Just don't really care

[Anonymous]

I vote 'choreplay' for Word of the Year. PP Savedyourmarriage, Thanks for sharing this. It makes me a little sad because DH knows I can't leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses. In terms of direct talk, not an option. Have talked about it on multiple times (sex/intimacy, not about not caring) and she does the usual break down and cry, I'm not a good wife response with no change at all. I am hesitant to say it directly becuase the way she is she would take it horribly and it can't be taken back. Like I said I don't want to make the marriage worse. I doubt she would cheat as she is a fiercely loyal person in general, and I don't think I would cheat, but who knows. Just went home for lunch (I work close) and she is home sick and I honestly didn't really care either way. Not who I am as a person in general but at this point I can't really muster enough to fake it.

Don't be a coward. If you don't try to fix things now, your "just don't care" will most certainly shift to resentment. And then it will be too late. You won't be able to stay once you resent her.

The reality is that happily married couples have sex regularly. Sex is what sustains intimacy and ultimately the marriage. Women and men should understand that, and they should make sex a priority. Twice a week should be the goal (even for disinterested low drive people).

When is the last time you initiated? I'm guessing she never initiates, right? She might be waiting for you to do that. Women like to be pursued...we don't like to be the aggressor. She might be wondering what's wrong if you've stopped initiating. Tip: start with a back rub.

She's not waiting for him to initiate. Sometimes you'll have a situation where all of the other elements of sexual desire are in place but the DW just needs the spark of seeing how much DH needs her to get her revved up. Strong initiations work in this situation. But that's not at all the kind of relationship that OP is describing. Strong initiations where DW is just flat not interested will only exacerbate the problem. She'll feel used and pressured. And, if she submits to the pressure and he goes ahead and has sex with her, she'll feel violated -- all of which will make her even less interested in sex in the future.

You don't know that. And neither does he...since he's too much of a coward to talk with her about it.

[Anonymous]

Both monogamy and sex are included in the covenant made between husband and wife in traditional wedding vows - “to HAVE and to hold.” They say “have” because, while in most churches, it’s frowned upon to say “fuc$ twice a week.” Somehow it’s more acceptable for a DW to lose interest in sex than it is for a DW to lose interest in monogamy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have to think hard about how long you can live like this and if you will ever be willing to divorce or sex.

When I met DW it was sex all the time. Sometime after our first child was born, it slowed down. When she told me she was pregnant for our second child I was shocked because we had not talked about planning to have a second child and we had sex so infrequently I had to do some math in my head to think if it could be mine.

After second child sex stopped. During this time I would say I was doing my share. DW was SAH, I would get up at night during both our kids infant years to feed them and change them at night, slept in spare room to insure she could get a full nights sleep. Her mother lived near by and was around 3-4 days a week to help her.

Every time I tried to initiate I was shot down. I tried to talk it out and she would cry and say she wasn't good enough. I would try to just cuddle and if I got an erection she would get mad and pull away. Even when cuddling it was us lying together me rubbing her shoulders or back and if I was lucky her laying her arm over me.
One time she said she was overwhelmed with the work in the house and watching two kids so I also started cleaning the floors doing the dishes more laundry, nothing changed, except that if I initiated she would say I only did those things to get sex. Tried to take her away for 4 days, she said I hope I don't expect sex. One time she saw me come out of the shower and I was naked and the look on her face was total disgust. After that I would make sure I always covered with a towel and got dressed in the closet to avoid ever seeing that look again

After years of sex maybe for my birthday or anniversary and me trying to talk about it or write a letter to her about it, all of which ended as her getting upset. The last one ended up in a huge argument with her saying she never liked sex and only did it so I would like her. I had enough told her I could not live this way anymore and was going to come home the following day pack my things up and leave. I sat in the driveway the following day sick to my stomach. When I walked inside she said she wanted to talk. Told me I was right, for the last 5 years now I can say she seems enthusiastic about sex and we have it typically 2x a week

Sorry for going on so long. But hat was my experience and what I did to save the marriage to someone I truly loved

NP. Good message PP. Glad it finally worked out, even if it was on the absolute brink of collapse.

To the OP: I'd really suggest insisting on couples therapy now with your wife. You've tried talking to her like PP did, and she rejected that. A good therapist can get her to talk about it and work toward progress. If she refuses to even try therapy, then you ought to give the ultimatum IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I see my wife as a sexual object, just there is no sexual response. So its not that I don't think she's hot, I tell her that all the time, she just isn't interested in me sexually anymore. I didn't settle I don't think, we had a good relationship, including sexual, when we were dating and even at the beginning of our marriage. Once we were married for a while that is when it slowed down and ended.

