How to comfort friend after disappointing delivery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

If you read the thread you will also hear about people having serious fertility issues post c-section. Unless OPs friend is for sure finished, she doesn’t know she isn’t injured. She’s not out of the woods yet on complications on recovery either, and OP certainly hasn’t been back to say one way or the other (and given OPs initial attitude I doubt she’d be back here saying “oh yeah my friend was just readmitted and is now separated from her baby”)

Patients can be disappointed with medical procedures that don’t end in death. There are many disappointing outcomes that can result from birth and diminishing them and saying, as posters in this thread do, that no one who didn’t die or lose their baby has anything to be disappointed about, is sexist and just incorrect.

OP here. My friend has not been readmitted and doesn't have complications beyond what is normal for recovering from a c-section. Not sure what you mean about my "attitude" but w/e.

I actually talked to her and her husband last night over FaceTime. (I haven't had a chance to talk to her one-on-one). She didn't bring up the birth, but was very focused on breastfeeding issues, which she is struggling with. It seems like maybe some of the energy she had been directing at the birth is now directed at breastfeeding...maybe an improvement, maybe not. Anyway, I will still try to talk to her one-on-one to see if she wants to talk about the birth.

Women who delivered by emergency c-section were found to have a higher proportion of breastfeeding difficulties (41 %), and used more resources before (67 %) and after (58 %) leaving the hospital, when compared to vaginal delivery (29 %, 40 %, and 52 %, respectively) or planned c-sections (33 %, 49 %, and 41 %, respectively). Women who delivered with a planned c-section were more likely (OR = 1.61; 95 % CI: 1.14, 2.26; p = 0.014) to discontinue breastfeeding before 12 weeks postpartum compared to those who delivered vaginally, controlling for income, education, parity, preterm birth, maternal physical and mental health, ethnicity and breastfeeding difficulties.

https://bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12884-016-0876-1

BTW are we allowed to have a preference on breastfeeding vs. formula? Or do I have anxiety/depression/whatever if I prefer breastfeeding? Please, give me your wisdom, DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how is the baby OP? Isn’t that the most important part of the story?

WTF. It is AN important part of the story, but *uck you for implying that people shouldn't have feelings about how their birth went as long as their baby is fine.

This is a really, really common way to try to convince women that the lowest possible bar for success is also the highest possible standard of excellence.

Standards of excellence? You think we should be giving women gold stars for their excellent child birthing sills or something?

No, I think we should stop giving doctors participation trophies for having living patients at the end of the procedure. There is no other medical procedure that a result of ”you’re not dead!” Is supposed to be good enough.

It's a very strange take to make veiled suggestions that the doctors were somehow in the wrong here. It doesn't sound like there was anything medically wrong with the birth. There's no suggestion in the OP or any follow-up that the doctors did anything other than excellent work. But your post suggests that, if the mother is unhappy with the way the birth experience turned out, it is the doctor's fault? Is there any other medical procedure where the physicians are held responsible for the feelings of the patient after a successful procedure?

Mother is healthy, baby is healthy. No complications are reported by OP, and no negligence by the medical staff. If that's not good enough for you, what would be, and how would you propose that teh doctors achieve it? Should they have let the mother stay in labor for longer than 48 hours?

It’s not a veiled suggestion the doctors are in the wrong, it’s an overt assertion that people are saying (here and probably in real life) that because the doctors have reached literally the minimum standard of care (patient isn’t dead) the patient has be as happy with the outcome as if she *hadn’t* had surgery that both puts her life at risk and has implications for her later fertility. Of course she doesn’t! In the same way if she had planned a c-section, gone into precipitous labor and delivered in her husbands car she doesn’t have to be as happy as if she had been in a calm safe OR just because she’s not dead. Not dead is a very low standard of medical care and we should stop insisting it is all that matters.

DP, but this thread is all about women who have PTSD after a c-section because they are "disappointed" in the way the birth went. That is it. They are not injured, they are not maimed, they just were among the 25-30 percent of women who wound up with a c-section. It's ridiculous that people are equating "disappointment" with "trauma."

If you read the thread you will also hear about people having serious fertility issues post c-section. Unless OPs friend is for sure finished, she doesn’t know she isn’t injured. She’s not out of the woods yet on complications on recovery either, and OP certainly hasn’t been back to say one way or the other (and given OPs initial attitude I doubt she’d be back here saying “oh yeah my friend was just readmitted and is now separated from her baby”)

Patients can be disappointed with medical procedures that don’t end in death. There are many disappointing outcomes that can result from birth and diminishing them and saying, as posters in this thread do, that no one who didn’t die or lose their baby has anything to be disappointed about, is sexist and just incorrect.

OP here. My friend has not been readmitted and doesn't have complications beyond what is normal for recovering from a c-section. Not sure what you mean about my "attitude" but w/e.

I actually talked to her and her husband last night over FaceTime. (I haven't had a chance to talk to her one-on-one). She didn't bring up the birth, but was very focused on breastfeeding issues, which she is struggling with. It seems like maybe some of the energy she had been directing at the birth is now directed at breastfeeding...maybe an improvement, maybe not. Anyway, I will still try to talk to her one-on-one to see if she wants to talk about the birth.

