Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so what if strangers think your kid is being rude? Maybe it's embarrassing for you but it doesn't matter in the long run.

It does matter to OP's kid because she doesn't understand boundaries and differences in positions of authority and that is a problem for her now and it's only going to get worse as she gets older. OP's kid needs to understand that she is not in the same position as an adult at a museum. There is also going to spillover. If she is doing this at a museum, she is doing this with her friends and teachers and she will do it with service providers and then professors, colleagues, and her managers.

NT kids pick up on social cues about boundaries and authority figures better than ASD or ADHD kids but still need boundaries reinforced, including that you do not speak to an adult who is not your parent like your parent. It does not matter how smart OP's daughter is, she will have a very difficult time in the working world if she thinks that she knows better than everyone else and her actions reflect that. Even if it's clear she has ASD and people are understanding of her quirks, she will irritate her colleagues if she doesn't understand boundaries. I've seen it happen and I really wish the person who I saw it happen with had more help and coaching prior to getting into the working world because for HR reasons, it's very tricky for a manager or colleague to sit an employee down and explain that their actions are unwelcome when those actions are tied to a disability. OP needs to coach her daughter when it's appropriate and important to advocate for herself or someone else and what it is important and appropriate to stand back and let something go.

This is a new poster and I do agree with this. However, I don't think those PP's who are saying "teach her differently" have kids that do this, as it is MUCH harder than that.

My kid is 14 and this is an issue. She "does not understand boundaries and the differences in positions of authority" is a perfect way to describe this. I don't recall her doing this at 6, other than being a little rude to grandma (boy, did we get hell for that). She didn't correct people in museums or walk up to random strangers and be "rude." But boy has it gotten worse, and it is not easy to teach or coach an Autistic brain on this subject, it just isn't. Our kid has been in therapy galore, social skills groups, OT, everything you can think of. She doesn't say please and thank you even though we remind her constantly (she does sometimes, but "forgets" other times). Her emails and interactions with teachers are astoundingly rude sounding. Our other child charms the pants off of teachers and adults most of the time (not to compare, they are two very different kids), just to point out that I don't think it is primarily our parenting.

If anyone has suggestions about how to improve this, I'm all ears - we have tried and coach every single situation we learn about. But not only does it change, we get lectured by our DD. "Why do adults deserve more respect just because they are older" (when that is not what we said), "why should I not call someone out for being [homophobic, racist, sexist, ableist] etc." (even when we explain that it is not what you say, it is how you say it). I becomes an absolutely exhausting intellectual debate and I always lose. She just doesn't get how this does and is going to continue to affect her relationships and how others view her. I am certainly afraid of how she will get along as she gets older, in school, in college, in the working world. Particularly with people she doesn't like or who are inconsequential to HER, doesn't matter if they have a lot of power over her.

Just saying, OP, it's not becuase you're not trying or modeling or coaching or whatever. It's just hard.

Your second paragraph reminds me of what all the schools are teaching in social studies, health class, literature, and history class m. Be an activist and “call out” people. aSD students may take this literally and to an extreme. Our entire school district now tells students they are on the same respect level as teachers and has BLm and Trans and LGbTQIA2+ flags in the class room and over as speakers. The louder you are with the mantra, said teacher bumps your grades up.

Oh God. No, no and no. This is PP and yes, my DD may take advocacy literally due to ASD, but she’s a transgender minority kid and discriminated against daily. I don’t know where these teachers are that teach that they are on the same level as the kids or the schools are that have BLM and LGBTQ+ flags everywhere, but maybe we should move her there and that would solve it! Ha!

Take Dan Shapiros class on how ASD’s confusion at socialization can result in trying out gentler changes or trans identity to try to feel better. Underlying issues need to also be treated before any serious transitioning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.

FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.

You never cared anyway. What a pointless post.

