Any other women quiet quitting your marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, based on talking to my friends, this is very common, especially for the ones who married American women. Otherwise, not so much.

Most of my friends make mid six-figures, financially very comfortable, but the wives have insisted on having a very busy career of their own--one that usually amounts to less than my friend's income tax. They've begged their wives to let the hobby job go, take more time with family, etc., but the women prefer the persecution complex of "having to do it all" and "a woman's work is never done" "third shift" and all that.

These are the garbage men like my exDH who pushed me out of the workforce because his salary made mine “pointless” and he didn’t want to do his share of parenting and wanted me to pick it up because he “was on track for seven figures”.

Well guess what? Two weeks before he hit seven figures, he served me divorce papers. Assets divide in divorce, income doesn’t.

Don’t let a manipulative man scheme to get you to carry his share and drop your salary. It’s a ploy that only benefits him.

Wouldn't the lower earning spouse get alimony?

I'm a DH but I'm sympathetic to women wanting to stay in the labor force. But if the husband is making high income and the wife still wants to work, hiring outside help seems like a better solution. Trying to do it all or getting mad that DH who works 60-80 hours a week and earns mid to high six figures doesn't have energy to do laundry seems pointless.

Different poster. In terms of the housework, it really isn’t about the laundry. It’s about empathy.

If the guy working 60-80 hours a week recognized that his wife was doing all of the things, told her that he didn’t want her to be exhausted because it isn’t healthy, and they got on care.com and Craigslist and worked together to hire a housekeeper 3-5 days a week, then that would help. If she just hires the housekeeper on her own and manages that person, it still feels *to her* like she’s handling everything.
I mean, you can imagine a guy who works 80 hours a week and feels bad that he isn’t home more vs a guy who feels that he has the most important job and feels that he shouldn’t have to do anything at home.


And when it comes to parenting kids it’s that kids need their other parent. The OP is one person. She has gaps in her knowledge and skills when it comes to raising kids. We all do. Ideally, the other parent would be another layer of Swiss cheese, and stacked on top of one another it would reduce the gaps. Instead, most of the time he’s not there at all, and when he is, instead of layering on top and jumping in to systems already in place, he keeps taking bites out of the other person’s cheese! wanting more for himself, and making the holes even bigger.

I get that part of what makes these guys great at their jobs is this belief that he can do anything. These are those guys that, in the movies, defy the odds and succeed despite the naysayers. But they also need to recognize reality and see where they are falling short. If you are working 80 hours a week, you are not doing things that need to be done with the house and the kids because you aren’t physically present to do them.

Going back to the housekeeper. If these guys can recognize that they are letting their family down in some way, make peace with that, and take steps to rectify the situation, and hiring a housekeeper or the wife working less is part of that, then great. If he isn’t willing to admit that he is failing at home, and the narrative is that he is doing his part but that his wife can’t hack it, then hiring help isn’t going to help the marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking back, are there any red flags when you were dating? Lessons we could pass along to our sons and daughters.

Yes.

We met in professional school. He relied on the structure of professional school socializing for a life outside of studying. He wasn’t proactive socially and took advantage of the effort of others. Same in situations like study groups or cooperative projects. He was mild-mannered and nice so people didn’t question it, me included.

Big procrastinator about anything that wasn’t fun after we graduated but were still dating. There was always something work-related that took precedent but it was sort of ok because we were hustling to build our careers. He relied on a future provider image to cover the fact that he was a taker or just lazy in the present.

Kind of mean about money in a way that was confusing. Would spend generously on friends’ wedding presents, group trips, public gifts for family. But was nickel and dime-y about splitting expenses even when we had a difference in salaries or even if I had been more generous about a previous expense.

And this is embarrassing, but selfish in bed. I took it as assertive at first and thought I just needed to communicate my needs more or something. Or that we were still getting to know what we each needed. That selfishness was indicative of literally everything that happened later.

I don’t know that I would have seen any of this as red flags other than maybe being selfish in bed. But I can see how you could easily interpret that as a lack of communication.

[Anonymous]

Just gonna make it worse, if it that’s bad you two shouldn’t be together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking back, are there any red flags when you were dating? Lessons we could pass along to our sons and daughters.

Yes.

