What’s the end game plan for a cheating husband?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whyyyyyy do people defend cheating???

It seems like it’s so obvious that it hurts people but people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify it. He started it by being mean! I have sexual needs that weren’t being met! It’s okay because my spouse never found out!

Even if somebody is inclined to empathize with cheaters, how is there no consensus that cheating hurts people, it’s wrong to hurt people, so cheating is wrong?

I swear some of these people saying that cheating isn’t a big deal would also get up in arms about backing out of a social engagement or forgetting to send a written thank you card.

This analogy is spot on. We all feel hurt when those things (cheating or other ppl backing out social engagements or forgetting to send a thank you card) happen to us, yet we all make excuses for ourselves and expect to be forgiven when we do those things that hurt others. It's like all my single friends on dating apps have ghosted and been ghosted. Of course they feel upset when they are ghosted, but it doesn't stop them from ghosting people they are not interested in, and they feel justified to do so. It's just part of life.

Ultimately it depends on who has more opportunity to do those kinds of hurtful things. Like a hot girl on dating apps is much more likely to ghost others than being ghosted herself. Or a successful and attractive middle age man has more resource (money, social status, time away from home) to cheat than a SAHM. But let's admit it, we (regardless of gender) would all find it hard to resist the temptation if given the right opportunity. Men simply have more opportunities to cheat; that's it.[/b]
[b]
FWIW I'm a woman who have never cheated in 10 years of my marriage, and have not been cheated on to my best knowledge. But if it had happened I would just think of it as a matter of which of us was presented the opportunity first. Neither of us actively sought out cheating. But I don't pretend that I have the morality to turn down a (hypothetically) opportunity of having some good NSA sex with a very hot guy that my husband would never find out.

AHHH...NO. As a highly attractive woman, I have been hit on and propositioned my entire life. At the Office, at the gym, on the sidelines of a kids' soccer game. I have had every opportunity out there and I have never even kissed another man in the 26 years I have been with my husband. I also was hit on when I was a single woman by very successful and handsome married men, and I thought they were scum. I always thought 'how the hell could they do this to their wife? their kids?'. SO, some of us have morality and integrity and can have a million opportunities. Even if some divine power told me that I would never get caught, the guilt alone would eat me alive.

^^^Ditto!

Some of us have morals … some don’t. It’s not about opportunity!

[Anonymous]

The vast number of different responses and different outcomes shows there is not 'one game plan'. Everyone's story and situation is different. And, those men/women cheaters that never confess, kept lying, even to therapists---yes--sociopathic. Some people are serial cheaters, sex addicts and some have some crisis of conscience or something in midlife and deeply regret it, own it, get therapy and never do it again. Some actively confess before anyone even finds out.

I find it strange the focus on men when women are cheating in almost record numbers, especially in younger demographics. They now rival men in statistics. Game plan for them is always stated as: exit affair, marry up. Who knows. Nobody seems to victimize them on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whyyyyyy do people defend cheating???

It seems like it’s so obvious that it hurts people but people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify it. He started it by being mean! I have sexual needs that weren’t being met! It’s okay because my spouse never found out!

Even if somebody is inclined to empathize with cheaters, how is there no consensus that cheating hurts people, it’s wrong to hurt people, so cheating is wrong?

I swear some of these people saying that cheating isn’t a big deal would also get up in arms about backing out of a social engagement or forgetting to send a written thank you card.

This analogy is spot on. We all feel hurt when those things (cheating or other ppl backing out social engagements or forgetting to send a thank you card) happen to us, yet we all make excuses for ourselves and expect to be forgiven when we do those things that hurt others. It's like all my single friends on dating apps have ghosted and been ghosted. Of course they feel upset when they are ghosted, but it doesn't stop them from ghosting people they are not interested in, and they feel justified to do so. It's just part of life.

Ultimately it depends on who has more opportunity to do those kinds of hurtful things. Like a hot girl on dating apps is much more likely to ghost others than being ghosted herself. Or a successful and attractive middle age man has more resource (money, social status, time away from home) to cheat than a SAHM. But let's admit it, we (regardless of gender) would all find it hard to resist the temptation if given the right opportunity. Men simply have more opportunities to cheat; that's it.[/b]
[b]
FWIW I'm a woman who have never cheated in 10 years of my marriage, and have not been cheated on to my best knowledge. But if it had happened I would just think of it as a matter of which of us was presented the opportunity first. Neither of us actively sought out cheating. But I don't pretend that I have the morality to turn down a (hypothetically) opportunity of having some good NSA sex with a very hot guy that my husband would never find out.