+1

Guess not. OPs attitude is to do nothing, since the world is not built for those with underdeveloped cortexes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Where do you work? I need to sign someone up for an effective class. Thx.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

Hopefully the other parent is doing the same as well, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

This is OP. I appreciate this perspective. This seems most helpful to me. I will try to just focus on my daughter in these instances and not worry about what the stranger is thinking. I need to stay present with her to help me teach the “lesson” about what she should do different, and I also need to be ready to head off a meltdown. I can’t do all that as effectively if I’m concerned about a stranger’s reaction to her correcting them about which space mission that rocket went on.

And preventing accidents or hurting oneself or another child.
An autistic kid was not following the water slide rules and waiting for child ahead to land in the pool before going. He went 2 seconds after my 6 yo daughter and kicked her in the back badly. All the mom said later was, “He’s Autistic” and walked off from my crying, hurt daughter. She then got a mouthful from many adult witnesses to better monitor her 10 yo child if he can’t be safe or has poor judgment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

This is OP. I appreciate this perspective. This seems most helpful to me. I will try to just focus on my daughter in these instances and not worry about what the stranger is thinking. I need to stay present with her to help me teach the “lesson” about what she should do different, and I also need to be ready to head off a meltdown. I can’t do all that as effectively if I’m concerned about a stranger’s reaction to her correcting them about which space mission that rocket went on.

Yes but the most important part of this lesson is how her behavior impacts others. An apology is part of that. Ideally she will learn to apologize herself.

DP. Please just stop. OP’s goal is to teacher her daughter functional and safe behaviors, not to apologize right now. And it’s really important not to shame the child in the process. The opinion of strangers offended by the comments of a 6 yr old is about #999 on OP’s list.

You just don't seem to get it. People aren't really bothered by the 6 yr old, but they will be wondering where her parents are and why they aren't keeping an eye on her. What may be mildly cute at this age will get stale real fast in a short few years. The parents may thing their "Little Professor" is adorable but not many other people will not. When you finally do come wrangle the kid away from the unsuspecting strangers a quick sorry will go a long way.

YOU don’t get it. Yes, my job is to teach my child not to interrupt/speak to strangers. But apologizing to strangers for my child is not my job. It is actually counterproductive for me to dwell on my own feelings of embarrassment instead of focusing on how I want to teach my child in the moment. I KNOW the world at large will judge my kid (no matter how successful I am at teaching him some skills). So, apologizing for my kid is farrrr down my list of priorities.

At our house the precocious aspergers sibling snips and corrects the other two siblings so frequently they’ve all degraded to doing it to her all the time too.
It’s a terrible dynamic and telling the NT sibs to “take it” really normalizes being a punching bag. Am worried about everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

This is OP. I appreciate this perspective. This seems most helpful to me. I will try to just focus on my daughter in these instances and not worry about what the stranger is thinking. I need to stay present with her to help me teach the “lesson” about what she should do different, and I also need to be ready to head off a meltdown. I can’t do all that as effectively if I’m concerned about a stranger’s reaction to her correcting them about which space mission that rocket went on.

Yes but the most important part of this lesson is how her behavior impacts others. An apology is part of that. Ideally she will learn to apologize herself.

DP. Please just stop. OP’s goal is to teacher her daughter functional and safe behaviors, not to apologize right now. And it’s really important not to shame the child in the process. The opinion of strangers offended by the comments of a 6 yr old is about #999 on OP’s list.

Look I don't give a flip about the reaction of random strangers in a museum but as she grows up the OP's daughter needs to learn functional behaviors in order to interact appropriately in society. She will likely need explicit instruction with repeated practice in learning to follow social norms, and that includes apologizing to others when warranted. It's not about shaming the child at all.

It’s not a lesson about apologizing in this scenario- apologies here would teach shame and not much else. Forced apologies by kids (SN or NT) are almost always for the gratification of adults, not teaching behaviors. I think the people fixated on forcing an apology by the kid (or worse the mom apologizing) don’t know much about systematic behavior shaping. The goal here is for the child to learn not to interrupt, not to talk to strangers, and eventually, how to handle when you disagree with what someone is saying. Focusing on the apology is a huge distraction and makes it more into a punishment than an effective teaching moment.

Disagree.

