Just don't really care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL maintenance availability

OP here, no real argument here about that, but the difference was this time it wasn't lame, she at least seemed invested for the first time in many years. Not kidding myself that this is going to be ongoing or the issue is solved.

Or she found this thread and is preparing for divorce. Nothing like sex to make you blind to it.

More likely she has decided to fake it to keep her lifestyle like many women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL maintenance availability

OP here, no real argument here about that, but the difference was this time it wasn't lame, she at least seemed invested for the first time in many years. Not kidding myself that this is going to be ongoing or the issue is solved.

Or she found this thread and is preparing for divorce. Nothing like sex to make you blind to it.

More likely she has decided to fake it to keep her lifestyle like many women.

So if you lose sexual interest in your spouse you should automatically divorce them even if you have young kids and everything else is good?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, OP here. Just following up that my wife initiated and had the most passionate sex we have had in probably the past 5 years last night. I guess not caring/behaving like I have in the past got the message across that all my other attempts of communicating in the past haven't. Just an FYI for others in my situation, not looking to restart the thread.

Serious question OP because I'm curious: are you now back to "caring" about her?

I'm really curious because my husband does this too. All lovey dovey for the day or two after we've had sex then pulls away. It's irritating.

OP here, no not really. It isn't really about the sex, that is why the sex we were occasionally having was so bad. Its about her wanting to be my wife and lover, not just getting me off to shut me up about it. If there is some ongoing change in her attitude towards our sex life in general maybe, but at this point I think its been too long and too much water under the bridge. Not trying to be a jerk but one event can't undo all that has happened.

If in your relationship you feel like you are being a good romantic partner-not just a roommate that occasionally sleeps with him to placate him- and he pulls away that is on him. But if he can tell that you feel like, "phew" now that's over with and it will go back to the way it was before then it probably won't make a difference. If that is the case, as it is in my relationship, one time won't change the dynamic of him pulling away. If that isn't the case, then he is just kind of being a jerk.

The thing that would make me engage with my wife again-"care"-is to feel like she genuinely wants to be my romantic partner. One time doesn't cancel out all the days she hasn't. And if she doesn't want to be my romantic partner, that's fine, I just can't really "care" anymore.

PP you were responding to here.

Do you ever wonder if perhaps your expectations of marriage are too high? I’m not sure how long you’ve been married but you kind of remind me of my husband with this sex=affection stuff. We’ve been married for close to 15 years and we have 3 kids. He’s my best friend, I would say we have a great marriage, but we only have sex once or twice a week (unless we’re on vacation) and, to be honest, for me it is usually “duty sex”. I’m not in the mood but he is so I throw him a bone. Once we start, I get into it but starting is a chore for me, psychologically. I love him and I want our marriage to work so I do it.

However, as in your situation, it wasn’t always like this. When we first got together, there was a genuine spark. I did feel passionately in love with him. There was a several years long honeymoon phase where I couldn’t keep my hands off him and he was all I thought about. But that was TWENTY years ago. Do you ever wonder if it is unrealistic to think you can retain that kind of euphoria and bliss for two decades? For me, and I think for a lot of women, novelty and romantic tension (“does he like me?” “Will he call?”) have a strong role to play in sexual interest and desire. After two decades, there isn’t going to be much novelty left. That’s partly why vacation sex is so good and plentiful.

I mean this seriously, not trying to be snarky. A lot of couples go through this. I mean, they call it a “honeymoon phase” for a reason and people like Esther Pearlman have made careers out of writing about it. I remember reading about this when I was a lot younger and not getting it but now I do. Maybe a rock solid friendship, mutual respect and trust, commitment, security, and yes “duty sex” or “maintence sex” 1-2 a week with the very occasional true connecting romantic sexual experience is the most you can hope for?

Yes. We know you women lose interest in sex after 2 years together. PP has it right. Twice per week "duty sex" with a good attitude keeps the marriage going. I've not seen any responses on this thread with any higher expectations than that. If OP had that, this thread would not exist. The problem is, she is not onboard with the program. So their marriage will not last.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you over value sex way too much. Basically you're still saying it's all about sex. And you have so many resentments that even if she started having more sex, it wouldn't improve your attitude.

You sound very young OP and immature. Put all that energy into your kids and be thankful you have a good thing going. There is MUCH worse out there. This is nothing.

