Wanting to divorce a “recovered” spouse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH had reached a point where his anger and rage were too much, and had escalated into physical aggression (I won’t go as far as saying domestic violence per our counselor but many people would consider what he did to be a dealbreaker).

I finally had enough and told people including our families and clergy that I was living with Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, and reluctantly, he got into counseling, both individual and marriage counseling with me. He has committed to it. The counselors who have worked with us both believe he is on the right track. He has also stopped almost all of the behaviors that upset me for so long and is controlling himself completely and being the husband I have always wanted him to be. It’s only been a couple of months but I feel like there has been a real sea change, and it may be genuine. Our home environment is also so much more peaceful and pleasant for our kids, and with him controlling himself it is so much easier for me to be a better parent and less reactive too.

So why do I want to leave him more than anything? I have time benchmarks that I talked about with my counselor, for example I checked in with myself at the end of the school year and felt I could stay, I want to see how the summer goes, etc. I am trying to reconnect with him and do things with him.

He is an ultra responsible parent and partner: he works two jobs, makes decent money, does a majority of the housework, and is very involved with our kids. But for years he just treated me abysmally and I just did nothing about it for so long, feeling like I couldn’t leave. And now I am not seeing any sort of future with him. I love him, but in a detached sort of way, like a relative that I just don’t like very much.

It’s like the entire marriage was an uphill climb for me anyway. I’m tired, and I don’t know when my feelings will change or if they will change. I loved this man for so long, but I am spent and feel like I am in a totally different place now: I would like to find a partner that I don’t have this ugly history with. I feel calm, but that I do not want to stay married to this man. It was like the thought never realistically occurred to me, but once it did, it’s a siren song that I can’t get out of my head.

I don’t know if I am asking a question or venting. Have you been here? Do I need to give it more time? I don’t want 50/50 custody of my kids, I don’t want to lose half my finances (although I’d totally survive financially). I want to do the right thing for everyone but it feels like staying is not the right thing for me.

OP are you me? My story is almost exactly aligned with yours, save for the fact that I married my husband because I fell in love with the perceived stability I thought he and his family would bring to my life because my mom had just died. My husband too is working on all of his anger issues but I feel like it is too little too late. Verbal and emotional abuse for 20 years and it just feels like I have so much resentment and sadness. I am now in a place of extreme calm but complete removal and distance in terms of emotional and physical intimacy. I’m kind of just enjoying the space and not making decisions right now. I am right there with you.

Yes, this is me, I am filled with resentment and sadness from 15 years of this. What are we going to do, pp? How long can we live like this? Do we leave now?

I don't know, OP. I've got 4 years until my youngest leaves the nest for college. My older one will be a junior in high school, and I feel like disrupting his high school life with a divorce would side track things like SAT prep, etc. I can't really imagine a life with my husband, I simply don't like being around him anymore, even though he is 'getting better.' I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm in therapy, which is helping TREMENDOUSLY. I was raised in an abusive household, and I'm learning about shifting my mindset to realize that I AM strong enough to do it on my own. BUT, this man is really my family, and I still am afraid of not having anyone who would be there in the middle of the night. (perhaps another cognitive distortion of mine, bc I have a very strong circle of friends.) I hear you so loudly, OP. I think the best advice I can give is to trust yourself. Trust your body and your mind. Take your time. AND, meet with a lawyer. I did this too, and it was very empowering.

OP here. Ok pp since you are several years ahead of me in child-rearing you can answer some of my most pressing questions, which are how all of this affects the kids. This is really what worries me the most.

Did you feel a negative impact in the kids behavior? How do they handle conflict? Do they follow the model their father has shown them or do they know it's wrong? What could you do to mitigate the impact of DH's behavior? Did you ever put the kids in therapy?

How long has your DH been "working" on it? Is he in therapy? Are you in couples therapy? Has his behavior changed in the long term?

As a pp above suggests, I am giving it a little less than a year to see where I am emotionally. I am taking care of myself- ramping up my career, starting new hobbies. I would like to see the results of therapy for him, marriage counseling, and therapy for me (and possibly the kids). I cannot imagine wanting to be married to this man. I just can't. I haven't wanted to be married to him in a long, long time. I am in my late 30s, my kids are not yet in high school, and I think the sooner the better if they are going to adapt ot 50/50 custody. I would also like to find a new partner, eventually, but not for a long time.

OP - I just posted above about my emotional detachment. I'm 51 and I have two kids - one in high school and one in middle school. You sound like me 6-8 years ago (but I was early 40's). I'd divorce now and not look back. 15-20 more years of this is going to grind you into dust.

Thank you pp it is good to get this perspective.

And I don’t think you should regret that you stayed for the kids. You got to be there for them 100% of the time and there is no point on having regrets.

I am really not at the point where I am planning any sort of exit. I am giving myself a chance to repair our life together. I just feel in my heart like it won’t work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, having grown up in a home like this, then unconsciously repeated the pattern, listen to your gut but know that if he gets 50% and you are not there to buffer for the kids it may be worse for them. A narc is not going to let you move away or give up his "possessions" unless it is by HIS choice. There is no great outcome for the kids. There is no getting them into a safe environment 100% of the time and from that safety beginning to heal. The rage will come back when he gets tired of playing at "reformed." The kids anger will likely be directed at you as the "safe" parent when they get older no matter what. But if you bail for your "happiness" creating greater risk to their safety (and family courts do not do a great job protecting kids) you will have to live with that.