Also disagree that you or the child are feeling any shame. None of your posts indicate any level of remorse, shame or apology.
Staging off Oppositional Defiant Disorder as an ASD mishap negative coping mechanism is really important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

This is OP. I appreciate this perspective. This seems most helpful to me. I will try to just focus on my daughter in these instances and not worry about what the stranger is thinking. I need to stay present with her to help me teach the “lesson” about what she should do different, and I also need to be ready to head off a meltdown. I can’t do all that as effectively if I’m concerned about a stranger’s reaction to her correcting them about which space mission that rocket went on.

Yes but the most important part of this lesson is how her behavior impacts others. An apology is part of that. Ideally she will learn to apologize herself.

DP. Please just stop. OP’s goal is to teacher her daughter functional and safe behaviors, not to apologize right now. And it’s really important not to shame the child in the process. The opinion of strangers offended by the comments of a 6 yr old is about #999 on OP’s list.

You just don't seem to get it. People aren't really bothered by the 6 yr old, but they will be wondering where her parents are and why they aren't keeping an eye on her. What may be mildly cute at this age will get stale real fast in a short few years. The parents may thing their "Little Professor" is adorable but not many other people will not. When you finally do come wrangle the kid away from the unsuspecting strangers a quick sorry will go a long way.

YOU don’t get it. Yes, my job is to teach my child not to interrupt/speak to strangers. But apologizing to strangers for my child is not my job. It is actually counterproductive for me to dwell on my own feelings of embarrassment instead of focusing on how I want to teach my child in the moment. I KNOW the world at large will judge my kid (no matter how successful I am at teaching him some skills). So, apologizing for my kid is farrrr down my list of priorities.

Are you someone who has trouble apologizing OP? Your behavior is modeling appropriate behavior for your child. This is all a lesson for your child. Your child sees you apologizing, and will hopefully over time learn to do it herself when appropriate. Apologizing when warranted is a life skills to function in society.

Her posts speak for themselves. “Ffs”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

This is OP. I appreciate this perspective. This seems most helpful to me. I will try to just focus on my daughter in these instances and not worry about what the stranger is thinking. I need to stay present with her to help me teach the “lesson” about what she should do different, and I also need to be ready to head off a meltdown. I can’t do all that as effectively if I’m concerned about a stranger’s reaction to her correcting them about which space mission that rocket went on.

And preventing accidents or hurting oneself or another child.
An autistic kid was not following the water slide rules and waiting for child ahead to land in the pool before going. He went 2 seconds after my 6 yo daughter and kicked her in the back badly. All the mom said later was, “He’s Autistic” and walked off from my crying, hurt daughter. She then got a mouthful from many adult witnesses to better monitor her 10 yo child if he can’t be safe or has poor judgment.

She was probably too busy. She doesn't have time to worry or care about anyone else's feelings. It's all about her daughter. Saying sorry or expecting her daughter in this case to apologize is not her JOB. It's not really clear what the job is, but no matter what, acknowledging other people exist is not going to happen. Or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not about spending a lot of time or energy on it. It's about a brief acknowledgement that something is happening that shouldn't. That's all.

This does, however, explicitly acknowledge (even though it takes a literal two seconds) that your kid is breaking a social norm. That can be hard to do. It's being vulnerable, it's a blue to the ego for some people, and it can feel like too much to ask when you are already stretched beyond what you can handle--but let's not pretend it takes too much time to do it. It just can make you feel bad, or even worse.

Well there’s the rub. It is *not my job* to explicitly acknowledge my child is breaking a social norm every time. It’s my job to teach my child. And in many scenarios an apology just is not going to be possible or the top of my list of concerns. The fact that you’re dwelling on how “oh, it’s so easy, just do it” indicates you actually have no clue what the task of dealing with behaviors in public and teaching desires behaviors entails.

It's not part of your job to your kid, that's true. It is part of your job as a community member of a civil society, but I also get that you may not be up for holding up your responsibility at that moment. Not snarky, just acknowledging that you are saying you can't.

And if you can't, or won't, then other people will have to carry on. They will.

