Stay at home Dad: My kids not accepted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP

CAUTION - RANT ALERT !

Woah, what happened to this thread!! I'm asking for perspective when my kids tell me they're lonely, feeling left out as they get invited to few play dates, and I'm see little reciprocity from others to host.... then the conversation turns into a sex centered debate on morality and maturity. It pisses me off that this is where minds go because I'm and SAHD posting, that gender makes a difference in non-sexual situations. Not that I'm ignorant, I know to be a total gentleman and careful to notice anything coming at me too.

I'm definitely NOT, "jonesing for alone time with moms" as someone phrased it. It's heartening to see both side equally represented and the immature sex-obsessed sociapaths are in a minority. It's just more stereotypes, the creepy homewrecker SAHD who can't keep it in his pants, home alone-wives who can resist throwing themselves at the nearest guy, the melodrama of marriages being threatened by the wife having infrequent time with a male... good grief!! I have to assume, those who think like that are immature, have issues, aren't fully grown up or undeveloped people themselves.

Sadly it may be true, that perspective is part of what I have been seeing all these years. While I'm not going to be missing out on spending time with anyone who thinks like that... but I won't accept that is a reason for my kids to be sidelined.

My new goal is host as many play dates as it takes for my kids not to feel excluded.

WOHM with SAHH here and this made me smile. Welcome to sexism, OP. IME being a SAHD helps men understand it in a new way. For example, when the world is treating you a certain way, you don't know if you're being treated differently because of your gender or because you are you. The reason this thread spun off is it's not possible to know if sexism/bias against you being male is behind what you're experiencing. But I do hope it helps you to hear that the lack of reciprocity in playdate hosting does not HAVE to be gender-related.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

CAUTION - RANT ALERT !

Woah, what happened to this thread!! I'm asking for perspective when my kids tell me they're lonely, feeling left out as they get invited to few play dates, and I'm see little reciprocity from others to host.... then the conversation turns into a sex centered debate on morality and maturity. It pisses me off that this is where minds go because I'm and SAHD posting, that gender makes a difference in non-sexual situations. Not that I'm ignorant, I know to be a total gentleman and careful to notice anything coming at me too.

I'm definitely NOT, "jonesing for alone time with moms" as someone phrased it. It's heartening to see both side equally represented and the immature sex-obsessed sociapaths are in a minority. It's just more stereotypes, the creepy homewrecker SAHD who can't keep it in his pants, home alone-wives who can resist throwing themselves at the nearest guy, the melodrama of marriages being threatened by the wife having infrequent time with a male... good grief!! I have to assume, those who think like that are immature, have issues, aren't fully grown up or undeveloped people themselves.

Sadly it may be true, that perspective is part of what I have been seeing all these years. While I'm not going to be missing out on spending time with anyone who thinks like that... but I won't accept that is a reason for my kids to be sidelined.

My new goal is host as many play dates as it takes for my kids not to feel excluded.

OP, unfortunately, it doesn't matter what your intent it. It's the appearance of impropriety that most likely keeps people away. It's sad, but it's a fact of life. For some people, just the appearance of infidelity on the part of their spouse is enough to derail a career (think command position military officers).

Have you had any luck with group activates instead of one on one play dates?

OP

As toddlers, the DCs have done group activities, playgrounds, and while the kids had a blast I was always the lone dad and was shunned and ignored once there were two moms there. One time, a nanny that didn't recognize me (with sincere professional concern) asked me which kid was mine. Ouch! Now, with both DCs school age, it's the same treatment at parties pick-up/drop, or school events. At least there I see the husbands who certainly keep me at a distance too.

Socially, it's been torture for me. For the kids the advantage of having me, as an involved parent available, has been amazing and that makes it all worthwhile.

I'm sorry for that. I'm a working mom, so I rarely (ok, never) do playdates, but I'd totally talk to you at the playground or whatever while our kids play. I wouldn't come to your house, though, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah I see pp attempted to explain. She just doesn't have male friends.

I think you are very anxious to fit people into the boxes you've designed for them. I have a ton of male friends. And when we want to spend time together, we go have coffee. Or lunch. Or dinner. Out in public. Not in each other's houses when no one else is present. Why are you so bothered by people's preferences? I'm not telling YOU how to conduct yourself. I am simply explaining why I - a person wholly separate and different from you - would choose to meet up with SAHD and his kids at a playground or a park but not at his or my house when no one else is around.

