Frustrated with cheap brother

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just go without him. It sounds like you are trying to include everyone in what you want to do and he doesn't really care.

Pick a time that is just impossible for him, treat your parents from just you. Tell your parents this works best for your family to do something with your parents.

He can do his own thing with his parents separately, and your not stuck paying for his dinner.

I have a feeling he won't even care.

My parents are the ones that won’t go without him. They always make sure we make plans for when he can be there and then they pay for him.

OP, it sounds like you only have two real options. One is continuing to let your parents cover part of the cost. Or you could consider it a gift of love to your parents and just pay for him (if you can afford it). In the second scenario, it's funding him, but not for his sake, for theirs.

Or you can continue to make your parents and your brother agree with you, but at this point that doesn't seem likely. They have made it clear that they won't go unless he's invited too, and he's made it clear that he won't pay.

It sounds annoying and hurtful to you that he has these views, but as others have pointed out, he doesn't owe your kids any presents. It's sad when people don't have the same interest in connection that you do, but you're going to have to grieve anything you have to grieve, and then adjust your expectations.

[Anonymous]

OP I get you. My BIL and his family are moochers too. Every time we go out to eat with my DH’s family, were either expected to pay, or my MIL hands my DH the bill with a credit card for “her half.” If we ever try to do something for his parents alone, they manipulate the situation into including his brother’s family. It’s beyond frustrating. Yes, we have no control over how they choose to spend their money. But if we pay for them, and they turn around and pay for brother’s family, then essentially we have just paid for brother’s family. They are unwilling to exclude them, so sadly we just do less with them. They have enabled this 42 yo man child (who, not surprisingly, has money to go out on his own if we decide we’re not interested in going out and paying). All you can do is drop the rope. My MIL is annoyed they see us less, but she made her choices.

[Anonymous]

He’s a cheap bastard and learn to live with it. Whatever you do don’t send him gifts because that will really make you crazy. Expect nothing from him and then if he does anything it will be a pleasant surprise.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My brothers don't split stuff. We don't do $150 pp dinner level things, but basically when something comes from "the kids" my parents know it's me. Or I say it's me and don't pretend it was a joint effort sometimes. I just don't try to pay for stuff I can't afford on my own for them. I don't really understand why this can't happen here.

Goodness, I wish homespun women like you would stop covering for useless men like your brothers.

You are an adult. Operate as an adult, not a mommy-figure to other grown-ass adults. You are treating your, what 30 or 40something brothers like they are children. Like when I buy my husband a birthday card or gift "from" my 2-year-old.

I'm not going out and buying three presents for my parents and writing "from brother 1" and "from brother 2!" I'm dealing independently with my parents, getting them what I can afford, and not spending a lot of time worrying whether others kick in equal amounts or making sure I am given full credit for every unattributed surprise (my parents know). I don't see how spending my emotional energy trying to make my brothers do and care about the same things is MORE adult than basically doing my own thing.

Oh, my God. If your brothers wanted to mark milestones with gifts, they would. They CHOOSE NOT TO. You somehow think in your female wisdom that you know better than them what should and must be done, for whom, and when, and how. So you keep up a pretend fantasy game that apparently your parents are also invested in, rather than just facing the reality that THEY CHOOSE NOT TO DO THE THINGS YOU DO.

Do you also write checks to charities you think they support in their name? Do you sign them up for email newsletters you think they should get? Have you purchased burial plots next to your parents because that's what you think they should do?

Ugh, stop. You are setting women back, again, some more.

I am seriously confused, I said i am NOT getting gifts and marking them with my brother's names or doing a pretend fantasy game, what is the issue here? I mean the equivalent would be, for OP's example, setting up a small dinner party for my parents on the budget *I* could afford and not saying my brothers have to pitch in equally or it's not happening. I just would make the message "happy anniversary Mom and Dad," not "happt anniversary FROM ME ONLY," because milestones are not about making sure they know which kids are good and which are slackers, they are about the parents.

You are getting a gift--let's say it is a $100 restaurant gift card. That's nice.

But you are SAYING it is from you and your brothers...which...no, it's not. They didn't agree to it, they didn't care, they didn't chip in, they didn't particpate. And you are pretending they did.

You are essentially saying...my way is so right that I am ignoring their ADULT CHOICE not to acknowledge this anniversary with a gift that I am OVERRIDING that choice and saying this gift is from them, when it isn't.

If. Your. Brothers. Wanted. To. Give. Gifts. They. Would.

You are not in charge of them. And yet somehow you feel so in charge of them that you are invoking their name and participation for something they didn't do. It's bizzzare.

I'm not putting anyone else's name on anything, i just said that two times. I'm also not making a big deal about what other people DON'T do, though, or insisting that i get credit for every surprise gift or gesture (not everything is a physical gift with a label). My parents aren't idiots, if I sent out invitations and hosted a dinner party it would obviously be my effort, but I wouldn't complain to them about my brothers not helping or say it's off unless they contributed equally either, I'd just keep it at a manageable scale.