AHHH...NO. As a highly attractive woman, I have been hit on and propositioned my entire life. At the Office, at the gym, on the sidelines of a kids' soccer game. I have had every opportunity out there and I have never even kissed another man in the 26 years I have been with my husband. I also was hit on when I was a single woman by very successful and handsome married men, and I thought they were scum. I always thought 'how the hell could they do this to their wife? their kids?'. SO, some of us have morality and integrity and can have a million opportunities. Even if some divine power told me that I would never get caught, the guilt alone would eat me alive.

^^^Ditto!

Some of us have morals … some don’t. It’s not about opportunity!

People with low self esteem and poor body image are more likely to cheat. Good morals, integrity and healthy self esteem make it less of an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have stated, every person is different and so is every marriage and every cheater.

From a woman, Alice Walker, that has written two books after interviewing countless users of Ashley Madison:

"Where a lack of sexual satisfaction at home motivates women to seek out affairs, men crave the emotional connection and support their spouse neglects to provide. For married women, their own orgasms and sexual pleasure motivated them, while for men hearing praise for their sexual prowess made men feel worthy and manly. It is the cry for external validation, particularly at a low point in middle age. Articulating that feeling of under-appreciation and asking, “Why aren’t you interested in me anymore?” can be a very hard thing to do. How did it come to this? An inequality of the division of household labor results in some long-held resentment on the part of their wives. Possibly it’s simply that household chores, her job and childcare dominated their wives’ time and energy, leaving nothing left for their husbands. Regardless, these men internalized the dynamics in those relationships as a condemnation of them and their masculinity. To them, their wives treat sex as a chore and lack all enthusiasm about it. Men internalize that disinterest as, “I’m not good enough” and “I’m a disappointment.” They feel undervalued not only as a sexual partner, but as a person. Their outside partners function as the person to whom they go for that praise and recognition. And more often than not, just one “monogamous” affair partner is all they need, unlike studies that show many married women, prefer to maintain several concurrent affairs."

A total disinterest in changing their home life exists as a common understanding between affair partners. That is, they prefer the life they share with their spouse. As I mentioned, these men carry a deep love for their wife and 96% of them have absolutely no interest in leaving the marriage. One participant says:

“[My outside partner and I] know that we do not desire a change in our primary partners. We are not ‘in love.’ We enjoy each other, thank each other, and go back to our lives. My wife is my best friend. I enjoy her immensely. Our personalities match well. Our goals are well aligned, as I believe are the goals of my outside partner.”

These men were in real pain before they decided to cheat, both from the neglect they were facing and the realization that the reality of marriage didn’t line up with their expectations. For many, part of that pain persists knowing that the woman who’s now satisfying their needs isn’t the one woman they ultimately want that satisfaction from: Their wife.

Would these men be happiest with just their wife? Contrary to the common “men can’t resist temptation” narrative, yes, they would be (most men actually enjoy monogamy and are often far less interested in the idea of an open marriage than women are). But circumstances change and reality sets in.

What I see here isn’t men who are victims. It’s men who cannot stand the discomfort of emotional vulnerability. “Asking ‘why aren’t you interested in me anymore’ is a very hard thing to do.” Well no shit. It’s hard for everybody! Grow up and do hard things. Go to therapy and talk to your wife. And if that doesn’t work evaluate whether or not the relationship is working for you.

I came to the same conclusion. BUT--I truly think it's the way men have been raised with 'toxic masculinity'. Men for generations were taught to deny their emotions, not to cry, not to do anything that could be considered 'unmanly'. They don't know what to do with their feelings let alone be vulnerable. And this has been the result for centuries,, just go bang another woman. That temporarily relieves the pain and is a shot to boost their manhood.

And a lot of women are attracted to other aspects of that same basic masculine stereotype. A lot of women marry men who are aggressive, selfish, stoic, brash because they like that they are popular, successful in competitive jobs, etc. But those qualities can make a bad transition to midlife.