Not OP but it seems to me that maybe you value sex too little.

PP here.

Do ya'll really believe it is realistic to be having the same kind of sex 10-20 years into the relationship as when you first got together?

I just don't think that is a realistic expectation. Especially if you have children.

Yes, it is a realistic expectation to have a regular sex life 2X per week, with or without children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL maintenance availability

OP here, no real argument here about that, but the difference was this time it wasn't lame, she at least seemed invested for the first time in many years. Not kidding myself that this is going to be ongoing or the issue is solved.

Or she found this thread and is preparing for divorce. Nothing like sex to make you blind to it.

More likely she has decided to fake it to keep her lifestyle like many women.

So if you lose sexual interest in your spouse you should automatically divorce them even if you have young kids and everything else is good?

If you can't fake it, and are not OK with him having an open marriage, then YES divorce him. The alternative you seem to be proposing (little sex for him) is not sustainable and is not a viable option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, OP here. Just following up that my wife initiated and had the most passionate sex we have had in probably the past 5 years last night. I guess not caring/behaving like I have in the past got the message across that all my other attempts of communicating in the past haven't. Just an FYI for others in my situation, not looking to restart the thread.

Serious question OP because I'm curious: are you now back to "caring" about her?

I'm really curious because my husband does this too. All lovey dovey for the day or two after we've had sex then pulls away. It's irritating.

OP here, no not really. It isn't really about the sex, that is why the sex we were occasionally having was so bad. Its about her wanting to be my wife and lover, not just getting me off to shut me up about it. If there is some ongoing change in her attitude towards our sex life in general maybe, but at this point I think its been too long and too much water under the bridge. Not trying to be a jerk but one event can't undo all that has happened.

If in your relationship you feel like you are being a good romantic partner-not just a roommate that occasionally sleeps with him to placate him- and he pulls away that is on him. But if he can tell that you feel like, "phew" now that's over with and it will go back to the way it was before then it probably won't make a difference. If that is the case, as it is in my relationship, one time won't change the dynamic of him pulling away. If that isn't the case, then he is just kind of being a jerk.

The thing that would make me engage with my wife again-"care"-is to feel like she genuinely wants to be my romantic partner. One time doesn't cancel out all the days she hasn't. And if she doesn't want to be my romantic partner, that's fine, I just can't really "care" anymore.

PP you were responding to here.

Do you ever wonder if perhaps your expectations of marriage are too high? I’m not sure how long you’ve been married but you kind of remind me of my husband with this sex=affection stuff. We’ve been married for close to 15 years and we have 3 kids. He’s my best friend, I would say we have a great marriage, but we only have sex once or twice a week (unless we’re on vacation) and, to be honest, for me it is usually “duty sex”. I’m not in the mood but he is so I throw him a bone. Once we start, I get into it but starting is a chore for me, psychologically. I love him and I want our marriage to work so I do it.

However, as in your situation, it wasn’t always like this. When we first got together, there was a genuine spark. I did feel passionately in love with him. There was a several years long honeymoon phase where I couldn’t keep my hands off him and he was all I thought about. But that was TWENTY years ago. Do you ever wonder if it is unrealistic to think you can retain that kind of euphoria and bliss for two decades? For me, and I think for a lot of women, novelty and romantic tension (“does he like me?” “Will he call?”) have a strong role to play in sexual interest and desire. After two decades, there isn’t going to be much novelty left. That’s partly why vacation sex is so good and plentiful.

I mean this seriously, not trying to be snarky. A lot of couples go through this. I mean, they call it a “honeymoon phase” for a reason and people like Esther Pearlman have made careers out of writing about it. I remember reading about this when I was a lot younger and not getting it but now I do. Maybe a rock solid friendship, mutual respect and trust, commitment, security, and yes “duty sex” or “maintence sex” 1-2 a week with the very occasional true connecting romantic sexual experience is the most you can hope for?

Hi, OP here

"Do you ever wonder if perhaps your expectations of marriage are too high? I’m not sure how long you’ve been married but you kind of remind me of my husband with this sex=affection stuff. We’ve been married for close to 15 years and we have 3 kids. He’s my best friend, I would say we have a great marriage, but we only have sex once or twice a week (unless we’re on vacation) and, to be honest, for me it is usually “duty sex”. I’m not in the mood but he is so I throw him a bone. Once we start, I get into it but starting is a chore for me, psychologically. I love him and I want our marriage to work so I do it."