Women who delivered by emergency c-section were found to have a higher proportion of breastfeeding difficulties (41 %), and used more resources before (67 %) and after (58 %) leaving the hospital, when compared to vaginal delivery (29 %, 40 %, and 52 %, respectively) or planned c-sections (33 %, 49 %, and 41 %, respectively). Women who delivered with a planned c-section were more likely (OR = 1.61; 95 % CI: 1.14, 2.26; p = 0.014) to discontinue breastfeeding before 12 weeks postpartum compared to those who delivered vaginally, controlling for income, education, parity, preterm birth, maternal physical and mental health, ethnicity and breastfeeding difficulties.

https://bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12884-016-0876-1

BTW are we allowed to have a preference on breastfeeding vs. formula? Or do I have anxiety/depression/whatever if I prefer breastfeeding? Please, give me your wisdom, DCUM.

Do you know what the alternative to a c-section usually is? A dead baby or mom. They exist for a reason - to save your life. Insane that you’d prefer a dead kid over a “traumatic birth story.”

[Anonymous]

My heart goes out to women who agonize over birth plans and breastfeeding. It’s not normal to prioritize such things over a safe delivery and a healthy baby.

Signed,

Mother who had a traumatic vaginal delivery followed by 3 scheduled c-sections whose milk never came in and quickly transitioned to formula

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My heart goes out to women who agonize over birth plans and breastfeeding. It’s not normal to prioritize such things over a safe delivery and a healthy baby.

Signed,

Mother who had a traumatic vaginal delivery followed by 3 scheduled c-sections whose milk never came in and quickly transitioned to formula

It is usually a sign of high anxiety and wanting to have absolute control over one’s life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who had a very tough labor and delivery - was in labor for almost 48 hours before an emergency c-section. She had done a lot of research and really wanted a vaginal birth - she hired a doula and wanted to keep going even when things weren't progressing (hence the 48 hours). Her husband is my friend too and told me she is really upset about how it ended up and he thinks may be causing (or at least contributing to) PPD, along with struggles breastfeeding. She is a pretty type A/anxious person and really wants to do things "right" (I'm putting it in quotes because I know there is no "right" or "wrong" way to deliver).

I would like to reach out to her and be supportive. I don't want to minimize her experience but I also want her to know it isn't some big disaster that she had a c-section. As a mom of two kids I know that the birth experience seems all-important at the time, but it quickly loses relevance compared to first smiles, first steps, first days of school, etc.

Any suggestions for supportive things to say that aren't condescending or dismissive?

If the baby is healthy then it doesn't make a bit of difference how it was born.

How invalidating. As someone would a traumatic birth where my inlaws just didn’t ask how I was but instead fawned over the baby, I can tell you that it certainly does matter. I will never forget how I was left alone and felt insignificant to others. The baby’s entire family matters. Especially the mother who birthed the baby.

Your mother and husband might care about you but everyone else only cares about baby
Also, it is only the first that is gushed over. Giving birth is what women do and is not special nor an achievement.

That's right. A woman giving birth is comparable to a man dropping a turd in the toilet.

I’m the PP with the traumatic birth. I assume the negative poster is a man - or the worst kind of woman who is critical of other women. Sorry that I don’t view myself or my mom friends as more than a vessel to give everyone a baby to ooh and ahh over. Acknowledging the difficulties and childbirth shows gratitude and love for the woman who endured it all (even if someone had the birth they wanted). I have learned more about my in laws (and I suppose the PP’s) true (bad) colors when the mom’s experience is ignored or diminished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who had a very tough labor and delivery - was in labor for almost 48 hours before an emergency c-section. She had done a lot of research and really wanted a vaginal birth - she hired a doula and wanted to keep going even when things weren't progressing (hence the 48 hours). Her husband is my friend too and told me she is really upset about how it ended up and he thinks may be causing (or at least contributing to) PPD, along with struggles breastfeeding. She is a pretty type A/anxious person and really wants to do things "right" (I'm putting it in quotes because I know there is no "right" or "wrong" way to deliver).

I would like to reach out to her and be supportive. I don't want to minimize her experience but I also want her to know it isn't some big disaster that she had a c-section. As a mom of two kids I know that the birth experience seems all-important at the time, but it quickly loses relevance compared to first smiles, first steps, first days of school, etc.

Any suggestions for supportive things to say that aren't condescending or dismissive?

If the baby is healthy then it doesn't make a bit of difference how it was born.

How invalidating. As someone would a traumatic birth where my inlaws just didn’t ask how I was but instead fawned over the baby, I can tell you that it certainly does matter. I will never forget how I was left alone and felt insignificant to others. The baby’s entire family matters. Especially the mother who birthed the baby.

Your mother and husband might care about you but everyone else only cares about baby
Also, it is only the first that is gushed over. Giving birth is what women do and is not special nor an achievement.

