Just don't really care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these pages later, and still OP hasn't told us what explanations his wife gives for having no interest in sex. And no, "she just cries and says she feels like a bad wife" is not acceptable. That's a defensive response, not a productive examination and explanation. Does she have orgasms? Is she attracted to you? Do you have real skills (not the bogus stuff you see porn guys do)? Is she angry with you?

Maybe she's a typical burned-out woman with multiple kids and a job, who's so overextended that sleep feels better than anything. Very common for certain phases of life, and we can all sympathize with the effect on both sides.

Does she take meds that make her enjoy sex less or not at all? Do you two have toys to help her enjoy it? If she's just sprawled there like a doll while you putter around with her, and she has no sexual response, then something is really wrong. Maybe your techniques don't suit her, and maybe she's afraid to take charge of her enjoyment and use a toy or tell you what she likes.

If you've ever experienced ED, you know that feeling pressure to perform makes it worse. She could be feeling something like that.

So, any answers?

OP Here

All these pages later, and still OP hasn't told us what explanations his wife gives for having no interest in sex. And no, "she just cries and says she feels like a bad wife" is not acceptable. That's a defensive response, not a productive examination and explanation. Does she have orgasms? Is she attracted to you? Do you have real skills (not the bogus stuff you see porn guys do)? Is she angry with you? ----Explanations mostly revolve around being tired, busy, frustrated by her day, just not in the mood right now etc. Nothing tangible or actionable. She does have orgasms when we do have sex. I assume she isn't attracted to me anymore or we would probably be having sex I think I have skills, have been with many women before her with no complaint, she had no complaint before when we were having more sex and if there is a complaint, she won't share it. I don't think she is angry with me, overall we get along good and no major events like cheating/spending all our money on dumb things or anything like that

Maybe she's a typical burned-out woman with multiple kids and a job, who's so overextended that sleep feels better than anything. Very common for certain phases of life, and we can all sympathize with the effect on both sides. ----She is, but she was like this starting after we got married and before we had kids. Plus a pretty equal distribution of the house work and kid stuff, so she really shouldn't be more burned out than I am, I have a much more demanding and time intensive job. With three kids you have to share work evenly just for the logistical aspect of it, not trying to be a super dad/husband, just needs to be done.

Does she take meds that make her enjoy sex less or not at all? Do you two have toys to help her enjoy it? If she's just sprawled there like a doll while you putter around with her, and she has no sexual response, then something is really wrong. Maybe your techniques don't suit her, and maybe she's afraid to take charge of her enjoyment and use a toy or tell you what she likes. ----No meds that she takes. She has a dildo she had since before we got together and I got her a vibe but she won't incorporate either. Both in her drawer, never come out. I have asked numerous times if there is anything she wants to try/do differently and she says no.

Just wanted to respond to your questions.

Like I said, he is not looking at himself. It's all her. Until he owns up to his own part in this -including that he may not be as skilled as he thinks- this will go nowhere. Yes, agree that she should state her complaints if any and talk them through. But, it's not all on her to talk about these things. If she won't get some professional help and tell her she needs to participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.

IOW, you were using sex as a weapon/ bargaining tool in your marriage. You have no one to blame but yourself and should not receive sympathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.

A sexless marriage is equally cheating the marital vows to Have and to Hold. Why should a spouse who never "agreed" to a sexless marriage care if their spouse "agrees" with the Open marriage? Why does the sexless partner want to stay married to somebody they don't want sex with? If the declared Open marriage bothers the sexless partner, he/she can easily divorce. Sounds like that's exactly what happened in your marriage. But to be clear, your marriage did not end due to his AP, it ended due to your unilateral sexless declaration. His AP was the expected and justified reaction to you destroying your marriage. The burden of filing for divorce was correctly placed on the spouse who destroyed the marriage: you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the replies. Really I wasn't complaining or looking for reasons why or ways to improve it. I have done all of the things that the well meaning posters have replied to no avail. The bottom line is that at this point I am just kind of over it. No, I don't want to divorce over sex, we do have a good life overall. That said, I just find it increasingly to care about my wife as a wife when the part of our relationship that makes it a marriage is pretty much gone. Really all I was looking for was to see if anyone on here had been in my shoes and how they managed it without making the marriage worse.

You are kidding yourself if you believe that "staying faithful" in a sexless marriage is a working solution. No normal man just "gives up" on sex. No, you are not "over it". You will say Yes to the first mildly attractive woman who flirts with you, and it WILL happen, sooner than later. Meanwhile at home your "just dont care" attitude will devolve into increasing discontent and eventually toxic resentment. Go read Deadbedrooms on reddit, your story has been played out 20 million times with the same result.

Just get it over with right now: text her that you've decided to have an Open marriage, don't wait up for you because Friday night is fun night. This is the only sustainable way to "save" your marriage.

[Anonymous]

Np- heading over to deadbedrooms!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.

IOW, you were using sex as a weapon/ bargaining tool in your marriage. You have no one to blame but yourself and should not receive sympathy.

