How to comfort friend after disappointing delivery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It's not about the doctors being negligent. It's not even about the c-section.

It's about, Doctors need to treat their maternity patients like human beings who have feelings and who experience things other than complete and total joy related to childbirth. If you can understand that going from a car crash to an emergency surgery to a long recovery could result in significant trauma (after all, you were supposed to just arrive at Point B in the car and go about your life), you should be able to understand that an emergency in childbirth (whether its a c-section, a hemorrhage, baby emergency, vacuum, forceps, WHATEVER) can ALSO result in trauma. And mothers who go through traumatic birthing experiences should be treated like a person who went through a trauma, with sensitivity and respect for their healing. Childbirth can be scary when it goes in a "textbook" fashion, and when it doesn't can be very frightening and traumatic. Having a supportive medical team, supportive family and friends, makes that trauma a lot easier to process.

Saying, "But baby is healthy and you're fine too so just be happy!" ignores the human response to trauma. And it doesn't work. Not everyone will find the same things traumatic, and sometimes (not always) that is a result of having a more supportive team and network.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

If you read the thread you will also hear about people having serious fertility issues post c-section. Unless OPs friend is for sure finished, she doesn’t know she isn’t injured. She’s not out of the woods yet on complications on recovery either, and OP certainly hasn’t been back to say one way or the other (and given OPs initial attitude I doubt she’d be back here saying “oh yeah my friend was just readmitted and is now separated from her baby”)

Patients can be disappointed with medical procedures that don’t end in death. There are many disappointing outcomes that can result from birth and diminishing them and saying, as posters in this thread do, that no one who didn’t die or lose their baby has anything to be disappointed about, is sexist and just incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who had a very tough labor and delivery - was in labor for almost 48 hours before an emergency c-section. She had done a lot of research and really wanted a vaginal birth - she hired a doula and wanted to keep going even when things weren't progressing (hence the 48 hours). Her husband is my friend too and told me she is really upset about how it ended up and he thinks may be causing (or at least contributing to) PPD, along with struggles breastfeeding. She is a pretty type A/anxious person and really wants to do things "right" (I'm putting it in quotes because I know there is no "right" or "wrong" way to deliver).

I would like to reach out to her and be supportive. I don't want to minimize her experience but I also want her to know it isn't some big disaster that she had a c-section. As a mom of two kids I know that the birth experience seems all-important at the time, but it quickly loses relevance compared to first smiles, first steps, first days of school, etc.

Any suggestions for supportive things to say that aren't condescending or dismissive?

If the baby is healthy then it doesn't make a bit of difference how it was born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

If you read the thread you will also hear about people having serious fertility issues post c-section. Unless OPs friend is for sure finished, she doesn’t know she isn’t injured. She’s not out of the woods yet on complications on recovery either, and OP certainly hasn’t been back to say one way or the other (and given OPs initial attitude I doubt she’d be back here saying “oh yeah my friend was just readmitted and is now separated from her baby”)

Patients can be disappointed with medical procedures that don’t end in death. There are many disappointing outcomes that can result from birth and diminishing them and saying, as posters in this thread do, that no one who didn’t die or lose their baby has anything to be disappointed about, is sexist and just incorrect.

But to pretend that you didn't know that 25 percent of US deliveries end up as c-sections is just flat out naive. It's fine to be disappointed but the fact that people are ending up with PTSD indicates that they are delusional about what is involved in giving birth. The vast majority of women who have c-sections go on to have healthy subsequent pregnancies if they dob't have other fertility issues. And it's actually the OPPOSITE of sexist to wonder what it is we need to do to have people understand the risks and outcomes of pregnancy. We are doing them an incredible disservice if they are coming out of the delivery room feeling traumatized by a c-section.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who had a very tough labor and delivery - was in labor for almost 48 hours before an emergency c-section. She had done a lot of research and really wanted a vaginal birth - she hired a doula and wanted to keep going even when things weren't progressing (hence the 48 hours). Her husband is my friend too and told me she is really upset about how it ended up and he thinks may be causing (or at least contributing to) PPD, along with struggles breastfeeding. She is a pretty type A/anxious person and really wants to do things "right" (I'm putting it in quotes because I know there is no "right" or "wrong" way to deliver).

I would like to reach out to her and be supportive. I don't want to minimize her experience but I also want her to know it isn't some big disaster that she had a c-section. As a mom of two kids I know that the birth experience seems all-important at the time, but it quickly loses relevance compared to first smiles, first steps, first days of school, etc.

Any suggestions for supportive things to say that aren't condescending or dismissive?

