Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO READ ABOUT THIS CASE!
Daniel Penny is a FLIPPING AMERICAN HERO! He stepped up to stop this monster before he could kill anyone on the train and now he is being attacked. What if he sat there and let this freak show kill someone?? He was out of his mind! Insane! Hell no. And I quote this from a news article:

“Neely was homeless, schizophrenic and had a record of 40 arrests that included punching a 67-year-old woman in the face.

On May 1, he was screaming that he wanted to 'kill a motherf****r' to get a ticket to jail where he'd receive meals.

Daniel Penny, a 24-year-old Marine veteran, stepped in and put him in a chokehold. Neely died at the scene.”

So people who are mentally ill should be killed? Keep in mind that Penny didn't know Neely's mental health history. We don't condone vigilantes in the US.

Well if the government refuses to put them in humane institutions which they cannot leave what are people to do?

This gets to the crux of the problem.

Supreme Court decisions in the 70s and 80s make it extremely difficult for jurisdictions to involuntarily commit mental ill individuals for anything other than short stretches of time. Individual liberty is paramount. This is a major hurdle to getting people like Neely off the street. This is why prisons act as the de facto asylum - the state needs to wait for them to commit a crime to move them permanently off the street.

Secondly, is cost. It’s exorbitant and Americans are growing more and more anti-tax. You want to move to a place with no income taxes? You’ll find mental health services and facilities to basically be nil. No one wants to pay for it, particularly among the Taxes Are Theft crowd.

This! All the people on this thread b****ing about the mentally ill running amok in blue cities will be the first to complain about an increase in taxes to support the comprehensive and very expensive programs that would be required to take the violent or violent-appearing mentally ill off the streets. Ditto other “undesirables” like the homeless and drug addicts.

I thought people living in blue cities were happy to pay needed taxes.

Here’s another crux of the issue: NYC has some of the best and most comprehensive homeless services in the country. The issue? There’s just so many homeless in NYC - it’s big, expensive, and mentally ill people/addicts from across the country are drawn to NYC.

If you think the homeless issue is bad in NYC, it’s a lot worse elsewhere where the government doesn’t have the same level of resources as nyc to handle it.

Another issue with NYC is that the lack of cars means you have to encounter this issue a lot more frequently in person.

As several PPs have noted, issues involving those with serious mental illness are never going to have a perfect solution. Even with all the resources in the world, short of forced confinement, seriously ill people are going to improve and regress. It's a process, not an easy fix. A person in Neely's state before his death is incredibly difficult to treat and also a danger to himself and others. I wish more people remembering his younger days as a street performer would focus more on why he was there and what help could have been given to him to address his trauma at that time. We don't know what help he got, but clearly, he needed intensive services to help process his mother's murder. Remember, he also dropped out of school at a young age. People with severe trauma and no education are most likely to turn to drugs and other behaviors that send them on tragic path. Catching them and bringing them into a safety net as early as possible should be a priority.

+1 Amen. Well said, and all so true.

PP here, adding a few more facts. If reports are accurate, Jordan Neely was 14 when his mother was murdered by his stepfather. His biological father, according to his aunt, wasn't involved in his life. He was a 14-year-old child whose most important caregiver was a victim of domestic violence at the hands of another caregiver. His aunt claims that she tried to get help for him back then. but couldn't convince judges and doctors to give him the help he needed. Instead of fighting about a tragic mistake, we should all be more concerned about how to ensure that minors like Neely, who are alone in the world, receive the assistance and treatment they need.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO READ ABOUT THIS CASE!
Daniel Penny is a FLIPPING AMERICAN HERO! He stepped up to stop this monster before he could kill anyone on the train and now he is being attacked. What if he sat there and let this freak show kill someone?? He was out of his mind! Insane! Hell no. And I quote this from a news article:

“Neely was homeless, schizophrenic and had a record of 40 arrests that included punching a 67-year-old woman in the face.

On May 1, he was screaming that he wanted to 'kill a motherf****r' to get a ticket to jail where he'd receive meals.

Daniel Penny, a 24-year-old Marine veteran, stepped in and put him in a chokehold. Neely died at the scene.”

So people who are mentally ill should be killed? Keep in mind that Penny didn't know Neely's mental health history. We don't condone vigilantes in the US.

Well if the government refuses to put them in humane institutions which they cannot leave what are people to do?

This gets to the crux of the problem.

Supreme Court decisions in the 70s and 80s make it extremely difficult for jurisdictions to involuntarily commit mental ill individuals for anything other than short stretches of time. Individual liberty is paramount. This is a major hurdle to getting people like Neely off the street. This is why prisons act as the de facto asylum - the state needs to wait for them to commit a crime to move them permanently off the street.