LOL… you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have stated, every person is different and so is every marriage and every cheater.

From a woman, Alice Walker, that has written two books after interviewing countless users of Ashley Madison:

"Where a lack of sexual satisfaction at home motivates women to seek out affairs, men crave the emotional connection and support their spouse neglects to provide. For married women, their own orgasms and sexual pleasure motivated them, while for men hearing praise for their sexual prowess made men feel worthy and manly. It is the cry for external validation, particularly at a low point in middle age. Articulating that feeling of under-appreciation and asking, “Why aren’t you interested in me anymore?” can be a very hard thing to do. How did it come to this? An inequality of the division of household labor results in some long-held resentment on the part of their wives. Possibly it’s simply that household chores, her job and childcare dominated their wives’ time and energy, leaving nothing left for their husbands. Regardless, these men internalized the dynamics in those relationships as a condemnation of them and their masculinity. To them, their wives treat sex as a chore and lack all enthusiasm about it. Men internalize that disinterest as, “I’m not good enough” and “I’m a disappointment.” They feel undervalued not only as a sexual partner, but as a person. Their outside partners function as the person to whom they go for that praise and recognition. And more often than not, just one “monogamous” affair partner is all they need, unlike studies that show many married women, prefer to maintain several concurrent affairs."

A total disinterest in changing their home life exists as a common understanding between affair partners. That is, they prefer the life they share with their spouse. As I mentioned, these men carry a deep love for their wife and 96% of them have absolutely no interest in leaving the marriage. One participant says:

“[My outside partner and I] know that we do not desire a change in our primary partners. We are not ‘in love.’ We enjoy each other, thank each other, and go back to our lives. My wife is my best friend. I enjoy her immensely. Our personalities match well. Our goals are well aligned, as I believe are the goals of my outside partner.”

These men were in real pain before they decided to cheat, both from the neglect they were facing and the realization that the reality of marriage didn’t line up with their expectations. For many, part of that pain persists knowing that the woman who’s now satisfying their needs isn’t the one woman they ultimately want that satisfaction from: Their wife.

Would these men be happiest with just their wife? Contrary to the common “men can’t resist temptation” narrative, yes, they would be (most men actually enjoy monogamy and are often far less interested in the idea of an open marriage than women are). But circumstances change and reality sets in.

What I see here isn’t men who are victims. It’s men who cannot stand the discomfort of emotional vulnerability. “Asking ‘why aren’t you interested in me anymore’ is a very hard thing to do.” Well no shit. It’s hard for everybody! Grow up and do hard things. Go to therapy and talk to your wife. And if that doesn’t work evaluate whether or not the relationship is working for you.

I came to the same conclusion. BUT--I truly think it's the way men have been raised with 'toxic masculinity'. Men for generations were taught to deny their emotions, not to cry, not to do anything that could be considered 'unmanly'. They don't know what to do with their feelings let alone be vulnerable. And this has been the result for centuries,, just go bang another woman. That temporarily relieves the pain and is a shot to boost their manhood.

New poster. Sadly, BOTH the posts above in bold are true. Men need to do the hard thing and communicate, and men are (generally speaking) raised to suppress feelings and, I would add, raised without much emphasis on how or why to communicate, especially with women. Men need to become more conscious of how their upbringings have left them without the ability to articulate what they want and need, and then they need to get past that fear of vulnerability and communicate with the women they supposedly loved enough to commit to. But all that is easily said and difficult to do.
Raise your kids so that they understand the nature of commitment, the pain caused by cheating on a commitment, and most of all, the absolute necessity for communicating well with their spouses instead of seeking out validation based on the physical rather than the emotional.

[Anonymous]

To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

Do you see the irony in your post? Here is man expressing emotional vulnerability and a woman responds with essentially 'grow up, get over it'. JFC.

There is a wall he can't break through for whatever reason. OP, it could be hormone issues, it could be a thyroid related issue (some causes depression, anxiety, loss of libido), it could be a body image issue, it could be stress/work/childcare/etc, she could be having an affair (emotional or physical) herself, who knows?

The only thing I would suggest is that you need to be blunt, VERY blunt and with urgency if you have truly tried all of those things and can't through. Sit her down, tell her what you are going through--the physical and emotional intimacy you miss and aren't getting, ask what is wrong, if there is anything more she needs--help on the home front, etc., and basically say: I can't live like this. If we can't resolve this I will have to get it outside of the marriage and I don't want to do that. I only want you.

