DH friendships with women - what's your comfort level

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. There is no professional connection for DH.

DH told me once before that he bumped in to a couple of the staff when they were getting off work and they grabbed a beer together. that was a couple weeks ago.

He has phone numbers for a couple of them as they have offered to babysit DC. but I dont know what else they text about if not to set up babysitting.

On sat night he went out to watch a boxing match on TV (you have to watch at a bar that has the specific channel) and when he got home I asked who else joined him and he said "Jen." I said "who's Jen?" "Jen from the bookstore. I know you find it weird that they are my friends, but they are."

I think if he was attracted to them he wouldn't be telling you about them. The fact that he's open about it makes it sound not suspicious to me.

[Anonymous]

What I would give for yoga-practicing 26 y/o in thick-rimmed glasses who wanted to discuss Kerouac and listen to the Arcade Fire (le sigh). Your DH sounds like he knows what is up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only one I would remotely be OK with is #1 and that in on the condition that he actually has other reasons to be going to this bookstore besides flirting with women.

The fact that these women have/or may babysit...and he's "friends" with them is just plain weird and wrong.

He's gaslighting you OP. he's trying to turn it around and make you look like the crazy one. If he hasn't already started an affair he is well on his way to one.

Anyone that thinks its OK for their husband to start "friendships" with single women in their 20's just out of the blue is out of their mind. I've been burned on the "we're just friends" crap. I know how it works.

And if I were you, I would actually look at his phone - just for some validation. I'm sure the texts are not harmless.

Well you know PP this is all feminism's fault.

Feminism tells women like OP that it's possible for men and women to just socialize like that and not only have it remain platonic and non-sexual, but that because men and women are equals and respect each other, the last thing in the world to assume would be that they are hanging out with each other due to sexual or romantic feelings.

Of course OP herself in the past, or maybe she has friends, who pulled that "he's just a friend crap" on their boyfriends too, right?

So now OP feels "stuck." How can she accuse her husband of having ulterior motives (or the book store babes for that matter) because that would mean they're Republicans or something.

If you are unable to have platonic relationships with the opposite sex, that sounds like a YOU problem.

Yeah, if the opposite sex "friend" is either morbidly obese or unusually ugly.

A mid-30s male casually befriending a nubile young 20-something? Not possible for a man to keep that platonic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with 10:13 - there is some "hit" or validation that DH is getting from these friendships that he clearly isn't getting at home from me. And that makes me so sad. That's the conversation I really want to have with him.

then this is the conversation you have. start here. you might not like what you hear, but at least you wont' be dancing around the issue.

Also, I detect some sense in your posts that you are almost more afraid of being seen as "needy" than you are of your husband engaging in an inappropriate relationship. You shouldn't be. It is good to build healthy boundaries around your marriage and to be able to say 'Hey, this is not sitting right with me."

Yes. I am most afraid of looking needy and demanding to DH. I feel like the "right" thing to do or the "awesome wife" thing to do is to be totally cool with these friendships and support his ability to maintain a fun social life even as first time parents. but instead i am the bad/demanding/paranoid/wetblanket wife who wants to limit him.

You know from an outside perspective this sounds insane, right? He is doing something wrong and somehow has you feeling guilty for it? He is hanging out with twenty year old girls while you are home with his child. How on earth are you feeling like YOU are doing something wrong here?

+1 this is not how average married couples with children conduct themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I am so curious to see what the text thread looked like on Saturday night, whereby Jen comes out to meet DH at the bar. I was so so tempted to look at his phone yesterday but managed to resist, b/c i want to be able to come to this conversation from a position of non-crazy. But I am tempted to ask him to show me the thread.

Or maybe I shouldn't get bogged down in the HOW. stick with the WHY is this happening? What is he getting out of it, and how can he get it elsewhere (either at home or with more appropriate friends)?

Has anyone had a convo like this with his/her spouse?

Yes, I would be curious to hear how Saturday night and other times they met up started. Is your husband extremely attractive, charismatic, or wealthy? If not, for all you know these 20 something women are creeped out by him but are in a difficult place because he is a customer at their store and also an employer of sorts since they have babysat for you. I would guess they aren't too genuinely interested in a 10+ years older married guy with a kid who hangs around the bookstore and keeps texting them, even on Saturday night. They might think it is weird and sad. It's probably good that he talks with all of them and isn't fixated on just one of them.

