DH friendships with women - what's your comfort level

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine your DH has struck up friendships with the staff at a neighborhood bookstore that he frequents. A lot of the staff happen to be young women. What's your comfort level, roughly?

1. he goes to the store frequently and they chat
2. he has exchanged phone numbers and they text
3. he meets up with them socially (without you present)
4. he invites them over to your home

Or some other "level" I am not articulating here.

Where are you cool with it? Where are you irked?

My DH frequents a local coffee shop and chats with the workers there. When we are out walking, they have beeped and waved. He has gotten to know them, so on one of our weekend morning walks, said he wanted all of us to walk to the coffee shop so his acquaintances could meet us (his wife and daughter). If he decided he wanted more of a friendship with them, he would ask me how I felt about having them over, or he would ask me if he could have a night "off" kid/home duty so he could grab a drink with them.

The thing is, I would be a part of the loop. He wanted me to meet them. Is your DH doing all of this secretively? It would be very, very strange if DH had any of them over to our house when I wasn't home, and without mentioning it to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
To quote from one of OP's early posts, "He has phone numbers for a couple of them as they have offered to babysit DC." How did it come about that they offered to babysit DC? Because this older married guy kept hanging around the bookstore and chatting them up, and then he glommed onto them one day at closing and asking if they minded if he came along to wherever they were headed. That was the beer they grabbed together. As they sat in the bar together, with a weird vibe, one of them asked pointedly, "So where's your wife?" He said, "Home with our kid."

On other evenings at the bookstore he had the same answer, she's home with our kid. So finally they said to him, "We can babysit for you! Then you can go out with your wife." He ran with that and said, "Sure, why don't I get your numbers." So now he has their numbers and texts them. In the beginning it was actually about babysitting, but now he texts them about how their dates went, where they are going to be.

They don't dislike him per se. He's an entertaining enough guy, and it gives them something to talk about during slow times at the bookstore. They don't consider whether he's attractive or not since he's this older married dad. They hope that his behavior while odd is innocent, that he won't cross the line.

OP here. This could be a pretty accurate picture. I think he enjoys feeling young around them and hearing about their dates, etc. But regardless of what the staff think of DH, I am not comfortable with this pattern continuing. Too bad I still cant work up the guts to initiate the conversation. I'm scared of the blowback that makes me out to be a wet blanket (though I have never ever asked him to limit his social life in any way up to now) or of DH confessing something really hurtful.

I just paid our visa bill this morning. the charge from Sat night at the bar was over $90. and he didnt get to the bar until 10pm. and the only person he said who joined him there was Jen. So he either bought a bunch of drinks for Jen or got really generous with his unknown fellow boxing fans.

I know I need to say something tonight. Dreading it.

OP, perhaps you can begin your discussion by mentioning the Visa bill. "So I was paying the Visa bill this morning and I saw that the charge from Saturday night was over $90. What did you buy? Was that for you and Jen? Did you buy her drinks or some food at the bar?" If he says that yes, he treated Jen, you could say that seems really strange to you because that makes it like a date. He was at a bar with a single woman on Saturday night and bought her food and drinks. You just aren't comfortable with that, you could say. Then from there you could say that the whole thing makes you uncomfortable, and that it's probably making the bookstore women uncomfortable too since they offered to babysit so he could go out with his wife.

At least the Visa bill would be a way to begin, and it's very legitimate to be concerned about where family resources are going. I understand your discomfort at possibly seeming like a wet blanket wanting to limit his social life. I would be uncomfortable as well. I don't think you can tell other adults what to do. I think you can only share your perspective and see what he says from there. And then you make your decisions from there.

Prepare in advance for how you'll react in various scenarios. What will you say if he says he bought the bar a round of drinks? What if he treated Jen, but he says it's no big deal and you're being ridiculous? What if he says he needs to have some fun going out since you never want to go anywhere?

Good luck, OP. Let us know how it goes!

+1. Good advice here. That's crazy $90... it does make it seem like a date!! I mean I wouldn't be comfortable with any of it, but especially now if he bought food/drinks to a tune of $90.

[Anonymous]

PP here: Not counting my female relatives of course.

[Anonymous]

Not counting female relatives of course.

[Anonymous]

OP here.
How do i respond if he says he thinks this is all totally normal and kosher? That I'm just over reacting? I highly doubt he'll just suddenly agree and say "gee, i didn't think about it like that, i'm sorry I was being disrespectful."

One angle I have thought of is encouraging him to ask his married/parent friends if they do anything comparable to this. "Do you think Bill goes and meets 23 year old single women on saturday night without nancy?" "How do you think Dave and Susie handle socializing with new single friends?"

