How do I shut down toxic positivity from friends in a nice way?

[Anonymous]

Friends aren’t given a manual for how to handle when someone you care deeply about is going through something traumatic and emotional. And often just being there for that person brings on emotional weight.

At the end of the day, either these people bring you enough support and kindness and insight to overlook this or they don’t. There’s no kind way to shut someone down who is saying something in an attempt to help you, so just ignore and reorient the conversation to another topic. Ask them about their life, what’s going on with them. Know that this person may bring you joy, but isn’t the person to go to in order to help you talk this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP should start from recognizing her own mistake marrying him. It's the worst: realization that you wasted a decade on a worthless person. But nobody but women themselves make these decisions to marry that person! I definitely saw the red flags (minor ones, like changing expensive private train car tickets to cheaper common car for a homeymoon, while he could totally afford it). But I ignored them and ended up with a cheap controlling multi millionaire as a husband who tracked my miserable earnings and spending, including parking fees.

When OP realizes she made a mistake, she will be ready to work on it and will meet the right person. Or not. But she will be happier.

Going to say it louder for those who have issues with complexity: not all abusers start off with red flags. In fact, many abusers are very careful about their conduct in the initial stages / years of a relationship. If you keep buying into this bizarre and inaccurate narrative that abused people “should have known” you are not only denying facts and stigmatizing victims, but making yourself susceptible to abuse yourself.

Educate yourself on abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

If you have a party and invite the convict from next door who was just released from prison for theft, what do you think will happen? Sure, random burglaries happen, but if you invite a thief into your home, you're going to get robbed. OP made a CHOICE of who to marry. She wasn't randomly assigned some guy. She picked him, and she picked him for a reason, probably a reason unknown to her. She can figure that part out. Don't be stupid PP.

Good grief. It’s almost like you’re intentionally leaning into being stupid. Abusers don’t have signs that they’re abusers. It’s not like the movies. They often are supremely charming, seem kind, are good looking and seem successful. Smarten up. One of the reasons child abusers often get away with it for so long is that idiots think all child abusers fit some creepy stereotype when in fact, they often seem like the “nice guy”.

[Anonymous]

I would say, thank you so much. I appreciate the positive thoughts. I hope they will manifest in the form of some concrete support -- I could really use a hand with (and lay it ALL out there). If they aren't just spouting platitudes, maybe you'll get some offers of help.

Unfortunately we live in a very individualistic society. "Positive think" is a way to give people a feeling they have control over their lives, when in actuality they lack a social safety net and community to help with those vulnerable moments. I do hope the best for you and your family, and at the same time I get what you're saying. You need to hold space for positive possibilities while being realistic about the challenges. Sending love your way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

If you have a party and invite the convict from next door who was just released from prison for theft, what do you think will happen? Sure, random burglaries happen, but if you invite a thief into your home, you're going to get robbed. OP made a CHOICE of who to marry. She wasn't randomly assigned some guy. She picked him, and she picked him for a reason, probably a reason unknown to her. She can figure that part out. Don't be stupid PP.

Good grief. It’s almost like you’re intentionally leaning into being stupid. Abusers don’t have signs that they’re abusers. It’s not like the movies. They often are supremely charming, seem kind, are good looking and seem successful. Smarten up. One of the reasons child abusers often get away with it for so long is that idiots think all child abusers fit some creepy stereotype when in fact, they often seem like the “nice guy”.

Stop infantilizing grown women. This is not about child abuse. Marrying someone just like your parents is not uncommon. In fact ti's pretty standard. If you had parents who were abusive and/or alcoholics, it would behoove you to figure out what you see in someone and why. Otherwise you'll just make the same poor choices again and again and again and say there were no red flags.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I appreciate your overall positive hopes for me, but what will help me the most right now is for you to just be to support me in putting one foot in front of the other, one day at a time."

Just tell them exactly what will be helpful to you--they'll want to know. Make it less about "don't do that" and more about "please do this."

