Stay at home Dad: My kids not accepted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of these people with marriage boundaries where they are forbidden from being alone with men, are also not allowed to drive? Are you chaperoned? Do you have your own money?

I'm not forbidden from hanging out with other men. I just have a lot of friends already- I'm not looking for new ones and I don't want to hang out with your husband, no matter how tremendous you think he is. Why that bothers you so much is fascinating to me. He couldn't make it in the workplace now he can't make it in the land of SAHP and it really seems to stick in your craw, huh? I succeeded in both arenas and my husband didn't have to help me or shove other parents down my throat, so maybe we are just fundamentally different.

On a related note what is this common refrain about not looking for any 'new friends'? Is there like a limit on your phone? I mean if you are free and they are free who doesn't like making a new friend? Unless they are selling you jewelry or what not, yeah that would be evil

I am looking for new friends and I still wouldn't go out of my way to make friends with a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of these people with marriage boundaries where they are forbidden from being alone with men, are also not allowed to drive? Are you chaperoned? Do you have your own money?

I'm not forbidden from hanging out with other men. I just have a lot of friends already- I'm not looking for new ones and I don't want to hang out with your husband, no matter how tremendous you think he is. Why that bothers you so much is fascinating to me. He couldn't make it in the workplace now he can't make it in the land of SAHP and it really seems to stick in your craw, huh? I succeeded in both arenas and my husband didn't have to help me or shove other parents down my throat, so maybe we are just fundamentally different.

On a related note what is this common refrain about not looking for any 'new friends'? Is there like a limit on your phone? I mean if you are free and they are free who doesn't like making a new friend? Unless they are selling you jewelry or what not, yeah that would be evil

I think you're on to something here, PP, maybe SAHD has been trying to unload some Stella and Dot and is unaware that is a death blow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of these people with marriage boundaries where they are forbidden from being alone with men, are also not allowed to drive? Are you chaperoned? Do you have your own money?

I wonder if your brain has any space in it that isn't occupied by cliches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of these people with marriage boundaries where they are forbidden from being alone with men, are also not allowed to drive? Are you chaperoned? Do you have your own money?

You're saying that if a woman doesn't want to be alone with another woman's husband, it's because she's forbidden to do that? She can't simply NOT WANT to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, no one's telling you that YOU can't do it. We're just say that it's not something we'd choose to do. I understand why that's such a problem for you.

Because the idea that men and women are fundamentally differnt from one another and can't occupy the same social space in the same way is one of the root causes of keeping women down.

So you are saying women have to force themselves to endure uncomfortable settings because....what? to make a point? to make you happy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, no one's telling you that YOU can't do it. We're just say that it's not something we'd choose to do. I understand why that's such a problem for you.

Because the idea that men and women are fundamentally differnt from one another and can't occupy the same social space in the same way is one of the root causes of keeping women down.

So you are saying women have to force themselves to endure uncomfortable settings because....what? to make a point? to make you happy?

Not the immediate PP. Of course no one is suggesting that you should endure something that makes you uncomfortable. But you are seemingly uncomfortable simply because the other parent is a man. That's what many of us find to be odd. It's not based on his personality, whether your kids get along or any of the other things you probably consider when contemplating a play date with another mother at her home. Do any of you have sons of your own? How would you feel if women refused to interact with them socially as adults for these same reasons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of these people with marriage boundaries where they are forbidden from being alone with men, are also not allowed to drive? Are you chaperoned? Do you have your own money?

I'm not forbidden from hanging out with other men. I just have a lot of friends already- I'm not looking for new ones and I don't want to hang out with your husband, no matter how tremendous you think he is. Why that bothers you so much is fascinating to me. He couldn't make it in the workplace now he can't make it in the land of SAHP and it really seems to stick in your craw, huh? I succeeded in both arenas and my husband didn't have to help me or shove other parents down my throat, so maybe we are just fundamentally different.

On a related note what is this common refrain about not looking for any 'new friends'? Is there like a limit on your phone? I mean if you are free and they are free who doesn't like making a new friend? Unless they are selling you jewelry or what not, yeah that would be evil

I am looking for new friends and I still wouldn't go out of my way to make friends with a man.

That's too bad. You are missing out. I've had lots of good male friends in my life and those friendships have been just as valuable as my female friendships, albeit in a different way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of these people with marriage boundaries where they are forbidden from being alone with men, are also not allowed to drive? Are you chaperoned? Do you have your own money?

I'm not forbidden from hanging out with other men. I just have a lot of friends already- I'm not looking for new ones and I don't want to hang out with your husband, no matter how tremendous you think he is. Why that bothers you so much is fascinating to me. He couldn't make it in the workplace now he can't make it in the land of SAHP and it really seems to stick in your craw, huh? I succeeded in both arenas and my husband didn't have to help me or shove other parents down my throat, so maybe we are just fundamentally different.