Maybe you can approach things from the standpoint of being concerned about the feelings of these young women and the impression that he an old guy might be making on them. You can ask, "So how did it happen that Jen came to watch the game? Did you text her?" Say "It might seem to her that you're this creepy older guy who keeps texting her, and she's not comfortable, but she doesn't want to offend you because you're a customer at the store and she babysits for us. You know that attractive young women who work with the public have guys hitting on them all the time. Of course I know that you just want to be friends with Jen, but she might think you're this weird older guy pursuing her since married men with children don't usually suddenly start being friends with women 10 years younger that they meet in bookstores."

I love this!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all these replies. Sometimes a sanity check from strangers really is helpful. I feel more confident that what I am asking for is reasonable. I am not trying to limit him in any meaningful way and have been fully supportive of his hobbies and social life. In this particular context of meeting new, young women without me on a Saturday night, my flexibility has run out.

Now I just have to muster the courage to say something. And hope j can remain confident and not let him become the victim and me the shitty DW.

[Anonymous]

Um afte date night you should end up in bed together, not you at home with baby and your husband with "Jen".
Wtf!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I am so curious to see what the text thread looked like on Saturday night, whereby Jen comes out to meet DH at the bar. I was so so tempted to look at his phone yesterday but managed to resist, b/c i want to be able to come to this conversation from a position of non-crazy. But I am tempted to ask him to show me the thread.

Or maybe I shouldn't get bogged down in the HOW. stick with the WHY is this happening? What is he getting out of it, and how can he get it elsewhere (either at home or with more appropriate friends)?

Has anyone had a convo like this with his/her spouse?

Yes, I would be curious to hear how Saturday night and other times they met up started. Is your husband extremely attractive, charismatic, or wealthy? If not, for all you know these 20 something women are creeped out by him but are in a difficult place because he is a customer at their store and also an employer of sorts since they have babysat for you. I would guess they aren't too genuinely interested in a 10+ years older married guy with a kid who hangs around the bookstore and keeps texting them, even on Saturday night. They might think it is weird and sad. It's probably good that he talks with all of them and isn't fixated on just one of them.

Maybe you can approach things from the standpoint of being concerned about the feelings of these young women and the impression that he an old guy might be making on them. You can ask, "So how did it happen that Jen came to watch the game? Did you text her?" Say "It might seem to her that you're this creepy older guy who keeps texting her, and she's not comfortable, but she doesn't want to offend you because you're a customer at the store and she babysits for us. You know that attractive young women who work with the public have guys hitting on them all the time. Of course I know that you just want to be friends with Jen, but she might think you're this weird older guy pursuing her since married men with children don't usually suddenly start being friends with women 10 years younger that they meet in bookstores."

I love this!

Ah yes OP. You should definitely accuse your DH of inappropriate behavior with other women while at the same time ridiculing and mocking him, and making the idea that he might be remotely attractive to those women seem ludicrous. Do that and report back

[Anonymous]

Let's go over this situation, shall we?

Overall, he has done better at maintaining a night life/social life since DC was born since he is more of a night owl than I am. I will always choose sleep over a bar/party. He is willing to sacrifice sleep to be social. The result is that I stay home on saturday nights and he goes out (some times). So I am already resentful that he has this part of his life still in tact, while I don't. It's not really what I want for myself anymore - I don't WANT to be out at the bar - but I wish he didn't want it either. I wish he wanted to stay home with me.

On the one hand, we have a husband who occasionally goes out on Saturday nights. On the other, we have a wife, the OP, who has no interest in going out and prefers to go to bed early yet wants her husband to stay at home even though they won't be hanging out together since sleep, by definition, is a state of unconsciousness that precludes intentional socialization.

He usually goes out with his best guy friend, who happens to be single. In fact, the friend has gone on a date or two with the bookstore girls. That was DH's original explanation for having one of the girls' phone numbers was b/c he was setting the girl up with his friend. He will tell me again and again how the girls are dating other people or whatever - like how Jen was coming from a Tinder date on sat night. Or Sally went on a date with DH's buddy. DH told me once before that he bumped in to a couple of the staff when they were getting off work and they grabbed a beer together. that was a couple weeks ago. He has phone numbers for a couple of them as they have offered to babysit DC. but I dont know what else they text about if not to set up babysitting. On sat night he went out to watch a boxing match on TV (you have to watch at a bar that has the specific channel) and when he got home I asked who else joined him and he said "Jen." I said "who's Jen?" "Jen from the bookstore. I know you find it weird that they are my friends, but they are."

On the rare occasions that the husband goes out, most of the time, he meets up with his same-sex buddy who apparently has dated the women who work at the bookstore. He also, voluntarily it seems, tells the OP when he hangs out with these women--some of whom she has actually met b/c they babysit her child--when he could just as easily not bother to disclose or outright lie.