I think it is bizarre for adults to make their gifts contingent on what other adults do.

OP, I’m a NP, but it seems you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You’re making YOUR contribution decisions based on what your brother is doing, so are you bizarre?

If you wanted to have a dinner party for your parents, why didn’t you just host one? I’m assuming your brother would e attendee anyway, so what difference does it make if he split the costs? Likewise dinner.

You know that your brother is frugal, and specifically does not value spending money on food and restaurants, yet you’ve tried to corner him into spending money on exactly those things, twice.

You honestly sound a little judgmental and controlling over your brothers finances. Do your children really need gifts? Is he an involved uncle? Then, I would say respect and understand his time and effort is enough. Is e not involved at all? Then I would say the expectation of a gift is even more weird.

I think if you can get your head out of your brothers wallet, you’ll be much happier. It’s been said on this thread already: you are not the same person. He doesn’t value gifts and spending money in the same ways you do. He doesn’t feel the need to “do it for the parents” like you do. Stop making it about what YOU think is best, and let him do his own thing.

I'm the PP you quoted but I'm not OP, that's why it seems contradictory! OP seems invested in brother doing his share, i understand the frustration but that seems exhausting. Sometimes you just have to lower your expectations and keep moving. (Which i am able to do 95% of the time, but i will admit I occasionally get mad at one of my brothers, holiday travel planning is my sore spot.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, spending money on other people and buying gifts is not his love language. Or the love language of many, many other people. Stop projecting what YOU want, onto him. Just because it means something to you and that's what you want, is not necessarily what other people value.

Does he do other things? Does help do things for others (that don't involve money)? Does he listen and engage with your kids? On things non-money related, is he quite kind?

I understand where you're coming from with your comment. But the thing is, OP's brother participates in the dining out at restaurants, but EXPECTS other members of his family to cover his share. That's not an OK thing to do to a family member. If he doesn't think stuff restaurants are necessary, that's perfectly fine and he should just stay home. It comes across as manipulative, however, when he says he doesn't like stuff restaurants and THEN says, "Wellllll, if someone else is going to pay my way, then I guess I'm in!" He seems to be fully aware that his parents want him there; after all, he's their son. But he's figured this out and is using it to score a free meal each time, and that is a shame.

This is the best answer so far. I don't think OP has unreasonable expectations at all.

The brother seems like an entitled mooch and very rude. I wouldn't invite him to food-related things and would definitely let my parents know that I wanted to see them just us. Are your parents able to subsidize this? If it doesn't endanger their finances I'd say something once but would definitely think less of him-and them, too, for letting him take advantage of them with blatantly poor behavior. Their money is ultimately theirs like others have noted...but you are free to judge unequal and poor behavior as well since it is unfair to the rest of the family.

I had a relative like this. Never changed and moved to mooching off his siblings when the parents passed away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will be the lone voice of dissension. Your brother is trash.

You’re not alone. Totally agree. I think OP just struck a nerve with a bunch of spoiled millennials who still gladly accept handouts from their parents so they’re up in arms because this argument is proxy for their own situations. OP, why don’t you just tell your brother that because he’s so selfish and cheap you really can’t respect him and just stop making plans with him. He sounds like a man child. Sounds like family events that involve any sort of purchase are tense and totally unfun. So just stop. And while you’re at it tell your parents to stop prioritizing and accommodating the son they were unable to raise into a decent person over you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be the lone voice of dissension. Your brother is trash.

You’re not alone. Totally agree. I think OP just struck a nerve with a bunch of spoiled millennials who still gladly accept handouts from their parents so they’re up in arms because this argument is proxy for their own situations. OP, why don’t you just tell your brother that because he’s so selfish and cheap you really can’t respect him and just stop making plans with him. He sounds like a man child. Sounds like family events that involve any sort of purchase are tense and totally unfun. So just stop. And while you’re at it tell your parents to stop prioritizing and accommodating the son they were unable to raise into a decent person over you.

I've been one of the biggest "just leave your brother alone" posters, and you have it so wrong. I was born in 1979, HAVE NEVER taken or asked for handouts or gotten major support/gifts/loans from my parents or ILs, and pay my own way for family vacations and they like. If anything, my husband and I treat our parents to dinners and such a lot in recognition of the good family dynamics they created for us. Just got back from vacation and bought a huge pizza dinner for my whole extended family, my treat, because it was great to see them and just easier for one person to pay rather than, "Well, you have 3 kids so your family's total is X." You are so wrong.

MY POINT is that grown-ass adults are in charge of themselves. Stay in your lane.