Any other suggestions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
How do i respond if he says he thinks this is all totally normal and kosher? That I'm just over reacting? I highly doubt he'll just suddenly agree and say "gee, i didn't think about it like that, i'm sorry I was being disrespectful."

One angle I have thought of is encouraging him to ask his married/parent friends if they do anything comparable to this. "Do you think Bill goes and meets 23 year old single women on saturday night without nancy?" "How do you think Dave and Susie handle socializing with new single friends?"

Any other suggestions?

The comparison thing won't work because every marriage and every person is different. My husband has no female friends. I have many male friends. Not just acquaintances, but go to lunch and every so often go out for a drink, communicate a couple times a month male friends. I wish my husband had female friends. He accepts my friendships with men because almost all of them predate him, he knows them or about all of them, and my behavior is consistent vis a vis these friends. Is this a change for your DH?

[Anonymous]

OP, I think your gut is telling you the answer to your questions here. The longer you let this type of behavior go un-discussed the farther down the road he will go with it. You have the right to have boundaries and he shouldn't be testing to see where those boundaries are. It is not affectionate behavior to see how far someone you care about will let you go. Ideally, he would carefully consider your feelings before forming attachments to other females. No one is saying guys cannot have female friends, but spending $90 on a "friend" at night at a bar is a date. Don't let him or anyone else make you feel bad for thinking otherwise.

You should understand that if he doesn't like you clearly articulating your boundaries, he will likely take it "private" ... but that was a clear possibility even if you say nothing.

Just remember ... a loving spouse will always put your emotional comfort ahead of any wish he might have for companionship at a bar at night.

[Anonymous]

11:31 again. I guess I should add that my spouse began acting this way about 10 years into our marriage. I was dubious that it was okay but didn't want to seem like a controlling, unreasonable wife. Fast forward to 30 years of marriage and we are heading for divorce because I have finally decided that I deserve honesty and fidelity after too many years of lies and deceit. That is 20 years I cannot get back. I would hate for you to end up in the same place. Make it very clear what your boundaries are. If he loves you, he will gladly comply. If he feels unhappy with having to act married when he IS married, it is best for both of you to understand that sooner rather than later. Good luck ... I know it is unpleasant.

[Anonymous]

OP, you seem really worried that your DH will steamroller you and make you feel bad for the feelings you have, and that somehow you are the one with the issue here. You are trying way too hard to be the "cool wife" but what you reallly need to do is address head on why your husband is spending his free time and the family's money on going out with younger women. You absolutely have the right to bring it up. I would ignore the posters here who are trying to make you out as paranoid. This is not having independent friendships, this is going out late at night drinking with single women. And I would not assume that "jen" or whomever thinks he is a harmless, creepy dad. There are plenty of young women who are taken with older men and the thrill of someone who is married even more so. Plus, the fact that he goes out when his wife is at home with the kid sends the signal that he is free to do what he wants, hell maybe he is even intimating you have an open relationship.

I think you must take him aside and say: I feel that you're behavior is inappropriate and crosses boundaries. It makes me uncomforable and more than that, it makes me sad that you would rather spend time with new, female acquaintances than with me. I would like you to stop going out at night with these friends without inviting me along.

At the end of the day, even if he thinks there's "nothing wrong with it," (and he will do this and try to make you feel like you're the issue) in a marriage the feelings of his wife should take precedence over a new friendship with a random woman. You may have to ask him point blank if going out with new friends is more important than nurturing the relationship with his wife and if he is willing to hurt you in order to satisfy this need he evidently has to socialize. When he pushes back and says that you're being paranoid and jealous, you ask him "well, then how about we hang with them together." You certainly should say that it is inappropriate after a date night that he goes on another date and at the very least, it suggests to other women that he is available and looking because sorry, a married man who is drinking at a bar at 11 pm at night with a single woman with his wife at home with a kid is a married man looking for action. He may very well be fooling himself about this, but deep down he probably knows this is inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
How do i respond if he says he thinks this is all totally normal and kosher? That I'm just over reacting? I highly doubt he'll just suddenly agree and say "gee, i didn't think about it like that, i'm sorry I was being disrespectful."

One angle I have thought of is encouraging him to ask his married/parent friends if they do anything comparable to this. "Do you think Bill goes and meets 23 year old single women on saturday night without nancy?" "How do you think Dave and Susie handle socializing with new single friends?"

Any other suggestions?

OP, let's put aside the shenanigans with these young bookstore women.

To me, spending $90.00 dollars out drinking at a bar (without you his wife along for the fun) in itself, by itself, is completely unconscionable. This wasn't some special event like his old buddies he hasn't seen in years come to town etc. This is just him deciding to waste $90.00 in a bar for whatever reason.

