Can anyone please explain the mindset of parents who allow “failure to launch”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many men have this problem?

The patriarchy? Not really joking.

Seems like the opposite. As it is dismantled we get more of it.

No, not really. The dismantling - or the attempts thereof - reveals the problem, it doesn't cause it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few nieces and nephews who have failed to launch after great educations and they are well into their 30s. Their fathers were all successful (mothers SAH) so it’s not like they didn’t see hard work pay off. I have no idea if the parents are subsidizing them but I’m sure some are.

Society encourages it and there are a lot of distractions. If you are not seeking growth, status or money why would you leave a warm nest?

I struggle with this. I grew up working class so was highly motivated to go to college. I didn't go after money, but definitely took jobs in nonprofit sector that paid better, had more stable funding than the jobs I would've really liked to work.

DH grew up in a warm nest, but will still highly motivated. One of our DCs is too. The other struggles with some of the mental health conditions referred to here. I used to think being kind of a hard ass would be a sufficient motivator, but it's not. It's been a challenge as a parent to figure out how to approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an adult sibling who might be considered a failure to launch. He lives at home with my parents and has not worked for the past 2 years. Before that he held a series of short term jobs and at one point, did actually move out, but then moved back home when it became apparent that he wasn't able to manage on his own.

The underlying problem is--at the very least--severe anxiety. Possibly also a learning disability, mood disorder, or executive processing issue. But anxiety is a definite. He has had anger management problems in the past and has said some terrible things to me and my other siblings, to say nothing of how he's treated my parents the past 12 or so years. I do not know if he is getting medicated or seeing a doctor for his anxiety and other issues. He is unpleasant to be around, frankly, and we are not close. Cordial, but distant.

My mom has asked me several times to try and spur him on his way out the door. She's asked me to talk to him and suggest places to move to, because she is desperate to get him out of the house. Thing is, I've tried that already, and it falls on deaf ears... he has to make the decision to leave on his own. Or alternatively, if my parents don't want him living there, they have to take steps to make that happen. But they seem totally incapable of setting any boundaries or ground rules with him at all. The situation is terrible and I hate it, but there's really nothing I can do. I've told my mom to stop asking me to intervene; it's not my problem to fix. DH and I will have to make it clear, when the time comes (which it likely will, my dad has hinted at it...), that we will not be supporting him financially once my parents are no longer able to do so.

So to answer your question PP, I don't know what my parents' mindset is in this situation. I hope for the best but I don't know how it'll end up. It'll be very difficult for the three of them to extricate themselves from the toxic soup of codependency and untreated (or undertreated) mental illness they now find themselves in. Sad all around.

This is basically the situation with my brother, except my elderly parents, who are living on social security and a modest pension, pay for him to live in his own place. My parents see no way out of it and are incapable of setting boundaries. They don't want to leave him homeless. It's all very stressful, and I'm basically a bystander, as my parents fritter away everything they have on my brother. I do worry what will happen if my parents need long-term care, and I've raised this issue, but the three of them continue on, same as it ever was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an adult sibling who might be considered a failure to launch. He lives at home with my parents and has not worked for the past 2 years. Before that he held a series of short term jobs and at one point, did actually move out, but then moved back home when it became apparent that he wasn't able to manage on his own.

The underlying problem is--at the very least--severe anxiety. Possibly also a learning disability, mood disorder, or executive processing issue. But anxiety is a definite. He has had anger management problems in the past and has said some terrible things to me and my other siblings, to say nothing of how he's treated my parents the past 12 or so years. I do not know if he is getting medicated or seeing a doctor for his anxiety and other issues. He is unpleasant to be around, frankly, and we are not close. Cordial, but distant.

My mom has asked me several times to try and spur him on his way out the door. She's asked me to talk to him and suggest places to move to, because she is desperate to get him out of the house. Thing is, I've tried that already, and it falls on deaf ears... he has to make the decision to leave on his own. Or alternatively, if my parents don't want him living there, they have to take steps to make that happen. But they seem totally incapable of setting any boundaries or ground rules with him at all. The situation is terrible and I hate it, but there's really nothing I can do. I've told my mom to stop asking me to intervene; it's not my problem to fix. DH and I will have to make it clear, when the time comes (which it likely will, my dad has hinted at it...), that we will not be supporting him financially once my parents are no longer able to do so.

So to answer your question PP, I don't know what my parents' mindset is in this situation. I hope for the best but I don't know how it'll end up. It'll be very difficult for the three of them to extricate themselves from the toxic soup of codependency and untreated (or undertreated) mental illness they now find themselves in. Sad all around.