That's right. A woman giving birth is comparable to a man dropping a turd in the toilet.

I’m the PP with the traumatic birth. I assume the negative poster is a man - or the worst kind of woman who is critical of other women. Sorry that I don’t view myself or my mom friends as more than a vessel to give everyone a baby to ooh and ahh over. Acknowledging the difficulties and childbirth shows gratitude and love for the woman who endured it all (even if someone had the birth they wanted). I have learned more about my in laws (and I suppose the PP’s) true (bad) colors when the mom’s experience is ignored or diminished.

I meant to say view us as more than a vessel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My heart goes out to women who agonize over birth plans and breastfeeding. It’s not normal to prioritize such things over a safe delivery and a healthy baby.

Signed,

Mother who had a traumatic vaginal delivery followed by 3 scheduled c-sections whose milk never came in and quickly transitioned to formula

No one prioritizes them “over” a safe delivery. People can have more than one priority. Just surviving childbirth and having a surviving child is less than most of us aspire to. Or are you saying if your traumatic delivery had left you paralyzed, it would have been fine for people to tell you not to prioritize a silly think like walking since you and your baby weren’t dead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My heart goes out to women who agonize over birth plans and breastfeeding. It’s not normal to prioritize such things over a safe delivery and a healthy baby.

Signed,

Mother who had a traumatic vaginal delivery followed by 3 scheduled c-sections whose milk never came in and quickly transitioned to formula

It is normal to have feelings about having been cut open to get out the baby safely rather than pushing it through your vagina as you had expected to do. It is completely normal to have feelings about that. It is normal to have feelings about the difficulty of breastfeeding. It is completely normal to have feelings about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My heart goes out to women who agonize over birth plans and breastfeeding. It’s not normal to prioritize such things over a safe delivery and a healthy baby.

Signed,

Mother who had a traumatic vaginal delivery followed by 3 scheduled c-sections whose milk never came in and quickly transitioned to formula

It is usually a sign of high anxiety and wanting to have absolute control over one’s life.

+1 I really struggled with these things with my first child. I have really bad anxiety issues that got worse during pregnancy and then developed into post partum OCD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My heart goes out to women who agonize over birth plans and breastfeeding. It’s not normal to prioritize such things over a safe delivery and a healthy baby.

Signed,

Mother who had a traumatic vaginal delivery followed by 3 scheduled c-sections whose milk never came in and quickly transitioned to formula

No one prioritizes them “over” a safe delivery. People can have more than one priority. Just surviving childbirth and having a surviving child is less than most of us aspire to. Or are you saying if your traumatic delivery had left you paralyzed, it would have been fine for people to tell you not to prioritize a silly think like walking since you and your baby weren’t dead?

Are you really comparing an uneventful c-section to paralysis?

I’m saying that having my baby survive a traumatic vaginal (got stuck too far down for an emergency c-section; vacuum, cutting, tearing followed by a mrsa staph infection that ruptured my ginormous episiotomy) followed by 3 uneventful c-sections, I have a better informed perspective than a FTM fixating on the fact that her birth plans took a slight detour but the end result was a healthy baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My heart goes out to women who agonize over birth plans and breastfeeding. It’s not normal to prioritize such things over a safe delivery and a healthy baby.

Signed,

Mother who had a traumatic vaginal delivery followed by 3 scheduled c-sections whose milk never came in and quickly transitioned to formula

It is normal to have feelings about having been cut open to get out the baby safely rather than pushing it through your vagina as you had expected to do. It is completely normal to have feelings about that. It is normal to have feelings about the difficulty of breastfeeding. It is completely normal to have feelings about that.

It’s normal to have feelings. It’s not normal for those feelings to linger let alone detract from your joy.

I mean, you need to be resilient and roll with the punches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My heart goes out to women who agonize over birth plans and breastfeeding. It’s not normal to prioritize such things over a safe delivery and a healthy baby.

Signed,

Mother who had a traumatic vaginal delivery followed by 3 scheduled c-sections whose milk never came in and quickly transitioned to formula

No one prioritizes them “over” a safe delivery. People can have more than one priority. Just surviving childbirth and having a surviving child is less than most of us aspire to. Or are you saying if your traumatic delivery had left you paralyzed, it would have been fine for people to tell you not to prioritize a silly think like walking since you and your baby weren’t dead?

Are you really comparing an uneventful c-section to paralysis?

I’m saying that having my baby survive a traumatic vaginal (got stuck too far down for an emergency c-section; vacuum, cutting, tearing followed by a mrsa staph infection that ruptured my ginormous episiotomy) followed by 3 uneventful c-sections, I have a better informed perspective than a FTM fixating on the fact that her birth plans took a slight detour but the end result was a healthy baby.

Well, to use your language, sure. That’s a slight detour from your plans right? End result is still a healthy baby.

[Anonymous]

Why are OBs even involved in a normal birth experience? They should be brought in only once an emergency has been detected.

So happy all 3 of my births were in Europe (I'm American) where most women will never see an OB. We loved our midwives.