This is something that men need to read and understand, but they won't. They all think, that will never happen to me. She is the one and once we get married, the sex will only get better.

This is why I swear, I'll never get married again. Currently, I have a fantastic sex life with one woman and we are monogamous, but I don't even want to move in together. If it became an issue for her, I'd probably be willing to let her go before I'd make that commitment. Harsh, I know, but you live and learn. I'll never again but my sex life in the hands of a woman, or go years waiting for her to recover from whatever happened to turn off her desire.

For the low, or no libido spouse, lack of sex is no problem. It's rare that a spouse like this will ever see it as "their" problem. Her only problem is him giving her a problem about sex, or times she has to suffer through it. It's all his problem but he is powerless to solve it without her help. And she just doesn't care. She wants nothing to do with it and won't even offer a reason why.

This is way too familiar. BTDT a few times. Never again. If you wonder why so many young men are not getting married these days, or waiting a lot longer than in the past, then seeking younger partners, it's because a lot of them have gotten the message and are paying attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well you're a scumbag. You talk about staying in your marriage like it's some Noble thing to do? The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. If you can't do that, be fair to her and them and get out. Probably everyone will do well in this scenario besides you.

Wow, that is so simple, I'm amazed he didn't think of it. Don't stop there. Tell us how the rest of this plays out. Tell us from her perspective, explaining to their friends and family what happened. I've heard it all before. We all have.

I don't know what happened. We had a great marriage and I was always a good wife. Cooked, cleaned, took care of the house and kids, attended to everyone's needs. I thought he loved me. He said he loved me. Then, one day, he just announced that he was leaving. Leaving me. Leaving our kids. Abandoning the family! Don't worry, I made sure to get the house, the better car, and plenty of financial support while he can barely afford his one-bedroom apartment and is only allowed to "visit" his children during the hours set by the court. Until I can turn them against him that is. I see where he has a GF and I've seen her photos on FB. What a tramp. I'll bet he was cheating on me with her while we were married. That has to be the reason he left, to spend time with his slut. I'm such a good person and never did anything wrong through our whole marriage. How did this happen to me?

Sound familiar? Because it sounds very familiar to me. I've seen it so many times and I've lived various parts of it. Many of us have. So that is your perfect solution for him? Either suck it up or get out? Is it just as fair to suggest that she either sucks it up or get the hell out? It sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I see my wife as a sexual object, just there is no sexual response. So its not that I don't think she's hot, I tell her that all the time, she just isn't interested in me sexually anymore. I didn't settle I don't think, we had a good relationship, including sexual, when we were dating and even at the beginning of our marriage. Once we were married for a while that is when it slowed down and ended.

This is something that men need to read and understand, but they won't. They all think, that will never happen to me. She is the one and once we get married, the sex will only get better.

This is why I swear, I'll never get married again. Currently, I have a fantastic sex life with one woman and we are monogamous, but I don't even want to move in together. If it became an issue for her, I'd probably be willing to let her go before I'd make that commitment. Harsh, I know, but you live and learn. I'll never again but my sex life in the hands of a woman, or go years waiting for her to recover from whatever happened to turn off her desire.

For the low, or no libido spouse, lack of sex is no problem. It's rare that a spouse like this will ever see it as "their" problem. Her only problem is him giving her a problem about sex, or times she has to suffer through it. It's all his problem but he is powerless to solve it without her help. And she just doesn't care. She wants nothing to do with it and won't even offer a reason why.

This is way too familiar. BTDT a few times. Never again. If you wonder why so many young men are not getting married these days, or waiting a lot longer than in the past, then seeking younger partners, it's because a lot of them have gotten the message and are paying attention.

I’m in the same boat, brother except I’m not looking for monogamy right now nor do I expect it. Never again will I get married. Listen to a woman’s actions, not their words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

She's not waiting for him to initiate. Sometimes you'll have a situation where all of the other elements of sexual desire are in place but the DW just needs the spark of seeing how much DH needs her to get her revved up. Strong initiations work in this situation. But that's not at all the kind of relationship that OP is describing. Strong initiations where DW is just flat not interested will only exacerbate the problem. She'll feel used and pressured. And, if she submits to the pressure and he goes ahead and has sex with her, she'll feel violated -- all of which will make her even less interested in sex in the future.