If the baby is healthy then it doesn't make a bit of difference how it was born.

How invalidating. As someone would a traumatic birth where my inlaws just didn’t ask how I was but instead fawned over the baby, I can tell you that it certainly does matter. I will never forget how I was left alone and felt insignificant to others. The baby’s entire family matters. Especially the mother who birthed the baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

If you read the thread you will also hear about people having serious fertility issues post c-section. Unless OPs friend is for sure finished, she doesn’t know she isn’t injured. She’s not out of the woods yet on complications on recovery either, and OP certainly hasn’t been back to say one way or the other (and given OPs initial attitude I doubt she’d be back here saying “oh yeah my friend was just readmitted and is now separated from her baby”)

Patients can be disappointed with medical procedures that don’t end in death. There are many disappointing outcomes that can result from birth and diminishing them and saying, as posters in this thread do, that no one who didn’t die or lose their baby has anything to be disappointed about, is sexist and just incorrect.

But to pretend that you didn't know that 25 percent of US deliveries end up as c-sections is just flat out naive. It's fine to be disappointed but the fact that people are ending up with PTSD indicates that they are delusional about what is involved in giving birth. The vast majority of women who have c-sections go on to have healthy subsequent pregnancies if they dob't have other fertility issues. And it's actually the OPPOSITE of sexist to wonder what it is we need to do to have people understand the risks and outcomes of pregnancy. We are doing them an incredible disservice if they are coming out of the delivery room feeling traumatized by a c-section.

The 25% number is well known— however— the experts (ACOG and others) believe that this number is too high and contributes to the high maternal mortality rate in the U.S. Having a riskier procedure than planned, with unknown future implications is something that would upset many people in cases that aren’t c-sections.

I think what we need to do is get the U.S. maternal mortality rate down near other developed countries, and have a less perverse incentive system when it comes to what procedures what patients receive. This thread was supposed to be about how to offer support, though, not criticize mothers trauma if they differ from your own experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who had a very tough labor and delivery - was in labor for almost 48 hours before an emergency c-section. She had done a lot of research and really wanted a vaginal birth - she hired a doula and wanted to keep going even when things weren't progressing (hence the 48 hours). Her husband is my friend too and told me she is really upset about how it ended up and he thinks may be causing (or at least contributing to) PPD, along with struggles breastfeeding. She is a pretty type A/anxious person and really wants to do things "right" (I'm putting it in quotes because I know there is no "right" or "wrong" way to deliver).

I would like to reach out to her and be supportive. I don't want to minimize her experience but I also want her to know it isn't some big disaster that she had a c-section. As a mom of two kids I know that the birth experience seems all-important at the time, but it quickly loses relevance compared to first smiles, first steps, first days of school, etc.

Any suggestions for supportive things to say that aren't condescending or dismissive?

If the baby is healthy then it doesn't make a bit of difference how it was born.

How invalidating. As someone would a traumatic birth where my inlaws just didn’t ask how I was but instead fawned over the baby, I can tell you that it certainly does matter. I will never forget how I was left alone and felt insignificant to others. The baby’s entire family matters. Especially the mother who birthed the baby.

PP is helpful though in understanding just how little people care about women’s health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

If you read the thread you will also hear about people having serious fertility issues post c-section. Unless OPs friend is for sure finished, she doesn’t know she isn’t injured. She’s not out of the woods yet on complications on recovery either, and OP certainly hasn’t been back to say one way or the other (and given OPs initial attitude I doubt she’d be back here saying “oh yeah my friend was just readmitted and is now separated from her baby”)

Patients can be disappointed with medical procedures that don’t end in death. There are many disappointing outcomes that can result from birth and diminishing them and saying, as posters in this thread do, that no one who didn’t die or lose their baby has anything to be disappointed about, is sexist and just incorrect.

But to pretend that you didn't know that 25 percent of US deliveries end up as c-sections is just flat out naive. It's fine to be disappointed but the fact that people are ending up with PTSD indicates that they are delusional about what is involved in giving birth. The vast majority of women who have c-sections go on to have healthy subsequent pregnancies if they dob't have other fertility issues. And it's actually the OPPOSITE of sexist to wonder what it is we need to do to have people understand the risks and outcomes of pregnancy. We are doing them an incredible disservice if they are coming out of the delivery room feeling traumatized by a c-section.