On a related note what is this common refrain about not looking for any 'new friends'? Is there like a limit on your phone? I mean if you are free and they are free who doesn't like making a new friend? Unless they are selling you jewelry or what not, yeah that would be evil

I am looking for new friends and I still wouldn't go out of my way to make friends with a man.

That's too bad. You are missing out. I've had lots of good male friends in my life and those friendships have been just as valuable as my female friendships, albeit in a different way.

Actually, all my friends have always been men. I simply no longer feel that’s appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, no one's telling you that YOU can't do it. We're just say that it's not something we'd choose to do. I understand why that's such a problem for you.

Because the idea that men and women are fundamentally differnt from one another and can't occupy the same social space in the same way is one of the root causes of keeping women down.

So you are saying women have to force themselves to endure uncomfortable settings because....what? to make a point? to make you happy?

I'm saying you are an adult who is responsible for harmonizing your ideals and your emotions. If you were "uncomfortable" being friends with someone of a different race I wouldn't say, "oh, well then, fine, just don't be open to friendships with people like that." I would say get your head in gear and see the problems your attitude raises. The attitude, and your resulting emotional response, are under your control and you are responsible for clinging to the idea that women can't be on equal footing with men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of these people with marriage boundaries where they are forbidden from being alone with men, are also not allowed to drive? Are you chaperoned? Do you have your own money?

I'm not forbidden from hanging out with other men. I just have a lot of friends already- I'm not looking for new ones and I don't want to hang out with your husband, no matter how tremendous you think he is. Why that bothers you so much is fascinating to me. He couldn't make it in the workplace now he can't make it in the land of SAHP and it really seems to stick in your craw, huh? I succeeded in both arenas and my husband didn't have to help me or shove other parents down my throat, so maybe we are just fundamentally different.

On a related note what is this common refrain about not looking for any 'new friends'? Is there like a limit on your phone? I mean if you are free and they are free who doesn't like making a new friend? Unless they are selling you jewelry or what not, yeah that would be evil

I am looking for new friends and I still wouldn't go out of my way to make friends with a man.

That's too bad. You are missing out. I've had lots of good male friends in my life and those friendships have been just as valuable as my female friendships, albeit in a different way.

Actually, all my friends have always been men. I simply no longer feel that’s appropriate.

I understand now why you are looking for new friends. I'm glad I didn't have to give up any of my friends when I got married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, no one's telling you that YOU can't do it. We're just say that it's not something we'd choose to do. I understand why that's such a problem for you.

Because the idea that men and women are fundamentally differnt from one another and can't occupy the same social space in the same way is one of the root causes of keeping women down.

So you are saying women have to force themselves to endure uncomfortable settings because....what? to make a point? to make you happy?

Not the immediate PP. Of course no one is suggesting that you should endure something that makes you uncomfortable. But you are seemingly uncomfortable simply because the other parent is a man. That's what many of us find to be odd. It's not based on his personality, whether your kids get along or any of the other things you probably consider when contemplating a play date with another mother at her home. Do any of you have sons of your own? How would you feel if women refused to interact with them socially as adults for these same reasons?

I interact with men in a thousand social settings with an exception of privacy of their homes where no other adults happen to be present. Iwould feel just fine if women married to other men refused to hang out in my son's house one on one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, no one's telling you that YOU can't do it. We're just say that it's not something we'd choose to do. I understand why that's such a problem for you.

Because the idea that men and women are fundamentally differnt from one another and can't occupy the same social space in the same way is one of the root causes of keeping women down.

So you are saying women have to force themselves to endure uncomfortable settings because....what? to make a point? to make you happy?

I'm saying you are an adult who is responsible for harmonizing your ideals and your emotions. If you were "uncomfortable" being friends with someone of a different race I wouldn't say, "oh, well then, fine, just don't be open to friendships with people like that." I would say get your head in gear and see the problems your attitude raises. The attitude, and your resulting emotional response, are under your control and you are responsible for clinging to the idea that women can't be on equal footing with men.

Again, you are confusing friendship with absence of boundaries. I don't see any problems with my preference not to be alone in the house with other women's husbands when I don't really have to. I also don't see how it violates any concepts of "equal footing".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah I see pp attempted to explain. She just doesn't have male friends.

I think you are very anxious to fit people into the boxes you've designed for them. I have a ton of male friends. And when we want to spend time together, we go have coffee. Or lunch. Or dinner. Out in public. Not in each other's houses when no one else is present. Why are you so bothered by people's preferences? I'm not telling YOU how to conduct yourself. I am simply explaining why I - a person wholly separate and different from you - would choose to meet up with SAHD and his kids at a playground or a park but not at his or my house when no one else is around.

Can you please just answer my original question that I asked in the post before the one you quoted, then? Like I said this is really foreign to me and I do not get it and I want to. What is the inappropriateness you feel around being IN A HOUSE with someone of the opposite gender? I gave three reasons that are about as far as I can imagine it: fear of rape, fear of temptation, or concern about appearances/misinterpretation by people who don't know the two of you. ???