Nope absolutely not my responsibility to society to apologize for my child! If you’re fixates on SN moms needing to do their duty to society by putting apologizing to strangers over other more urgent parenting needs, well then … seems like your priorities are all wrong. Generally I haven’t worried about apologizing for my kid’s behavior since I first learned that other people don’t care - what they want is your child to go away, or get some sense of justice. My kid’s behaviors actually are not my fault so I no longer apologize for them.

Fascinating. Take this post to the next therapy session.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

This is OP. I appreciate this perspective. This seems most helpful to me. I will try to just focus on my daughter in these instances and not worry about what the stranger is thinking. I need to stay present with her to help me teach the “lesson” about what she should do different, and I also need to be ready to head off a meltdown. I can’t do all that as effectively if I’m concerned about a stranger’s reaction to her correcting them about which space mission that rocket went on.

Yes but the most important part of this lesson is how her behavior impacts others. An apology is part of that. Ideally she will learn to apologize herself.

DP. Please just stop. OP’s goal is to teacher her daughter functional and safe behaviors, not to apologize right now. And it’s really important not to shame the child in the process. The opinion of strangers offended by the comments of a 6 yr old is about #999 on OP’s list.

Look I don't give a flip about the reaction of random strangers in a museum but as she grows up the OP's daughter needs to learn functional behaviors in order to interact appropriately in society. She will likely need explicit instruction with repeated practice in learning to follow social norms, and that includes apologizing to others when warranted. It's not about shaming the child at all.

It’s not a lesson about apologizing in this scenario- apologies here would teach shame and not much else. Forced apologies by kids (SN or NT) are almost always for the gratification of adults, not teaching behaviors. I think the people fixated on forcing an apology by the kid (or worse the mom apologizing) don’t know much about systematic behavior shaping. The goal here is for the child to learn not to interrupt, not to talk to strangers, and eventually, how to handle when you disagree with what someone is saying. Focusing on the apology is a huge distraction and makes it more into a punishment than an effective teaching moment.

Disagree.

Also disagree that you or the child are feeling any shame. None of your posts indicate any level of remorse, shame or apology.
Staging off Oppositional Defiant Disorder as an ASD mishap negative coping mechanism is really important.

I get the impression OP is actually very proud and smug her little professor knows so many facts about rockets and gets off on hearing her correct adult strangers who have the audacity to not appreciate being interrupted. She's definitely not going to reprimand or say a quick sorry when she's practically bursting with pride and just how darn cute the whole thing is. This was all just a humble brag not a seeking advice post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get your focus is elsewhere. I now also understand that if your child were to physically assault someone, or even just knock an elder over accidentally, you will not have even a split second to say "sorry" to them. Understood.

Maybe try understanding what I am trying to tell you about the work of dealing with autism and child behavioral interventions? Did you understand at all what I was trying to explain - that often parents are working with specific plans and advice from therapists that require a really specific type of focus in that moment.

no you don’t get it, and don’t want to. all you see is the kid “breaking a social norm” and you want to make damn well sure they are properly chastised.

Meanwhile my job as a mother is to do the things that teach my kid the behavior he needs to be successful and safe in the long term. So no, my focus is not anything other than that job in that moment.

You’re quite rigid and fixated and it reading the room here Pp. You absolutely can do both, and frankly Stranger Danger is a different lesson than butting in others conversations in order to attempt to one-up them. We know a kid that did this to teachers, just because, and is now on her third school by grade 5. And guess what, the mom stands by her side that everyone else is crazy and wrong. The dad stays out of it shaking his head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

This is OP. I appreciate this perspective. This seems most helpful to me. I will try to just focus on my daughter in these instances and not worry about what the stranger is thinking. I need to stay present with her to help me teach the “lesson” about what she should do different, and I also need to be ready to head off a meltdown. I can’t do all that as effectively if I’m concerned about a stranger’s reaction to her correcting them about which space mission that rocket went on.

Yes but the most important part of this lesson is how her behavior impacts others. An apology is part of that. Ideally she will learn to apologize herself.

DP. Please just stop. OP’s goal is to teacher her daughter functional and safe behaviors, not to apologize right now. And it’s really important not to shame the child in the process. The opinion of strangers offended by the comments of a 6 yr old is about #999 on OP’s list.