How dare you conflate "too posh to push" c sections, or scheduled c sections for a breech, with an emergency c section after 2 days of failed labor. You are a bad person and you should feel bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who had a very tough labor and delivery - was in labor for almost 48 hours before an emergency c-section. She had done a lot of research and really wanted a vaginal birth - she hired a doula and wanted to keep going even when things weren't progressing (hence the 48 hours). Her husband is my friend too and told me she is really upset about how it ended up and he thinks may be causing (or at least contributing to) PPD, along with struggles breastfeeding. She is a pretty type A/anxious person and really wants to do things "right" (I'm putting it in quotes because I know there is no "right" or "wrong" way to deliver).

I would like to reach out to her and be supportive. I don't want to minimize her experience but I also want her to know it isn't some big disaster that she had a c-section. As a mom of two kids I know that the birth experience seems all-important at the time, but it quickly loses relevance compared to first smiles, first steps, first days of school, etc.

Any suggestions for supportive things to say that aren't condescending or dismissive?

If the baby is healthy then it doesn't make a bit of difference how it was born.

How invalidating. As someone would a traumatic birth where my inlaws just didn’t ask how I was but instead fawned over the baby, I can tell you that it certainly does matter. I will never forget how I was left alone and felt insignificant to others. The baby’s entire family matters. Especially the mother who birthed the baby.

Your mother and husband might care about you but everyone else only cares about baby
Also, it is only the first that is gushed over. Giving birth is what women do and is not special nor an achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

If you read the thread you will also hear about people having serious fertility issues post c-section. Unless OPs friend is for sure finished, she doesn’t know she isn’t injured. She’s not out of the woods yet on complications on recovery either, and OP certainly hasn’t been back to say one way or the other (and given OPs initial attitude I doubt she’d be back here saying “oh yeah my friend was just readmitted and is now separated from her baby”)

Patients can be disappointed with medical procedures that don’t end in death. There are many disappointing outcomes that can result from birth and diminishing them and saying, as posters in this thread do, that no one who didn’t die or lose their baby has anything to be disappointed about, is sexist and just incorrect.

OP here. My friend has not been readmitted and doesn't have complications beyond what is normal for recovering from a c-section. Not sure what you mean about my "attitude" but w/e.

I actually talked to her and her husband last night over FaceTime. (I haven't had a chance to talk to her one-on-one). She didn't bring up the birth, but was very focused on breastfeeding issues, which she is struggling with. It seems like maybe some of the energy she had been directing at the birth is now directed at breastfeeding...maybe an improvement, maybe not. Anyway, I will still try to talk to her one-on-one to see if she wants to talk about the birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

Poor coping

[Anonymous]

To the "LOL whatever" heroes:

Researchers found that women who had at least one birth and a hysterectomy, were 50 percent more likely to have delivered their baby by C-section than the general population

https://www.ariadnelabs.org/resources/articles/study-tracks-long-term-health-risks-to-women-after-having-a-c-section/

Approximately 69% of women who delivered by C-section conceived after unprotected intercourse compared to approximately 78% of women who delivered vaginally. Women who delivered by C-section also had a reduced likelihood of a live birth.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200709141545.htm

This meta-analysis finds a clinically relevant incidence of chronic post surgical pain 'wound' after caesarean section ranging from 15% at 3 months to 11% at 12 months or longer that has been largely stable in recent years.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27756207/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who had a very tough labor and delivery - was in labor for almost 48 hours before an emergency c-section. She had done a lot of research and really wanted a vaginal birth - she hired a doula and wanted to keep going even when things weren't progressing (hence the 48 hours). Her husband is my friend too and told me she is really upset about how it ended up and he thinks may be causing (or at least contributing to) PPD, along with struggles breastfeeding. She is a pretty type A/anxious person and really wants to do things "right" (I'm putting it in quotes because I know there is no "right" or "wrong" way to deliver).

I would like to reach out to her and be supportive. I don't want to minimize her experience but I also want her to know it isn't some big disaster that she had a c-section. As a mom of two kids I know that the birth experience seems all-important at the time, but it quickly loses relevance compared to first smiles, first steps, first days of school, etc.

Any suggestions for supportive things to say that aren't condescending or dismissive?

If the baby is healthy then it doesn't make a bit of difference how it was born.

How invalidating. As someone would a traumatic birth where my inlaws just didn’t ask how I was but instead fawned over the baby, I can tell you that it certainly does matter. I will never forget how I was left alone and felt insignificant to others. The baby’s entire family matters. Especially the mother who birthed the baby.

Your mother and husband might care about you but everyone else only cares about baby
Also, it is only the first that is gushed over. Giving birth is what women do and is not special nor an achievement.

That's right. A woman giving birth is comparable to a man dropping a turd in the toilet.