Completely unacceptable. Unless $90.00 is meaningless to you. It's not meaningless to me and not to most people unless they have a pretty high income.

And like the man said, if he is out with "Jen" spending $90.00 then he is obviously trying to get her drunk enough so that she would at least be susceptible to letting down her boundaries and escalating it to the overtly sexual. Unfortunately there is no other explanation, period. The only reason he even told you about Jen is because he has you brainwashed to think it's all innocuous.

The one positive spin on this is your husband probably has no game at all. So from the girls' perspective he is just some creepy loser and they can get unlimited free drinks from him. If he had any game at all he wouldn't need to spend $90.00 getting "Jen" drunk." Of course the line could be crossed at any time so it has to stop even if nothing physical has happened yet.

Probably one of the reasons you have such difficulty accepting that your husband is actively cheating on you and at least has an inappropriate emotional relationship with one or more of these women, is that he IS kind of a dork, so you can't actually imagine him successfully getting into Jen's pants.

Even dorks get lucky once in a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you seem really worried that your DH will steamroller you and make you feel bad for the feelings you have, and that somehow you are the one with the issue here. You are trying way too hard to be the "cool wife" but what you reallly need to do is address head on why your husband is spending his free time and the family's money on going out with younger women. You absolutely have the right to bring it up. I would ignore the posters here who are trying to make you out as paranoid. This is not having independent friendships, this is going out late at night drinking with single women. And I would not assume that "jen" or whomever thinks he is a harmless, creepy dad. There are plenty of young women who are taken with older men and the thrill of someone who is married even more so. Plus, the fact that he goes out when his wife is at home with the kid sends the signal that he is free to do what he wants, hell maybe he is even intimating you have an open relationship.

I think you must take him aside and say: I feel that you're behavior is inappropriate and crosses boundaries. It makes me uncomforable and more than that, it makes me sad that you would rather spend time with new, female acquaintances than with me. I would like you to stop going out at night with these friends without inviting me along.

At the end of the day, even if he thinks there's "nothing wrong with it," (and he will do this and try to make you feel like you're the issue) in a marriage the feelings of his wife should take precedence over a new friendship with a random woman. You may have to ask him point blank if going out with new friends is more important than nurturing the relationship with his wife and if he is willing to hurt you in order to satisfy this need he evidently has to socialize. When he pushes back and says that you're being paranoid and jealous, you ask him "well, then how about we hang with them together." You certainly should say that it is inappropriate after a date night that he goes on another date and at the very least, it suggests to other women that he is available and looking because sorry, a married man who is drinking at a bar at 11 pm at night with a single woman with his wife at home with a kid is a married man looking for action. He may very well be fooling himself about this, but deep down he probably knows this is inappropriate.

OP here. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
How do i respond if he says he thinks this is all totally normal and kosher? That I'm just over reacting? I highly doubt he'll just suddenly agree and say "gee, i didn't think about it like that, i'm sorry I was being disrespectful."

This is what my husband would say if I told him I was uncomfortable with him spending a bunch of money at the bar with another woman.

[Anonymous]

OP I think the grim reality you unfortunately need to prepare to face up to isn't that this is just some bad judgment on his part that you want to stop before it gets too far.

He seems to be so brazen and open about his behavior that it's almost inevitable that he is actively cheating with "jen" and perhaps other women. I would also guess that he has probably cheated on you from pretty much the time you started dating him and throughout your entire marriage. He has so little respect for your intelligence that it's basically all out in the open now. "The spouse is always the last one to know."

I'd get a lawyer if I were you, unless you are comfortable with staying married to him if it turns out that he's a serial and chronic cheater--which I think will ultimately prove to be the case, once you open your eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
How do i respond if he says he thinks this is all totally normal and kosher? That I'm just over reacting? I highly doubt he'll just suddenly agree and say "gee, i didn't think about it like that, i'm sorry I was being disrespectful."

This is what my husband would say if I told him I was uncomfortable with him spending a bunch of money at the bar with another woman.

If he was cheating, yes, that's what he would say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
How do i respond if he says he thinks this is all totally normal and kosher? That I'm just over reacting? I highly doubt he'll just suddenly agree and say "gee, i didn't think about it like that, i'm sorry I was being disrespectful."

One angle I have thought of is encouraging him to ask his married/parent friends if they do anything comparable to this. "Do you think Bill goes and meets 23 year old single women on saturday night without nancy?" "How do you think Dave and Susie handle socializing with new single friends?"

Any other suggestions?

Regardless of whether it's normal (and I really don't think it is...) how YOU feel about it is valid. How this affects YOUR relationship is the point. Just because so-and-so is doing something doesn't mean it works for you or your relationship.