We met in professional school. He relied on the structure of professional school socializing for a life outside of studying. He wasn’t proactive socially and took advantage of the effort of others. Same in situations like study groups or cooperative projects. He was mild-mannered and nice so people didn’t question it, me included.

Big procrastinator about anything that wasn’t fun after we graduated but were still dating. There was always something work-related that took precedent but it was sort of ok because we were hustling to build our careers. He relied on a future provider image to cover the fact that he was a taker or just lazy in the present.

Kind of mean about money in a way that was confusing. Would spend generously on friends’ wedding presents, group trips, public gifts for family. But was nickel and dime-y about splitting expenses even when we had a difference in salaries or even if I had been more generous about a previous expense.

And this is embarrassing, but selfish in bed. I took it as assertive at first and thought I just needed to communicate my needs more or something. Or that we were still getting to know what we each needed. That selfishness was indicative of literally everything that happened later.

I don’t know that I would have seen any of this as red flags other than maybe being selfish in bed. But I can see how you could easily interpret that as a lack of communication.

Seriously? The sex thing was the only flag you found?

"He wasn’t proactive socially"
"[He] took advantage of the effort of others."
"Same in situations like study groups or cooperative projects."
"Big procrastinator about anything that wasn’t fun after we graduated"
"There was always something work-related that took precedent"
"He relied on a future provider image to cover the fact that he was a taker or just lazy in the present"
"Kind of mean about money in a way that was confusing. Would spend generously on friends... But was nickel and dime-y about splitting expenses even when we had"


I would not even consider adopting a dog with this person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In reading these posts I see a lot of valid frustrations, but I also see a total lack of empathy for your partner’s experience. Resentments are building and love is eroding, but the underlying view is I am entitled to more, their life is separate and better than mine. If you are keeping score in a marriage than you are the reason for the disconnect, nothing your partner says or does will ever even the score because only one person decides what counts and the number of points on the board. Stop thinking they are the enemy and believe they are your partner in a situation where both of you are feeling unappreciated, unheard and undervalued. This might help you fall in love again or at least start to respect each other a little bit more.

- In most of the posts, there is an underlying belief seems to be that the spouse can fix the angst they feel about life. They don’t care if they don’t change how things are, but the issue seems like perspective on life has changed from one person while the offending spouse is holding steady hoping it will change back. Not defending them, but when emotions lead, everyone loses.
- Their work is seen as a vacation from the family responsibilities, not as an investment in the family. They may feel that the current challenges are temporary and if they stay committed to the long term goals all will work out in the end.

But quiet quitting isn't about keeping score. It's about taking care of yourself and disengaging from other people's emotional responses.

Getting to the point of passive aggressively quiet quitting is about years of keeping score.

You’re projecting. She isn’t passive aggressively doing anything. She’s just NOT doing things. Just because I don’t note my MILs birthday in my calendar, but a cad, ship for a gift, remind the kids to sign the card, send both ahead of time, remind DH the day of to call her etc etc isn’t being passive aggressive. It’s just… not doing all that. Your immediate jump to someone not performing domestic duties for you as “passive aggressive” and “score keeping” says more about how you treat your own spouse than OP.

Not doing things with contempt and out of resentment implies passive aggression and keeping score, but maybe I am reading into it. I would have to delete those calendar reminders purposely and I said nothing about domestic duties. I was referring to the idea of purposely quiet quitting in a relationship which doesn’t have to be about domestic duties. You can quiet quitting by working less hours or doing less at work or by not initiating sex with your spouse. You seem to have strong opinions on my character and relationship with zero knowledge, being psychic and wrong must be awesome.

Again, simple projection. Who said not doing things out of “contempt”? Only you. By not taking on those tasks and the emotional labour associated, she is literally “working less hours”.

Not doing something =/= passive aggressive. You are adding words and flavour to suit your narrative, but that’s not OPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m talking about emotionally detaching and reducing effort in the marriage to the bare minimum. I’m burnt out from a full-time job and being the default parent. At the end of the day, my kids, clients, and husband take everything I have to give, leaving nothing for me. I’m sick of all his “work” conferences, dinners, and pleasure trips while I’m breaking my back at work and at home. I’m just done. He adds no value to my life anymore. I’m calendaring my own solo bucket-list trips this year. I’m not communicating with him outside of necessary parenting. I’m dropping the rope on anything related to his family. I’m investing my time and income in myself, my kids, and my friendships. He gets nothing from me. How long can this last? Long enough to finish raising kids? I won’t exactly be sad if it leads to divorce, so fear of divorce is not motivating me to keep trying.

