Stopping caring saved my marriage

[Anonymous]

How do you actually decide to not care? For example, I abhor clutter and mess, and my husband doesn't care at all. I spend a lot of time picking up after him (e.g., he won't throw away empty bottles, dirty socks are strewn about, random paper like receipts are just hanging out on countertops). I don't think he has ever cleaned the bathroom, or mopped any surface of our house. And he is the one making messes - I clean up as soon as I make a mess. I spend so much time doing that that I am not able to make my own stuff the way I want, so I have a basket of clean, unfolded clothes of mine sitting in my bedroom that I wish were put away, but I am really tired and spend my time dealing with his mess. He likely will never pick up after himself. I have tried not doing it and it just gets completely out of control. It's like he doesn't see it, and it certainly doesn't bother him. So how does someone get to the point of not caring?

By the way, my marriage has some pretty serious problems (infidelity, financial disagreements, etc.), so I might be more focused on smaller issues just because I am generally upset. But I would like to not care about the smaller stuff.

[Anonymous]

Does your DH have space in the house that is considered "his"? Like an office, 1/2 of the bedroom, etc? Dump his stuff there. Let him deal with it. The only time my DH started caring about the mess he made and the piles of junk he amassed was when it was all piled in his space and it finally overwhelmed him. Took 9 months - when my limit is a few days of clutter. I don't really care about his space, I don't have to go in there ever and don't have to see it. But he had no choice but to realize that all of that stuff was his to deal with, and his fault. Nothing I could have said would have ever impressed that upon him.

But really, spend your time being angry about the real things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have the kind of marriage where "laying down the law" results in positive changes, then this thread is not for you. It's for the people like pp who, after a million conversations, still has a spouse who comes home and thinks he's entitled to have the night to himself after a hard day at work. I'm in that group, and there comes a time when you have to accept that what you're doing has not worked and will not work, no matter how many times you repeat it. If you do not want a divorce because of your kids, then you have to take a step back and figure out what works for you. The upside is that a lot of times it's the stepping back that makes lazy husbands step forward a bit.

I HATE the idea of laying down the law. I cannot imagine if a DH came in here and said he "laid down the law" with his wife ... that would be a hell of a shtstorm, don't you think?

I don't think wives or husbands should "lay down the law." You have a partnership. Or do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think it is not caring. It is prioritizing yourself while including/being nice to spouse. Like the PP said, I'm making XX for dinner. Oh, you don't want it? I'm sorry, make yourself ZZ. But this isn't about not caring entirely. I'll make DH's favorites, too. This is about caring for yourself, doing the things you want, inviting your spouse, and allowing them the space to partake. He/she could do this to you, too. DH: I'd like to go bowling, do you want to come? Regardless of what my answer is, he gets to do what he wants. If I want to go, great, we have a good time. If I don't, that's OK, he can STILL have a good time.

You need to lean not to give a fu#k what he thinks about your cooking. I felt this way for a long time but I learned to just not care. Don't like it, I don't care.
If you made dinner though, it's just rude to say you don't like it or don't want it. That is disrespectful. That actually would hurt my feelings quite a bit. Not that he doesn't like the food but he can't even care enough about me to pretend in order to be courteous and polite?

It took my spouse years to stop criticizing dinner I made under the guise of 'discussion' about how it could be 'better.' Just say thank you for making dinner and eat something else. We don't let the children criticize dinner, you should not either. It WAS hurtful to make dinner nightly and only hear how I could have made it better.

The thing is, I do care, and I DO want my family to like and eat the dinners I cook. I would like everybody to enjoy dinner together. I try to make dinners that people will like. But, with a family you cannot please everybody all of the time, so learning to just appreciate the fact that I actually COOKED DINNER would be nice. And modeling that for the children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your DH have space in the house that is considered "his"? Like an office, 1/2 of the bedroom, etc? Dump his stuff there. Let him deal with it. The only time my DH started caring about the mess he made and the piles of junk he amassed was when it was all piled in his space and it finally overwhelmed him. Took 9 months - when my limit is a few days of clutter. I don't really care about his space, I don't have to go in there ever and don't have to see it. But he had no choice but to realize that all of that stuff was his to deal with, and his fault. Nothing I could have said would have ever impressed that upon him.

But really, spend your time being angry about the real things.

OP here. I wouldn't care about the mess when you have bigger issues here. I would focus on those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the kind of marriage where "laying down the law" results in positive changes, then this thread is not for you. It's for the people like pp who, after a million conversations, still has a spouse who comes home and thinks he's entitled to have the night to himself after a hard day at work. I'm in that group, and there comes a time when you have to accept that what you're doing has not worked and will not work, no matter how many times you repeat it. If you do not want a divorce because of your kids, then you have to take a step back and figure out what works for you. The upside is that a lot of times it's the stepping back that makes lazy husbands step forward a bit.

