I've been unknowingly dating a transgender man

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And btw I'm not going to out him because i don't think he meant to hurt me. The problem is really considers himself a woman, so he doesn't feel the need to say anything because he's a woman. That's messed up if the other party doesn't known that. Is this going to be the new normal now??!

OP, I haven't read through the pages and pages on this so apologies if this question has already been asked and answered.

But. Do you honestly mean to tell us that you had no idea in 5 dates? Very, very few of these people can actually pull off looking like a person of the other gender, despite what they think. You really had no idea?

[Anonymous]

For starters, it's "trans woman" not "a man." Feminine pronouns. That's not "the PC police" - it's calling a person what she wants to be called. If you're not an asshole, you'll respect that, particularly if you're interested in keeping your moral high ground.

Second, you engaged in consensual romantic activity with this person. Whether you would've done so knowing her biological sex is fairly irrelevant to whether it was consensual, in exactly the same way that the PP referencing the married person lying issue. Your date concealed important information from you, it's true. You are entirely justified in being upset about that. But what you're talking about is regretting an experience, not being forced.

Third, I have an issue with the idea that the trans person is obligated to disclose their gender identity on date one. I can generally agree that prior to sexual activity, disclosure would be ethical. But also I think that the trans person is allowed to get to know a date and decide whether they trust the date or not. It sounds like this woman handled the situation poorly, and I'm sorry for the OP that he is having to deal with this.

Fourth, there are no legal consequences for lying to your date. Outing this person would make you an asshole. If you want to make your anger known, you could tell her that the way and timing that she chose to disclose this important thing made you feel used and manipulated and that for her own safety, she should consider being more forthcoming in the future. But really, what you should do is break it off and move on and that's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol at the people who think this is a disappointing date or equivalent of a guy not telling a woman he is married. Thanks for the glimpse into the thought processes of the female mind

There's all kinds of reasons a person might feel "violated" - they by and large do not entitle a person to sue the other party. That's just not how life is.

OP is venting. He hasnt called a lawyer. Jesus christ

The OP even calmed down and felt compassion and concern for his date. He was worried she might do this again to someone who might actually assault her. Read the thread before jumping to judgement people.

Yes. The OP seems to have his head and heart in the right place, despite feeling very disrespectfully "fooled" or kept in the dark about a Pretty Big Thing in a relationship. I can certainly imagine that someone who feels and "is" a woman, would want to pursue relationships this way. On the other hand, of course someone she wants to relate to on an intimate level should be in on the situation so both parties come to it fully informed and voluntarily. OP, you get it, and I'm proud of you for that despite feeling incredibly angry (and maybe also ashamed, foolish? reviving memories of past abuse?)--I completely sympathize with your point of view. I would also feel duped and pissed as hell. At first.

You're a good person. Coast on that knowledge for a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so angry I don't even know what to do. This "woman" I have been seeing for thee past 3 months is actually a man. The only reason I found out is when we were about to get to "2nd base" this evening and he (she?) told me right before we got started (most likely because he had a dick). I blew up on him and almost slugged him, but I have too much to lose professionally for legal issues. He doesnt understand why I am so upset and said that he's a woman just like every other woman and I should respect that. He really does look like a woman, doesn't have a pronounced atoms apple, sounds feminine, and he has real looking breasts. I don't know if he's had surgery. I understand his point and I'm not against transgenders but I certainly don't want to be with one. I never thought I'd feel this way but actually I feel violated. It's really a total mind fuck right now. Does anyone know I have have any legal options- there are lots of lawyers on here right? What the hell do people do in this situation? I feel like posting his picture and putting it in all the bars so no one goes through this. I just needed to vent. I do not feel ready to talk to my friends about this yet.

I think you meant to say you've been dating a transgender woman. The lingo is tricky but you'll get reamed to hell and back if you use it incorrectly.

Also I think that is something that needs to be told up front on a first date. She was in the wrong here, not you. I'm so sorry that you feel violated. Vent away, that was really shitty and irresponsible of her to do.

Frack that shit. It was a man who wants to be a woman. I'm sorry OP, I would have biitch slapped that person, and claimed self defense. You were mind fucked by the way. And PP, why is the PC pronoun usage more important than the person who was actually violated through fraudulent representation?

I pointed out the correct PC lingo to the OP so that he wouldn't get even more shit than he was already getting from the assholes who think its fine for a man to be violated and lied to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For starters, it's "trans woman" not "a man." Feminine pronouns. That's not "the PC police" - it's calling a person what she wants to be called. If you're not an asshole, you'll respect that, particularly if you're interested in keeping your moral high ground.

