How do I shut down toxic positivity from friends in a nice way?

[Anonymous]

Huh???

I left a domestic violence situation and can confidently tell you it's 100% better and being a single parent isn'tthat hard or dismal. I'm not sure why you feel the need to have and hold your negative talk track, but you need to continue to work with the therapist.

Fwiw I remarried a wonderful man and have never looked back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Huh???

I left a domestic violence situation and can confidently tell you it's 100% better and being a single parent isn'tthat hard or dismal. I'm not sure why you feel the need to have and hold your negative talk track, but you need to continue to work with the therapist.

Fwiw I remarried a wonderful man and have never looked back.

OP is very invested in her status as a victim. That’s part of why her friends’ response is so distressing, OP is afraid that once the divorce is finalized people will stop seeing her as a victim and she won’t be able to use it as an excuse anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just tell them: "I know what you're saying, but it feels impossible right now to even think about that. I just need to vent about how I'm feeling right now."

But also consider whether you might be wallowing in your feelings when you're around them. If all you're doing is going on and on about how hard life will be, it can be a bit much even for wonderful friends who genuinely want to help.

If the decision to divorce has taken five years, it is very likely they are over the discussions. They are ready for you to be in a better place. Please take a long hard look at how often you are venting about your situation. More of that needs to be directed at your therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

There is a huge difference between events of rape and home invasion versus a well-off woman living with an alcoholic. Or marrying an alcoholic or someone who didn’t appear like he would be a great partner from get go. Marriage abs staying in it for years, birthing children is within OP control. Attracts from strangers are outside her control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh???

I left a domestic violence situation and can confidently tell you it's 100% better and being a single parent isn'tthat hard or dismal. I'm not sure why you feel the need to have and hold your negative talk track, but you need to continue to work with the therapist.

Fwiw I remarried a wonderful man and have never looked back.

OP is very invested in her status as a victim. That’s part of why her friends’ response is so distressing, OP is afraid that once the divorce is finalized people will stop seeing her as a victim and she won’t be able to use it as an excuse anymore.

What the hell are you talking about? Sorry, but if you’re joining this thread to be a jerk, please go away. I’m in no way relishing victimhood but it can also be frustrating to have friends negate some of the real challenges I’m facing. For example, a friend this morning suggesting maybe I’ll get an inheritance so I’ll be more comfortable in retirement …. that’s not a reality and sure, would be nice. But that’s not going to happen.

That said, as others have pointed out, I realize this friend means well and will keep that front and center.

But back to your unkind post. Please stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

NP. Did the therapist choose the rapist? OP is not to blame for her abuse, but there are many, many documented dynamics that make a woman more likely to choose and/or stay with an abuser. To deny that is to deny numerous studies and documentation. These factors include growing up with abusers, suffering from substance addiction oneself, etc.

I’m the OP. I’ve been in therapy most of my adult life to address, among other issues, my marriage and dynamics of my childhood that may have contributed to me marrying “such a man”. The fact is, yes, I grew up in a home with a very functional but nonetheless alcoholic mother who could also be abusive. But the other part of the equation is that abusers - particularly those like my husband - very often start off as charming, kind, loving, and doting. The red flags are elusive, especially if you don’t understand the way abuse works (cycles, etc). Once the abuse became apparent - as did the drinking - it was hard to leave with three young kids. I had no family, little money (at the time my husband controlled all of our money), and the options were sleeping in a car (that’s not a very safe / easy thing when you’ve got two toddlers in tow and are trying to make it to your job in the morning to keep some money coming in). Also, my husband could be really scary. I worried about him hunting me down in his rages. I still do.

Add to that the kinds of comments like yours - your insinuation is that somehow I brought this on myself and I need to figure out what’s broken in me to address that. I wholeheartedly reject that and feel confident you don’t have much first-hand education or expertise in this realm to assert that. The “numerous studies” support my perspective and no, I’m not going to go deep on that here.

