Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

maybe things like this wouldnt happen if we rolled back the clock and institutionalized people in psychiatric hospitals for the long term. also if judges did their job and didn’t issue lenient sentences and legislatures didn’t pass laws letting criminals out of prison before the have served their full sentences. Maybe then people working need to protect themselves with such force. This won’t be getting better until we build more institutions to lock these people up and make it easier to admit people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

Funny, I won’t date men who will stand by and do nothing as a violent sociopath threatens to harm me and others around me. But you do you.

Violent, drug addicted sociopath. Don’t forget he was high as a kite on K2 while he threatened that child and the other passengers on the train. If Penny wasn’t there, an innocent person would have died on that train. Possibly more than one.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/virginia-man-jumped-through-glass-window-choked-child-in-dc-attack-police-say

This story didn’t receive a lot of attention at the time but the guy was on drugs and it took multiple bystanders to pull him off the child he attacked. If bystanders hadn’t stepped in, the child would have died.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As someone who lived in NYC and regularly rode the subway both then and later, Penny’s acquittal is great news. Riding the subway is often not for the faint of heart and riders depend on the guardian angels not to sit back passively when crazy people start harassing riders.

As for Alvin Bragg, he is a disgrace who has no business having any prosecutorial authority. His decision to charge Penny in the first place made most New Yorkers feel less safe in their city, and the sooner this incompetent buffoon leaves his position the better.

+1000. I am a NYC resident and I completely agree with you. It was an insane decision to charge Penny on these facts, and I am very, very relieved he was acquitted.

Yes, I think many people will justify criminal behavior due to fear or frustration with a system that has allowed things to get out of control.

I’m the PP you’re responding to. In addition to being a NYC resident and regular subway rider, I’m also a lawyer, and I don’t agree that Penny’s behavior was criminal. I think it met the legal elements of self defense. I think the decision to charge him was stupid and a waste of prosecutorial resources, on the legal merits, and was likely significantly influenced by the fact that Penny is white and Neely is Black (which had zero relevance to this situation).

I'm not sure if being a lawyer is very relevant here. Having knowledge about BJJ is critical to determining if Neely was a threat. At the very least, you need to learn quite a bit before you can come to any reasonable determination whether the force used was appropriate.

It’s relevant because self-defense is an actual legal concept with specific elements, and in my view (clearly also in the jury’s view) Penny’s conduct satisfied those elements. In a situation like that, where you need to act within seconds to neutralize what appears to be a serious, imminent, and potentially lethal threat to yourself and others, and as a PP mentioned above, your body is flooded with adrenaline (i.e., exactly the circumstances necessitating self-defense), you’re not in a position in that split second to weigh all the information and make the most perfect judgment of the exact amount of force needed to incapacitate the person. Distinguish this from a case like the murder of Breona Taylor, which was clearly an unjustified and unreasonable use of force.

Here, Penny was very obviously not acting maliciously. There was a credible and immediate threat to everyone’s safety, he was acting in the defense of himself and others, and he acted to incapacitate Neely, which had the unfortunate result that he died. And “reasonable use of force” is something that’s easy to calculate after the fact, harder in the moment. Legally justified self defense doesn’t exclude the possibility that the aggressor dies. Sometimes it happens, and it happened here. There really shouldn’t have been charges at all.

Maybe you are a new lawyer? I say this because many people who have zero experience outside of academia don't fully grasp that there is a big difference between theory and real life. They also think they know more than they actually know. You read about a concept and are attempting to apply it to a scenario, but it doesn't really fit.

… except the jury acquitted so obviously PP is correct

OJ was also acquitted, but everyone basically acknowledges he killed his wife. The outcome of a trial and the truth are not the same thing at all.

Not much of a comparison between these two cases at all. Brutally murdering your wife in a jealous rage is not like subduing a drug addled psycho making threats against others. It would be similar if Nicole had put a murderous OJ in a headlock and was victorious.

No, it’s nothing like that. Neely hadn’t laid a finger on Penny.

[Anonymous]

I hope Penny gets his legal fees reimbursed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who lived in NYC and regularly rode the subway both then and later, Penny’s acquittal is great news. Riding the subway is often not for the faint of heart and riders depend on the guardian angels not to sit back passively when crazy people start harassing riders.