Genuine question - do you not think that is going to lead to tension for your kids? I can't imagine my children not being acutely aware of their dad and I not talking, not being affectionate, etc. They would suss out immediately if we were doing this (and they have once pointed out that there was tension when they walked downstairs and we were in the middle of a disagreement - no yelling or anything, but we were very annoyed with each other).

Right!

It’s wild that people think living like this for 5-10 years is somehow healthier for their children than divorce. Why teach them that their mom will tolerate anything their dad dishes out? Wow, really punishing him with the minimal communication. He truly gives no fcks.
This only hurts
OP. If there’s no road to repair, just cut the losses already.

Valid, but then see the other post:

The other side of it: I was left by a checked-out DH who decided he cared about his career more than anything else. But then he went after custody even though he had zero interest in parenting. My kids would have been better with everyone under one roof and tension and one checked-out parent rather than having to be ignored and fend for themselves 40% of the time at their father’s house.

A tense household is better than spending half the remainder of your childhood never getting to school or activities on time, being ignored at home, waking yourself up and scrambling for clean clothes and packed lunch supplies because your father “had an early meeting” ever day that week, and wondering if that’s the day you’ll get picked up from soccer or will have to once again beg a ride from another parent.

You can't always cut your losses. Some of them linger long after a divorce. For some of us, our kids' suffering is our suffering.

Not the PP but are you trying to imply that some posters wouldn't care about their kids' suffering? I think the point is that the dynamic OP has described sounds awful for kids. Might it be better than the alternative? Sometimes, sure. But OP seemed to act like she was making the decision to do what she is because of her own suffering, no mention of her kids. So just to be clear, it seems like OP is the one who doesn't care about her kids' suffering, not the ones bringing up the effects of living with tension.

[Anonymous]

Wow, OP, thanks for describing what I've been doing subconsciously. I just did not have any more left to give DH last year. I'm a fed supervisor and everything hit the fan at my agency.

I have been overfunctioning for him for years by keeping the household together and our young DCs cared for as he regularly falls apart/tantrums from executive functioning issues due to life stressors. He lost his job a year ago and has said he has no intention of going back into "the system" to suck his time and energy. He's in counseling thankfully, I pushed him to get an ADHD evaluation, see a psychiatrist, and get on meds, but I am mentally exhausted and checked out at this point.

I hope we can come back from this, but don't know if it's possible, especially if he's committed to not working a regular job again and if the mood swings and tantrums don't stop. I'll consider a long-term separation before going through with a divorce though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a child psychologist prior to quiet quitting, and kids don't really care if parents are affectionate with each other. Kids just need an intact, low-conflict home, if that's possible.

Sure, they don't NEED it. Kids don't need a lot of things to survive, but is that the standard you're setting for your life? Is that the kind of relationship you hope your kids find themselves in? Also, maybe OP can happily exist in her state of blankness, but the situation to me sounds full of tension, which is the opposite of a low-conflict home. I mean, I suppose there's no conflict if they don't speak to each other...but I'm not sure that's what your child psychologist meant by low-conflict because it's just simmering hatred and resentment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, based on talking to my friends, this is very common, especially for the ones who married American women. Otherwise, not so much.

Most of my friends make mid six-figures, financially very comfortable, but the wives have insisted on having a very busy career of their own--one that usually amounts to less than my friend's income tax. They've begged their wives to let the hobby job go, take more time with family, etc., but the women prefer the persecution complex of "having to do it all" and "a woman's work is never done" "third shift" and all that.

These are the garbage men like my exDH who pushed me out of the workforce because his salary made mine “pointless” and he didn’t want to do his share of parenting and wanted me to pick it up because he “was on track for seven figures”.

Well guess what? Two weeks before he hit seven figures, he served me divorce papers. Assets divide in divorce, income doesn’t.

Don’t let a manipulative man scheme to get you to carry his share and drop your salary. It’s a ploy that only benefits him.

Wouldn't the lower earning spouse get alimony?

I'm a DH but I'm sympathetic to women wanting to stay in the labor force. But if the husband is making high income and the wife still wants to work, hiring outside help seems like a better solution. Trying to do it all or getting mad that DH who works 60-80 hours a week and earns mid to high six figures doesn't have energy to do laundry seems pointless.