The fall out from her finding out about your cheating and the hurt is going to be a trillion times worse (epic proportions) than having this painful, hard conversation. But, you owe it to yourself, her and the kids to have this blunt conversation before going outside of the marriage. And since you already have, you need to get end it, get into individual therapy and talk this over with a professional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

Sounds like you want a pass for being a bad spouse. And it sounds like the PP you are responding to has found a solution to his problems. You can't have it both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

Do you see the irony in your post? Here is man expressing emotional vulnerability and a woman responds with essentially 'grow up, get over it'. JFC.

There is a wall he can't break through for whatever reason. OP, it could be hormone issues, it could be a thyroid related issue (some causes depression, anxiety, loss of libido), it could be a body image issue, it could be stress/work/childcare/etc, she could be having an affair (emotional or physical) herself, who knows?

The only thing I would suggest is that you need to be blunt, VERY blunt and with urgency if you have truly tried all of those things and can't through. Sit her down, tell her what you are going through--the physical and emotional intimacy you miss and aren't getting, ask what is wrong, if there is anything more she needs--help on the home front, etc., and basically say: I can't live like this. If we can't resolve this I will have to get it outside of the marriage and I don't want to do that. I only want you.

The fall out from her finding out about your cheating and the hurt is going to be a trillion times worse (epic proportions) than having this painful, hard conversation. But, you owe it to yourself, her and the kids to have this blunt conversation before going outside of the marriage. And since you already have, you need to get end it, get into individual therapy and talk this over with a professional.

If the guy is true that he's raised it repeatedly for a decade, why isn't that enough? And why does he need to talk to a professional?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

Do you see the irony in your post? Here is man expressing emotional vulnerability and a woman responds with essentially 'grow up, get over it'. JFC.

There is a wall he can't break through for whatever reason. OP, it could be hormone issues, it could be a thyroid related issue (some causes depression, anxiety, loss of libido), it could be a body image issue, it could be stress/work/childcare/etc, she could be having an affair (emotional or physical) herself, who knows?

The only thing I would suggest is that you need to be blunt, VERY blunt and with urgency if you have truly tried all of those things and can't through. Sit her down, tell her what you are going through--the physical and emotional intimacy you miss and aren't getting, ask what is wrong, if there is anything more she needs--help on the home front, etc., and basically say: I can't live like this. If we can't resolve this I will have to get it outside of the marriage and I don't want to do that. I only want you.

The fall out from her finding out about your cheating and the hurt is going to be a trillion times worse (epic proportions) than having this painful, hard conversation. But, you owe it to yourself, her and the kids to have this blunt conversation before going outside of the marriage. And since you already have, you need to get end it, get into individual therapy and talk this over with a professional.

Are you a woman? If so, you are chastising me because I am not coddling a man's feelings, and that feeds into the exact same cycle that is causing these issues in the first place. Men don't like to deal with negative feelings so we all tiptoe around men so they don't have negative feelings, and then they have a hard time learning to deal with them in the first place.

Sometimes people need to be told to get a grip on themselves. Sometimes that is the appropriate response to an expression of emotion. I trust that this guy is an adult who can handle what I, a random internet commenter, said to him.

Your advice is good, though. I would add that PP could benefit from therapy, too. And I don't say this as an insult like some people do, everybody at some point in their life could benefit from therapy but especially someone in a marriage that has been struggling for so long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

Do you see the irony in your post? Here is man expressing emotional vulnerability and a woman responds with essentially 'grow up, get over it'. JFC.

There is a wall he can't break through for whatever reason. OP, it could be hormone issues, it could be a thyroid related issue (some causes depression, anxiety, loss of libido), it could be a body image issue, it could be stress/work/childcare/etc, she could be having an affair (emotional or physical) herself, who knows?

The only thing I would suggest is that you need to be blunt, VERY blunt and with urgency if you have truly tried all of those things and can't through. Sit her down, tell her what you are going through--the physical and emotional intimacy you miss and aren't getting, ask what is wrong, if there is anything more she needs--help on the home front, etc., and basically say: I can't live like this. If we can't resolve this I will have to get it outside of the marriage and I don't want to do that. I only want you.