Or save your "existential" worries and concerns for the therapist, and only confide in them for things they can actually help with: "I've got a crazy deadline at work and I'm worried that I won't be able to get a couple of decent dinners on the table this week. Is there any way I could trouble you to drop off a meal on Sunday?"

NP. This is an extremely good and useful post above, OP.

There's an excellent script to follow in the first line. Give them specifics of how to help you in concrete ways. And if you're reluctant to do so because of any thinking along lines of "I have to be strong, so I'm not about to ask someone to drop off a meal! etc." -- please reconsider. Well-meaning, loving, longtime friends often say placating things they hope will help, when they would actually love to be given hands-on things to DO.

And please consider reframing how you're looking at them and their statements. You could risk losing real and supportive friends if you go full "you're Pollyanna" on them. Of course it's a bit tone-deaf to talk to you now about "finding someone else" etc.! But that doesn't mean they are being "toxic" on purpose. That's pretty strong terminology and might say more about your (very understandable) sensitivies than about their intentions.

What have you said to your therapist about this aspect of your friendships? Can you work with the therapist on how to react to this, both in your own mind and when you talk to these well-meaning friends?

I think that if you follow PP's "less of 'don't do that,' more of 'please do this,'" you might find the comments are reduced. And you can always add, "I know you mean well when you talk about my finding someone else, but right now, I only want to get through each day, then each week. What I really could use would be help picking up Sally from the sitter's next Tuesday because I have an appointment with the lawyer. Do you think...." etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP should start from recognizing her own mistake marrying him. It's the worst: realization that you wasted a decade on a worthless person. But nobody but women themselves make these decisions to marry that person! I definitely saw the red flags (minor ones, like changing expensive private train car tickets to cheaper common car for a homeymoon, while he could totally afford it). But I ignored them and ended up with a cheap controlling multi millionaire as a husband who tracked my miserable earnings and spending, including parking fees.

When OP realizes she made a mistake, she will be ready to work on it and will meet the right person. Or not. But she will be happier.

OP, this is classic DCUM projection, where a PP projects her own circumstances onto an OP's situation, rather than actually addressing the OP's specific questions.

And PP, it is unhelpful to tell OTHER people they should have "seen the signs" before marriage. Sometimes, sure. But as another PP has pointed out: Many abusers do not present as abusive but as entirely the opposite. Your issues with your ex's financial control of you are worthy of your own therapy and do not apply to the OP's situation. I'm sorry your ex (and I hope he's an ex) is so controlling, but it does not help you or OP for you to blame women for their decisions, after the fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP should start from recognizing her own mistake marrying him. It's the worst: realization that you wasted a decade on a worthless person. But nobody but women themselves make these decisions to marry that person! I definitely saw the red flags (minor ones, like changing expensive private train car tickets to cheaper common car for a homeymoon, while he could totally afford it). But I ignored them and ended up with a cheap controlling multi millionaire as a husband who tracked my miserable earnings and spending, including parking fees.

When OP realizes she made a mistake, she will be ready to work on it and will meet the right person. Or not. But she will be happier.

OP, this is classic DCUM projection, where a PP projects her own circumstances onto an OP's situation, rather than actually addressing the OP's specific questions.

And PP, it is unhelpful to tell OTHER people they should have "seen the signs" before marriage. Sometimes, sure. But as another PP has pointed out: Many abusers do not present as abusive but as entirely the opposite. Your issues with your ex's financial control of you are worthy of your own therapy and do not apply to the OP's situation. I'm sorry your ex (and I hope he's an ex) is so controlling, but it does not help you or OP for you to blame women for their decisions, after the fact.

PP had a right to share her story. Why are you the gatekeeper? Even OP does not have a right to dictate how others respond to her post.

Others save said that with a lot of introspection, you can figure out how to avoid making the same mistake in the future. You have said over and over and over that there is no way to know beforehand whether someone is an abuser. You sound like the one projecting.