-Right, you just kind of made my point. Did I think I would have pornstar sex with my wife multiple times a day when we got married and had kids. Absolutely not.
Did I expect that our sex life would be semi-contentious, passionless sex once every few weeks/months, no. Did I think that my wife would be considerate of our relationship and we would work to keep it a healthy marriage, not just two people living together? Absolutely.

You have stated what a normal marriage looks like. Look at your partner's needs, figure out the best way to meet each other's needs. Do you want less sex than your husband, yes, but you consider him in the context of your marriage and work to find ways to keep it going. I am sure there are things that he does for you to be considerate of you in the marriage. The whole point of my post is that I don't feel like I can do those things for her anymore.

What you posted is what I expected when I got married. Early 40's, we have been married for 8 years, together 11. Sex issue started about 18 Months after marriage, before kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you over value sex way too much. Basically you're still saying it's all about sex. And you have so many resentments that even if she started having more sex, it wouldn't improve your attitude.

You sound very young OP and immature. Put all that energy into your kids and be thankful you have a good thing going. There is MUCH worse out there. This is nothing.

Not OP but it seems to me that maybe you value sex too little.

PP here.

Do ya'll really believe it is realistic to be having the same kind of sex 10-20 years into the relationship as when you first got together?

I just don't think that is a realistic expectation. Especially if you have children.

Yes, it is a realistic expectation to have a regular sex life 2X per week, with or without children.

I agree - ish. However, according to his latest post, the quantity of sex is not OP's (main) problem or so he says. It's the *quality* of the sex he is complaining about now.

He says he wants his wife to be "passionate" about him and he wants to be having "romantic" sex twice a week but I'm sorry, depending on how long they've been together and the fact that he admits to having a "dad bod", I think that is highly unrealistic.

Don't you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL maintenance availability

OP here, no real argument here about that, but the difference was this time it wasn't lame, she at least seemed invested for the first time in many years. Not kidding myself that this is going to be ongoing or the issue is solved.

Or she found this thread and is preparing for divorce. Nothing like sex to make you blind to it.

More likely she has decided to fake it to keep her lifestyle like many women.

So if you lose sexual interest in your spouse you should automatically divorce them even if you have young kids and everything else is good?

No, if everything else is good you have a much better marriage than most!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, OP here. Just following up that my wife initiated and had the most passionate sex we have had in probably the past 5 years last night. I guess not caring/behaving like I have in the past got the message across that all my other attempts of communicating in the past haven't. Just an FYI for others in my situation, not looking to restart the thread.

Serious question OP because I'm curious: are you now back to "caring" about her?

I'm really curious because my husband does this too. All lovey dovey for the day or two after we've had sex then pulls away. It's irritating.

OP here, no not really. It isn't really about the sex, that is why the sex we were occasionally having was so bad. Its about her wanting to be my wife and lover, not just getting me off to shut me up about it. If there is some ongoing change in her attitude towards our sex life in general maybe, but at this point I think its been too long and too much water under the bridge. Not trying to be a jerk but one event can't undo all that has happened.

If in your relationship you feel like you are being a good romantic partner-not just a roommate that occasionally sleeps with him to placate him- and he pulls away that is on him. But if he can tell that you feel like, "phew" now that's over with and it will go back to the way it was before then it probably won't make a difference. If that is the case, as it is in my relationship, one time won't change the dynamic of him pulling away. If that isn't the case, then he is just kind of being a jerk.

The thing that would make me engage with my wife again-"care"-is to feel like she genuinely wants to be my romantic partner. One time doesn't cancel out all the days she hasn't. And if she doesn't want to be my romantic partner, that's fine, I just can't really "care" anymore.

PP you were responding to here.

Do you ever wonder if perhaps your expectations of marriage are too high? I’m not sure how long you’ve been married but you kind of remind me of my husband with this sex=affection stuff. We’ve been married for close to 15 years and we have 3 kids. He’s my best friend, I would say we have a great marriage, but we only have sex once or twice a week (unless we’re on vacation) and, to be honest, for me it is usually “duty sex”. I’m not in the mood but he is so I throw him a bone. Once we start, I get into it but starting is a chore for me, psychologically. I love him and I want our marriage to work so I do it.

