Is this appropriate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He is shifting blame. If he can make you out to be controlling, then he just had to have an affair! He just had to talk to his friend! It's all your fault!

Do you even want to be married to this dickwad anymore?

OP here - I so agree with your analysis...and i felt this was happening in our first two counseling sessions. all he wanted to talk about were my "faults." he has had somewhat of a change this last week and now does seem to want to work on the marriage in counseling. So I am a little bit hopeful but still completely worried about the "Jane" situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here...It is weird. He met with counselor by himself first. then at our first joint session, all he wanted to talk about was me and my issues, i.e., what he does not like about me. At the second session (before I knew anything about Jane still), I pushed back and really vented about him --- I explained why and how I thought he contributed to the marriage breakdown. i admitted my part completely and fully but he had and still has a very difficult time admitting that he is at fault, too. And now with the Jane thing, I am at my wit's end. For example, in session 2, he said I was "controlling" and claimed I called him every night if he was late coming home from work. Counselor agreed with him and said I can't call until he is 15 minutes late. I said - I don't do that...I call sometimes if there is bad weather mostly because I am worried about highway and accidents. The phone bills for both months showed that I was correct - I called him exactly 3 times on his commute home. He went on an on about how it is okay for him to be 15 - 30 minutes late because he can't control traffic and weather, which is obvious. However, the phone bills show that he would call Jane at 6 p.m. and talk for 45 minutes and thus he would get home late DUE TO HIM TALKING TO HER. This happened repeatedly in Jan and Feb. So, his main issue with me - that I am controlling - is not quite true...It is weird -- he told counselor I can't call him (2nd session) but now with the phone bills, I find out the true reason - he is chatting with her on his commute home and doesn't want to be disturbed. Also he would often not answer his phone and tell me he did not hear the ringer.

Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

[Anonymous]

Sounds to me like he's doing all he can to make your likely separation and divorce all your fault. Take a close look at his behavior and how little it sounds like you and the kids are considered. It's all about him and your "bad" behavior. He wants to separate but he doesn't want to have to give you or the kids any support. If he cared about you and them he wouldn't be taking away time from you and the kids to talk to and see Jane. You're all a massive inconvenience to him standing in his way. He's trying to play victim. You got the phone bill. You see what's going on. Next you need a PI to spot them in action. You will need this for court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly is the part you find inappropriate? That your DH has coffee with a friend of the opposite sex? That he talks to her about marital issues? I don't think either of those are that unusual or problematic in & of themselves. But you clearly aren't comfortable with their relationship, so I suppose it's your prerogative to ask him to stop.

Husband says he's unhappy and it takes TWO therapy sessions to finally say he has been having lunch with some woman that is neither family nor a co-worker??? Come on PP. When people are doing something appropriate, they don't wait until therapy to tell their spouse about it.

Yes, he feels guilty, so he's setting you up for the session where he can "come clean" about the affair in a safe environment. If I were you, I would listen, pack up my bag or briefcase and leave the therapist's office and go call the lawyer you've already pre-arranged to call when this happens (providing you want a divorce) and follow his or her instructions. Then go home and change the locks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

Yes, I imagine he did totally get your point. He's gaslighting you when he can, but when the evidence backs him into a corner, he'll be good enough to totally get your point.

I feel so bad for you OP. I've been where you are and made the same mistakes you're making. I hope you have a better outcome, but I don't think you will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

Yes, I imagine he did totally get your point. He's gaslighting you when he can, but when the evidence backs him into a corner, he'll be good enough to totally get your point.

I feel so bad for you OP. I've been where you are and made the same mistakes you're making. I hope you have a better outcome, but I don't think you will.

He's just trying to save his ass by agreeing with you when he's backed into a corner - Jane probably helped him figure out a strategy to deal with you. Or perhaps she was sobered by your call and they are temporarily backing off from what clearly is an emotional affair.
It is very possible that neither has processed that this is a full-blown affair if nothing physical has happened yet.
Your DH is in denial. See a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair. [b]

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair. [b]

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair. [b]

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

As do I. OP, you have gotten some really excellent advice here. Now TAKE IT. You are spinning uselessly right now and making so many mistakes. You cannot use logic to get your DH to acknowledge the affair. As others have said, he will only admit to what you have evidence of. So now get evidence of the affair. VAR? PI?

Also, I guaran-damn-tee you that he will appear to stop talking to her. But he will have a pay as you go phone, which will probably be stashed in his car, so he can continue his affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair.

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

As do I. OP, you have gotten some really excellent advice here. Now TAKE IT. You are spinning uselessly right now and making so many mistakes. You cannot use logic to get your DH to acknowledge the affair. As others have said, he will only admit to what you have evidence of. So now get evidence of the affair. VAR? PI?

[b]Also, I guaran-damn-tee you that he will appear to stop talking to her. But he will have a pay as you go phone, which will probably be stashed in his car, so he can continue his affair.

Yep. He will definitely stop contacting her with his cell phone, but he will be calling her from work and likely from a prepaid phone as well. I am the one who reminded you that they think they are in love. They are not going to just stop talking easily. The fog of the affair is very, very powerful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair.