The fall out from her finding out about your cheating and the hurt is going to be a trillion times worse (epic proportions) than having this painful, hard conversation. But, you owe it to yourself, her and the kids to have this blunt conversation before going outside of the marriage. And since you already have, you need to get end it, get into individual therapy and talk this over with a professional.

Are you a woman? If so, you are chastising me because I am not coddling a man's feelings, and that feeds into the exact same cycle that is causing these issues in the first place. Men don't like to deal with negative feelings so we all tiptoe around men so they don't have negative feelings, and then they have a hard time learning to deal with them in the first place.

Sometimes people need to be told to get a grip on themselves. Sometimes that is the appropriate response to an expression of emotion. I trust that this guy is an adult who can handle what I, a random internet commenter, said to him.

Your advice is good, though. I would add that PP could benefit from therapy, too. And I don't say this as an insult like some people do, everybody at some point in their life could benefit from therapy but especially someone in a marriage that has been struggling for so long.

OMG I'm so sorry I didn't see the part where you said he should get therapy. Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

Do you see the irony in your post? Here is man expressing emotional vulnerability and a woman responds with essentially 'grow up, get over it'. JFC.

There is a wall he can't break through for whatever reason. OP, it could be hormone issues, it could be a thyroid related issue (some causes depression, anxiety, loss of libido), it could be a body image issue, it could be stress/work/childcare/etc, she could be having an affair (emotional or physical) herself, who knows?

The only thing I would suggest is that you need to be blunt, VERY blunt and with urgency if you have truly tried all of those things and can't through. Sit her down, tell her what you are going through--the physical and emotional intimacy you miss and aren't getting, ask what is wrong, if there is anything more she needs--help on the home front, etc., and basically say: I can't live like this. If we can't resolve this I will have to get it outside of the marriage and I don't want to do that. I only want you.

The fall out from her finding out about your cheating and the hurt is going to be a trillion times worse (epic proportions) than having this painful, hard conversation. But, you owe it to yourself, her and the kids to have this blunt conversation before going outside of the marriage. And since you already have, you need to get end it, get into individual therapy and talk this over with a professional.

Are you a woman? If so, you are chastising me because I am not coddling a man's feelings, and that feeds into the exact same cycle that is causing these issues in the first place. Men don't like to deal with negative feelings so we all tiptoe around men so they don't have negative feelings, and then they have a hard time learning to deal with them in the first place.

Sometimes people need to be told to get a grip on themselves. Sometimes that is the appropriate response to an expression of emotion. I trust that this guy is an adult who can handle what I, a random internet commenter, said to him.

Your advice is good, though. I would add that PP could benefit from therapy, too. And I don't say this as an insult like some people do, everybody at some point in their life could benefit from therapy but especially someone in a marriage that has been struggling for so long.

So you think telling someone "get over yourself" is a healthy and normal response to someone giving an honest statement about their thoughts and feelings? Are you married?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

Do you see the irony in your post? Here is man expressing emotional vulnerability and a woman responds with essentially 'grow up, get over it'. JFC.

There is a wall he can't break through for whatever reason. OP, it could be hormone issues, it could be a thyroid related issue (some causes depression, anxiety, loss of libido), it could be a body image issue, it could be stress/work/childcare/etc, she could be having an affair (emotional or physical) herself, who knows?

The only thing I would suggest is that you need to be blunt, VERY blunt and with urgency if you have truly tried all of those things and can't through. Sit her down, tell her what you are going through--the physical and emotional intimacy you miss and aren't getting, ask what is wrong, if there is anything more she needs--help on the home front, etc., and basically say: I can't live like this. If we can't resolve this I will have to get it outside of the marriage and I don't want to do that. I only want you.

The fall out from her finding out about your cheating and the hurt is going to be a trillion times worse (epic proportions) than having this painful, hard conversation. But, you owe it to yourself, her and the kids to have this blunt conversation before going outside of the marriage. And since you already have, you need to get end it, get into individual therapy and talk this over with a professional.

Are you a woman? If so, you are chastising me because I am not coddling a man's feelings, and that feeds into the exact same cycle that is causing these issues in the first place. Men don't like to deal with negative feelings so we all tiptoe around men so they don't have negative feelings, and then they have a hard time learning to deal with them in the first place.