However, as in your situation, it wasn’t always like this. When we first got together, there was a genuine spark. I did feel passionately in love with him. There was a several years long honeymoon phase where I couldn’t keep my hands off him and he was all I thought about. But that was TWENTY years ago. Do you ever wonder if it is unrealistic to think you can retain that kind of euphoria and bliss for two decades? For me, and I think for a lot of women, novelty and romantic tension (“does he like me?” “Will he call?”) have a strong role to play in sexual interest and desire. After two decades, there isn’t going to be much novelty left. That’s partly why vacation sex is so good and plentiful.

I mean this seriously, not trying to be snarky. A lot of couples go through this. I mean, they call it a “honeymoon phase” for a reason and people like Esther Pearlman have made careers out of writing about it. I remember reading about this when I was a lot younger and not getting it but now I do. Maybe a rock solid friendship, mutual respect and trust, commitment, security, and yes “duty sex” or “maintence sex” 1-2 a week with the very occasional true connecting romantic sexual experience is the most you can hope for?

Hi, OP here

"Do you ever wonder if perhaps your expectations of marriage are too high? I’m not sure how long you’ve been married but you kind of remind me of my husband with this sex=affection stuff. We’ve been married for close to 15 years and we have 3 kids. He’s my best friend, I would say we have a great marriage, but we only have sex once or twice a week (unless we’re on vacation) and, to be honest, for me it is usually “duty sex”. I’m not in the mood but he is so I throw him a bone. Once we start, I get into it but starting is a chore for me, psychologically. I love him and I want our marriage to work so I do it."

-Right, you just kind of made my point. Did I think I would have pornstar sex with my wife multiple times a day when we got married and had kids. Absolutely not.
Did I expect that our sex life would be semi-contentious, passionless sex once every few weeks/months, no. Did I think that my wife would be considerate of our relationship and we would work to keep it a healthy marriage, not just two people living together? Absolutely.

You have stated what a normal marriage looks like. Look at your partner's needs, figure out the best way to meet each other's needs. Do you want less sex than your husband, yes, but you consider him in the context of your marriage and work to find ways to keep it going. I am sure there are things that he does for you to be considerate of you in the marriage. The whole point of my post is that I don't feel like I can do those things for her anymore.

What you posted is what I expected when I got married. Early 40's, we have been married for 8 years, together 11. Sex issue started about 18 Months after marriage, before kids.

And she just had "passionate" sex with you the other day and you're still in here complaining! I feel for your wife, man. I don't know what to tell you. I think you are being very unrealistic in your expectations regarding sex, marriage, love, the whole thing.

It's not going to feel like it did when you were dating or before you had kids. Kids + career + house = a lot of demands on your time and energy. At the end of the day, can you really blame her if she just wants to read her book for 20 minutes and chill before going to bed? I get it. It's probably not even really about you. If she's like most women, she has no energy left in her tank at the end of the day to meet one more person's demands on her time.

[Anonymous]

NP. I think one of the issues at play here is that a lot of men decompress through sex and a lot of women don't.

And since, god knows, men are SO used to considering their experiences and needs as the "default" state and have very little experience even considering other POV, they find fault with women who don't decompress through sex, as if they are the abnormal ones who need to "get with the program" of normality.

[Anonymous]

OP, looking at your time line, she probably married you because her biological clock was ticking, and she was never that passionate about you.

So after years and kids and everyday demands, naturally she's feeling it even less. But you need it.

The way human nature works, and it works against us in mid-life crisis within a long-term relationship, is that you detach more and more without the sexual bond. And she will sense when she's lost you, and her instinctive reaction will likely be to charge into passionate/hysterical sex mode, at which time you two will have passionate sex again for a while to rebond. Then it will die down again.

Of course, your growing detachment may mean you are too far gone for her to pull you back at that point.

None of these things are conscious manipulations. It's just how human nature in long-term relationships between men and women works.

The trick is to find non-harmful ways to trigger bonding instincts, and not let it go too far so that the pair bond is so broken that people become indifferent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I think one of the issues at play here is that a lot of men decompress through sex and a lot of women don't.