Here's the bummer, too. On sat night we did have a babysitter, one of the bookstore girls, "Sally". And DH and I went to a party together. But then at 10pm I went home to relieve Sally the babysitter, while DH went to the bar to watch the fight. and then Jen met up with him there. Sally and Jen are roommates. So while i was paying Sally for babysitting, Sally's roommate was meeting DH at a bar. I just find that embarrassing. right? like I'm getting played. Did sally and Jen get home on sat night and say, "hey while you were babysitting DH's kid, I met up with DH!"

Sally babysits the OP's kid while she and husband attend a party together. The OP goes home, at which point Sally is off babysitting duty, and the husband goes to the bar where Jen joins him to watch a fight. So Sally isn't watching the kid at all while the husband is hanging out with Jen. Can we say "logic fail" and "paranoia"?

All in all, it sounds as though there's nothing suspect about the husband's behavior, and if these women are somewhat younger than the husband, the age difference probably can be explained by the fact that most of the women in the OP's age bracket--women with whom he might otherwise make friends--probably prefer to do what the OP does which is to say stay at home and go to bed early. I am a woman, and if I had a spouse who behaved in a similar manner, I'd be fine with it. If I were the OP's husband, however, the lack of trust and logical thinking on the part of the OP would make me run as far and as fast as I could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's go over this situation, shall we?

Overall, he has done better at maintaining a night life/social life since DC was born since he is more of a night owl than I am. I will always choose sleep over a bar/party. He is willing to sacrifice sleep to be social. The result is that I stay home on saturday nights and he goes out (some times). So I am already resentful that he has this part of his life still in tact, while I don't. It's not really what I want for myself anymore - I don't WANT to be out at the bar - but I wish he didn't want it either. I wish he wanted to stay home with me.

On the one hand, we have a husband who occasionally goes out on Saturday nights. On the other, we have a wife, the OP, who has no interest in going out and prefers to go to bed early yet wants her husband to stay at home even though they won't be hanging out together since sleep, by definition, is a state of unconsciousness that precludes intentional socialization.

He usually goes out with his best guy friend, who happens to be single. In fact, the friend has gone on a date or two with the bookstore girls. That was DH's original explanation for having one of the girls' phone numbers was b/c he was setting the girl up with his friend. He will tell me again and again how the girls are dating other people or whatever - like how Jen was coming from a Tinder date on sat night. Or Sally went on a date with DH's buddy. DH told me once before that he bumped in to a couple of the staff when they were getting off work and they grabbed a beer together. that was a couple weeks ago. He has phone numbers for a couple of them as they have offered to babysit DC. but I dont know what else they text about if not to set up babysitting. On sat night he went out to watch a boxing match on TV (you have to watch at a bar that has the specific channel) and when he got home I asked who else joined him and he said "Jen." I said "who's Jen?" "Jen from the bookstore. I know you find it weird that they are my friends, but they are."

On the rare occasions that the husband goes out, most of the time, he meets up with his same-sex buddy who apparently has dated the women who work at the bookstore. He also, voluntarily it seems, tells the OP when he hangs out with these women--some of whom she has actually met b/c they babysit her child--when he could just as easily not bother to disclose or outright lie.

Here's the bummer, too. On sat night we did have a babysitter, one of the bookstore girls, "Sally". And DH and I went to a party together. But then at 10pm I went home to relieve Sally the babysitter, while DH went to the bar to watch the fight. and then Jen met up with him there. Sally and Jen are roommates. So while i was paying Sally for babysitting, Sally's roommate was meeting DH at a bar. I just find that embarrassing. right? like I'm getting played. Did sally and Jen get home on sat night and say, "hey while you were babysitting DH's kid, I met up with DH!"

Sally babysits the OP's kid while she and husband attend a party together. The OP goes home, at which point Sally is off babysitting duty, and the husband goes to the bar where Jen joins him to watch a fight. So Sally isn't watching the kid at all while the husband is hanging out with Jen. Can we say "logic fail" and "paranoia"?

All in all, it sounds as though there's nothing suspect about the husband's behavior, and if these women are somewhat younger than the husband, the age difference probably can be explained by the fact that most of the women in the OP's age bracket--women with whom he might otherwise make friends--probably prefer to do what the OP does which is to say stay at home and go to bed early. I am a woman, and if I had a spouse who behaved in a similar manner, I'd be fine with it. If I were the OP's husband, however, the lack of trust and logical thinking on the part of the OP would make me run as far and as fast as I could.