1) How your parents spend their money is literally none of your business
2) How your brother spends or doesn't spend his money, ***and his relationship/family dynamics with others*** is none of your business
3) Do your thing. Your own, independent thing. Don't make plans with your brother's wallet and what he "should" be doing in mind; just make your plans
4) If something is clearly not working the way you want it to, LET IT GO. Don't keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result...we all know what that is, now don't we?

[Anonymous]

Of course and uncle should buy gifts for his niece and nephew when attending their birthday party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will be the lone voice of dissension. Your brother is trash.

agreed

I don’t know your parents financial situation but your brother won’t help as they age and he will be the main one with his hand out for any inheritance. I hope they aren’t spending money they will later need.

[Anonymous]

I will never understand adults expecting other adults (even close family) to give them lavish gifts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be the lone voice of dissension. Your brother is trash.

You’re not alone. Totally agree. I think OP just struck a nerve with a bunch of spoiled millennials who still gladly accept handouts from their parents so they’re up in arms because this argument is proxy for their own situations. OP, why don’t you just tell your brother that because he’s so selfish and cheap you really can’t respect him and just stop making plans with him. He sounds like a man child. Sounds like family events that involve any sort of purchase are tense and totally unfun. So just stop. And while you’re at it tell your parents to stop prioritizing and accommodating the son they were unable to raise into a decent person over you.

+one more. I am shocked by how many people are attacking OP here. This is coming from DCUM population which supposedly is all for "individualistic" independent lifestyle starting right around when one turns 18 yrs old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be the lone voice of dissension. Your brother is trash.

You’re not alone. Totally agree. I think OP just struck a nerve with a bunch of spoiled millennials who still gladly accept handouts from their parents so they’re up in arms because this argument is proxy for their own situations. OP, why don’t you just tell your brother that because he’s so selfish and cheap you really can’t respect him and just stop making plans with him. He sounds like a man child. Sounds like family events that involve any sort of purchase are tense and totally unfun. So just stop. And while you’re at it tell your parents to stop prioritizing and accommodating the son they were unable to raise into a decent person over you.

I've been one of the biggest "just leave your brother alone" posters, and you have it so wrong. I was born in 1979, HAVE NEVER taken or asked for handouts or gotten major support/gifts/loans from my parents or ILs, and pay my own way for family vacations and they like. If anything, my husband and I treat our parents to dinners and such a lot in recognition of the good family dynamics they created for us. Just got back from vacation and bought a huge pizza dinner for my whole extended family, my treat, because it was great to see them and just easier for one person to pay rather than, "Well, you have 3 kids so your family's total is X." You are so wrong.

MY POINT is that grown-ass adults are in charge of themselves. Stay in your lane.

1) How your parents spend their money is literally none of your business
2) How your brother spends or doesn't spend his money, ***and his relationship/family dynamics with others*** is none of your business
3) Do your thing. Your own, independent thing. Don't make plans with your brother's wallet and what he "should" be doing in mind; just make your plans
4) If something is clearly not working the way you want it to, LET IT GO. Don't keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result...we all know what that is, now don't we?

Listen. Paying for a few pizzas for extended family is not the same as taking the whole family and paying for everyone at a nice restaurant for a nice dinner.
I am sure if they were going to a pizza place OP wouldn't even think about making it an issue and paid for the damn pizzas for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be the lone voice of dissension. Your brother is trash.

agreed

I don’t know your parents financial situation but your brother won’t help as they age and he will be the main one with his hand out for any inheritance. I hope they aren’t spending money they will later need.

exactly this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband has similar tendencies, except he does split bills in restaurants because he knows it looks bad otherwise. Otherwise no gifts or much “consumable” entertainment at all. He prefers to invest in other things: for example, his kids’ education, the education of a relative in our home country we’ve never even met, stock options, real estate...

I have no problem with it. Gifts are not necessary.

How sad to be that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be the lone voice of dissension. Your brother is trash.

You’re not alone. Totally agree. I think OP just struck a nerve with a bunch of spoiled millennials who still gladly accept handouts from their parents so they’re up in arms because this argument is proxy for their own situations. OP, why don’t you just tell your brother that because he’s so selfish and cheap you really can’t respect him and just stop making plans with him. He sounds like a man child. Sounds like family events that involve any sort of purchase are tense and totally unfun. So just stop. And while you’re at it tell your parents to stop prioritizing and accommodating the son they were unable to raise into a decent person over you.

+one more. I am shocked by how many people are attacking OP here. This is coming from DCUM population which supposedly is all for "individualistic" independent lifestyle starting right around when one turns 18 yrs old.

No one is attacking OP. she is upset that her brother is not conforming to her specific desires, and people are pointing out that she shouldn’t worry about what her parents are paying for.

I’m a gen X With younger millennial brothers. I let my family worry about their own finances. If I want to pay for myself / my family, because I have been an independent adult for 20 years, I do exactly that. If my brothers want my mom to pay for them, well, they can do that, too. It doesn’t change what I’m doing.