[Anonymous]

You have unrealistic expectation that these friends, who are not trained in providing mental health support, are going to know the right thing to say in this situation. Just tell them that you appreciate their hopes that things will ultimately work out for you, but you are going through a difficult time right now.

[Anonymous]

This is what many people do. I got a lot of it when I was diagnosed with cancer. They mean well, but it is a knee jerk, superficial response.

Really great friends/family listen to where YOU are at, and validate your feelings (unless they are destructive). But that is a high bar, and most people are average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tell them flat out, "I just want you to say, "Damn, this really sucks and is SO hard. I am SO sorry you're going through this."

Ask for what you need.

And when EVERYONE does that, she'll make another post saying that she has THE most unsupportive friends. 🙄

You're exhausting OP.
You have great friends who have been supportive towards you for the last 5 years of being with an alcoholic abuser... most friends would have long dropped you by now, as it would be hard on their mental health to see/hear you go through this for so long, but never leaving him... and now you want top tailor make the support you'll allow them to give you?

Be thankful you have friends who've continued to support you -- you have no idea how lucky you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

You're right, it wasn't an odd analogy -- it was a ridiculous, nonsensical analogy.

Unless OP was in an arranged marriage, the OP made the CHOICE to marry her husband... a woman who is raped did NOT have a choice in the matter.

What a f@cked up comparison to make.

There's something wrong with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what many people do. I got a lot of it when I was diagnosed with cancer. They mean well, but it is a knee jerk, superficial response.

Really great friends/family listen to where YOU are at, and validate your feelings (unless they are destructive). But that is a high bar, and most people are average.

Maybe that’s all you are looking for, but I look for friends that lift me up, cheer me up, help me to see the possible, offer up solutions. Maybe OP just doesn’t have the right friends for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

NP.

Every single woman I know with problems in her marriage ( pretty much all of us because no one is perfect) had most of these problems before marriage.

It's pretty bad timing to be talking about this now, but OP needs to reflect on how she missed those signs. It's rude to bring this up now because OP is asking an unrelated question. But let's not pretend that many of OPs husbands character flaws appeared about of nowhere. They were there from the beginning.

Most human beings are somewhat decent. If you marry a completely useless one, you ignored the signs. These people are not capable of hiding who they truly are for more than a couple of weeks/ months.

My experience - my actual lived experience - is different than what you’ve described. Moreover, with abuse, the “signs” are often fleeting and easily normalized at first. My husband was doting, complimentary, and adoring for the first year of our dating. I barely saw him drink and when he did it was a beer or a glass of wine. But the water gets hot slowly and I can assure you that this is part of how abusers operate by design.

But I digress - I’m not going to defend myself. Just know that the trope of “she should have known better” is what keeps this kind of cycle going for current and future victims and is a superficial take on the research behind abuse, at best.

It takes years to birth 3 kids . When did he become abusive drunkard ?

I had a typo up thread. It’s two children in ES and they’re twins. It took about 38 weeks to gestate them. So no, a little less than a year.

Ok, so now it's 2 children and not 3. This explains it. Please, do go to a therapist

You have reading comprehension issues. The OP stated from the start that she has two kids. There was one post I think where she mentions three - clearly a typo. Maybe you go to therapy and get some tutoring in reading fundamentals.

My, my, my, aren't you overly defensive towards someone you've never met? 🤔
Good God, relax... OP.
Stop getting so defensive.
Or, are you now going to demand that *WE* provide you with the only kind of support that you'll accept?
Let me guess, is it the kind where everyone agrees with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what many people do. I got a lot of it when I was diagnosed with cancer. They mean well, but it is a knee jerk, superficial response.

Really great friends/family listen to where YOU are at, and validate your feelings (unless they are destructive). But that is a high bar, and most people are average.

Maybe that’s all you are looking for, but I look for friends that lift me up, cheer me up, help me to see the possible, offer up solutions. Maybe OP just doesn’t have the right friends for her.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the first part you wrote.
As far as the second part... maybe OP is just too demanding with the type of "support" she'll allow/accept?