Secondly, is cost. It’s exorbitant and Americans are growing more and more anti-tax. You want to move to a place with no income taxes? You’ll find mental health services and facilities to basically be nil. No one wants to pay for it, particularly among the Taxes Are Theft crowd.

This! All the people on this thread b****ing about the mentally ill running amok in blue cities will be the first to complain about an increase in taxes to support the comprehensive and very expensive programs that would be required to take the violent or violent-appearing mentally ill off the streets. Ditto other “undesirables” like the homeless and drug addicts.

I thought people living in blue cities were happy to pay needed taxes.

Here’s another crux of the issue: NYC has some of the best and most comprehensive homeless services in the country. The issue? There’s just so many homeless in NYC - it’s big, expensive, and mentally ill people/addicts from across the country are drawn to NYC.

If you think the homeless issue is bad in NYC, it’s a lot worse elsewhere where the government doesn’t have the same level of resources as nyc to handle it.

Another issue with NYC is that the lack of cars means you have to encounter this issue a lot more frequently in person.

As several PPs have noted, issues involving those with serious mental illness are never going to have a perfect solution. Even with all the resources in the world, short of forced confinement, seriously ill people are going to improve and regress. It's a process, not an easy fix. A person in Neely's state before his death is incredibly difficult to treat and also a danger to himself and others. I wish more people remembering his younger days as a street performer would focus more on why he was there and what help could have been given to him to address his trauma at that time. We don't know what help he got, but clearly, he needed intensive services to help process his mother's murder. Remember, he also dropped out of school at a young age. People with severe trauma and no education are most likely to turn to drugs and other behaviors that send them on tragic path. Catching them and bringing them into a safety net as early as possible should be a priority.

+1 Amen. Well said, and all so true.

PP here, adding a few more facts. If reports are accurate, Jordan Neely was 14 when his mother was murdered by his stepfather. His biological father, according to his aunt, wasn't involved in his life. He was a 14-year-old child whose most important caregiver was a victim of domestic violence at the hands of another caregiver. His aunt claims that she tried to get help for him back then. but couldn't convince judges and doctors to give him the help he needed. Instead of fighting about a tragic mistake, we should all be more concerned about how to ensure that minors like Neely, who are alone in the world, receive the assistance and treatment they need.

PP here. I've worked with kids with mental health issues and special needs from grades K-5 my entire work life. I agree with you. I also don't think Penny should be made a scapegoat.

[Anonymous]

Based on news, the man was experiencing a psychotic event and was dangerous to others and this man was brave and protected others. If that is accurate, I hope the charges are dismissed. otherwise, innocent bystanders will be reluctant in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the thing: even if Neely had punched someone in the face, Penny would still be facing charges and likely get convicted.

Why? Because Penny’s use of force was disproportionate. Neely was subdued on the ground by 3 adult men and Penny continued to choke him until the life liquidated out of Neely’s orifices.

Those are the gruel facts. A claim of self-defense or defense of others has to be proportionate to immediacy and severity of the threat at hand. Once again, you can’t kill someone because of “bad vibes.” It doesn’t work like that.

And innocent people who are pushed in front of trains by mentally ill and/or repeat criminals? To what degree and to what level of comparison do you think their deaths are proportionate?

What do those unrelated cases have to do with the facts and circumstances of this exact case?

You can’t kill someone because of bad vibes and “what if…”. The justice system doesn’t work like that, thank god.

Neely attempted to push someone a week earlier. Some other homeless person did fatally push someone in front of a train. Bad vibes = real danger in the NY subway, to a reasonable person. Maybe you aren't reasonable, but others are.

This has happened multiple times. In Oregon a homeless woman pushed a toddler face down onto the train tracks. I stopped riding the metro years ago primarily due to safety concerns. People have a right to go about their daily lives without being harassed and sometimes assaulted. We need to bring back institutions for people like Neely who need serious medical intervention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on news, the man was experiencing a psychotic event and was dangerous to others and this man was brave and protected others. If that is accurate, I hope the charges are dismissed. otherwise, innocent bystanders will be reluctant in the future.

They will not be dismissed because he killed a black man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on news, the man was experiencing a psychotic event and was dangerous to others and this man was brave and protected others. If that is accurate, I hope the charges are dismissed. otherwise, innocent bystanders will be reluctant in the future.

They will not be dismissed because he killed a black man.

This. Doubt this would be a news story if both men were white.

[Anonymous]

I predict that the homeless man will not get help and will eventually kill or injure someone in the next few years.

Then we will all will discuss what happened with Neally and there will be a reckoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on news, the man was experiencing a psychotic event and was dangerous to others and this man was brave and protected others. If that is accurate, I hope the charges are dismissed. otherwise, innocent bystanders will be reluctant in the future.

They will not be dismissed because he killed a black man.

This. Doubt this would be a news story if both men were white.