Different poster. In terms of the housework, it really isn’t about the laundry. It’s about empathy.

If the guy working 60-80 hours a week recognized that his wife was doing all of the things, told her that he didn’t want her to be exhausted because it isn’t healthy, and they got on care.com and Craigslist and worked together to hire a housekeeper 3-5 days a week, then that would help. If she just hires the housekeeper on her own and manages that person, it still feels *to her* like she’s handling everything.

I mean, you can imagine a guy who works 80 hours a week and feels bad that he isn’t home more vs a guy who feels that he has the most important job and feels that he shouldn’t have to do anything at home.


And when it comes to parenting kids it’s that kids need their other parent. The OP is one person. She has gaps in her knowledge and skills when it comes to raising kids. We all do. Ideally, the other parent would be another layer of Swiss cheese, and stacked on top of one another it would reduce the gaps. Instead, most of the time he’s not there at all, and when he is, instead of layering on top and jumping in to systems already in place, he keeps taking bites out of the other person’s cheese! wanting more for himself, and making the holes even bigger.

I get that part of what makes these guys great at their jobs is this belief that he can do anything. These are those guys that, in the movies, defy the odds and succeed despite the naysayers. But they also need to recognize reality and see where they are falling short. If you are working 80 hours a week, you are not doing things that need to be done with the house and the kids because you aren’t physically present to do them.

Going back to the housekeeper. If these guys can recognize that they are letting their family down in some way, make peace with that, and take steps to rectify the situation, and hiring a housekeeper or the wife working less is part of that, then great. If he isn’t willing to admit that he is failing at home, and the narrative is that he is doing his part but that his wife can’t hack it, then hiring help isn’t going to help the marriage.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking back, are there any red flags when you were dating? Lessons we could pass along to our sons and daughters.

Yes.

We met in professional school. He relied on the structure of professional school socializing for a life outside of studying. He wasn’t proactive socially and took advantage of the effort of others. Same in situations like study groups or cooperative projects. He was mild-mannered and nice so people didn’t question it, me included.

Big procrastinator about anything that wasn’t fun after we graduated but were still dating. There was always something work-related that took precedent but it was sort of ok because we were hustling to build our careers. He relied on a future provider image to cover the fact that he was a taker or just lazy in the present.

Kind of mean about money in a way that was confusing. Would spend generously on friends’ wedding presents, group trips, public gifts for family. But was nickel and dime-y about splitting expenses even when we had a difference in salaries or even if I had been more generous about a previous expense.

And this is embarrassing, but selfish in bed. I took it as assertive at first and thought I just needed to communicate my needs more or something. Or that we were still getting to know what we each needed. That selfishness was indicative of literally everything that happened later.

I don’t know that I would have seen any of this as red flags other than maybe being selfish in bed. But I can see how you could easily interpret that as a lack of communication.

DP
In my case my spouse functioned well in grad school due to the structure, explicit deadlines, fun planned events to tag along to, and money to spend.
But when he did forget something or to be somewhere, he’d argue. It was odd. But I believed he truly forgot or didn’t see the text or emails.

Fast FW to marriage, working, kids, sets of grandparents far away…. At age 39 he was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD. Instead of taking the psychologist’s advice and doing therapy and putting systems in place, he’d rather keep hitting the wall and yelling at his family, whom he is letting down. He refuses to manage his symptoms and that’s why the household and marriage collapsed.

Net/net suss out multi-tasking skills when dating, and “discussion” and “conflict resolution” skills. If they run and hide, leave. If they argue and change the subject, leave faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m talking about emotionally detaching and reducing effort in the marriage to the bare minimum. I’m burnt out from a full-time job and being the default parent. At the end of the day, my kids, clients, and husband take everything I have to give, leaving nothing for me. I’m sick of all his “work” conferences, dinners, and pleasure trips while I’m breaking my back at work and at home. I’m just done. He adds no value to my life anymore. I’m calendaring my own solo bucket-list trips this year. I’m not communicating with him outside of necessary parenting. I’m dropping the rope on anything related to his family. I’m investing my time and income in myself, my kids, and my friendships. He gets nothing from me. How long can this last? Long enough to finish raising kids? I won’t exactly be sad if it leads to divorce, so fear of divorce is not motivating me to keep trying.