Second, you engaged in consensual romantic activity with this person. Whether you would've done so knowing her biological sex is fairly irrelevant to whether it was consensual, in exactly the same way that the PP referencing the married person lying issue. Your date concealed important information from you, it's true. You are entirely justified in being upset about that. But what you're talking about is regretting an experience, not being forced.

Third, I have an issue with the idea that the trans person is obligated to disclose their gender identity on date one. I can generally agree that prior to sexual activity, disclosure would be ethical. But also I think that the trans person is allowed to get to know a date and decide whether they trust the date or not. It sounds like this woman handled the situation poorly, and I'm sorry for the OP that he is having to deal with this.

Fourth, there are no legal consequences for lying to your date. Outing this person would make you an asshole. If you want to make your anger known, you could tell her that the way and timing that she chose to disclose this important thing made you feel used and manipulated and that for her own safety, she should consider being more forthcoming in the future. But really, what you should do is break it off and move on and that's it.

Excuse me, but what does the issue of calling a man a woman have to do with "morality?" Do you even know what that word means?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For starters, it's "trans woman" not "a man." Feminine pronouns. That's not "the PC police" - it's calling a person what she wants to be called. If you're not an asshole, you'll respect that, particularly if you're interested in keeping your moral high ground.

Second, you engaged in consensual romantic activity with this person. Whether you would've done so knowing her biological sex is fairly irrelevant to whether it was consensual, in exactly the same way that the PP referencing the married person lying issue. Your date concealed important information from you, it's true. You are entirely justified in being upset about that. But what you're talking about is regretting an experience, not being forced.

Third, I have an issue with the idea that the trans person is obligated to disclose their gender identity on date one. I can generally agree that prior to sexual activity, disclosure would be ethical. But also I think that the trans person is allowed to get to know a date and decide whether they trust the date or not. It sounds like this woman handled the situation poorly, and I'm sorry for the OP that he is having to deal with this.

Fourth, there are no legal consequences for lying to your date. Outing this person would make you an asshole. If you want to make your anger known, you could tell her that the way and timing that she chose to disclose this important thing made you feel used and manipulated and that for her own safety, she should consider being more forthcoming in the future. But really, what you should do is break it off and move on and that's it.

If I want to be called Princess Petunia and be addressed as "your highness" and use the pronoun "royal we" should that be respected? Should I have the right to call someone an anti-trans bigoted asshole if the slip up or refuse?

I'm all for calling a person what they want but lets not be bullies - this is uncharted territory that is changing on the daily and some people are just not going to be on the same page yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For starters, it's "trans woman" not "a man." Feminine pronouns. That's not "the PC police" - it's calling a person what she wants to be called. If you're not an asshole, you'll respect that, particularly if you're interested in keeping your moral high ground.

Second, you engaged in consensual romantic activity with this person. Whether you would've done so knowing her biological sex is fairly irrelevant to whether it was consensual, in exactly the same way that the PP referencing the married person lying issue. Your date concealed important information from you, it's true. You are entirely justified in being upset about that. But what you're talking about is regretting an experience, not being forced.

Third, I have an issue with the idea that the trans person is obligated to disclose their gender identity on date one. I can generally agree that prior to sexual activity, disclosure would be ethical. But also I think that the trans person is allowed to get to know a date and decide whether they trust the date or not. It sounds like this woman handled the situation poorly, and I'm sorry for the OP that he is having to deal with this.

Fourth, there are no legal consequences for lying to your date. Outing this person would make you an asshole. If you want to make your anger known, you could tell her that the way and timing that she chose to disclose this important thing made you feel used and manipulated and that for her own safety, she should consider being more forthcoming in the future. But really, what you should do is break it off and move on and that's it.

You can google rape by fraud/deception cases - here is the overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

While this wasn't rape it was definitely a violation by deception and people should respect the OP enough to have some empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For starters, it's "trans woman" not "a man." Feminine pronouns. That's not "the PC police" - it's calling a person what she wants to be called. If you're not an asshole, you'll respect that, particularly if you're interested in keeping your moral high ground.

Second, you engaged in consensual romantic activity with this person. Whether you would've done so knowing her biological sex is fairly irrelevant to whether it was consensual, in exactly the same way that the PP referencing the married person lying issue. Your date concealed important information from you, it's true. You are entirely justified in being upset about that. But what you're talking about is regretting an experience, not being forced.

Third, I have an issue with the idea that the trans person is obligated to disclose their gender identity on date one. I can generally agree that prior to sexual activity, disclosure would be ethical. But also I think that the trans person is allowed to get to know a date and decide whether they trust the date or not. It sounds like this woman handled the situation poorly, and I'm sorry for the OP that he is having to deal with this.