Seriously. +100 to this. I cannot believe how paranoid some women are. If your husband is going to cheat, he is going to cheat. And probably not be so forthcoming about it since he could EASILY lie about who was out with him. Also, being in the same place at the same time isn't a necessarily a date.

Again, if you can't trust your spouse with someone of the opposite sex, either you have a problem, or they aren't trustworthy. Either way, your marriage is in trouble down the line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with 10:13 - there is some "hit" or validation that DH is getting from these friendships that he clearly isn't getting at home from me. And that makes me so sad. That's the conversation I really want to have with him.

then this is the conversation you have. start here. you might not like what you hear, but at least you wont' be dancing around the issue.

Also, I detect some sense in your posts that you are almost more afraid of being seen as "needy" than you are of your husband engaging in an inappropriate relationship. You shouldn't be. It is good to build healthy boundaries around your marriage and to be able to say 'Hey, this is not sitting right with me."

Yes. I am most afraid of looking needy and demanding to DH. I feel like the "right" thing to do or the "awesome wife" thing to do is to be totally cool with these friendships and support his ability to maintain a fun social life even as first time parents. but instead i am the bad/demanding/paranoid/wetblanket wife who wants to limit him.

You know from an outside perspective this sounds insane, right? He is doing something wrong and somehow has you feeling guilty for it? He is hanging out with twenty year old girls while you are home with his child. How on earth are you feeling like YOU are doing something wrong here?

Neither is complaining that you want your DH home so you can both go to bed early instead of allowing him to socialize. OP admits he is USUALLY out with his guy friend and that irritates her too. She IS being unreasonable unless there is more to the story.

+1 this is not how average married couples with children conduct themselves.

[Anonymous]

The last three (#2-4) are completely inappropriate OP.

Why would he need to call/text other women??! As well as meet up with them w/out inviting you to come??

Are you home when he invites these young women over?
If not, your marriage is toast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I am so curious to see what the text thread looked like on Saturday night, whereby Jen comes out to meet DH at the bar. I was so so tempted to look at his phone yesterday but managed to resist, b/c i want to be able to come to this conversation from a position of non-crazy. But I am tempted to ask him to show me the thread.

Or maybe I shouldn't get bogged down in the HOW. stick with the WHY is this happening? What is he getting out of it, and how can he get it elsewhere (either at home or with more appropriate friends)?

Has anyone had a convo like this with his/her spouse?

Yes, I would be curious to hear how Saturday night and other times they met up started. Is your husband extremely attractive, charismatic, or wealthy? If not, for all you know these 20 something women are creeped out by him but are in a difficult place because he is a customer at their store and also an employer of sorts since they have babysat for you. I would guess they aren't too genuinely interested in a 10+ years older married guy with a kid who hangs around the bookstore and keeps texting them, even on Saturday night. They might think it is weird and sad. It's probably good that he talks with all of them and isn't fixated on just one of them.

Maybe you can approach things from the standpoint of being concerned about the feelings of these young women and the impression that he an old guy might be making on them. You can ask, "So how did it happen that Jen came to watch the game? Did you text her?" Say "It might seem to her that you're this creepy older guy who keeps texting her, and she's not comfortable, but she doesn't want to offend you because you're a customer at the store and she babysits for us. You know that attractive young women who work with the public have guys hitting on them all the time. Of course I know that you just want to be friends with Jen, but she might think you're this weird older guy pursuing her since married men with children don't usually suddenly start being friends with women 10 years younger that they meet in bookstores."

I love this!

Ah yes OP. You should definitely accuse your DH of inappropriate behavior with other women while at the same time ridiculing and mocking him, and making the idea that he might be remotely attractive to those women seem ludicrous. Do that and report back

To quote from one of OP's early posts, "He has phone numbers for a couple of them as they have offered to babysit DC." How did it come about that they offered to babysit DC? Because this older married guy kept hanging around the bookstore and chatting them up, and then he glommed onto them one day at closing and asking if they minded if he came along to wherever they were headed. That was the beer they grabbed together. As they sat in the bar together, with a weird vibe, one of them asked pointedly, "So where's your wife?" He said, "Home with our kid."

On other evenings at the bookstore he had the same answer, she's home with our kid. So finally they said to him, "We can babysit for you! Then you can go out with your wife." He ran with that and said, "Sure, why don't I get your numbers." So now he has their numbers and texts them. In the beginning it was actually about babysitting, but now he texts them about how their dates went, where they are going to be.

They don't dislike him per se. He's an entertaining enough guy, and it gives them something to talk about during slow times at the bookstore. They don't consider whether he's attractive or not since he's this older married dad. They hope that his behavior while odd is innocent, that he won't cross the line.