Look I don't give a flip about the reaction of random strangers in a museum but as she grows up the OP's daughter needs to learn functional behaviors in order to interact appropriately in society. She will likely need explicit instruction with repeated practice in learning to follow social norms, and that includes apologizing to others when warranted. It's not about shaming the child at all.

It’s not a lesson about apologizing in this scenario- apologies here would teach shame and not much else. Forced apologies by kids (SN or NT) are almost always for the gratification of adults, not teaching behaviors. I think the people fixated on forcing an apology by the kid (or worse the mom apologizing) don’t know much about systematic behavior shaping. The goal here is for the child to learn not to interrupt, not to talk to strangers, and eventually, how to handle when you disagree with what someone is saying. Focusing on the apology is a huge distraction and makes it more into a punishment than an effective teaching moment.

I think everyone is saying that, while OP is retrieving her interrupting DC, that OP can give a quick Sorry to the possibly-offended strangers. Not the child.

OP’s focus needs to be on the child and making sure the child gets reminded of the rule (that they have discussed beforehand) and that OP remains calm. If the child is oppositional OP has to be focused on delivering the command as clearly as possible. Possibly be ready to deliver a consequence like leaving. All of this takes precedence over even looking at the other person.

Some of you seem like you haven’t really had to deal with challenging public behaviors.

Well stated.

Well sock-puppeted.

Well not actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.

Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.

Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.

Is anyone arguing not doing this?

My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.

Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.

Oh lord. We have enough to do without worrying about the feelings of strangers. One of the first and hardest lessons I learned as a SN mom is not to waste my energy on apologizing for my kid. The people demanding this have nothing to do with helping my kid and the energy I spend apologizing or feeling embarrassed is a distraction from my actual responsibilities. Sometimes it is a direct interference with what I need to do in these situations, which is focus on staying calm and on my kid.

I work extremely hard and have a lot on my plate, and my job is to raise my kid as best I can in challenging circumstances. If that makes me “selfish,” I care not a bit.

This is OP. I appreciate this perspective. This seems most helpful to me. I will try to just focus on my daughter in these instances and not worry about what the stranger is thinking. I need to stay present with her to help me teach the “lesson” about what she should do different, and I also need to be ready to head off a meltdown. I can’t do all that as effectively if I’m concerned about a stranger’s reaction to her correcting them about which space mission that rocket went on.

Yes but the most important part of this lesson is how her behavior impacts others. An apology is part of that. Ideally she will learn to apologize herself.

DP. Please just stop. OP’s goal is to teacher her daughter functional and safe behaviors, not to apologize right now. And it’s really important not to shame the child in the process. The opinion of strangers offended by the comments of a 6 yr old is about #999 on OP’s list.

Look I don't give a flip about the reaction of random strangers in a museum but as she grows up the OP's daughter needs to learn functional behaviors in order to interact appropriately in society. She will likely need explicit instruction with repeated practice in learning to follow social norms, and that includes apologizing to others when warranted. It's not about shaming the child at all.

It’s not a lesson about apologizing in this scenario- apologies here would teach shame and not much else. Forced apologies by kids (SN or NT) are almost always for the gratification of adults, not teaching behaviors. I think the people fixated on forcing an apology by the kid (or worse the mom apologizing) don’t know much about systematic behavior shaping. The goal here is for the child to learn not to interrupt, not to talk to strangers, and eventually, how to handle when you disagree with what someone is saying. Focusing on the apology is a huge distraction and makes it more into a punishment than an effective teaching moment.

Disagree.

Also disagree that you or the child are feeling any shame. None of your posts indicate any level of remorse, shame or apology.
Staging off Oppositional Defiant Disorder as an ASD mishap negative coping mechanism is really important.

I get the impression OP is actually very proud and smug her little professor knows so many facts about rockets and gets off on hearing her correct adult strangers who have the audacity to not appreciate being interrupted. She's definitely not going to reprimand or say a quick sorry when she's practically bursting with pride and just how darn cute the whole thing is. This was all just a humble brag not a seeking advice post.