I had a much older brother suffer some mental problems in his 50s and move in with my parents. He is a very nice person, and filled a huge role as parent caregiver when they were elderly. Literally, he saved my parents (and by default his siblings via inheritance) hundreds of thousands of dollars that would have been spent on either assisted living or in-home nurses.

Maybe he always had these problems, but he managed to live on his own from 21 - 55.

How was he able to get it together to help them out? He fixed their house? Their meals? Took them to appointments? Did their shopping? I guess he was able to do some of that on his own before? This seems like a different type of person than a failure to launch since he did live on his own from 21 to 55.

[Anonymous]

The thing is tough love is risky. What if the child doesn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps? What if they end up homeless? Turn to drugs? Get taken advantage of? Forced to live in unsafe conditions/vulnerable to abusive relationships?

Parents are also worried that their failure to launch child lacks grit and resilience due to their lack of something in their home environment or upbringing, so they feel responsible.

A young adult brain isn't fully formed until 25. Some things are hard to pinpoint. What is a phase, verses a full blown psychiatric diagnosis? Mental health conditions don't become fully apparent until mid to late 20s.

Every situation and family is different.

There are no easy answers

A supportive family leads to the best outcomes in most situations, versus a family who writes a person off

Sometimes the "failure to launch" is the scapegoat, the identified patient, and is carrying everyone else's dysfunction.

Those are my thoughts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing is tough love is risky. What if the child doesn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps? What if they end up homeless? Turn to drugs? Get taken advantage of? Forced to live in unsafe conditions/vulnerable to abusive relationships?

Parents are also worried that their failure to launch child lacks grit and resilience due to their lack of something in their home environment or upbringing, so they feel responsible.

A young adult brain isn't fully formed until 25. Some things are hard to pinpoint. What is a phase, verses a full blown psychiatric diagnosis? Mental health conditions don't become fully apparent until mid to late 20s.

Every situation and family is different.

There are no easy answers

A supportive family leads to the best outcomes in most situations, versus a family who writes a person off

Sometimes the "failure to launch" is the scapegoat, the identified patient, and is carrying everyone else's dysfunction.

Those are my thoughts

Lots of much-needed nuance here. It can be very hard to know what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an adult sibling who might be considered a failure to launch. He lives at home with my parents and has not worked for the past 2 years. Before that he held a series of short term jobs and at one point, did actually move out, but then moved back home when it became apparent that he wasn't able to manage on his own.

The underlying problem is--at the very least--severe anxiety. Possibly also a learning disability, mood disorder, or executive processing issue. But anxiety is a definite. He has had anger management problems in the past and has said some terrible things to me and my other siblings, to say nothing of how he's treated my parents the past 12 or so years. I do not know if he is getting medicated or seeing a doctor for his anxiety and other issues. He is unpleasant to be around, frankly, and we are not close. Cordial, but distant.

My mom has asked me several times to try and spur him on his way out the door. She's asked me to talk to him and suggest places to move to, because she is desperate to get him out of the house. Thing is, I've tried that already, and it falls on deaf ears... he has to make the decision to leave on his own. Or alternatively, if my parents don't want him living there, they have to take steps to make that happen. But they seem totally incapable of setting any boundaries or ground rules with him at all. The situation is terrible and I hate it, but there's really nothing I can do. I've told my mom to stop asking me to intervene; it's not my problem to fix. DH and I will have to make it clear, when the time comes (which it likely will, my dad has hinted at it...), that we will not be supporting him financially once my parents are no longer able to do so.

So to answer your question PP, I don't know what my parents' mindset is in this situation. I hope for the best but I don't know how it'll end up. It'll be very difficult for the three of them to extricate themselves from the toxic soup of codependency and untreated (or undertreated) mental illness they now find themselves in. Sad all around.

I had a much older brother suffer some mental problems in his 50s and move in with my parents. He is a very nice person, and filled a huge role as parent caregiver when they were elderly. Literally, he saved my parents (and by default his siblings via inheritance) hundreds of thousands of dollars that would have been spent on either assisted living or in-home nurses.

Maybe he always had these problems, but he managed to live on his own from 21 - 55.

How was he able to get it together to help them out? He fixed their house? Their meals? Took them to appointments? Did their shopping? I guess he was able to do some of that on his own before? This seems like a different type of person than a failure to launch since he did live on his own from 21 to 55.

Yes, all of the above. He drove them to medical appointments (and everywhere since they could no longer safely drive themselves), took care of hiring contractors to fix the house, did all household shopping, arranged the logistics for their funerals, etc.