[Anonymous]

To quote from one of OP's early posts, "He has phone numbers for a couple of them as they have offered to babysit DC." How did it come about that they offered to babysit DC? Because this older married guy kept hanging around the bookstore and chatting them up, and then he glommed onto them one day at closing and asking if they minded if he came along to wherever they were headed. That was the beer they grabbed together. As they sat in the bar together, with a weird vibe, one of them asked pointedly, "So where's your wife?" He said, "Home with our kid."

On other evenings at the bookstore he had the same answer, she's home with our kid. So finally they said to him, "We can babysit for you! Then you can go out with your wife." He ran with that and said, "Sure, why don't I get your numbers." So now he has their numbers and texts them. In the beginning it was actually about babysitting, but now he texts them about how their dates went, where they are going to be.

They don't dislike him per se. He's an entertaining enough guy, and it gives them something to talk about during slow times at the bookstore. They don't consider whether he's attractive or not since he's this older married dad. They hope that his behavior while odd is innocent, that he won't cross the line.

OP here. This could be a pretty accurate picture. I think he enjoys feeling young around them and hearing about their dates, etc. But regardless of what the staff think of DH, I am not comfortable with this pattern continuing. Too bad I still cant work up the guts to initiate the conversation. I'm scared of the blowback that makes me out to be a wet blanket (though I have never ever asked him to limit his social life in any way up to now) or of DH confessing something really hurtful.

I just paid our visa bill this morning. the charge from Sat night at the bar was over $90. and he didnt get to the bar until 10pm. and the only person he said who joined him there was Jen. So he either bought a bunch of drinks for Jen or got really generous with his unknown fellow boxing fans.

I know I need to say something tonight. Dreading it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
To quote from one of OP's early posts, "He has phone numbers for a couple of them as they have offered to babysit DC." How did it come about that they offered to babysit DC? Because this older married guy kept hanging around the bookstore and chatting them up, and then he glommed onto them one day at closing and asking if they minded if he came along to wherever they were headed. That was the beer they grabbed together. As they sat in the bar together, with a weird vibe, one of them asked pointedly, "So where's your wife?" He said, "Home with our kid."

On other evenings at the bookstore he had the same answer, she's home with our kid. So finally they said to him, "We can babysit for you! Then you can go out with your wife." He ran with that and said, "Sure, why don't I get your numbers." So now he has their numbers and texts them. In the beginning it was actually about babysitting, but now he texts them about how their dates went, where they are going to be.

They don't dislike him per se. He's an entertaining enough guy, and it gives them something to talk about during slow times at the bookstore. They don't consider whether he's attractive or not since he's this older married dad. They hope that his behavior while odd is innocent, that he won't cross the line.

OP here. This could be a pretty accurate picture. I think he enjoys feeling young around them and hearing about their dates, etc. But regardless of what the staff think of DH, I am not comfortable with this pattern continuing. Too bad I still cant work up the guts to initiate the conversation. I'm scared of the blowback that makes me out to be a wet blanket (though I have never ever asked him to limit his social life in any way up to now) or of DH confessing something really hurtful.

I just paid our visa bill this morning. the charge from Sat night at the bar was over $90. and he didnt get to the bar until 10pm. and the only person he said who joined him there was Jen. So he either bought a bunch of drinks for Jen or got really generous with his unknown fellow boxing fans.

I know I need to say something tonight. Dreading it.

OP, perhaps you can begin your discussion by mentioning the Visa bill. "So I was paying the Visa bill this morning and I saw that the charge from Saturday night was over $90. What did you buy? Was that for you and Jen? Did you buy her drinks or some food at the bar?" If he says that yes, he treated Jen, you could say that seems really strange to you because that makes it like a date. He was at a bar with a single woman on Saturday night and bought her food and drinks. You just aren't comfortable with that, you could say. Then from there you could say that the whole thing makes you uncomfortable, and that it's probably making the bookstore women uncomfortable too since they offered to babysit so he could go out with his wife.

At least the Visa bill would be a way to begin, and it's very legitimate to be concerned about where family resources are going. I understand your discomfort at possibly seeming like a wet blanket wanting to limit his social life. I would be uncomfortable as well. I don't think you can tell other adults what to do. I think you can only share your perspective and see what he says from there. And then you make your decisions from there.

Prepare in advance for how you'll react in various scenarios. What will you say if he says he bought the bar a round of drinks? What if he treated Jen, but he says it's no big deal and you're being ridiculous? What if he says he needs to have some fun going out since you never want to go anywhere?

Good luck, OP. Let us know how it goes!