Can you please just answer my original question that I asked in the post before the one you quoted, then? Like I said this is really foreign to me and I do not get it and I want to. What is the inappropriateness you feel around being IN A HOUSE with someone of the opposite gender? I gave three reasons that are about as far as I can imagine it: fear of rape, fear of temptation, or concern about appearances/misinterpretation by people who don't know the two of you. ???

I'd answer it for you but I think you are committed to "not getting it". But let me try. I feel that it is inappropriate for me, as a married woman, to solicit and impose on myself, without any actual need, the scenario of being in a private setting with a member of the opposite sex. My DH feels the same way - he wouldn't hang out with a woman in her house. Coffee shop, sure. House, no. That's our deal. You don't have to sign up for it.

Yes, believe you me, I am FULLY AWARE that I don't have to agree with you. Thanks for the permission though.

You're still not answering my question. You are just saying the word "inappropriate" again and again. My question is WHAT IS INAPPROPRIATE?
Are you concerned about being raped?
Are you concerned about having an affair?
Are you not concerned about either of those things, but are concerned that you might be judged by third parties?
Or is it something else I have not thought of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My new goal is host as many play dates as it takes for my kids not to feel excluded.

Look, realistically, what other option do you have except continuing to host the play dates? You can't make other people invite your kids to their homes, regardless of whether their reasons are right, wrong, indifferent. But you also can't ensure that your kids don't feel excluded. My kid feels excluded to some degree because he is shy - he gets invited to some play dates, but isn't invited to as many as we host, probably because he isn't the first one other kids think of. Dealing with others not reciprocating equally is, unfortunately, a part of life and growing up that kids must learn to find a way to manage.

So you think your child is not being included because people are uncomfortable with you. Besides hosting playdates, the way for people to be comfortable with you is for them to get to know you, so be around....volunteer at school, be a room parent, volunteer to be one of the soccer coachs/cub scout leaders/etc. Try to volunteer in situations where you will be working with other parents. The more people see you acting a caring, involved dad, the more people will be comfortable with you. You'll have more opportunities to chitchat with the parents and build bridges. Also it is worth noting, that to be a cub scout leader/soccer coach, that means you've passed a basic background check too, so that's also another thing that indicates you are a stand up guy. It also helps people to see/meet your wife too and see you guys parenting together.

Good luck! I knew a SAHD that everyone was comfortable with. He was a superfriendly guy and a easy person to talk to....and his wife was a popular pediatrician. So there was already some common ground and trust already there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah I see pp attempted to explain. She just doesn't have male friends.

I think you are very anxious to fit people into the boxes you've designed for them. I have a ton of male friends. And when we want to spend time together, we go have coffee. Or lunch. Or dinner. Out in public. Not in each other's houses when no one else is present. Why are you so bothered by people's preferences? I'm not telling YOU how to conduct yourself. I am simply explaining why I - a person wholly separate and different from you - would choose to meet up with SAHD and his kids at a playground or a park but not at his or my house when no one else is around.

Can you please just answer my original question that I asked in the post before the one you quoted, then? Like I said this is really foreign to me and I do not get it and I want to. What is the inappropriateness you feel around being IN A HOUSE with someone of the opposite gender? I gave three reasons that are about as far as I can imagine it: fear of rape, fear of temptation, or concern about appearances/misinterpretation by people who don't know the two of you. ???

I'd answer it for you but I think you are committed to "not getting it". But let me try. I feel that it is inappropriate for me, as a married woman, to solicit and impose on myself, without any actual need, the scenario of being in a private setting with a member of the opposite sex. My DH feels the same way - he wouldn't hang out with a woman in her house. Coffee shop, sure. House, no. That's our deal. You don't have to sign up for it.

Yes, believe you me, I am FULLY AWARE that I don't have to agree with you. Thanks for the permission though.

You're still not answering my question. You are just saying the word "inappropriate" again and again. My question is WHAT IS INAPPROPRIATE?
Are you concerned about being raped?
Are you concerned about having an affair?
Are you not concerned about either of those things, but are concerned that you might be judged by third parties?
Or is it something else I have not thought of?

See, I knew you were committed to not getting it.

Try this, I'll put it in all caps:

IT FEELS WRONG.

[Anonymous]

I didn't want to write this, in case I come off as a crazy Christian, but the first thing that jumped into my mind is that we're to avoid the appearance of "evil". I personally think that's good thinking for everyone. What would my neighbors of fellow congregants think if they saw me go into a man's house, or having regular playdates with him?

If you don't like the religious aspect, one of the tests we use for ethics at my company is, "How would this look on the front page of the paper?". Would I want everyone to know I was regularly socializing with a man alone in his house?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My new goal is host as many play dates as it takes for my kids not to feel excluded.