You don't know that. And neither does he...since he's too much of a coward to talk with her about it.

He has talked with her about it multiple times. Per OP: "Have talked about it on multiple times (sex/intimacy, not about not caring) and she does the usual break down and cry, I'm not a good wife response with no change at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well you're a scumbag. You talk about staying in your marriage like it's some Noble thing to do? The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. If you can't do that, be fair to her and them and get out. Probably everyone will do well in this scenario besides you.

Wow, that is so simple, I'm amazed he didn't think of it. Don't stop there. Tell us how the rest of this plays out. Tell us from her perspective, explaining to their friends and family what happened. I've heard it all before. We all have.

I don't know what happened. We had a great marriage and I was always a good wife. Cooked, cleaned, took care of the house and kids, attended to everyone's needs. I thought he loved me. He said he loved me. Then, one day, he just announced that he was leaving. Leaving me. Leaving our kids. Abandoning the family! Don't worry, I made sure to get the house, the better car, and plenty of financial support while he can barely afford his one-bedroom apartment and is only allowed to "visit" his children during the hours set by the court. Until I can turn them against him that is. I see where he has a GF and I've seen her photos on FB. What a tramp. I'll bet he was cheating on me with her while we were married. That has to be the reason he left, to spend time with his slut. I'm such a good person and never did anything wrong through our whole marriage. How did this happen to me?

Sound familiar? Because it sounds very familiar to me. I've seen it so many times and I've lived various parts of it. Many of us have. So that is your perfect solution for him? Either suck it up or get out? Is it just as fair to suggest that she either sucks it up or get the hell out? It sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Honest to God no idea what you're talking about.... But yeah I think a divorce is better for everyone involved. I take back saying everyone will do better than op. I think he will do well too. I'm divorced. We're all thriving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I see my wife as a sexual object, just there is no sexual response. So its not that I don't think she's hot, I tell her that all the time, she just isn't interested in me sexually anymore. I didn't settle I don't think, we had a good relationship, including sexual, when we were dating and even at the beginning of our marriage. Once we were married for a while that is when it slowed down and ended.

This is something that men need to read and understand, but they won't. They all think, that will never happen to me. She is the one and once we get married, the sex will only get better.

This is why I swear, I'll never get married again. Currently, I have a fantastic sex life with one woman and we are monogamous, but I don't even want to move in together. If it became an issue for her, I'd probably be willing to let her go before I'd make that commitment. Harsh, I know, but you live and learn. I'll never again but my sex life in the hands of a woman, or go years waiting for her to recover from whatever happened to turn off her desire.

For the low, or no libido spouse, lack of sex is no problem. It's rare that a spouse like this will ever see it as "their" problem. Her only problem is him giving her a problem about sex, or times she has to suffer through it. It's all his problem but he is powerless to solve it without her help. And she just doesn't care. She wants nothing to do with it and won't even offer a reason why.

This is way too familiar. BTDT a few times. Never again. If you wonder why so many young men are not getting married these days, or waiting a lot longer than in the past, then seeking younger partners, it's because a lot of them have gotten the message and are paying attention.

Amen, brother. I'm considering leaving for this very issue. Everything you said here rings true for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I see my wife as a sexual object, just there is no sexual response. So its not that I don't think she's hot, I tell her that all the time, she just isn't interested in me sexually anymore. I didn't settle I don't think, we had a good relationship, including sexual, when we were dating and even at the beginning of our marriage. Once we were married for a while that is when it slowed down and ended.

This is something that men need to read and understand, but they won't. They all think, that will never happen to me. She is the one and once we get married, the sex will only get better.

This is why I swear, I'll never get married again. Currently, I have a fantastic sex life with one woman and we are monogamous, but I don't even want to move in together. If it became an issue for her, I'd probably be willing to let her go before I'd make that commitment. Harsh, I know, but you live and learn. I'll never again but my sex life in the hands of a woman, or go years waiting for her to recover from whatever happened to turn off her desire.

For the low, or no libido spouse, lack of sex is no problem. It's rare that a spouse like this will ever see it as "their" problem. Her only problem is him giving her a problem about sex, or times she has to suffer through it. It's all his problem but he is powerless to solve it without her help. And she just doesn't care. She wants nothing to do with it and won't even offer a reason why.

This is way too familiar. BTDT a few times. Never again. If you wonder why so many young men are not getting married these days, or waiting a lot longer than in the past, then seeking younger partners, it's because a lot of them have gotten the message and are paying attention.

