Can anyone please explain the mindset of parents who allow “failure to launch”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also there are young 20 somethings dealing with serious illness that others don't know about. I've avoided family because I'm not going to explain why my kid is neither working nor going to school right now. His medical issues are his business and he wants privacy.

Hmm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Activity is the best thing to overcome many of these issues though per the research. So it draws out the mental health issues by having people just hang around a house doing nothing.

Very true

Humans need purpose, routine, and love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH's nephews are big examples of failure to launch, including a lack of college (failed sporadically taken classes at NOVA), lack of employment (both go for years with no job, then work at a place like the Amazon warehouse for a few months, and then get fired for not showing up because they didn't get out of bed), and addiction to cannabis and video games.

The father was unmedicated and mentally ill and screamed at them a lot (we don't know if he physically abused them or not, but probably); he terrorized them. He died several years ago. The mother was totally enmeshed with the boys and used her them for all of the emotional intimacy she didn't get from her DH -- so she kept them infantalized. She never disciplined them, never said anything about the constant smell of weed.

The are now mid-thirties and nothing has changed. They still live at home. The mother gives them money. The mother makes dinner every night as if they were 10 years old. They do nothing to help out (the mother recently hired someone to freaking mow their lawn). One of them does do the grocery shopping -- but he does it because his mother gives him her debit card and he uses it to get cash back (and of course she never says anything about this).

Ugh

This can happen as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH's nephews are big examples of failure to launch, including a lack of college (failed sporadically taken classes at NOVA), lack of employment (both go for years with no job, then work at a place like the Amazon warehouse for a few months, and then get fired for not showing up because they didn't get out of bed), and addiction to cannabis and video games.

The father was unmedicated and mentally ill and screamed at them a lot (we don't know if he physically abused them or not, but probably); he terrorized them. He died several years ago. The mother was totally enmeshed with the boys and used her them for all of the emotional intimacy she didn't get from her DH -- so she kept them infantalized. She never disciplined them, never said anything about the constant smell of weed.

The are now mid-thirties and nothing has changed. They still live at home. The mother gives them money. The mother makes dinner every night as if they were 10 years old. They do nothing to help out (the mother recently hired someone to freaking mow their lawn). One of them does do the grocery shopping -- but he does it because his mother gives him her debit card and he uses it to get cash back (and of course she never says anything about this).

This sounds so bleak and heartbreaking in so many ways. My cousin has a somewhat similar situation. The DH wasn't abusive with the family but very dysfunctional to the point she had to divorce him to keep the kids and her job.

Sadly neither of her sons, who are in their early thirties, work. She has thrown herself into her job, which can be draining but she also finds rewarding, and retreated from her siblings as well as some of our cousins with whom she had been very close for decades. She is embarassed and lonely.

Glad she saved herself.

It only takes one unhealthy, dysfunctional parent to directly or indirectly make the same of their offspring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many men have this problem?

The patriarchy? Not really joking.

Seems like the opposite. As it is dismantled we get more of it.

No, weird cousin Joe just stayed inside with Ma centuries ago so he wouldn’t get injured on the farm equipment or the train tracks or in the saber tooth tiger cave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many men have this problem?

The patriarchy? Not really joking.

Seems like the opposite. As it is dismantled we get more of it.

No, not really. The dismantling - or the attempts thereof - reveals the problem, it doesn't cause it.

Yes. Now there’s less handing off from the mother to a wife or sister. The FTL male just lives at home indefinitely with his parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing is tough love is risky. What if the child doesn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps? What if they end up homeless? Turn to drugs? Get taken advantage of? Forced to live in unsafe conditions/vulnerable to abusive relationships?

Parents are also worried that their failure to launch child lacks grit and resilience due to their lack of something in their home environment or upbringing, so they feel responsible.

A young adult brain isn't fully formed until 25. Some things are hard to pinpoint. What is a phase, verses a full blown psychiatric diagnosis? Mental health conditions don't become fully apparent until mid to late 20s.

Every situation and family is different.

There are no easy answers

A supportive family leads to the best outcomes in most situations, versus a family who writes a person off

Sometimes the "failure to launch" is the scapegoat, the identified patient, and is carrying everyone else's dysfunction.

Those are my thoughts

All true in the above.

I figured out early on that for one of our children “natural consequences” never worked. She’d had ASD like her father, uncle and grandfather have.
I cannot push her, she needs a long glide path, she tries many things and quits many things. I only want a couple things to stick- like one sport or one friend group or one passion that could become a college major or job or career. We are searching.
She drives her younger sibling crazy. With the lateness, with the lashing out, with the anxiety and anger. Similar to the father, we walk on eggshells. Will she have a good day or a bad day?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is tough love is risky. What if the child doesn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps? What if they end up homeless? Turn to drugs? Get taken advantage of? Forced to live in unsafe conditions/vulnerable to abusive relationships?

Parents are also worried that their failure to launch child lacks grit and resilience due to their lack of something in their home environment or upbringing, so they feel responsible.

A young adult brain isn't fully formed until 25. Some things are hard to pinpoint. What is a phase, verses a full blown psychiatric diagnosis? Mental health conditions don't become fully apparent until mid to late 20s.

Every situation and family is different.

