brother are willing to provide. This might be a fixed amount for a set period, after which she is expected to contribute to her own living expenses.

Living arrangements: If your sister does end up living with one of you, set clear house rules and expectations, such as contributing to household chores or pursuing employment.

5. Legal and Financial Planning:

Involve a financial planner or attorney: If your father is open to it, consider involving a professional to help create a financial plan that includes provisions for your mother and sister. This might involve setting up a trust or other financial arrangements that support your sister without burdening you and your brother indefinitely.

Discuss inheritance and estate planning: Make sure that everyone is clear on how any inheritance or financial assets will be divided and managed after your father's passing.

6. Prepare for the Worst-Case Scenario:
Plan for non-cooperation: If your sister refuses to cooperate, you and your brother should prepare a contingency plan. This might include setting limits on how much you’re willing to help and considering options for social services or other community resources that could assist her if she refuses to support herself.

7. Maintain Unity with Your Brother:
Stay united: It’s important that you and your brother present a united front. If one of you gives in to your parents’ or sister’s demands, it will undermine your position and make it more difficult to enforce boundaries.

8. Seek Mediation if Necessary:
Consider professional mediation: If the family discussions become too emotional or unproductive, a professional mediator can help facilitate a more structured and neutral conversation.

Final Thoughts:
Balancing your responsibility to your family with your own well-being is challenging. The key is to be compassionate but firm, making it clear that while you care deeply about your sister, enabling her dependence is not an option. By addressing this issue proactively and with a clear plan, you can hopefully avoid future conflicts and ensure that everyone’s needs are met as fairly as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the answer off the top of my head:
Navigating this situation is incredibly delicate, as it involves family dynamics, financial considerations, and long-term planning for both your parents and your younger sibling. Here's a structured approach that might help you and your brother manage the situation more effectively:

1. Initiate a Family Conversation:
Gather everyone together (including your parents and younger sibling) to have an open and honest conversation about the future. It’s important that everyone understands the seriousness of the situation, especially given your father's health.

Set clear goals for the meeting: The focus should be on discussing realistic plans for your mother's and sister's future, rather than on past grievances or criticisms.

2. Discuss the Long-Term Reality:
Highlight the financial implications: Make it clear that while you and your brother are willing to care for your mother, you simply cannot afford (financially or emotionally) to support an adult sibling indefinitely. Explain how this would affect your own families and futures.

Present the reality of your father's passing: When he is no longer around, the financial and caregiving responsibilities will shift entirely to you and your brother, which makes it imperative to prepare your sister for self-sufficiency.

3. Propose a Compromise:
Support with conditions: If supporting your sister is non-negotiable for your parents, suggest a compromise where she receives temporary support but with clear expectations that she will take steps toward independence.

This might include:

Job training or education: Offer to help her find a program or job training that aligns with her interests and abilities.

Counseling: If your sister is resistant to working or independence, she may benefit from counseling or life coaching to address underlying issues and set realistic goals.

4. Establish Boundaries:

Set clear limits on financial support: Agree on what kind of financial support, if any, you and your brother are willing to provide. This might be a fixed amount for a set period, after which she is expected to contribute to her own living expenses.

Living arrangements: If your sister does end up living with one of you, set clear house rules and expectations, such as contributing to household chores or pursuing employment.

5. Legal and Financial Planning:

Involve a financial planner or attorney: If your father is open to it, consider involving a professional to help create a financial plan that includes provisions for your mother and sister. This might involve setting up a trust or other financial arrangements that support your sister without burdening you and your brother indefinitely.

Discuss inheritance and estate planning: Make sure that everyone is clear on how any inheritance or financial assets will be divided and managed after your father's passing.

6. Prepare for the Worst-Case Scenario:
Plan for non-cooperation: If your sister refuses to cooperate, you and your brother should prepare a contingency plan. This might include setting limits on how much you’re willing to help and considering options for social services or other community resources that could assist her if she refuses to support herself.

7. Maintain Unity with Your Brother:
Stay united: It’s important that you and your brother present a united front. If one of you gives in to your parents’ or sister’s demands, it will undermine your position and make it more difficult to enforce boundaries.

8. Seek Mediation if Necessary:
Consider professional mediation: If the family discussions become too emotional or unproductive, a professional mediator can help facilitate a more structured and neutral conversation.

Final Thoughts:
Balancing your responsibility to your family with your own well-being is challenging. The key is to be compassionate but firm, making it clear that while you care deeply about your sister, enabling her dependence is not an option. By addressing this issue proactively and with a clear plan, you can hopefully avoid future conflicts and ensure that everyone’s needs are met as fairly as possible.

I love when AI tries to address problems in human systems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can your parents leave all their estate to her? I would recommend you suggest they do that and tell them you and brother will not be able to financially support her since you have your own families to take care of. Be very firm about this.

And then she burns through it. What then?

Not your problem. My brother finally got his financial act together when he realized our parents' estate was the last of the handouts. Unless he marries a well-to-do woman, that is.