I’m in the same boat, brother except I’m not looking for monogamy right now nor do I expect it. Never again will I get married. Listen to a woman’s actions, not their words.

So much bitterness. People stay together despite an okay sex and then get surprised that an okay sex becomes a meh sex or no sex. No mystery there, settling rarely leads to satisfaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is way too familiar. BTDT a few times. Never again. If you wonder why so many young men are not getting married these days, or waiting a lot longer than in the past, then seeking younger partners, it's because a lot of them have gotten the message and are paying attention.

I’m in the same boat, brother except I’m not looking for monogamy right now nor do I expect it. Never again will I get married. Listen to a woman’s actions, not their words.

Yes, as I told a recent one. Your words don't match your actions and my trust in you is borken. From now on, I'll believe what I see and feel over anything you tell me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I see my wife as a sexual object, just there is no sexual response. So its not that I don't think she's hot, I tell her that all the time, she just isn't interested in me sexually anymore. I didn't settle I don't think, we had a good relationship, including sexual, when we were dating and even at the beginning of our marriage. Once we were married for a while that is when it slowed down and ended.

This is something that men need to read and understand, but they won't. They all think, that will never happen to me. She is the one and once we get married, the sex will only get better.

This is why I swear, I'll never get married again. Currently, I have a fantastic sex life with one woman and we are monogamous, but I don't even want to move in together. If it became an issue for her, I'd probably be willing to let her go before I'd make that commitment. Harsh, I know, but you live and learn. I'll never again but my sex life in the hands of a woman, or go years waiting for her to recover from whatever happened to turn off her desire.

For the low, or no libido spouse, lack of sex is no problem. It's rare that a spouse like this will ever see it as "their" problem. Her only problem is him giving her a problem about sex, or times she has to suffer through it. It's all his problem but he is powerless to solve it without her help. And she just doesn't care. She wants nothing to do with it and won't even offer a reason why.

This is way too familiar. BTDT a few times. Never again. If you wonder why so many young men are not getting married these days, or waiting a lot longer than in the past, then seeking younger partners, it's because a lot of them have gotten the message and are paying attention.

I’m in the same boat, brother except I’m not looking for monogamy right now nor do I expect it. Never again will I get married. Listen to a woman’s actions, not their words.

So much bitterness. People stay together despite an okay sex and then get surprised that an okay sex becomes a meh sex or no sex. No mystery there, settling rarely leads to satisfaction.

I think this is a bit simplistic. Okay sex is okay and many people are fine with that. I had numerous rockstar sex sessions with women that I would not want to be married to. Sex amazing-the rest of them not so much. So when I found someone that was "okay" sex but really good wife material that I really loved, I was fine with okay sex + all the other benefits. I don' think that if you are having okay sex with someone you should expect that it will become meh and then no sex. I would take okay sex for the rest of my life with a good wife over amazing sex with someone that would be a bad wife. I don't think there is necessarily a cause effect of okay sex>no sex at all, at least there shouldn't be.

[Anonymous]

You lost me at 3 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think this is a bit simplistic. Okay sex is okay and many people are fine with that. I had numerous rockstar sex sessions with women that I would not want to be married to. Sex amazing-the rest of them not so much. So when I found someone that was "okay" sex but really good wife material that I really loved, I was fine with okay sex + all the other benefits. I don' think that if you are having okay sex with someone you should expect that it will become meh and then no sex. I would take okay sex for the rest of my life with a good wife over amazing sex with someone that would be a bad wife. I don't think there is necessarily a cause effect of okay sex>no sex at all, at least there shouldn't be.

You make a lot of sense and I respect your choices. I've also had OK sex with a woman I married. No sex, anger, bitterness and other issues led to divorce and me having full custody of my children. Since that time, I've chosen the amazing sex with no marriage. I'm with a woman who is a great lover. I may have married her in the past so I'm not saying she isn't marriage materiel. Just that, marriage does nothing for me and no woman is going to coerce me into marriage for fear of losing her and I've been clear on that from the beginning. She can have me as long as she wants and the relationship is good for us both. Should we decide to part, it will not be through divorce. I never want to get divorced again and not getting married is the way to make sure that never happens. Try cutting a man off from sex when you aren't married and it's an entirely different story. My sex life will not be held hostage and it works the same for her. Should anything happen to me where I lost interest or was not able to perform or satisfy her, I don't expect her to stick around much longer.