But your comment is the kind that shuts people down, shames them, and makes it harder for victims to come forward. How many times did I hear that if I was smarter, nicer, prettier, more successful, I wouldn’t be in a relationship like the one I was in? No, I didn’t bring this on myself and yes, I’m doing all the work to recover and ensure I don’t end up with another person - in any capacity - who resembles my husband. But please be more considerate because your insinuation isn’t just uneducated, it’s harmful.

OP - didn’t you see the red flags after the first baby? Why did you continue having babies with him? I lived with an abusive (but very rich) husband for 15 years. He showed the true colors on a 2nd year of marriage, when our only child was new born. I didn’t have any reservations about my exH and took full responsibility for staying with him. I did it for money: had no job, wouldn’t have a nice house or a school for my child if we divorced before I stood up; didn’t have family in the US to support me.
Once I started earning enough, I left and it took 13 more years. But I didn’t have more children with him knowing I would leave

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

NP.

Every single woman I know with problems in her marriage ( pretty much all of us because no one is perfect) had most of these problems before marriage.

It's pretty bad timing to be talking about this now, but OP needs to reflect on how she missed those signs. It's rude to bring this up now because OP is asking an unrelated question. But let's not pretend that many of OPs husbands character flaws appeared about of nowhere. They were there from the beginning.

Most human beings are somewhat decent. If you marry a completely useless one, you ignored the signs. These people are not capable of hiding who they truly are for more than a couple of weeks/ months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If life will be so much worse post-divorce, then call off the divorce and stay married. Otherwise the whining gets really tedious.

I’m not whining and as I’ve noted in my initial post, I rarely if ever discuss my concerns with my friends. Prior to my divorce, I didn’t discuss my situation with many people at all. It was a source of tremendous shame and sadness. I didn’t want to be judged. I kept/keep all of that for my therapist.

At the same time, for example, people will ask how I’m doing or ask how I’m feeling. On a rare occasion with my closest friends, I answer that honestly. Usually that answer is a mix of relief and sadness and worry. I don’t think that mixture is a strange one for people in my place and I’m confident aspects of that will shift with time.

That said, when people respond with statements like the ones I’ve shared, it can be hard to hear. But yes, grateful for my friends and also appreciate the posters who’ve reminded me their intent is what matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

NP.

Every single woman I know with problems in her marriage ( pretty much all of us because no one is perfect) had most of these problems before marriage.

It's pretty bad timing to be talking about this now, but OP needs to reflect on how she missed those signs. It's rude to bring this up now because OP is asking an unrelated question. But let's not pretend that many of OPs husbands character flaws appeared about of nowhere. They were there from the beginning.

Most human beings are somewhat decent. If you marry a completely useless one, you ignored the signs. These people are not capable of hiding who they truly are for more than a couple of weeks/ months.

My experience - my actual lived experience - is different than what you’ve described. Moreover, with abuse, the “signs” are often fleeting and easily normalized at first. My husband was doting, complimentary, and adoring for the first year of our dating. I barely saw him drink and when he did it was a beer or a glass of wine. But the water gets hot slowly and I can assure you that this is part of how abusers operate by design.

But I digress - I’m not going to defend myself. Just know that the trope of “she should have known better” is what keeps this kind of cycle going for current and future victims and is a superficial take on the research behind abuse, at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

NP.

Every single woman I know with problems in her marriage ( pretty much all of us because no one is perfect) had most of these problems before marriage.

It's pretty bad timing to be talking about this now, but OP needs to reflect on how she missed those signs. It's rude to bring this up now because OP is asking an unrelated question. But let's not pretend that many of OPs husbands character flaws appeared about of nowhere. They were there from the beginning.

Most human beings are somewhat decent. If you marry a completely useless one, you ignored the signs. These people are not capable of hiding who they truly are for more than a couple of weeks/ months.

My experience - my actual lived experience - is different than what you’ve described. Moreover, with abuse, the “signs” are often fleeting and easily normalized at first. My husband was doting, complimentary, and adoring for the first year of our dating. I barely saw him drink and when he did it was a beer or a glass of wine. But the water gets hot slowly and I can assure you that this is part of how abusers operate by design.