And since, god knows, men are SO used to considering their experiences and needs as the "default" state and have very little experience even considering other POV, they find fault with women who don't decompress through sex, as if they are the abnormal ones who need to "get with the program" of normality.

The problem is that women present themselves (falsely) as sharing the male "sex positive" POV while dating and early marriage. The "default" state of an active sex life is therefore seen as normal for both men and women. Only later do these women reveal a different POV with low interest in sex. What you sarcastically call "get with the program of normality" then is really just continuity of the relationship as it was established at the very beginning.

So you think it's OK for women to change the rules later, and men should accept it? Fine, you can take that stance. Just be prepared for an equivalent rule change when you learn that the marriage is Open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I think one of the issues at play here is that a lot of men decompress through sex and a lot of women don't.

And since, god knows, men are SO used to considering their experiences and needs as the "default" state and have very little experience even considering other POV, they find fault with women who don't decompress through sex, as if they are the abnormal ones who need to "get with the program" of normality.

The problem is that women present themselves (falsely) as sharing the male "sex positive" POV while dating and early marriage. The "default" state of an active sex life is therefore seen as normal for both men and women. Only later do these women reveal a different POV with low interest in sex. What you sarcastically call "get with the program of normality" then is really just continuity of the relationship as it was established at the very beginning.

So you think it's OK for women to change the rules later, and men should accept it? Fine, you can take that stance. Just be prepared for an equivalent rule change when you learn that the marriage is Open.

Oh hi "Open Marriage" poster. Here you are again. You think that women losing their sex drive is some conspiracy against men, when it's a commonplace and extremely unfortunate side effect of life. Fine, go have your open marriage, if it works for you. Not everything is so black and white for everyone. That's what makes this issue in marriage so difficult to work through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I think one of the issues at play here is that a lot of men decompress through sex and a lot of women don't.

And since, god knows, men are SO used to considering their experiences and needs as the "default" state and have very little experience even considering other POV, they find fault with women who don't decompress through sex, as if they are the abnormal ones who need to "get with the program" of normality.

The problem is that women present themselves (falsely) as sharing the male "sex positive" POV while dating and early marriage. The "default" state of an active sex life is therefore seen as normal for both men and women. Only later do these women reveal a different POV with low interest in sex. What you sarcastically call "get with the program of normality" then is really just continuity of the relationship as it was established at the very beginning.

So you think it's OK for women to change the rules later, and men should accept it? Fine, you can take that stance. Just be prepared for an equivalent rule change when you learn that the marriage is Open.

Oh hi "Open Marriage" poster. Here you are again. You think that women losing their sex drive is some conspiracy against men, when it's a commonplace and extremely unfortunate side effect of life. Fine, go have your open marriage, if it works for you. Not everything is so black and white for everyone. That's what makes this issue in marriage so difficult to work through.

Hi! No, I fully recognize the wives losing sex drive (for their husband) is NOT some conspiracy against men. Husbands should not take your disinterest personally, I certainly do not. Likewise, I hope you recognize that your husband's continued pursuit of an active sex life, either in or out of the marriage, is not some conspiracy against wives either. It's really not difficult at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I think one of the issues at play here is that a lot of men decompress through sex and a lot of women don't.

And since, god knows, men are SO used to considering their experiences and needs as the "default" state and have very little experience even considering other POV, they find fault with women who don't decompress through sex, as if they are the abnormal ones who need to "get with the program" of normality.

The problem is that women present themselves (falsely) as sharing the male "sex positive" POV while dating and early marriage. The "default" state of an active sex life is therefore seen as normal for both men and women. Only later do these women reveal a different POV with low interest in sex. What you sarcastically call "get with the program of normality" then is really just continuity of the relationship as it was established at the very beginning.

So you think it's OK for women to change the rules later, and men should accept it? Fine, you can take that stance. Just be prepared for an equivalent rule change when you learn that the marriage is Open.

Oh hi "Open Marriage" poster. Here you are again. You think that women losing their sex drive is some conspiracy against men, when it's a commonplace and extremely unfortunate side effect of life. Fine, go have your open marriage, if it works for you. Not everything is so black and white for everyone. That's what makes this issue in marriage so difficult to work through.

its such a myth to say women lose their drive. They lose their drive to their spouse. I think its much harder for women in a long term marriage than men.