Sometimes people need to be told to get a grip on themselves. Sometimes that is the appropriate response to an expression of emotion. I trust that this guy is an adult who can handle what I, a random internet commenter, said to him.

Your advice is good, though. I would add that PP could benefit from therapy, too. And I don't say this as an insult like some people do, everybody at some point in their life could benefit from therapy but especially someone in a marriage that has been struggling for so long.

So you think telling someone "get over yourself" is a healthy and normal response to someone giving an honest statement about their thoughts and feelings? Are you married?

+1 yes, I was a woman. And I still think her post was a perfect example of why men don't want to express any vulnerability. They basically get called a p*ssy by women and told to deal. Forget having any discourse or empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs, above, I am a man, and I admit I have all those traits women value - tall, attractive, outspoken, charming, professionally successful, etc. And I raised the issue of sexual rejection repeatedly for years, like a decade. I bought the books (come as you are, etc), tried to articulate physical touch as my love language. I could give you 15 examples of being proactive and at least partially vulnerable with my wife.

And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse.

So my choices are: 1) remain faithful and miserable; 2) divorce and hurt the kids, our finances, social standing; or 3) find someone in a similar situation, stay married and sane and if I get caught, I am at worse where I would be with option 2.

tl;dr sometimes men do open up and still face rejection. Not all women who are cheated on are victims or blameless.

Oh please. Get over yourself. So you tried, it failed. That happens to literally everybody, in every facet of life. This is the whole point of emotional vulnerability: you won't always get what you want. If you did, it wouldn't be vulnerable! Nobody who is advocating for men to have more emotional intelligence is saying it's going to be the solution to your problems.

Do you see the irony in your post? Here is man expressing emotional vulnerability and a woman responds with essentially 'grow up, get over it'. JFC.

There is a wall he can't break through for whatever reason. OP, it could be hormone issues, it could be a thyroid related issue (some causes depression, anxiety, loss of libido), it could be a body image issue, it could be stress/work/childcare/etc, she could be having an affair (emotional or physical) herself, who knows?

The only thing I would suggest is that you need to be blunt, VERY blunt and with urgency if you have truly tried all of those things and can't through. Sit her down, tell her what you are going through--the physical and emotional intimacy you miss and aren't getting, ask what is wrong, if there is anything more she needs--help on the home front, etc., and basically say: I can't live like this. If we can't resolve this I will have to get it outside of the marriage and I don't want to do that. I only want you.

The fall out from her finding out about your cheating and the hurt is going to be a trillion times worse (epic proportions) than having this painful, hard conversation. But, you owe it to yourself, her and the kids to have this blunt conversation before going outside of the marriage. And since you already have, you need to get end it, get into individual therapy and talk this over with a professional.

Are you a woman? If so, you are chastising me because I am not coddling a man's feelings, and that feeds into the exact same cycle that is causing these issues in the first place. Men don't like to deal with negative feelings so we all tiptoe around men so they don't have negative feelings, and then they have a hard time learning to deal with them in the first place.

Sometimes people need to be told to get a grip on themselves. Sometimes that is the appropriate response to an expression of emotion. I trust that this guy is an adult who can handle what I, a random internet commenter, said to him.

Your advice is good, though. I would add that PP could benefit from therapy, too. And I don't say this as an insult like some people do, everybody at some point in their life could benefit from therapy but especially someone in a marriage that has been struggling for so long.

So you think telling someone "get over yourself" is a healthy and normal response to someone giving an honest statement about their thoughts and feelings? Are you married?

+1 yes, I was a woman. And I still think her post was a perfect example of why men don't want to express any vulnerability. They basically get called a p*ssy by women and told to deal. Forget having any discourse or empathy.

Plus 1, this is why men don't talk about the distress that a lack of sexual affection causes. So many women, including this PP, have the reaction of "deal with it" or "your penis needs attention? Waaaaa!"

The idea you can raise a point repeatedly and be shut out of solutions, well at that point, I don't know I would tell my spouse I am now seeking it elsewhere. That sounds a lot like the open marriage guy. If your spouse is begging for affection and you refuse him/her, repeatedly, I am not that sympathetic to you getting cheated on. What do you think its going to happen?