I HATE the idea of laying down the law. I cannot imagine if a DH came in here and said he "laid down the law" with his wife ... that would be a hell of a shtstorm, don't you think?

I don't think wives or husbands should "lay down the law." You have a partnership. Or do you?

No, I don't have a partnership. I do almost everything. That's why I get to lay down the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your DH have space in the house that is considered "his"? Like an office, 1/2 of the bedroom, etc? Dump his stuff there. Let him deal with it. The only time my DH started caring about the mess he made and the piles of junk he amassed was when it was all piled in his space and it finally overwhelmed him. Took 9 months - when my limit is a few days of clutter. I don't really care about his space, I don't have to go in there ever and don't have to see it. But he had no choice but to realize that all of that stuff was his to deal with, and his fault. Nothing I could have said would have ever impressed that upon him.

But really, spend your time being angry about the real things.

For me, a clean house is a "real" thing. Wanting my husband to care about what I care about (such as a clean house) is a "real" thing. In return, I try to care about what he cares about (such as sex more frequently than perhaps I would choose on my own). Thank god my husband understands and tries. I can't get on board with this whole message. I think it's a really bad idea. It's basically for people who are a step or two away from divorce anyway. I don't think people with really strong, good marriages try to detach from their spouses and their spouses needs and wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your DH have space in the house that is considered "his"? Like an office, 1/2 of the bedroom, etc? Dump his stuff there. Let him deal with it. The only time my DH started caring about the mess he made and the piles of junk he amassed was when it was all piled in his space and it finally overwhelmed him. Took 9 months - when my limit is a few days of clutter. I don't really care about his space, I don't have to go in there ever and don't have to see it. But he had no choice but to realize that all of that stuff was his to deal with, and his fault. Nothing I could have said would have ever impressed that upon him.

But really, spend your time being angry about the real things.

For me, a clean house is a "real" thing. Wanting my husband to care about what I care about (such as a clean house) is a "real" thing. In return, I try to care about what he cares about (such as sex more frequently than perhaps I would choose on my own). Thank god my husband understands and tries. I can't get on board with this whole message. I think it's a really bad idea. It's basically for people who are a step or two away from divorce anyway. I don't think people with really strong, good marriages try to detach from their spouses and their spouses needs and wants.

The poster who wrote about this issue admitted there were way, way worse things going on like affairs, financial mishaps, etc. I would care much, much less about wiping a counter down than I would about my spouse cheating. You don't run around dusting while your house is on fire.

[Anonymous]

I am going to jump in here and give a real life laundry detachment example.

After our fourth was born I told my husband I cannot handle the laundry anymore, could he take it over? Yes he could he said. He did not have much of a choice, I was working, nursing the baby, and cooking the meals. I did not have more time. He did it his way though. I never said a word about it being done. I took all my special launder clothing to the dry cleaner. I didn't criticize. I let go of the task.

Fast forward 3 years. Laundry was a huge battle, he would wash it, yell at the kids to fold it, they would fight throughout the whole task, the laundry was thrown in draws, socks were lost and everywere, the whole thing was a mess.

One day I bought all four kids and my husband their own basket and decided each person would have their own day and fold their own clothing, most of the laundry frustration was with the sorting and re-pairing of the socks. I started doing this and it worked amazingly, no one fought or complained about folding their own clothes only. Anyway, my husband saw this vastly improved process and bought right in.

I guess the detachment came though when I handed the task over to him and never bitched or micromanaged again. But it did mean we had to have productive discussions about the process and who would do what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am going to jump in here and give a real life laundry detachment example.

After our fourth was born I told my husband I cannot handle the laundry anymore, could he take it over? Yes he could he said. He did not have much of a choice, I was working, nursing the baby, and cooking the meals. I did not have more time. He did it his way though. I never said a word about it being done. I took all my special launder clothing to the dry cleaner. I didn't criticize. I let go of the task.

Fast forward 3 years. Laundry was a huge battle, he would wash it, yell at the kids to fold it, they would fight throughout the whole task, the laundry was thrown in draws, socks were lost and everywere, the whole thing was a mess.

One day I bought all four kids and my husband their own basket and decided each person would have their own day and fold their own clothing, most of the laundry frustration was with the sorting and re-pairing of the socks. I started doing this and it worked amazingly, no one fought or complained about folding their own clothes only. Anyway, my husband saw this vastly improved process and bought right in.

I guess the detachment came though when I handed the task over to him and never bitched or micromanaged again. But it did mean we had to have productive discussions about the process and who would do what.

But your husband wasn't smart enough to come up with that solution - you still had to figure it out even though he took over the task.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am going to jump in here and give a real life laundry detachment example.

After our fourth was born I told my husband I cannot handle the laundry anymore, could he take it over? Yes he could he said. He did not have much of a choice, I was working, nursing the baby, and cooking the meals. I did not have more time. He did it his way though. I never said a word about it being done. I took all my special launder clothing to the dry cleaner. I didn't criticize. I let go of the task.