Genuine question - do you not think that is going to lead to tension for your kids? I can't imagine my children not being acutely aware of their dad and I not talking, not being affectionate, etc. They would suss out immediately if we were doing this (and they have once pointed out that there was tension when they walked downstairs and we were in the middle of a disagreement - no yelling or anything, but we were very annoyed with each other).

Right!

It’s wild that people think living like this for 5-10 years is somehow healthier for their children than divorce. Why teach them that their mom will tolerate anything their dad dishes out? Wow, really punishing him with the minimal communication. He truly gives no fcks.
This only hurts
OP. If there’s no road to repair, just cut the losses already.

Valid, but then see the other post:

The other side of it: I was left by a checked-out DH who decided he cared about his career more than anything else. But then he went after custody even though he had zero interest in parenting. My kids would have been better with everyone under one roof and tension and one checked-out parent rather than having to be ignored and fend for themselves 40% of the time at their father’s house.

A tense household is better than spending half the remainder of your childhood never getting to school or activities on time, being ignored at home, waking yourself up and scrambling for clean clothes and packed lunch supplies because your father “had an early meeting” ever day that week, and wondering if that’s the day you’ll get picked up from soccer or will have to once again beg a ride from another parent.

You can't always cut your losses. Some of them linger long after a divorce. For some of us, our kids' suffering is our suffering.

Not the PP but are you trying to imply that some posters wouldn't care about their kids' suffering? I think the point is that the dynamic OP has described sounds awful for kids. Might it be better than the alternative? Sometimes, sure. But OP seemed to act like she was making the decision to do what she is because of her own suffering, no mention of her kids. So just to be clear, it seems like OP is the one who doesn't care about her kids' suffering, not the ones bringing up the effects of living with tension.

Kids always suffer from an emotionally absent parent.

Kids always suffer from an emotional absent parent who wafts in and out causing chaos and arguments.

The kids only have one functional parent parenting. The dysfunctional parent needs to stop undermining everything and either get it together or stay away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is easy OP: treat him just like he treats you.

Nothing more nothing less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking back, are there any red flags when you were dating? Lessons we could pass along to our sons and daughters.

Yes.

We met in professional school. He relied on the structure of professional school socializing for a life outside of studying. He wasn’t proactive socially and took advantage of the effort of others. Same in situations like study groups or cooperative projects. He was mild-mannered and nice so people didn’t question it, me included.

Big procrastinator about anything that wasn’t fun after we graduated but were still dating. There was always something work-related that took precedent but it was sort of ok because we were hustling to build our careers. He relied on a future provider image to cover the fact that he was a taker or just lazy in the present.

Kind of mean about money in a way that was confusing. Would spend generously on friends’ wedding presents, group trips, public gifts for family. But was nickel and dime-y about splitting expenses even when we had a difference in salaries or even if I had been more generous about a previous expense.

And this is embarrassing, but selfish in bed. I took it as assertive at first and thought I just needed to communicate my needs more or something. Or that we were still getting to know what we each needed. That selfishness was indicative of literally everything that happened later.

I don’t know that I would have seen any of this as red flags other than maybe being selfish in bed. But I can see how you could easily interpret that as a lack of communication.

Seriously? The sex thing was the only flag you found?

"He wasn’t proactive socially"
"[He] took advantage of the effort of others."
"Same in situations like study groups or cooperative projects."
"Big procrastinator about anything that wasn’t fun after we graduated"
"There was always something work-related that took precedent"
"He relied on a future provider image to cover the fact that he was a taker or just lazy in the present"
"Kind of mean about money in a way that was confusing. Would spend generously on friends... But was nickel and dime-y about splitting expenses even when we had"


I would not even consider adopting a dog with this person.

I reread it, and I see what you mean. At first I read this as someone who went to social events, but didn’t organize them, and was kind of a procrastinator when they were in school. I was thinking, “that’s like 80% of people.”

But on rereading it, I’m getting more of a picture that it wasn’t that he didn’t want to do anything difficult or was a big procrastinator. He did do difficult things when it came to work and school and hustling. It was more that he expected that his relationship with OP would just always be fun and make his life better, and he was kind of resentful whenever she had needs or wasn’t fun.