Fourth, there are no legal consequences for lying to your date. Outing this person would make you an asshole. If you want to make your anger known, you could tell her that the way and timing that she chose to disclose this important thing made you feel used and manipulated and that for her own safety, she should consider being more forthcoming in the future. But really, what you should do is break it off and move on and that's it.

If I want to be called Princess Petunia and be addressed as "your highness" and use the pronoun "royal we" should that be respected? Should I have the right to call someone an anti-trans bigoted asshole if the slip up or refuse?

I'm all for calling a person what they want but lets not be bullies - this is uncharted territory that is changing on the daily and some people are just not going to be on the same page yet.

+1. And some people are not going on this page, ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For starters, it's "trans woman" not "a man." Feminine pronouns. That's not "the PC police" - it's calling a person what she wants to be called. If you're not an asshole, you'll respect that, particularly if you're interested in keeping your moral high ground.

Second, you engaged in consensual romantic activity with this person. Whether you would've done so knowing her biological sex is fairly irrelevant to whether it was consensual, in exactly the same way that the PP referencing the married person lying issue. Your date concealed important information from you, it's true. You are entirely justified in being upset about that. But what you're talking about is regretting an experience, not being forced.

Third, I have an issue with the idea that the trans person is obligated to disclose their gender identity on date one. I can generally agree that prior to sexual activity, disclosure would be ethical. But also I think that the trans person is allowed to get to know a date and decide whether they trust the date or not. It sounds like this woman handled the situation poorly, and I'm sorry for the OP that he is having to deal with this.

Fourth, there are no legal consequences for lying to your date. Outing this person would make you an asshole. If you want to make your anger known, you could tell her that the way and timing that she chose to disclose this important thing made you feel used and manipulated and that for her own safety, she should consider being more forthcoming in the future. But really, what you should do is break it off and move on and that's it.

OP here. In a better place today.

I strongly disagree with your second point. It was consensual based on the knowledge that I thought she was a person of the opposite sex.

On your third point. I actually agree. I don't think she has to walk around with a sign that says she used to be a man. That would defeat the whole purpose.

Four- I'm past the legal option point, but I do realize this offense is not a crime per se, even though it kind of feels like it should be. I did some research and it appears the UK has laws around "stealth trans people" but it's specific to sex. We did not get that far as she did disclose it. So really, that's all there is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And btw I'm not going to out him because i don't think he meant to hurt me. The problem is really considers himself a woman, so he doesn't feel the need to say anything because he's a woman. That's messed up if the other party doesn't known that. Is this going to be the new normal now??!

OP, I haven't read through the pages and pages on this so apologies if this question has already been asked and answered.

But. Do you honestly mean to tell us that you had no idea in 5 dates? Very, very few of these people can actually pull off looking like a person of the other gender, despite what they think. You really had no idea?

No I didn't. With the exception of last night, our dates were mostly short (think lunch). We have very busy schedules and I travel a lot. Most of our time getting to know each other has been on the phone and through email.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two things:

1) I've known a lot of trans women. Maybe 20+ due to my work. None of them would ever have entered into a relationship without disclosing this information much much sooner, particularly if they were pre-operative. For that reason, I think there's an at least 50% chance that this is a troll thread - trans women live in actual fear of their lives and do not typically go around courting violence by entering into relationships with unknowing cisgendered men.

2) Assuming that OP encountered a trans woman with REALLY bad survival instincts and the story is true, then OP just needs to move on. Yes, it was rude of the woman not to disclose her sex assigned at birth. OP has a total right to not be attracted to someone with a penis. He's not transphobic or a jerk for not wanting to date her anymore, but he is a jerk for wanting to spread her information around and put her at risk of violence.

1) If by troll you mean that I'm just a hater, no I don't hate trans people. And your statement about no trans women doing this does not appear to be true. From the research I have done this does happen. It appears in many cases it ends in violence. I must admit though that I am quite ignorant on transgender matters and have been trying to educate myself more. She did share with me that she was bullied quite badly as a kid so I don't think she's a stranger to violence. If your statement about having bad instincts is true then I would say she falls into that category and probably needs help. Especially since I'm not the first. At some point in the next day or so when I decide to answer her calls, I will broach this subject with her. While I find it hard to imagine she is not plugged the "dos and donts" of the trans world, her actions make me concerned that maybe she's not getting good advice.

[Anonymous]

And to the person who suggested I "out" her, no way. What she did really really pissed me off, and violated me, but I don't believe her intent was to harm. I know that sounds crazy. She's actually a very good person and has dedicated her professional life to ending global sex trafficking.