Huh? Sympathy? For what? I don't need any sympathy, nothing bad happened. I wasn't using sex as a "weapon", that's just funny. What was my goal? Libido wasn't the reason for the lack of sex, it was ex's attitude about it. Some people can do "I do it for you, you do it for me" routine, I can't. I suggested "wham-bam-thank you, ma'am" approach (both get the quick release and done), before i started to avoid it. It wasn't accepted. That is what reminded me of OP's "I wanted to stop it was so bad".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.

A sexless marriage is equally cheating the marital vows to Have and to Hold. Why should a spouse who never "agreed" to a sexless marriage care if their spouse "agrees" with the Open marriage? Why does the sexless partner want to stay married to somebody they don't want sex with? If the declared Open marriage bothers the sexless partner, he/she can easily divorce. Sounds like that's exactly what happened in your marriage. But to be clear, your marriage did not end due to his AP, it ended due to your unilateral sexless declaration. His AP was the expected and justified reaction to you destroying your marriage. The burden of filing for divorce was correctly placed on the spouse who destroyed the marriage: you.

It's always two people who are at fault, so it's not an issue. My question remains. Why do you think that declaring an open marriage is a viable solution to preserving a marriage? No sex or AP are equally destructive. My ex had that idea and was hurt that I filed and didn't want to divorce, I was puzzled. Why keep a sham afloat? He lost me as a friend at that point too, because of those views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.

IOW, you were using sex as a weapon/ bargaining tool in your marriage. You have no one to blame but yourself and should not receive sympathy.

Huh? Sympathy? For what? I don't need any sympathy, nothing bad happened. I wasn't using sex as a "weapon", that's just funny. What was my goal? Libido wasn't the reason for the lack of sex, it was ex's attitude about it. Some people can do "I do it for you, you do it for me" routine, I can't. I suggested "wham-bam-thank you, ma'am" approach (both get the quick release and done), before i started to avoid it. It wasn't accepted. That is what reminded me of OP's "I wanted to stop it was so bad".

So you didn’t really give XDH (who most likely loves you to the moon and back) the opportunity to take advantage of this “offer” since you quickly lost interest in your own idea? Got it. How many divorces is this for you now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.

A sexless marriage is equally cheating the marital vows to Have and to Hold. Why should a spouse who never "agreed" to a sexless marriage care if their spouse "agrees" with the Open marriage? Why does the sexless partner want to stay married to somebody they don't want sex with? If the declared Open marriage bothers the sexless partner, he/she can easily divorce. Sounds like that's exactly what happened in your marriage. But to be clear, your marriage did not end due to his AP, it ended due to your unilateral sexless declaration. His AP was the expected and justified reaction to you destroying your marriage. The burden of filing for divorce was correctly placed on the spouse who destroyed the marriage: you.

It's always two people who are at fault, so it's not an issue. My question remains. Why do you think that declaring an open marriage is a viable solution to preserving a marriage? No sex or AP are equally destructive. My ex had that idea and was hurt that I filed and didn't want to divorce, I was puzzled. Why keep a sham afloat? He lost me as a friend at that point too, because of those views.

A normal libido person can not stay (faithful) in a sexless marriage. It is an unstable condition, like balancing a toothpick on end, it might work for 10 seconds but WILL soon fall over. Opening the marriage allows the normal libido to meet his/her normal sexual needs. So the marriage becomes a stable roommate situation, versus a failed romance between friends withOUT benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.

IOW, you were using sex as a weapon/ bargaining tool in your marriage. You have no one to blame but yourself and should not receive sympathy.

Huh? Sympathy? For what? I don't need any sympathy, nothing bad happened. I wasn't using sex as a "weapon", that's just funny. What was my goal? Libido wasn't the reason for the lack of sex, it was ex's attitude about it. Some people can do "I do it for you, you do it for me" routine, I can't. I suggested "wham-bam-thank you, ma'am" approach (both get the quick release and done), before i started to avoid it. It wasn't accepted. That is what reminded me of OP's "I wanted to stop it was so bad".

So you didn’t really give XDH (who most likely loves you to the moon and back) the opportunity to take advantage of this “offer” since you quickly lost interest in your own idea? Got it. How many divorces is this for you now?

I can see why OP's wife is avoiding him. Most would with all that, quite the turn-off. It sounds like OP has obsessed about this and hounded her.

Since OP can't get his way he is making her pay in other areas. Really dumb since it sounds like they have a decent marriage otherwise.

OP wait until you get divorced, and see what's out there. Most women your age will also have kids. You have 3. It becomes a big mess if you can't compromise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.

IOW, you were using sex as a weapon/ bargaining tool in your marriage. You have no one to blame but yourself and should not receive sympathy.

Huh? Sympathy? For what? I don't need any sympathy, nothing bad happened. I wasn't using sex as a "weapon", that's just funny. What was my goal? Libido wasn't the reason for the lack of sex, it was ex's attitude about it. Some people can do "I do it for you, you do it for me" routine, I can't. I suggested "wham-bam-thank you, ma'am" approach (both get the quick release and done), before i started to avoid it. It wasn't accepted. That is what reminded me of OP's "I wanted to stop it was so bad".