OP here- I genuinely do not think that he is a narcissist although I am not a psychologist and can't diagnose him either way. Based on how he has behaved for the last couple of months I really do think there has been a major behavioral change, which I see as a positive particularly for the kids. The shame of his parents, our closest friends, and our pastor all sort of asking him WTF was wrong with him was a big wakeup call.

But I feel he still doesn't "get" it. He doesn't get how damaging this was to our marriage. He truly doesn't understand how I wouldn't want to be with him since he is "good" now. He really does want a cookie or a trophy for being good for a few months, and sees any coldness or frustration from me as an insult.

I get it, OP. I'm the PP you are responding to. Whatever label you want to apply, he has changed due to his "image" being sullied and it is unlikely to last. He lacks empathy. You may get yourself out but your kids will be alone with a rager 50% of the time. As hard as the situation is for you as an adult, they will only have child coping skills. They will have feelings about that choice of yours. I'm not sure that you are getting that.

Consider getting the kids into something like Alateen as they get older. When they are adults they may benefit from Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. Lots of people there struggling to not become the abuser, continue as a victim and to process feelings about both parents and the choices they made. Your kids don't have any good choices on the table, OP, but some may be less bad. Best case is if non-abusive parent has enough $ and abuser moves on and loses interest, stars almost never align that way.

I think you could benefit from processing trauma with a trauma informed therapist. When it comes to the kids think in terms of trying to mitigate the harm in ways that you can control. Your framing of all of this as a romantic relationship, which is has not been for years, leaves out what you can do to buffer their well being. Or leave them to the rage. That choice is yours.

And men like your ex LOVE family court drama, playing victim and playing experts as they did their therapists. You are right, if he can control himself now, he could all along. He chose not to. Those days are likely to come again. He enjoyed misusing power and control over those closest to him. Some people are like that. Being dragged to family court constantly can become a new reality and it is harmful to kids. As long as their is still $$$, and financial forms are filed, the lawyers and experts are happy to bleed you both dry. He may not be shoving you at that stage but he might get off on putting your job at risk with frequent court summons, for example. Leopards don't change their spots, you are right about that. He is never going to have empathy for how he harmed you, he is not wired that way, nor would his ego allow it. So let that go and focus on the things that YOU have control over putting the well being of young KIDS first.

Try framing it as survival, for you and the kids - physically, mentally and financially. The romance framework serves no real purpose. That is not the life you have right now. The yellow rock framing poster had some really good advice.

Way to project, PP. You seem to be playing the expert to OP’s life, which is ironic.

OP needs to find herself an actual therapist to unpack the specific issues between her and her DH. She has to put in the work for herself.

[Anonymous]

Bumping this because the situation is similar to mine. My husband literally will say “don’t I get any credit” for whatever non-abusive thing he is doing at the moment, disregarding the abusive behaviors of decades. Like you, op, I love him like a relative.

I hope you come back with an update.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I could have written this. My DH used to yell on a daily basis, lots of controlling behavior (Ie flip out if seeing friends or 5 minutes late, no access to financial information or yelling if needed to go to the bathroom). I walked on eggshells. During COVID, he would open the door just to rage and I was left with the kids trying to make the best. He finally went to therapy and the yelling reduced. But through my own therapy and from friends and family concern. I realized it was emotionally abusive. I still love him but ultiemluy don’t feel emotional safety or in love or attraction. Couples therapy made it worse because now he is the victim because I am rejecting him but yet I need to heal and haven’t been able to repair. No real accountability on his part which makes me worry he could do this again as he did for almost a decade. In the process of divorce (hellish) with two kids and I work but I make way less than him in education and no generational wealth. It’s really scary and I go back and forth and self doubt. In the end we can try but it’s ok to have these feelings as trust has been broken and they haven’t necessarily earned it. What does your gut say?

Op here. I am so sorry that you are going through this too, pp. The bolded is what I worry about, because my husband often descends into a victim mentality. He is rather charismatic and I worry he will lull the couples counselor into thinking he is a harmless goofball. He is a very insecure, image-oriented person who always wants to be the life of the party and have people like him and always made us miserable at home.

It hurts because he didn’t shape up until he was shamed into it- the shock of *other people* telling him this was not acceptable behavior made him realize what he was doing was wrong, but years of me crying and telling him it was destroying my love for him and our marriage… not so much.

My gut has been saying to leave for months. For the sake of our children and the stability I thought I had built for them, I am trying to work this out.

NP. The bolded above really leaped out at me. OP, have you told him this, to his face, in exactly those words? Has this been part of couples therapy, your stating clearly and frankly that it took OTHERS' disapproval to move him toward change, when his own wife's tears and pleading could not? That is a profound wound to your emotions, your place in the family, your place in the marriage. It sounds like a profound wound that hasn't gotten anywhere near starting to heal.