Look, realistically, what other option do you have except continuing to host the play dates? You can't make other people invite your kids to their homes, regardless of whether their reasons are right, wrong, indifferent. But you also can't ensure that your kids don't feel excluded. My kid feels excluded to some degree because he is shy - he gets invited to some play dates, but isn't invited to as many as we host, probably because he isn't the first one other kids think of. Dealing with others not reciprocating equally is, unfortunately, a part of life and growing up that kids must learn to find a way to manage.

So you think your child is not being included because people are uncomfortable with you. Besides hosting playdates, the way for people to be comfortable with you is for them to get to know you, so be around....volunteer at school, be a room parent, volunteer to be one of the soccer coachs/cub scout leaders/etc. Try to volunteer in situations where you will be working with other parents. The more people see you acting a caring, involved dad, the more people will be comfortable with you. You'll have more opportunities to chitchat with the parents and build bridges. Also it is worth noting, that to be a cub scout leader/soccer coach, that means you've passed a basic background check too, so that's also another thing that indicates you are a stand up guy. It also helps people to see/meet your wife too and see you guys parenting together.

Good luck! I knew a SAHD that everyone was comfortable with. He was a superfriendly guy and a easy person to talk to....and his wife was a popular pediatrician. So there was already some common ground and trust already there.

OP jumping in here...

That's good advice, and go for it.

I tried those methods to be more high profile, involved, and make more friends. I PTA'ed at the preschool, co-op pre-school needing background checks (beside clearances/checks needed for my work), active on all the DCs sports teams and EC activities, and in the school's PTA... and all that meant nothing as far as my standing/acceptance. I'd have to guess it's because no one want to know me, or just keep on keeping me out.

Very glad to hear it worked out for your friend. I'm laid back friendly guy too. Perhaps, in my neighborhood, that is just seen as a slippery slope to depravity and infidelity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't want to write this, in case I come off as a crazy Christian, but the first thing that jumped into my mind is that we're to avoid the appearance of "evil". I personally think that's good thinking for everyone. What would my neighbors of fellow congregants think if they saw me go into a man's house, or having regular playdates with him?

If you don't like the religious aspect, one of the tests we use for ethics at my company is, "How would this look on the front page of the paper?". Would I want everyone to know I was regularly socializing with a man alone in his house?

OP

I can follow that logic, and that morality may be at the heart of perceptions/morality thinking. But I can't help thinking is it's kinda sad that perceptions are that paranoid, immature, gossipy. Plus, it's not you "having playmates with him", it's your kids.

Wouldn't a Christian reach out, rather than say no and never inviting/hosting suggest a outside neutral place instead of shunning me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't want to write this, in case I come off as a crazy Christian, but the first thing that jumped into my mind is that we're to avoid the appearance of "evil". I personally think that's good thinking for everyone. What would my neighbors of fellow congregants think if they saw me go into a man's house, or having regular playdates with him?

If you don't like the religious aspect, one of the tests we use for ethics at my company is, "How would this look on the front page of the paper?". Would I want everyone to know I was regularly socializing with a man alone in his house?

OP

I can follow that logic, and that morality may be at the heart of perceptions/morality thinking. But I can't help thinking is it's kinda sad that perceptions are that paranoid, immature, gossipy. Plus, it's not you "having playmates with him", it's your kids.

Wouldn't a Christian reach out, rather than say no and never inviting/hosting suggest a outside neutral place instead of shunning me?

Well, I'm the working mom who posted above (who has the military husband), so what I'd do doesn't really matter. But for what it's worth, I would attempt to get a larger group - even just 3 parents together with our kids. The third person makes it look like a completely different situation. Probably I'd shoot for 4 parents in case one didn't show up.

Honestly, with a group of 3+, I might even be comfortable with you in my house, or at your house. More cars in the driveway, to lessen the rumors around the neighbors, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP

CAUTION - RANT ALERT !

Woah, what happened to this thread!! I'm asking for perspective when my kids tell me they're lonely, feeling left out as they get invited to few play dates, and I'm see little reciprocity from others to host.... then the conversation turns into a sex centered debate on morality and maturity. It pisses me off that this is where minds go because I'm and SAHD posting, that gender makes a difference in non-sexual situations. Not that I'm ignorant, I know to be a total gentleman and careful to notice anything coming at me too.