Fast forward 3 years. Laundry was a huge battle, he would wash it, yell at the kids to fold it, they would fight throughout the whole task, the laundry was thrown in draws, socks were lost and everywere, the whole thing was a mess.

One day I bought all four kids and my husband their own basket and decided each person would have their own day and fold their own clothing, most of the laundry frustration was with the sorting and re-pairing of the socks. I started doing this and it worked amazingly, no one fought or complained about folding their own clothes only. Anyway, my husband saw this vastly improved process and bought right in.

I guess the detachment came though when I handed the task over to him and never bitched or micromanaged again. But it did mean we had to have productive discussions about the process and who would do what.

But your husband wasn't smart enough to come up with that solution - you still had to figure it out even though he took over the task.

Haha yes, agreed. That unfortunately is my cross to bear in this lifetime, a smart husband who thinks he is smarter than me, but I know the truth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

For me, a clean house is a "real" thing. Wanting my husband to care about what I care about (such as a clean house) is a "real" thing. In return, I try to care about what he cares about (such as sex more frequently than perhaps I would choose on my own). Thank god my husband understands and tries. I can't get on board with this whole message. I think it's a really bad idea. It's basically for people who are a step or two away from divorce anyway. I don't think people with really strong, good marriages try to detach from their spouses and their spouses needs and wants.

I can't make anyone care about the things that are important to me, nobody can. The point of this thread is that it's not important to me that my husband cares about the things that I care about. I am a whole person without his validation. And when I was able to see that clearly then the arguing stopped, my life became clearer and we began to enjoy each other more. My marriage is hardly a step or two from divorce, quite the contrary. I have more contentment now then I have ever had, because I began to see that the person responsible for my happiness is 100% me. I am happy when we see eye to eye on values and priorities but I am not disappointed when we don't. He and I are. It clones, he doesn't have to care about the things that I care about. I value our differences and don't expect him to make me whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This happened to me too. I adored my husband and tried to please him and looked for his constant approval. He was an asshole on many occasions and I realized I was the one who loved him more in the relationship.

It's been almost 10 years and I don't care acdamn anymore. I don't care if we divorce tomorrow. Our marriage couldn't be better, he adores me and pretty much kisses my ass. It's evident he is the one who loves me more now.

Go figure.

I stopped caring and respecting and loving an ex who cheated. Didnt care and he became more jealous and worried. He went as far as stalking me and giving me countless gifts and more attention. As soon as you dont care he knows you are unemotional as he and willing to cheat and act selfish as he did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your DH have space in the house that is considered "his"? Like an office, 1/2 of the bedroom, etc? Dump his stuff there. Let him deal with it. The only time my DH started caring about the mess he made and the piles of junk he amassed was when it was all piled in his space and it finally overwhelmed him. Took 9 months - when my limit is a few days of clutter. I don't really care about his space, I don't have to go in there ever and don't have to see it. But he had no choice but to realize that all of that stuff was his to deal with, and his fault. Nothing I could have said would have ever impressed that upon him.

But really, spend your time being angry about the real things.

For me, a clean house is a "real" thing. Wanting my husband to care about what I care about (such as a clean house) is a "real" thing. In return, I try to care about what he cares about (such as sex more frequently than perhaps I would choose on my own). Thank god my husband understands and tries. I can't get on board with this whole message. I think it's a really bad idea. It's basically for people who are a step or two away from divorce anyway. I don't think people with really strong, good marriages try to detach from their spouses and their spouses needs and wants.

The poster who wrote about this issue admitted there were way, way worse things going on like affairs, financial mishaps, etc. I would care much, much less about wiping a counter down than I would about my spouse cheating. You don't run around dusting while your house is on fire.

Exactly - I wasn't trying to say that a clean house wasn't a real thing, but the PP mentioned infidelity and financial problems being issues in her marriage - in light of that, her anger about the house is misplaced.

[Anonymous]

This sounds a lot like therapist Haariet Lerner in the Dance of Anger;0: a Woman's guide to changing the patterns of intimate relationships. I couldn't put the book down.

In this book, Lerner treats anger as a signal that something is going wrong. She explains that only when we address the "something wrong" in a useful way will the anger go away. Then she explores the "dances" we engage in, in our attempts to make our partner care and listen. She suggests that most of our attempts when angry focus on the person(s) we think made us mad, rather than on ourselves. She compassionately and wisely shows how to disengage from the anger and the counter-productive patterns, while staying connected and acting with integrity. However, she also acknowledges the effect that this sort of change can have on other people in the dance, and she provides guidance in maintaining oneself in the face of countermoves.

Fundamentally, it describes a different way to think about unproductive loops, and discussion of the ways in wich one can respond. It's a way of thinking, which can radically change the way one engages with the world.