This is such a tangent, but there is a short story by Claire Keegan about a failed relationship. At one point, the man is all excited to have his girlfriend move in with him. She’s really fun, and they have good sex, and she’s a good cook. But when she comes, she brings her clothes and toiletries and moves his things. He gets really upset. She’s like, “What did you think would happen? You didn’t think I would want to keep my toothbrush in the bathroom?”

I wonder if OP’s husband would relate to this. He’s all excited to have a wife and children, but then when he is asked to change and demands are placed on him, he gets kind of mad. And OP is like, “What did you think would happen?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a child psychologist prior to quiet quitting, and kids don't really care if parents are affectionate with each other. Kids just need an intact, low-conflict home, if that's possible.

+1

It's more of what they hear when the parents communicate.

If it is polite & calm "yes, I'll get the kids from school today and pick up the order on the way home" it doesn't need the added "yes, babe....love you (insert kiss)!"

But if one side name calls or talks bad about the other parent when that parent is out of the room then that is what starts causing issues.

And of course if one parent is so stressed they are constantly losing patience with the kids that causes issues too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking back, are there any red flags when you were dating? Lessons we could pass along to our sons and daughters.

Yes.

We met in professional school. He relied on the structure of professional school socializing for a life outside of studying. He wasn’t proactive socially and took advantage of the effort of others. Same in situations like study groups or cooperative projects. He was mild-mannered and nice so people didn’t question it, me included.

Big procrastinator about anything that wasn’t fun after we graduated but were still dating. There was always something work-related that took precedent but it was sort of ok because we were hustling to build our careers. He relied on a future provider image to cover the fact that he was a taker or just lazy in the present.

Kind of mean about money in a way that was confusing. Would spend generously on friends’ wedding presents, group trips, public gifts for family. But was nickel and dime-y about splitting expenses even when we had a difference in salaries or even if I had been more generous about a previous expense.

And this is embarrassing, but selfish in bed. I took it as assertive at first and thought I just needed to communicate my needs more or something. Or that we were still getting to know what we each needed. That selfishness was indicative of literally everything that happened later.

I don’t know that I would have seen any of this as red flags other than maybe being selfish in bed. But I can see how you could easily interpret that as a lack of communication.

Seriously? The sex thing was the only flag you found?

"He wasn’t proactive socially"
"[He] took advantage of the effort of others."
"Same in situations like study groups or cooperative projects."
"Big procrastinator about anything that wasn’t fun after we graduated"
"There was always something work-related that took precedent"
"He relied on a future provider image to cover the fact that he was a taker or just lazy in the present"
"Kind of mean about money in a way that was confusing. Would spend generously on friends... But was nickel and dime-y about splitting expenses even when we had"


I would not even consider adopting a dog with this person.

I reread it, and I see what you mean. At first I read this as someone who went to social events, but didn’t organize them, and was kind of a procrastinator when they were in school. I was thinking, “that’s like 80% of people.”

But on rereading it, I’m getting more of a picture that it wasn’t that he didn’t want to do anything difficult or was a big procrastinator. He did do difficult things when it came to work and school and hustling. It was more that he expected that his relationship with OP would just always be fun and make his life better, and he was kind of resentful whenever she had needs or wasn’t fun.

This is such a tangent, but there is a short story by Claire Keegan about a failed relationship. At one point, the man is all excited to have his girlfriend move in with him. She’s really fun, and they have good sex, and she’s a good cook. But when she comes, she brings her clothes and toiletries and moves his things. He gets really upset. She’s like, “What did you think would happen? You didn’t think I would want to keep my toothbrush in the bathroom?”

I wonder if OP’s husband would relate to this. He’s all excited to have a wife and children, but then when he is asked to change and demands are placed on him, he gets kind of mad. And OP is like, “What did you think would happen?”

NP and this is a really fitting example because it matches what I experienced on the other side with someone like this. My passive/disengaged/workaholic/not-parenting ex moved out.

But he only took the usual suitcase he took on work trips to his new place and didn’t want anything else. When he finally came back to get possessions I had boxed up because seeing his everyday things (toothbrush, jeans, paper stack) after months of his absence was breaking the hearts of both me and the kids, he got really angry. Specifically angry that I moved his toothbrush. He said “you can’t do that!” and went into a crazy rage.

I second guessed myself and wasted money bringing it up in one of my attorney meetings. He echoed the novel quoted above: “what did he think would happen?”