But I digress - I’m not going to defend myself. Just know that the trope of “she should have known better” is what keeps this kind of cycle going for current and future victims and is a superficial take on the research behind abuse, at best.

It takes years to birth 3 kids . When did he become abusive drunkard ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

NP. Did the therapist choose the rapist? OP is not to blame for her abuse, but there are many, many documented dynamics that make a woman more likely to choose and/or stay with an abuser. To deny that is to deny numerous studies and documentation. These factors include growing up with abusers, suffering from substance addiction oneself, etc.

I’m the OP. I’ve been in therapy most of my adult life to address, among other issues, my marriage and dynamics of my childhood that may have contributed to me marrying “such a man”. The fact is, yes, I grew up in a home with a very functional but nonetheless alcoholic mother who could also be abusive. But the other part of the equation is that abusers - particularly those like my husband - very often start off as charming, kind, loving, and doting. The red flags are elusive, especially if you don’t understand the way abuse works (cycles, etc). Once the abuse became apparent - as did the drinking - it was hard to leave with three young kids. I had no family, little money (at the time my husband controlled all of our money), and the options were sleeping in a car (that’s not a very safe / easy thing when you’ve got two toddlers in tow and are trying to make it to your job in the morning to keep some money coming in). Also, my husband could be really scary. I worried about him hunting me down in his rages. I still do.

Add to that the kinds of comments like yours - your insinuation is that somehow I brought this on myself and I need to figure out what’s broken in me to address that. I wholeheartedly reject that and feel confident you don’t have much first-hand education or expertise in this realm to assert that. The “numerous studies” support my perspective and no, I’m not going to go deep on that here.

But your comment is the kind that shuts people down, shames them, and makes it harder for victims to come forward. How many times did I hear that if I was smarter, nicer, prettier, more successful, I wouldn’t be in a relationship like the one I was in? No, I didn’t bring this on myself and yes, I’m doing all the work to recover and ensure I don’t end up with another person - in any capacity - who resembles my husband. But please be more considerate because your insinuation isn’t just uneducated, it’s harmful.

OP - didn’t you see the red flags after the first baby? Why did you continue having babies with him? I lived with an abusive (but very rich) husband for 15 years. He showed the true colors on a 2nd year of marriage, when our only child was new born. I didn’t have any reservations about my exH and took full responsibility for staying with him. I did it for money: had no job, wouldn’t have a nice house or a school for my child if we divorced before I stood up; didn’t have family in the US to support me.
Once I started earning enough, I left and it took 13 more years. But I didn’t have more children with him knowing I would leave

My two kids are twins. So I “didn’t keep having babies with him”. Good for you for doing everything the right way with full knowledge and ownership of every decision you were making and with such insight into the big picture. Really amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

NP.

Every single woman I know with problems in her marriage ( pretty much all of us because no one is perfect) had most of these problems before marriage.

It's pretty bad timing to be talking about this now, but OP needs to reflect on how she missed those signs. It's rude to bring this up now because OP is asking an unrelated question. But let's not pretend that many of OPs husbands character flaws appeared about of nowhere. They were there from the beginning.

Most human beings are somewhat decent. If you marry a completely useless one, you ignored the signs. These people are not capable of hiding who they truly are for more than a couple of weeks/ months.

My experience - my actual lived experience - is different than what you’ve described. Moreover, with abuse, the “signs” are often fleeting and easily normalized at first. My husband was doting, complimentary, and adoring for the first year of our dating. I barely saw him drink and when he did it was a beer or a glass of wine. But the water gets hot slowly and I can assure you that this is part of how abusers operate by design.

But I digress - I’m not going to defend myself. Just know that the trope of “she should have known better” is what keeps this kind of cycle going for current and future victims and is a superficial take on the research behind abuse, at best.

It takes years to birth 3 kids . When did he become abusive drunkard ?