I'm definitely NOT, "jonesing for alone time with moms" as someone phrased it. It's heartening to see both side equally represented and the immature sex-obsessed sociapaths are in a minority. It's just more stereotypes, the creepy homewrecker SAHD who can't keep it in his pants, home alone-wives who can resist throwing themselves at the nearest guy, the melodrama of marriages being threatened by the wife having infrequent time with a male... good grief!! I have to assume, those who think like that are immature, have issues, aren't fully grown up or undeveloped people themselves.

Sadly it may be true, that perspective is part of what I have been seeing all these years. While I'm not going to be missing out on spending time with anyone who thinks like that... but I won't accept that is a reason for my kids to be sidelined.

My new goal is host as many play dates as it takes for my kids not to feel excluded.

Haha, I'm the PP who posted the "jonesing" remark initially - you know that I was saying it in the context of saying you WERE NOT so jonesing, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah I see pp attempted to explain. She just doesn't have male friends.

I think you are very anxious to fit people into the boxes you've designed for them. I have a ton of male friends. And when we want to spend time together, we go have coffee. Or lunch. Or dinner. Out in public. Not in each other's houses when no one else is present. Why are you so bothered by people's preferences? I'm not telling YOU how to conduct yourself. I am simply explaining why I - a person wholly separate and different from you - would choose to meet up with SAHD and his kids at a playground or a park but not at his or my house when no one else is around.

Can you please just answer my original question that I asked in the post before the one you quoted, then? Like I said this is really foreign to me and I do not get it and I want to. What is the inappropriateness you feel around being IN A HOUSE with someone of the opposite gender? I gave three reasons that are about as far as I can imagine it: fear of rape, fear of temptation, or concern about appearances/misinterpretation by people who don't know the two of you. ???

I'd answer it for you but I think you are committed to "not getting it". But let me try. I feel that it is inappropriate for me, as a married woman, to solicit and impose on myself, without any actual need, the scenario of being in a private setting with a member of the opposite sex. My DH feels the same way - he wouldn't hang out with a woman in her house. Coffee shop, sure. House, no. That's our deal. You don't have to sign up for it.

Yes, believe you me, I am FULLY AWARE that I don't have to agree with you. Thanks for the permission though.

You're still not answering my question. You are just saying the word "inappropriate" again and again. My question is WHAT IS INAPPROPRIATE?
Are you concerned about being raped?
Are you concerned about having an affair?
Are you not concerned about either of those things, but are concerned that you might be judged by third parties?
Or is it something else I have not thought of?

See, I knew you were committed to not getting it.

Try this, I'll put it in all caps:

IT FEELS WRONG.

Thank you. It helps me understand where you are coming from that that's as specific as you can get.

[Anonymous]

OP jumping in here...

That's good advice, and go for it.

I tried those methods to be more high profile, involved, and make more friends. I PTA'ed at the preschool, co-op pre-school needing background checks (beside clearances/checks needed for my work), active on all the DCs sports teams and EC activities, and in the school's PTA... and all that meant nothing as far as my standing/acceptance. I'd have to guess it's because no one want to know me, or just keep on keeping me out.

OP, I'm not trying to be mean, but it seems like in addition to concern for your kids, you are feeling hurt by being left out of parent friendship groups. I'd try to focus on meeting people in other ways, and making some time for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah I see pp attempted to explain. She just doesn't have male friends.

I think you are very anxious to fit people into the boxes you've designed for them. I have a ton of male friends. And when we want to spend time together, we go have coffee. Or lunch. Or dinner. Out in public. Not in each other's houses when no one else is present. Why are you so bothered by people's preferences? I'm not telling YOU how to conduct yourself. I am simply explaining why I - a person wholly separate and different from you - would choose to meet up with SAHD and his kids at a playground or a park but not at his or my house when no one else is around.

Can you please just answer my original question that I asked in the post before the one you quoted, then? Like I said this is really foreign to me and I do not get it and I want to. What is the inappropriateness you feel around being IN A HOUSE with someone of the opposite gender? I gave three reasons that are about as far as I can imagine it: fear of rape, fear of temptation, or concern about appearances/misinterpretation by people who don't know the two of you. ???

I'd answer it for you but I think you are committed to "not getting it". But let me try. I feel that it is inappropriate for me, as a married woman, to solicit and impose on myself, without any actual need, the scenario of being in a private setting with a member of the opposite sex. My DH feels the same way - he wouldn't hang out with a woman in her house. Coffee shop, sure. House, no. That's our deal. You don't have to sign up for it.

Yes, believe you me, I am FULLY AWARE that I don't have to agree with you. Thanks for the permission though.

You're still not answering my question. You are just saying the word "inappropriate" again and again. My question is WHAT IS INAPPROPRIATE?
Are you concerned about being raped?
Are you concerned about having an affair?
Are you not concerned about either of those things, but are concerned that you might be judged by third parties?
Or is it something else I have not thought of?