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

As do I. OP, you have gotten some really excellent advice here. Now TAKE IT. You are spinning uselessly right now and making so many mistakes. You cannot use logic to get your DH to acknowledge the affair. As others have said, he will only admit to what you have evidence of. So now get evidence of the affair. VAR? PI?

[b]Also, I guaran-damn-tee you that he will appear to stop talking to her. But he will have a pay as you go phone, which will probably be stashed in his car, so he can continue his affair.

Yep. He will definitely stop contacting her with his cell phone, but he will be calling her from work and likely from a prepaid phone as well. I am the one who reminded you that they think they are in love. They are not going to just stop talking easily. The fog of the affair is very, very powerful.

Agreed. Moreover, once they know how much you suspect, they start covering their tracks much more carefully. It becomes incredibly difficult to get evidence, and in the meantime, the gas lighting continues.

You are wasting precious time here. Dig for as much information as you can, and please get a new therapist and see a lawyer!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you can't call your husband to make sure he's on his way home or for whatever reason you need to but he's totally ok with Jane calling him anywhere , anytime? Ask your lousy therapist this next time.

OP here - thank you for this! This is such an excellent point. I just had another discussion with DH and told him this. He agreed with this point and said he will make sure he is available to talk to me whenever I want to call him. I said - why am a I controlling bitch if I call you on your commute home??? And I only do that every once in a while and yet, you called "Jane" at all hours - inlcuding weekend when you would sneak out to the store or garage. He totally got my point.

OP, I really feel for you and am sorry you are going through this. You are in strong denial, though. Whether he got your point about the phone calls or not seems irrelevant to me. Whether he gets your point about any of this is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that he is having an affair.

They think they are in love. Do you get that? I would be surprised if it hadn't turned physical already, considering they work and live near each other. They are in love and talking constantly -- there is NO way they are only meeting for coffee every once in awhile.

If you had a way of accessing his emails, I think you would be shocked at what you'd find. I guarantee you they are exchanging I love you's and talking about their future together.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with you.

As do I. OP, you have gotten some really excellent advice here. Now TAKE IT. You are spinning uselessly right now and making so many mistakes. You cannot use logic to get your DH to acknowledge the affair. As others have said, he will only admit to what you have evidence of. So now get evidence of the affair. VAR? PI?

[b]Also, I guaran-damn-tee you that he will appear to stop talking to her. But he will have a pay as you go phone, which will probably be stashed in his car, so he can continue his affair.

Yep. He will definitely stop contacting her with his cell phone, but he will be calling her from work and likely from a prepaid phone as well. I am the one who reminded you that they think they are in love. They are not going to just stop talking easily. The fog of the affair is very, very powerful.

OP, think of it this way. He's addicted to talking to and seeing Jane. He's convinced himself that she "understands him." No way in hell is giving her up so easily. You have to be several steps ahead of him here, and that means lawyer, making sure that he leaves the house-- not you and the kids. He screwed up, he goes. Why should they be uprooted? He knows you're more invested in this and he wants to keep the status quo for as long as possible because he's too lazy and cowardly to tell you he's leaving, and actually leave. It's too much effort, and too expensive for him, to remove himself.

[Anonymous]

OP here - he has adamantly refused to let me have access to his email. He keeps his two home computers all locked up. I think he was surprised I got the phone records. He wouldn't even agree to "ground rules" about the phone. I said you need to leave the phone out in the open with the ringer on..and if you go out to garage to work on a project, leave phone in house. he didn't like these "rules" and said I was controlling him. But, I said to him, if you are really and truly working on our marriage, we need to rebuild trust. He doesn't seem very willing to do anything to prove himself re: trust issues right now. But he did apologize again and tell me, I have done what you asked; I have cut off all contact. (He called her after I called her and he apologized to her for my call - which I told him was ridicululous - he should care more about my feelings than her feelings - and he says he told her he was "oversharing" with her and he knows she was just being a supportive friend but that he needed to stop this now.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - he has adamantly refused to let me have access to his email. He keeps his two home computers all locked up. I think he was surprised I got the phone records. He wouldn't even agree to "ground rules" about the phone. I said you need to leave the phone out in the open with the ringer on..and if you go out to garage to work on a project, leave phone in house. he didn't like these "rules" and said I was controlling him. But, I said to him, if you are really and truly working on our marriage, we need to rebuild trust. He doesn't seem very willing to do anything to prove himself re: trust issues right now. But he did apologize again and tell me, I have done what you asked; I have cut off all contact. (He called her after I called her and he apologized to her for my call - which I told him was ridicululous - he should care more about my feelings than her feelings - and he says he told her he was "oversharing" with her and he knows she was just being a supportive friend but that he needed to stop this now.)

Oh my god, that is the biggest line of bull I've ever heard. A simple supportive friendship doesn't require the need for secrecy. Even supportive friends don't do things like talk on the phone constantly, sneak out to call each other, etc. Wow, he really thinks he is pulling the wool over your eyes. Is he? OP, do you really believe the lines he is feeding you, or have you realized yet that he is in the middle of a full blown, powerful affair?

I'm so sorry. I really feel for you and wish we were friends so I could offer support.