He has mental issues, which I guess didn't really manifest until his 50s...at least not in a way that prevented him from working and living on his own. I bet they may have been there in earlier in life but my parents were never going to support him in his 20s, so sometimes even those with issues are able to figure out something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better to live in my basement than die

So long as you're getting them the psychiatric treatment they need, yes

You can't force an adult to get the psychiatric treatment they may need.

This is very true. But you can say, unless you meet with a psychiatrist/therapist on a regular schedule and take the meds they prescribe, you can't live here.

Throwing your kids out to live on the streets is one of the most brutal and difficult things parents could ever do. Why are we even talking about this here? Whoever wrote this clearly has no understanding of the issues involved, this is like talking to a five year old

The whole idea is the kid doesn't want to go to the streets so he toes the line wrt getting treatment. A five-year-old (note the correct hyphens) would understand that.

If you've appointed yourself the grammar police, you should at least know the rules. You're better off keeping your uninformed opinions to yourself so you stop outing yourself as an idiot.

https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/HyphensEnDashesEmDashes/faq0035.html
https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/articles/are-you-using-hyphens-correctly/#:~:text=Summary,but%20not%20after%20the%20noun.

When to Not Hyphenate Ages
Now we’ll move on to when you don’t hyphenate ages: When the age is part of an adjective phrase after the noun, you don’t hyphenate it. For example,

Beyoncé is 37 years old.
John’s twin sons are nearly 2 years old.
Neither of those ages are hyphenated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know they “allow” this?

Because they haven’t kicked him out? Haven’t stopped paying for his phone/car/insurance/etc etc. Are you serious?

Why do you know all of this about another family? Kind of weird, if I'm being honest. I'd worry about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better to live in my basement than die

So long as you're getting them the psychiatric treatment they need, yes

You can't force an adult to get the psychiatric treatment they may need.

This is very true. But you can say, unless you meet with a psychiatrist/therapist on a regular schedule and take the meds they prescribe, you can't live here.

Throwing your kids out to live on the streets is one of the most brutal and difficult things parents could ever do. Why are we even talking about this here? Whoever wrote this clearly has no understanding of the issues involved, this is like talking to a five year old

The whole idea is the kid doesn't want to go to the streets so he toes the line wrt getting treatment. A five-year-old (note the correct hyphens) would understand that.

If you've appointed yourself the grammar police, you should at least know the rules. You're better off keeping your uninformed opinions to yourself so you stop outing yourself as an idiot.

https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/HyphensEnDashesEmDashes/faq0035.html
https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/articles/are-you-using-hyphens-correctly/#:~:text=Summary,but%20not%20after%20the%20noun.

When to Not Hyphenate Ages
Now we’ll move on to when you don’t hyphenate ages: When the age is part of an adjective phrase after the noun, you don’t hyphenate it. For example,

Beyoncé is 37 years old.
John’s twin sons are nearly 2 years old.
Neither of those ages are hyphenated.

[Anonymous]

Mental disorders at play - the child and/or one or both parents….

… which then often leads to enabling and codependency…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mind your own business! What do they gain? Perhaps the parents gain peace of mind knowing that he is safe, clothed, and has a roof over his head.

They are likely more parents than you can imagine who have concerns over failure to launch. Not your money, not your issue.

The parents don’t view it as a failure to launch, even though it is and they should have gotten the child help over the years (a dx, appropriate therapies, tutors, discipline, a different school or environment, goal setting, executive functioning help, etc.).

Perhaps they ALL have a big victim mentality. Thus don’t bother trying hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a younger relative like this. His parents ignored his learning disabilities until after he was 18, and never got him appropriate help. He did finally get a series of low skill jobs.

+1. Denial is real

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm 48 and my parents partially support me. They have their reasons.

Which were what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry…the vast majority of the 21 year olds living at home and doing nothing don’t have all these severe psychological problems.

I agree it’s not OP’s problem…but only on DCUM would there be a litany of kids with these psyche issues.

21 year olds DO have all these problems. So many of them are on the autism spectrum or have ADHD. Most of them have anxiety and depression. They can barely function without their phones. And then Covid on top of all that messed them up completely.

+1. The friends or siblings of friends I know who lived at home in the 20s or off and on or indefinitely were unstable mentally:
One was bipolar and on meds, no married no kids

One was aspergers/ HFA/ ASD I

One was severely depressed quite a bit, would get into trouble (men, drugs, pregnancies, losing jobs, overspending, sleeping all day). And died at age 45 from a seizure. Her family never disclosed what the issues were the 45 years we knew her and them.