See, I knew you were committed to not getting it.

Try this, I'll put it in all caps:

IT FEELS WRONG.

Thank you. It helps me understand where you are coming from that that's as specific as you can get.

Actually, I was trying to simplify it for you since you persist you need more and more explanation. You say you want to understand, but really, all you want to do is argue. This is why I am not getting more specific since I know you'll just circle back with questioning every letter I type, and I find that tiresome. You're like my five-year old who keeps saying, "but WHYYYY?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah I see pp attempted to explain. She just doesn't have male friends.

I think you are very anxious to fit people into the boxes you've designed for them. I have a ton of male friends. And when we want to spend time together, we go have coffee. Or lunch. Or dinner. Out in public. Not in each other's houses when no one else is present. Why are you so bothered by people's preferences? I'm not telling YOU how to conduct yourself. I am simply explaining why I - a person wholly separate and different from you - would choose to meet up with SAHD and his kids at a playground or a park but not at his or my house when no one else is around.

Can you please just answer my original question that I asked in the post before the one you quoted, then? Like I said this is really foreign to me and I do not get it and I want to. What is the inappropriateness you feel around being IN A HOUSE with someone of the opposite gender? I gave three reasons that are about as far as I can imagine it: fear of rape, fear of temptation, or concern about appearances/misinterpretation by people who don't know the two of you. ???

I'd answer it for you but I think you are committed to "not getting it". But let me try. I feel that it is inappropriate for me, as a married woman, to solicit and impose on myself, without any actual need, the scenario of being in a private setting with a member of the opposite sex. My DH feels the same way - he wouldn't hang out with a woman in her house. Coffee shop, sure. House, no. That's our deal. You don't have to sign up for it.

Yes, believe you me, I am FULLY AWARE that I don't have to agree with you. Thanks for the permission though.

You're still not answering my question. You are just saying the word "inappropriate" again and again. My question is WHAT IS INAPPROPRIATE?
Are you concerned about being raped?
Are you concerned about having an affair?
Are you not concerned about either of those things, but are concerned that you might be judged by third parties?
Or is it something else I have not thought of?

See, I knew you were committed to not getting it.

Try this, I'll put it in all caps:

IT FEELS WRONG.

Thank you. It helps me understand where you are coming from that that's as specific as you can get.

Actually, I was trying to simplify it for you since you persist you need more and more explanation. You say you want to understand, but really, all you want to do is argue. This is why I am not getting more specific since I know you'll just circle back with questioning every letter I type, and I find that tiresome. You're like my five-year old who keeps saying, "but WHYYYY?"

Different people are different, PP. 5-year-olds (and adults) ask why a million times when the answer doesn't make sense to them. When it does, they stop. I get you find it's inappropriate, I get you are uncomfortable, I get it makes you feel a way you don't want to feel. You can assume negative intent on my part all you like and nothing I can say will change your mind. Since I am a WOHM/SAHD family, our paths will clearly never cross in any significant way, so it doesn't matter to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

CAUTION - RANT ALERT !

Woah, what happened to this thread!! I'm asking for perspective when my kids tell me they're lonely, feeling left out as they get invited to few play dates, and I'm see little reciprocity from others to host.... then the conversation turns into a sex centered debate on morality and maturity. It pisses me off that this is where minds go because I'm and SAHD posting, that gender makes a difference in non-sexual situations. Not that I'm ignorant, I know to be a total gentleman and careful to notice anything coming at me too.

I'm definitely NOT, "jonesing for alone time with moms" as someone phrased it. It's heartening to see both side equally represented and the immature sex-obsessed sociapaths are in a minority. It's just more stereotypes, the creepy homewrecker SAHD who can't keep it in his pants, home alone-wives who can resist throwing themselves at the nearest guy, the melodrama of marriages being threatened by the wife having infrequent time with a male... good grief!! I have to assume, those who think like that are immature, have issues, aren't fully grown up or undeveloped people themselves.

Sadly it may be true, that perspective is part of what I have been seeing all these years. While I'm not going to be missing out on spending time with anyone who thinks like that... but I won't accept that is a reason for my kids to be sidelined.

My new goal is host as many play dates as it takes for my kids not to feel excluded.

Haha, I'm the PP who posted the "jonesing" remark initially - you know that I was saying it in the context of saying you WERE NOT so jonesing, right?

OP

Oh yeah - I understood where you were coming from. It's a perfect phrase, I had to re-use it.