As for Alvin Bragg, he is a disgrace who has no business having any prosecutorial authority. His decision to charge Penny in the first place made most New Yorkers feel less safe in their city, and the sooner this incompetent buffoon leaves his position the better.

+1000. I am a NYC resident and I completely agree with you. It was an insane decision to charge Penny on these facts, and I am very, very relieved he was acquitted.

Yes, I think many people will justify criminal behavior due to fear or frustration with a system that has allowed things to get out of control.

I’m the PP you’re responding to. In addition to being a NYC resident and regular subway rider, I’m also a lawyer, and I don’t agree that Penny’s behavior was criminal. I think it met the legal elements of self defense. I think the decision to charge him was stupid and a waste of prosecutorial resources, on the legal merits, and was likely significantly influenced by the fact that Penny is white and Neely is Black (which had zero relevance to this situation).

I'm not sure if being a lawyer is very relevant here. Having knowledge about BJJ is critical to determining if Neely was a threat. At the very least, you need to learn quite a bit before you can come to any reasonable determination whether the force used was appropriate.

It’s relevant because self-defense is an actual legal concept with specific elements, and in my view (clearly also in the jury’s view) Penny’s conduct satisfied those elements. In a situation like that, where you need to act within seconds to neutralize what appears to be a serious, imminent, and potentially lethal threat to yourself and others, and as a PP mentioned above, your body is flooded with adrenaline (i.e., exactly the circumstances necessitating self-defense), you’re not in a position in that split second to weigh all the information and make the most perfect judgment of the exact amount of force needed to incapacitate the person. Distinguish this from a case like the murder of Breona Taylor, which was clearly an unjustified and unreasonable use of force.

Here, Penny was very obviously not acting maliciously. There was a credible and immediate threat to everyone’s safety, he was acting in the defense of himself and others, and he acted to incapacitate Neely, which had the unfortunate result that he died. And “reasonable use of force” is something that’s easy to calculate after the fact, harder in the moment. Legally justified self defense doesn’t exclude the possibility that the aggressor dies. Sometimes it happens, and it happened here. There really shouldn’t have been charges at all.

Maybe you are a new lawyer? I say this because many people who have zero experience outside of academia don't fully grasp that there is a big difference between theory and real life. They also think they know more than they actually know. You read about a concept and are attempting to apply it to a scenario, but it doesn't really fit.

… except the jury acquitted so obviously PP is correct

OJ was also acquitted, but everyone basically acknowledges he killed his wife. The outcome of a trial and the truth are not the same thing at all.

Not much of a comparison between these two cases at all. Brutally murdering your wife in a jealous rage is not like subduing a drug addled psycho making threats against others. It would be similar if Nicole had put a murderous OJ in a headlock and was victorious.

No, it’s nothing like that. Neely hadn’t laid a finger on Penny.

You don’t have to be touched to be threatened. Which is why Penny walks free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:maybe things like this wouldnt happen if we rolled back the clock and institutionalized people in psychiatric hospitals for the long term. also if judges did their job and didn’t issue lenient sentences and legislatures didn’t pass laws letting criminals out of prison before the have served their full sentences. Maybe then people working need to protect themselves with such force. This won’t be getting better until we build more institutions to lock these people up and make it easier to admit people.

+1 Definitely

[Anonymous]

Penny is a hero. We need a Penny in the DC Metro to install fear onto our mentally ill hobos screaming and threatening regular citizens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

Funny, I won’t date men who will stand by and do nothing as a violent sociopath threatens to harm me and others around me. But you do you.

Violent, drug addicted sociopath. Don’t forget he was high as a kite on K2 while he threatened that child and the other passengers on the train. If Penny wasn’t there, an innocent person would have died on that train. Possibly more than one.

Just like George Floyd. I wonder what Fox News and the usual suspect are saying about this incident. They are probably using the same talking points they used to describe George Floyd. He died of drugs. He also died from pre-existing conditions. He would have died anyway. Dude standing on his neck had nothing to do with it! haha Crazy what people will believe.

They are saying a man was killed for riding a subway. Ridiculous. Wrong again, just like George Floyd.

Huh? He's a hero for conservatives, not unlike Kyle Rittenhouse.