Well, that’s one way to raise one, to be a bully. Protect themselves at all costs to all relationships. We all know how that ends up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so what if strangers think your kid is being rude? Maybe it's embarrassing for you but it doesn't matter in the long run.

It does matter to OP's kid because she doesn't understand boundaries and differences in positions of authority and that is a problem for her now and it's only going to get worse as she gets older. OP's kid needs to understand that she is not in the same position as an adult at a museum. There is also going to spillover. If she is doing this at a museum, she is doing this with her friends and teachers and she will do it with service providers and then professors, colleagues, and her managers.

NT kids pick up on social cues about boundaries and authority figures better than ASD or ADHD kids but still need boundaries reinforced, including that you do not speak to an adult who is not your parent like your parent. It does not matter how smart OP's daughter is, she will have a very difficult time in the working world if she thinks that she knows better than everyone else and her actions reflect that. Even if it's clear she has ASD and people are understanding of her quirks, she will irritate her colleagues if she doesn't understand boundaries. I've seen it happen and I really wish the person who I saw it happen with had more help and coaching prior to getting into the working world because for HR reasons, it's very tricky for a manager or colleague to sit an employee down and explain that their actions are unwelcome when those actions are tied to a disability. OP needs to coach her daughter when it's appropriate and important to advocate for herself or someone else and what it is important and appropriate to stand back and let something go.

This is a new poster and I do agree with this. However, I don't think those PP's who are saying "teach her differently" have kids that do this, as it is MUCH harder than that.

My kid is 14 and this is an issue. She "does not understand boundaries and the differences in positions of authority" is a perfect way to describe this. I don't recall her doing this at 6, other than being a little rude to grandma (boy, did we get hell for that). She didn't correct people in museums or walk up to random strangers and be "rude." But boy has it gotten worse, and it is not easy to teach or coach an Autistic brain on this subject, it just isn't. Our kid has been in therapy galore, social skills groups, OT, everything you can think of. She doesn't say please and thank you even though we remind her constantly (she does sometimes, but "forgets" other times). Her emails and interactions with teachers are astoundingly rude sounding. Our other child charms the pants off of teachers and adults most of the time (not to compare, they are two very different kids), just to point out that I don't think it is primarily our parenting.

If anyone has suggestions about how to improve this, I'm all ears - we have tried and coach every single situation we learn about. But not only does it change, we get lectured by our DD. "Why do adults deserve more respect just because they are older" (when that is not what we said), "why should I not call someone out for being [homophobic, racist, sexist, ableist] etc." (even when we explain that it is not what you say, it is how you say it). I becomes an absolutely exhausting intellectual debate and I always lose. She just doesn't get how this does and is going to continue to affect her relationships and how others view her. I am certainly afraid of how she will get along as she gets older, in school, in college, in the working world. Particularly with people she doesn't like or who are inconsequential to HER, doesn't matter if they have a lot of power over her.

Just saying, OP, it's not becuase you're not trying or modeling or coaching or whatever. It's just hard.

Your second paragraph reminds me of what all the schools are teaching in social studies, health class, literature, and history class m. Be an activist and “call out” people. aSD students may take this literally and to an extreme. Our entire school district now tells students they are on the same respect level as teachers and has BLm and Trans and LGbTQIA2+ flags in the class room and over as speakers. The louder you are with the mantra, said teacher bumps your grades up.

Oh God. No, no and no. This is PP and yes, my DD may take advocacy literally due to ASD, but she’s a transgender minority kid and discriminated against daily. I don’t know where these teachers are that teach that they are on the same level as the kids or the schools are that have BLM and LGBTQ+ flags everywhere, but maybe we should move her there and that would solve it! Ha!

Take Dan Shapiros class on how ASD’s confusion at socialization can result in trying out gentler changes or trans identity to try to feel better. Underlying issues need to also be treated before any serious transitioning.

Oh wow. People on here feel the need to comment on everything! I have taken Shapiros class and seen the doctor who advised him on gender identity and Autism. The primary message definitely is *not* that Autistic people are confused at socialization that result in trying out gentler changes or trans identity to try to feel better.