Or, if both men were black. It would have never made the news.
Race baiters are going to race bait. Even though this has NOTHING to do with race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO READ ABOUT THIS CASE!
Daniel Penny is a FLIPPING AMERICAN HERO! He stepped up to stop this monster before he could kill anyone on the train and now he is being attacked. What if he sat there and let this freak show kill someone?? He was out of his mind! Insane! Hell no. And I quote this from a news article:

“Neely was homeless, schizophrenic and had a record of 40 arrests that included punching a 67-year-old woman in the face.

On May 1, he was screaming that he wanted to 'kill a motherf****r' to get a ticket to jail where he'd receive meals.

Daniel Penny, a 24-year-old Marine veteran, stepped in and put him in a chokehold. Neely died at the scene.”

So people who are mentally ill should be killed? Keep in mind that Penny didn't know Neely's mental health history. We don't condone vigilantes in the US.

Well if the government refuses to put them in humane institutions which they cannot leave what are people to do?

This gets to the crux of the problem.

Supreme Court decisions in the 70s and 80s make it extremely difficult for jurisdictions to involuntarily commit mental ill individuals for anything other than short stretches of time. Individual liberty is paramount. This is a major hurdle to getting people like Neely off the street. This is why prisons act as the de facto asylum - the state needs to wait for them to commit a crime to move them permanently off the street.

Secondly, is cost. It’s exorbitant and Americans are growing more and more anti-tax. You want to move to a place with no income taxes? You’ll find mental health services and facilities to basically be nil. No one wants to pay for it, particularly among the Taxes Are Theft crowd.

Well at least let’s do it in places like CA where the taxes are through the roof

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO READ ABOUT THIS CASE!
Daniel Penny is a FLIPPING AMERICAN HERO! He stepped up to stop this monster before he could kill anyone on the train and now he is being attacked. What if he sat there and let this freak show kill someone?? He was out of his mind! Insane! Hell no. And I quote this from a news article:

“Neely was homeless, schizophrenic and had a record of 40 arrests that included punching a 67-year-old woman in the face.

On May 1, he was screaming that he wanted to 'kill a motherf****r' to get a ticket to jail where he'd receive meals.

Daniel Penny, a 24-year-old Marine veteran, stepped in and put him in a chokehold. Neely died at the scene.”

So people who are mentally ill should be killed? Keep in mind that Penny didn't know Neely's mental health history. We don't condone vigilantes in the US.

Well if the government refuses to put them in humane institutions which they cannot leave what are people to do?

This gets to the crux of the problem.

Supreme Court decisions in the 70s and 80s make it extremely difficult for jurisdictions to involuntarily commit mental ill individuals for anything other than short stretches of time. Individual liberty is paramount. This is a major hurdle to getting people like Neely off the street. This is why prisons act as the de facto asylum - the state needs to wait for them to commit a crime to move them permanently off the street.

Secondly, is cost. It’s exorbitant and Americans are growing more and more anti-tax. You want to move to a place with no income taxes? You’ll find mental health services and facilities to basically be nil. No one wants to pay for it, particularly among the Taxes Are Theft crowd.

This! All the people on this thread b****ing about the mentally ill running amok in blue cities will be the first to complain about an increase in taxes to support the comprehensive and very expensive programs that would be required to take the violent or violent-appearing mentally ill off the streets. Ditto other “undesirables” like the homeless and drug addicts.

I thought people living in blue cities were happy to pay needed taxes.

Here’s another crux of the issue: NYC has some of the best and most comprehensive homeless services in the country. The issue? There’s just so many homeless in NYC - it’s big, expensive, and mentally ill people/addicts from across the country are drawn to NYC.

If you think the homeless issue is bad in NYC, it’s a lot worse elsewhere where the government doesn’t have the same level of resources as nyc to handle it.

Another issue with NYC is that the lack of cars means you have to encounter this issue a lot more frequently in person.

As several PPs have noted, issues involving those with serious mental illness are never going to have a perfect solution. Even with all the resources in the world, short of forced confinement, seriously ill people are going to improve and regress. It's a process, not an easy fix. A person in Neely's state before his death is incredibly difficult to treat and also a danger to himself and others. I wish more people remembering his younger days as a street performer would focus more on why he was there and what help could have been given to him to address his trauma at that time. We don't know what help he got, but clearly, he needed intensive services to help process his mother's murder. Remember, he also dropped out of school at a young age. People with severe trauma and no education are most likely to turn to drugs and other behaviors that send them on tragic path. Catching them and bringing them into a safety net as early as possible should be a priority.

+1 Amen. Well said, and all so true.