I had a typo up thread. It’s two children in ES and they’re twins. It took about 38 weeks to gestate them. So no, a little less than a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

NP.

Every single woman I know with problems in her marriage ( pretty much all of us because no one is perfect) had most of these problems before marriage.

It's pretty bad timing to be talking about this now, but OP needs to reflect on how she missed those signs. It's rude to bring this up now because OP is asking an unrelated question. But let's not pretend that many of OPs husbands character flaws appeared about of nowhere. They were there from the beginning.

Most human beings are somewhat decent. If you marry a completely useless one, you ignored the signs. These people are not capable of hiding who they truly are for more than a couple of weeks/ months.

My experience - my actual lived experience - is different than what you’ve described. Moreover, with abuse, the “signs” are often fleeting and easily normalized at first. My husband was doting, complimentary, and adoring for the first year of our dating. I barely saw him drink and when he did it was a beer or a glass of wine. But the water gets hot slowly and I can assure you that this is part of how abusers operate by design.

But I digress - I’m not going to defend myself. Just know that the trope of “she should have known better” is what keeps this kind of cycle going for current and future victims and is a superficial take on the research behind abuse, at best.

It takes years to birth 3 kids . When did he become abusive drunkard ?

The abuse became really pronounced during my pregnancy. And then things got better. And then it became even worse. I think your post suggest a lack of insight and understanding of how abuse “works”. You may also be trolling. Regardless, signing off for now. I think, unfortunately, this thread has started to swirl in “toxic toxicity” .

Thanks to all of the posters who provided genuinely kind, insightful, and thought-provoking posts. It’s what I needed and had helped me reframe what I’m hearing from friends.

Best of luck to all and especially those who are facing hard times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a similar situation with friends during my divorce. One of them always told that my ExH and I would not even divorce and will always be together. While I was fighting him in courts.

I just told them the topic of my divorce is off the table and I didn’t want to discuss anything related to him with my friends.

OP, how did you manage to marry such a guy ? I would work with a therapist addressing the issues that made you marry him in the first place.

Curious, would you suggest to a woman who was raped to work with a therapist to address the issues that made the guy rape her?

That is a really odd analogy.

It is not an odd analogy.

If I beat you up, it's not your fault for not taking a karate class since age 6, although that sure would help avoid the situation.
If I get into your house and steal your valuables, it's not your fault for not having triple alarms and 5 pitbulls around, although that sure would help avoid the situation.

All this therapy talk is women trying to tell themselves that this would never happen to them, because they are somehow immune - they did not grow up with abusive parents or whatever it us that they think protects them. The only thing that can protect you is the ability to walk away, which is what OP is already doing. No need to pile up.

NP.

Every single woman I know with problems in her marriage ( pretty much all of us because no one is perfect) had most of these problems before marriage.

It's pretty bad timing to be talking about this now, but OP needs to reflect on how she missed those signs. It's rude to bring this up now because OP is asking an unrelated question. But let's not pretend that many of OPs husbands character flaws appeared about of nowhere. They were there from the beginning.

Most human beings are somewhat decent. If you marry a completely useless one, you ignored the signs. These people are not capable of hiding who they truly are for more than a couple of weeks/ months.

My experience - my actual lived experience - is different than what you’ve described. Moreover, with abuse, the “signs” are often fleeting and easily normalized at first. My husband was doting, complimentary, and adoring for the first year of our dating. I barely saw him drink and when he did it was a beer or a glass of wine. But the water gets hot slowly and I can assure you that this is part of how abusers operate by design.

But I digress - I’m not going to defend myself. Just know that the trope of “she should have known better” is what keeps this kind of cycle going for current and future victims and is a superficial take on the research behind abuse, at best.

It takes years to birth 3 kids . When did he become abusive drunkard ?

I had a typo up thread. It’s two children in ES and they’re twins. It took about 38 weeks to gestate them. So no, a little less than a year.

Ok, so now it's 2 children and not 3. This explains it. Please, do go to a therapist

[Anonymous]

Now I have officially heard everything.