[Anonymous]

OP I'm a physician; I treated a young man last year in the emergency dept. He had gone out the night before, drinking with friends, and woke up across town in an apt he didn't recognize. He had no memory of going there. Didn't know the neighborhood. His wallet was with him, money still there. His pants were unbuttoned, not pulled down but around his hips.

His exam didn't indicate assault, but that doesn't mean much. He was deeply upset by the encounter. Bewildered, frightened, and tearful. He was a big guy; football player, very typical masculine appearing college kid.

Your feelings of anger and helplessness re: what happened to you are valid. This is an uncommon position in which a man finds himself, and as some previous comments indicate, you're not really given much space to feel what my patient felt. You may feel unsettled for a long period of time, esp as a survivor of sexual abuse as a child. If you feel comfortable, you might want to reach out to a therapist for a few sessions. Not saying you won't move on from this. I think you'll be fine. But just a reminder that it's OK to have residual feelings about the event, which doesn't make you gay, a rageaholic, or unhinged.

The woman you dated has her own issues to deal with; as you probably understand, the world isn't kind to the transgender community. She may be struggling through the clumsy world of dating and behave in regrettable ways at times, as some of us have also done. Something that can be effective is writing a letter. I know that may seem passive, but it can be very powerful to say exactly what you need to say, and have someone read your words uninterrupted. You can offer how she might reveal the information better in the future, how it made you feel. Reiterate your right to make informed decisions about physical intimacy (understanding that it's also tricky for her to be vulnerable about her sexuality with someone she hasn't gotten to know).

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I'm a physician; I treated a young man last year in the emergency dept. He had gone out the night before, drinking with friends, and woke up across town in an apt he didn't recognize. He had no memory of going there. Didn't know the neighborhood. His wallet was with him, money still there. His pants were unbuttoned, not pulled down but around his hips.

His exam didn't indicate assault, but that doesn't mean much. He was deeply upset by the encounter. Bewildered, frightened, and tearful. He was a big guy; football player, very typical masculine appearing college kid.

Your feelings of anger and helplessness re: what happened to you are valid. This is an uncommon position in which a man finds himself, and as some previous comments indicate, you're not really given much space to feel what my patient felt. You may feel unsettled for a long period of time, esp as a survivor of sexual abuse as a child. If you feel comfortable, you might want to reach out to a therapist for a few sessions. Not saying you won't move on from this. I think you'll be fine. But just a reminder that it's OK to have residual feelings about the event, which doesn't make you gay, a rageaholic, or unhinged.

The woman you dated has her own issues to deal with; as you probably understand, the world isn't kind to the transgender community. She may be struggling through the clumsy world of dating and behave in regrettable ways at times, as some of us have also done. Something that can be effective is writing a letter. I know that may seem passive, but it can be very powerful to say exactly what you need to say, and have someone read your words uninterrupted. You can offer how she might reveal the information better in the future, how it made you feel. Reiterate your right to make informed decisions about physical intimacy (understanding that it's also tricky for her to be vulnerable about her sexuality with someone she hasn't gotten to know).

Good luck.

You are a really good person, what wonderful advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I'm a physician; I treated a young man last year in the emergency dept. He had gone out the night before, drinking with friends, and woke up across town in an apt he didn't recognize. He had no memory of going there. Didn't know the neighborhood. His wallet was with him, money still there. His pants were unbuttoned, not pulled down but around his hips.

His exam didn't indicate assault, but that doesn't mean much. He was deeply upset by the encounter. Bewildered, frightened, and tearful. He was a big guy; football player, very typical masculine appearing college kid.

Your feelings of anger and helplessness re: what happened to you are valid. This is an uncommon position in which a man finds himself, and as some previous comments indicate, you're not really given much space to feel what my patient felt. You may feel unsettled for a long period of time, esp as a survivor of sexual abuse as a child. If you feel comfortable, you might want to reach out to a therapist for a few sessions. Not saying you won't move on from this. I think you'll be fine. But just a reminder that it's OK to have residual feelings about the event, which doesn't make you gay, a rageaholic, or unhinged.

The woman you dated has her own issues to deal with; as you probably understand, the world isn't kind to the transgender community. She may be struggling through the clumsy world of dating and behave in regrettable ways at times, as some of us have also done. Something that can be effective is writing a letter. I know that may seem passive, but it can be very powerful to say exactly what you need to say, and have someone read your words uninterrupted. You can offer how she might reveal the information better in the future, how it made you feel. Reiterate your right to make informed decisions about physical intimacy (understanding that it's also tricky for her to be vulnerable about her sexuality with someone she hasn't gotten to know).

Good luck.

OP here. Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I see a therapist monthly (I used to do it due to depression, but now I do it just to as more of a mental maintenance check), so your comments to discuss this with him will definitely be heeded.