Have you discussed this aspect of your feelings, without holding back? The fact that his wife wasn't enough of a spur to change, but the opinions of others were enough? He needs to have this made crystal clear and to take responsibility for being more focused on others' opinions than on the pleas of his life partner. I'd need to know that he recognized this issue AND was committed to never repeating it. Putting you ahead of others, basically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bumping this because the situation is similar to mine. My husband literally will say “don’t I get any credit” for whatever non-abusive thing he is doing at the moment, disregarding the abusive behaviors of decades. Like you, op, I love him like a relative.

I hope you come back with an update.

DP, not OP, but: Wow. That pretty much defines the victim mentality in an abuser who is supposedly trying to stop. Touch of the martyr there too. I'm so sorry. This must be beyond exhausting.

[Anonymous]

I recommend the book You are the One You’ve Been Waiting For (Internal Family Systems). It’s a compassionate explanation of what might have been going on inside him and what’s going on inside you, might give you more insight and perspective to how you are feeling. Sometimes our systems protect us by shutting us down and numbing our emotions.

I am in a very similar situation. My DH has untreated mental health issues and was very abusive within the last year. He is now calming down, going to counseling, etc. but I’m just weary and have trouble imagining the feelings coming back. At the same time we were separated for 6 months and I hated not seeing the kids all the time (we nested, so they didn’t know). Ugh. It’s all hard. Love yourself, care for yourself, and heal. The answer will become clear in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is ok to be done. Everything he is doing may just be too little, too late.

+1

This.
Plus OP, I am quite sure that you also have a ton of built-in resentment which is 💯% understandable at this point.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Wow I was surprised to see this bumped… reading it I am just now remembering how done I felt.

It has been very difficult. I honestly don’t know what kind of update to give. It feels like 3 steps forward, 2 steps back a lot of the time. My feelings towards DH are much better. Last week in particular, after months of being “good,” he returned to a lot of old behaviors, we had a big fight, and he finally agreed with the marriage counselor to do actual anger management and return to individual counselling (he had let it drop off, which really upset me).

Separation is now “on the table” and DH has agreed to temporarily leave if I ask him to. It is kind of sad because he had made a lot of progress and I was not interested in divorce anymore but I also can’t live with him if he isn’t vigilant over himself and can’t control these behaviors. But I’m not really angry at him anymore. I think I will always love him on some level even if we realize we can’t really make a good home together.

I’ve also had to acknowledge my own role in a very very toxic dynamic which is very hard.

I honestly don’t know what is going to happen. Not much of an update, I guess.

[Anonymous]

OP, I’m curious to know what you concluded your own role was. Can you share anything? I am in a very similar dynamic with my DH and I’ve wondered what, if anything, I may be doing to contribute to his random outbursts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m curious to know what you concluded your own role was. Can you share anything? I am in a very similar dynamic with my DH and I’ve wondered what, if anything, I may be doing to contribute to his random outbursts.

Basically (and this is only true of MY marriage, not yours), DH and I have been abusive to each other in different ways, we both cannot handle anger well. He may have random explosive anger but my anger is also there, simmering under the surface all the time, resentful for years of slights and cruelty and death by a thousand papercuts. So I was cruel too, in a “not yelling” way and sometimes by yelling as well.

My marriage may end anyway, because there are some words and actions you simply cannot take back, but I think we made a pretty heroic effort to make it work and I am glad we tried. I will be able to tell my kids that I really really tried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recommend the book You are the One You’ve Been Waiting For (Internal Family Systems). It’s a compassionate explanation of what might have been going on inside him and what’s going on inside you, might give you more insight and perspective to how you are feeling. Sometimes our systems protect us by shutting us down and numbing our emotions.

I am in a very similar situation. My DH has untreated mental health issues and was very abusive within the last year. He is now calming down, going to counseling, etc. but I’m just weary and have trouble imagining the feelings coming back. At the same time we were separated for 6 months and I hated not seeing the kids all the time (we nested, so they didn’t know). Ugh. It’s all hard. Love yourself, care for yourself, and heal. The answer will become clear in time.

OP thanks for the update. I really think this book might resonate with you and help reframe some of the challenges you’re both having. There is a free copy online at Internet Archive.

Wishing you healing.

[Anonymous]

I feel similarly (NP.) In my case, though, DH has realized he is autistic. That provided some relief initially but I am still mad at myself for not knowing earlier (which is an impossible thing) because we didn't know as much about autism back then.

So many of the outbursts and fights we have are related to autism and while I still find the disrespect unacceptable, my criticism of it and pushback provokes shame in him but also defensiveness so we never get anywhere because I'm "too critical." If I had known that 2-3 years in, he'd drop his mask I would have not entered into this. 20+ years and kids later, here we are and leaving is complicated.

I have always felt I should push back (verbally counter every condescending, critical comment) as a model for my kids in not accepting poor treatment but it seems to only make things worse.

For me, the love is gone (except the kind of love one has for relatives.) It's sad and I also feel bad for him because I think he did the best he could with the tools he had, not knowing most of his life that he had these challenges.