There are no easy answers

A supportive family leads to the best outcomes in most situations, versus a family who writes a person off

Sometimes the "failure to launch" is the scapegoat, the identified patient, and is carrying everyone else's dysfunction.

Those are my thoughts

Lots of much-needed nuance here. It can be very hard to know what to do.

Neuropsychology tests and doctors can help; especially if you know or suspect something runs in the family. Get the parent tested first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many men have this problem?

The patriarchy? Not really joking.

Seems like the opposite. As it is dismantled we get more of it.

No, weird cousin Joe just stayed inside with Ma centuries ago so he wouldn’t get injured on the farm equipment or the train tracks or in the saber tooth tiger cave.

That would not be different than the scenario being talked about here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many men have this problem?

The patriarchy? Not really joking.

Seems like the opposite. As it is dismantled we get more of it.

No, weird cousin Joe just stayed inside with Ma centuries ago so he wouldn’t get injured on the farm equipment or the train tracks or in the saber tooth tiger cave.

That would not be different than the scenario being talked about here.

Correct. So no, there is not more of it now, not due to shining a light on the patriarchy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This man is 21, has never had a job, doesn’t attend college, does nothing. His parents (divorced) pay for everything he does; food, gas, car, phone, clothing. He bounces between his parents houses.

What do they each gain from this? Why doesn’t he want to launch? Why do they finance his lifestyle?

He may be working through all sorts of things, hard to tell if minor and pinpointed-like due to the parents divorce, or if long standing-invisible disabilities, mental or learning or physical.

Just ask him why he’s living at home. You’ll get some sort of spin or an honest answer.

If you’re dating him, ask the tough questions. What kind of student was he, what did he do in HS, did he enjoy college, what ar who’s goals and when and steps towards achieving them.

If he has no plan or plan that makes sense, stop dating. It will be a difficult future.

[Anonymous]

Mindset of the parents?

If they are not the same way themselves, the Mom prob knew her kid had issues and she either propped him up all the time hoping for the best, or got him professional help, or just ignored the symptoms or patterns.

Even if you quit your job and tutor and support and relive middle and high school for your problem child, there could still be poor results.
I’d advise against that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many men have this problem?

The patriarchy? Not really joking.

Seems like the opposite. As it is dismantled we get more of it.

No, weird cousin Joe just stayed inside with Ma centuries ago so he wouldn’t get injured on the farm equipment or the train tracks or in the saber tooth tiger cave.

That would not be different than the scenario being talked about here.

Correct. So no, there is not more of it now, not due to shining a light on the patriarchy

Feel like I've read that a lot more men have dropped out of the workforce in recent years/decades. If they can't get the job they feel they are entitled to, they don't want to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many men have this problem?

The patriarchy? Not really joking.

Seems like the opposite. As it is dismantled we get more of it.

No, weird cousin Joe just stayed inside with Ma centuries ago so he wouldn’t get injured on the farm equipment or the train tracks or in the saber tooth tiger cave.

That would not be different than the scenario being talked about here.

Correct. So no, there is not more of it now, not due to shining a light on the patriarchy

Feel like I've read that a lot more men have dropped out of the workforce in recent years/decades. If they can't get the job they feel they are entitled to, they don't want to work.

They are good candidates for tough love then, help them plan their lives back to working and having a routine. But don’t give them free food, free housing and no obligations. That’s molly coddling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is basically the situation with my brother, except my elderly parents, who are living on social security and a modest pension, pay for him to live in his own place. My parents see no way out of it and are incapable of setting boundaries. They don't want to leave him homeless. It's all very stressful, and I'm basically a bystander, as my parents fritter away everything they have on my brother. I do worry what will happen if my parents need long-term care, and I've raised this issue, but the three of them continue on, same as it ever was.

I'm the PP you responded to. It's frustrating, for sure. My folks too are convinced that my sibling will be SOL if they set boundaries, and so they don't. He rules the roost in their house and it is painful to watch. When I gently raised the issue years ago, my mom snapped "I'm not throwing him out on the street, Larla!" Well, there you have it... I didn't broach the topic again. I had come to a point of acceptance and understanding that the situation wasn't going to change and there was nothing I could do about it. But my mom continues to ask me to encourage him to move, suggest places for him to go, even have him stay over my house to do home maintenance (which admittedly, he is good at) because he is bored and lonely and angry living at home with them. sigh... I doubt my extolling the virtues of the DMV area or Hagerstown or Annapolis or HoCo or wherever else is going to move the needle at all for him; it hasn't made a difference the three times I've tried it before, and it's not like he's going to listen if I try a fourth time!

Sadly all of this has affected their relationships with my kids, who are their only grandchildren at the moment. They get the short end of the stick because the bulk of my parents' time and attention has gone towards my sibling and his issues. My mom seems oddly disinterested in my kids; my dad at least makes an effort to chat with them, play with them, etc., but their interactions with my kids are stilted and weird. It's hard to explain but they don't seem really "present" during our visits; my mom in particular seems like she can't wait to get her foot out the door and head home to make sure my sibling is doing OK. I've been working through all of this in therapy and it's been helpful, but it's hard to watch and not be able to help in any way.

I have no idea what's going to happen when (or if) they need long-term care. I am not looking forward to that day. Sending you and your family good thoughts, PP.