I’m a Democrat and have never voted for a conservative or a Republican, but I also appreciate what he did and think it’s ridiculous that he was charged. I saw that JD Vance apparently tweeted something similar today and it’s the first time I’ve ever agreed with him about anything.

I’m a woman who rides the subway regularly and have personally experienced being in a train car with an unhinged person. It’s terrifying, and I deeply respect someone who is willing to be a Good Samaritan in these situations (because, as seen in this case, you’re liable to be villainized and even charged if something goes wrong). While it’s sad on a human level that someone died, and I wouldn’t actively wish death on him, much like the healthcare CEO, I’m also not shedding tears for this person - a violent criminal who regularly menaced and assaulted innocent people on the streets and in the subway.

I bet you loved what happened to ol George Floyd too.

NP but I feel similarly to the above poster , and no, not the same at all in my mind. George Floyd wasn’t actively raging at people and threatening to kill them in an enclosed space with no escape. Jordan Neely was. If I were on that subway car I’d have been so relieved that Penny was there to protect us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:One of Sean Hannity's rocket scientist viewers is posting on this thread

You’re going to be so disappointed in the outcome of this trial.

Considering the fact that you don't seem to know anything about the case and probably don't even know the difference between manslaughter and 2nd degree murder, I don't think anyone is considering your opinions/prediction.

Love how the idiot lawyer or someone pretending to be a lawyer was wrong, as predicted. So typical.

The dcum troll won a coin toss and is now the smartest guy in the room lmao

I bet you were wrong about the election too. Something tells me your arrogance often allows you to miss the forest for the trees. Stay mad.

In this case, the PP missed the trees for the forest. All they saw was white guy chokes black guy to death without understanding or even bothering to research the elements of self-defense under NY law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of Sean Hannity's rocket scientist viewers is posting on this thread

You’re going to be so disappointed in the outcome of this trial.

Considering the fact that you don't seem to know anything about the case and probably don't even know the difference between manslaughter and 2nd degree murder, I don't think anyone is considering your opinions/prediction.

Love how the idiot lawyer or someone pretending to be a lawyer was wrong, as predicted. So typical.

The dcum troll won a coin toss and is now the smartest guy in the room lmao

I bet you were wrong about the election too. Something tells me your arrogance often allows you to miss the forest for the trees. Stay mad.

In this case, the PP missed the trees for the forest. All they saw was white guy chokes black guy to death without understanding or even bothering to research the elements of self-defense under NY law.

Alvin Bragg is that you?

[Anonymous]

I don’t know if this has been addressed, but the statements by Neelys father make my blood boil. He wasn’t trying to hurt anyone, he just “wanted to be seen”??? He was “harmless”?? I’m sorry but an high, angry mentally ill man threatening to kill me is assault, it’s not “harmless” or “wanting to be seen”. And now suing Penny for civil damages? If I read correctly, Neely was in foster care after his mother’s tragic murder. Where was his father then? Where was his father these past years as Neely was homeless, mentally ill, breaking the law over and over? Only rolling up to the gate now that he thinks he can profit?

[Anonymous]

Add on question- can you sue for civil damages for just anyone who died? If his father never even had custody of him- he was in foster care!- or any relationship with him, how can he sue over his death? Can I sue over his death???

[Anonymous]

Totally agree. Neely’s father foisted his sick and broken son on society and when he threatened innocent bystanders and was killed he is angry and wants a payout.
Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know if this has been addressed, but the statements by Neelys father make my blood boil. He wasn’t trying to hurt anyone, he just “wanted to be seen”??? He was “harmless”?? I’m sorry but an high, angry mentally ill man threatening to kill me is assault, it’s not “harmless” or “wanting to be seen”. And now suing Penny for civil damages? If I read correctly, Neely was in foster care after his mother’s tragic murder. Where was his father then? Where was his father these past years as Neely was homeless, mentally ill, breaking the law over and over? Only rolling up to the gate now that he thinks he can profit?

Amen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won't date men who choke people.

I agree. I would much rather date a beta cuck who watches from a corner while a violent, drug addicted psychopath smashes in my face and kidnaps our daughter.

Yeah those aren’t your only two choices. Seriously you sound weirdly excited by both. Creepy.