So you didn’t really give XDH (who most likely loves you to the moon and back) the opportunity to take advantage of this “offer” since you quickly lost interest in your own idea? Got it. How many divorces is this for you now?

Au contraire. He didn't like the offer and started to complain non-stop. One divorce is enough, not making mismatched sex mistake again.

[Anonymous]

So basically, here is my understanding of OP's situation:

His wife isn't pleasing him sexually. He has talked to her, but because it's upsetting, he doesn't push the issue. At this point, he does not want to have the sex she's offering him and thinks that it's perfectly acceptable for him to avoid her and secretly feel contemptuous of her. Doesn't want to interact with her. Doesn't want to hear about her day. Doesn't seem to care about her at all, actually.

He also doesn't want to change the situation, but at least one poster on this thread thinks that you can "declare a marriage open" in order to justify cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So basically, here is my understanding of OP's situation:

His wife isn't pleasing him sexually. He has talked to her, but because it's upsetting, he doesn't push the issue. At this point, he does not want to have the sex she's offering him and thinks that it's perfectly acceptable for him to avoid her and secretly feel contemptuous of her. Doesn't want to interact with her. Doesn't want to hear about her day. Doesn't seem to care about her at all, actually.

He also doesn't want to change the situation, but at least one poster on this thread thinks that you can "declare a marriage open" in order to justify cheating.

Hi, OP here

I don't want to push the issue/communicate with her because I have done so multiple times over the past years with no change in behavior except for her breaking down and crying. I have resigned myself to the fact that continuing discussion is fruitless. I don't want to have the sex she's offering because I'm not really into having sex with someone who so clearly doesn't want to have sex with me. I don't think its OK to feel contemptuous of her or to not care about her, that is the whole point of this thread. If I thought it was OK and I was fine with it I wouldn't have posted this thread. What I am saying is at this point based on the history of the sexual relationship I am having a hard time figuring out how to not act this way. I don't want to end my family becuase my wife no longer actively wants to bang me. I was simply trying to see if anyone out there had any constructive ways that I could try to handle this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically, here is my understanding of OP's situation:

His wife isn't pleasing him sexually. He has talked to her, but because it's upsetting, he doesn't push the issue. At this point, he does not want to have the sex she's offering him and thinks that it's perfectly acceptable for him to avoid her and secretly feel contemptuous of her. Doesn't want to interact with her. Doesn't want to hear about her day. Doesn't seem to care about her at all, actually.

He also doesn't want to change the situation, but at least one poster on this thread thinks that you can "declare a marriage open" in order to justify cheating.

Hi, OP here

I don't want to push the issue/communicate with her because I have done so multiple times over the past years with no change in behavior except for her breaking down and crying. I have resigned myself to the fact that continuing discussion is fruitless. I don't want to have the sex she's offering because I'm not really into having sex with someone who so clearly doesn't want to have sex with me. I don't think its OK to feel contemptuous of her or to not care about her, that is the whole point of this thread. If I thought it was OK and I was fine with it I wouldn't have posted this thread. What I am saying is at this point based on the history of the sexual relationship I am having a hard time figuring out how to not act this way. I don't want to end my family becuase my wife no longer actively wants to bang me. I was simply trying to see if anyone out there had any constructive ways that I could try to handle this situation.

The only way for you and your wife to move forward in your marriage is to talk about the issue. She is clearly fine with the status quo. You are not. Right now, your unhappiness is manageable in that you are not actively seeking ways out of the marriage, are not being mean to her, etc. That is not likely to continue for very long. Look at how you have been this week. She's sick and you don't care. You don't want to talk to her about it because you don't think there's anything that can be done, which is understandable, but that attitude is not going to change your situation.

You need to figure out what, specifically, you need from her. Is it weekly sex? Is it enthusiasm during sex? The second is a harder ask. The first is a thing that you can schedule, but you have to make peace with it being boring. It sounds like your wife is a repressed sexual person and really uncomfortable communicating about sexuality. Are there situations in which she relaxes and is able to be less inhibited?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the replies. Really I wasn't complaining or looking for reasons why or ways to improve it. I have done all of the things that the well meaning posters have replied to no avail. The bottom line is that at this point I am just kind of over it. No, I don't want to divorce over sex, we do have a good life overall. That said, I just find it increasingly to care about my wife as a wife when the part of our relationship that makes it a marriage is pretty much gone. Really all I was looking for was to see if anyone on here had been in my shoes and how they managed it without making the marriage worse.

Treat her kindly and with respect for the sake of your children. Always be polite and civil in front of them. Treat her like a friend who you are raising children with. Strangely, people are often nicer to their friends than spouses because their expectations for that role are much lower so if you can get back to thinking of her that way, you are golden.

Find a friend who you can share your emotional life with.