PP here, adding a few more facts. If reports are accurate, Jordan Neely was 14 when his mother was murdered by his stepfather. His biological father, according to his aunt, wasn't involved in his life. He was a 14-year-old child whose most important caregiver was a victim of domestic violence at the hands of another caregiver. His aunt claims that she tried to get help for him back then. but couldn't convince judges and doctors to give him the help he needed. Instead of fighting about a tragic mistake, we should all be more concerned about how to ensure that minors like Neely, who are alone in the world, receive the assistance and treatment they need.

huh? you mean like the currently existing foster care system? it’s not perfect but there is a safety net in place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO READ ABOUT THIS CASE!
Daniel Penny is a FLIPPING AMERICAN HERO! He stepped up to stop this monster before he could kill anyone on the train and now he is being attacked. What if he sat there and let this freak show kill someone?? He was out of his mind! Insane! Hell no. And I quote this from a news article:

“Neely was homeless, schizophrenic and had a record of 40 arrests that included punching a 67-year-old woman in the face.

On May 1, he was screaming that he wanted to 'kill a motherf****r' to get a ticket to jail where he'd receive meals.

Daniel Penny, a 24-year-old Marine veteran, stepped in and put him in a chokehold. Neely died at the scene.”

So people who are mentally ill should be killed? Keep in mind that Penny didn't know Neely's mental health history. We don't condone vigilantes in the US.

Well if the government refuses to put them in humane institutions which they cannot leave what are people to do?

This gets to the crux of the problem.

Supreme Court decisions in the 70s and 80s make it extremely difficult for jurisdictions to involuntarily commit mental ill individuals for anything other than short stretches of time. Individual liberty is paramount. This is a major hurdle to getting people like Neely off the street. This is why prisons act as the de facto asylum - the state needs to wait for them to commit a crime to move them permanently off the street.

Secondly, is cost. It’s exorbitant and Americans are growing more and more anti-tax. You want to move to a place with no income taxes? You’ll find mental health services and facilities to basically be nil. No one wants to pay for it, particularly among the Taxes Are Theft crowd.

This! All the people on this thread b****ing about the mentally ill running amok in blue cities will be the first to complain about an increase in taxes to support the comprehensive and very expensive programs that would be required to take the violent or violent-appearing mentally ill off the streets. Ditto other “undesirables” like the homeless and drug addicts.

Not if the program proposed building involuntary commitment facilities in low COL areas where mentally ill could stay forever if deemed necessary. The problem is all those expensive programs that don’t remove them from the streets. We don’t need another housing complex for them in a wealthy area. We need to have them kept away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I predict that the homeless man will not get help and will eventually kill or injure someone in the next few years.

Then we will all will discuss what happened with Neally and there will be a reckoning.

Huh? Are you high?

Neally is dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO READ ABOUT THIS CASE!
Daniel Penny is a FLIPPING AMERICAN HERO! He stepped up to stop this monster before he could kill anyone on the train and now he is being attacked. What if he sat there and let this freak show kill someone?? He was out of his mind! Insane! Hell no. And I quote this from a news article:

“Neely was homeless, schizophrenic and had a record of 40 arrests that included punching a 67-year-old woman in the face.

On May 1, he was screaming that he wanted to 'kill a motherf****r' to get a ticket to jail where he'd receive meals.

Daniel Penny, a 24-year-old Marine veteran, stepped in and put him in a chokehold. Neely died at the scene.”

So people who are mentally ill should be killed? Keep in mind that Penny didn't know Neely's mental health history. We don't condone vigilantes in the US.

Well if the government refuses to put them in humane institutions which they cannot leave what are people to do?

This gets to the crux of the problem.

Supreme Court decisions in the 70s and 80s make it extremely difficult for jurisdictions to involuntarily commit mental ill individuals for anything other than short stretches of time. Individual liberty is paramount. This is a major hurdle to getting people like Neely off the street. This is why prisons act as the de facto asylum - the state needs to wait for them to commit a crime to move them permanently off the street.

Secondly, is cost. It’s exorbitant and Americans are growing more and more anti-tax. You want to move to a place with no income taxes? You’ll find mental health services and facilities to basically be nil. No one wants to pay for it, particularly among the Taxes Are Theft crowd.

Well at least let’s do it in places like CA where the taxes are through the roof

I have an idea — let’s allow really lax immigration enforcement and legalize weed so that we make the homeless population much worse —then make other law-abiding citizens pay for it! They will be thrilled!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these people thinking that Mr. Neely's behavior didn't warrant concern: Would you be willing to be locked in a room with someone behaving like Mr. Neely? Would you be willing to lock YOUR CHILD in a room with Mr. Neely?

Nobody was locked in a room. Everybody has the opportunity to leave the car.

I actually wouldn’t feel safe being locked in a room with you, can I kill you if I see you?

NP
You are delusional. There is no rational conversation to be had here.

NP. No, they’re quite right. The article I read said most people left the car. And if you watch the video you’ll see there are very few people remaining in the car at the time of the chokehold.