I'd answer it for you but I think you are committed to "not getting it". But let me try. I feel that it is inappropriate for me, as a married woman, to solicit and impose on myself, without any actual need, the scenario of being in a private setting with a member of the opposite sex. My DH feels the same way - he wouldn't hang out with a woman in her house. Coffee shop, sure. House, no. That's our deal. You don't have to sign up for it.

Yes, believe you me, I am FULLY AWARE that I don't have to agree with you. Thanks for the permission though.

You're still not answering my question. You are just saying the word "inappropriate" again and again. My question is WHAT IS INAPPROPRIATE?
Are you concerned about being raped?
Are you concerned about having an affair?
Are you not concerned about either of those things, but are concerned that you might be judged by third parties?
Or is it something else I have not thought of?

See, I knew you were committed to not getting it.

Try this, I'll put it in all caps:

IT FEELS WRONG.

Thank you. It helps me understand where you are coming from that that's as specific as you can get.

Actually, I was trying to simplify it for you since you persist you need more and more explanation. You say you want to understand, but really, all you want to do is argue. This is why I am not getting more specific since I know you'll just circle back with questioning every letter I type, and I find that tiresome. You're like my five-year old who keeps saying, "but WHYYYY?"

Different people are different, PP. 5-year-olds (and adults) ask why a million times when the answer doesn't make sense to them. When it does, they stop. I get you find it's inappropriate, I get you are uncomfortable, I get it makes you feel a way you don't want to feel. You can assume negative intent on my part all you like and nothing I can say will change your mind. Since I am a WOHM/SAHD family, our paths will clearly never cross in any significant way, so it doesn't matter to me.

Well all right, you convinced me, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

It's like this: in our marriage, certain things are reserved for spouses only. Seeing you naked is one. Having leisurely social contact in a fully private setting is another. Hanging out in another man's house when no other adults are present would feel to me as a violation of my and his marriage boundaries. Hanging out socially and in private with your SAHD husband should be reserved only for you in my mind. So I wouldn't want it. And my husband wouldn't want me to either. This has nothing to do with my fear of your husband who I am sure is an upstanding man and father, or temptation. It also has nothing to with perceptions since I don't care what other people think if I'm not married to them. I just feel that hanging out with him in private is for his wife and his wife alone.

pp you're replying to here. (haven't been back to the thread until now.) There is something really...unsurprising about the fact that you only took me seriously when I mentioned my husband, and that you leapt to the conclusion that I was taking your stance as a personal affront to him. I'm more glad than I even was before that our "lifestyle" ensures that you and we won't cross paths in a significant way. I hope for the best for your family and kids as you navigate the modern world. And I really hope you aren't the judgmental pp who was throwing shade at the sexual mores of women who DO entertain SAHDs in their homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
pp you're replying to here. (haven't been back to the thread until now.) There is something really...unsurprising about the fact that you only took me seriously when I mentioned my husband, and that you leapt to the conclusion that I was taking your stance as a personal affront to him. I'm more glad than I even was before that our "lifestyle" ensures that you and we won't cross paths in a significant way. I hope for the best for your family and kids as you navigate the modern world. And I really hope you aren't the judgmental pp who was throwing shade at the sexual mores of women who DO entertain SAHDs in their homes.

Now you're getting crazy. I don't take anyone here seriously - we're all just bozos on the screen. You were very persistent and then mentioned you are a SAHD family so I figured you have a personal stake in the matter and this is more than idle chatter to you, so I took the trouble of explaining how I feel.

I was right. You WERE committed to not understanding. Nice job trying to get a barb in about my family's ability to navigate the modern world. You're funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
pp you're replying to here. (haven't been back to the thread until now.) There is something really...unsurprising about the fact that you only took me seriously when I mentioned my husband, and that you leapt to the conclusion that I was taking your stance as a personal affront to him. I'm more glad than I even was before that our "lifestyle" ensures that you and we won't cross paths in a significant way. I hope for the best for your family and kids as you navigate the modern world. And I really hope you aren't the judgmental pp who was throwing shade at the sexual mores of women who DO entertain SAHDs in their homes.

Now you're getting crazy. I don't take anyone here seriously - we're all just bozos on the screen. You were very persistent and then mentioned you are a SAHD family so I figured you have a personal stake in the matter and this is more than idle chatter to you, so I took the trouble of explaining how I feel.

which I appreciate. and just emphasized the gulf between us. The point that many are trying to make to you (not me, as much) is that EVERYONE has "a personal stake in the matter," not just families like mine.

I was right. You WERE committed to not understanding. Nice job trying to get a barb in about my family's ability to navigate the modern world. You're funny.

I guess we can both go to bed smug in our rightness, then. Good night!