When you don't like a person in your broader friend group, which is the best way to handle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some women thrive in groups, others are better having a few best friends. Group dynamics can be difficult.

In our group we’ve always been upfront about our beliefs which For the most part very much align. But when it came to schools re-opening people had vastly different views based on personal experiences and needs. Some people spoke out of anxiety which offended others in the group. Instead of calling them on it or explaining what was offensive some people decided to leave the group chat. Unfortunate and now there’s a level of awkwardness. This past year between politics, schools, Covid, etc. has definitely brought to light who your real tribe is.

I’m sorry that happened. I agree this last year has been a kind of crucible for friendships. When it comes to politics, especially really personal political issues like how we educate our kids or racism in our own communities, I think it’s hard to just paper over things with pleasantness.

Recently one of my close friends jumped the vaccine line. Technically qualified but in a very shady way. When I found out I was kind of horrified. I was stressed about whether or not to say anything, but then last night on our group call, it was a relief because two other friends called it out before me. We were able to have a group conversation about it that I think was good for everyone. I’m really glad it got discussed (and grateful to my friends who had the guts to bring it up) because I think it’s the kind of thing that would cause long term awkwardness and resentment. I’m still annoyed with my friend, but I think we’ll be okay now because my feelings are out there and now I feel better. Hopefully others do too.

Was the person who jumped the line (by your standards) on the call, or was your group talking about her?

I don’t understand the need to discuss everything. It’s almost like some women look for reasons to get upset and then fixate on it. Like a DP said, most women just want to have a pleasant time.

Keep it casual. Rally around people who need support. Don’t create drama.

They were on the call.

I have to discuss stuff. To me, avoiding certain things gets in the way of that pleasant time. It’s okay, it just means you and I wouldn’t make good friends.

Also, no one “looks for stuff to get upset about.” People are either bothered by something or not. Some people aren’t bothered by anything, even very upsetting things. Others are bothered by lots of things, even seemingly innocuous things. It usually has to do with their prior experiences (including past trauma), anxiety levels, and current support system. You don’t have to be friends with everyone, but a person who is genuinely upset about something isn’t “creating drama.” That’s a very limited way of thinking about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some women thrive in groups, others are better having a few best friends. Group dynamics can be difficult.

In our group we’ve always been upfront about our beliefs which For the most part very much align. But when it came to schools re-opening people had vastly different views based on personal experiences and needs. Some people spoke out of anxiety which offended others in the group. Instead of calling them on it or explaining what was offensive some people decided to leave the group chat. Unfortunate and now there’s a level of awkwardness. This past year between politics, schools, Covid, etc. has definitely brought to light who your real tribe is.

I’m sorry that happened. I agree this last year has been a kind of crucible for friendships. When it comes to politics, especially really personal political issues like how we educate our kids or racism in our own communities, I think it’s hard to just paper over things with pleasantness.

Recently one of my close friends jumped the vaccine line. Technically qualified but in a very shady way. When I found out I was kind of horrified. I was stressed about whether or not to say anything, but then last night on our group call, it was a relief because two other friends called it out before me. We were able to have a group conversation about it that I think was good for everyone. I’m really glad it got discussed (and grateful to my friends who had the guts to bring it up) because I think it’s the kind of thing that would cause long term awkwardness and resentment. I’m still annoyed with my friend, but I think we’ll be okay now because my feelings are out there and now I feel better. Hopefully others do too.

Was the person who jumped the line (by your standards) on the call, or was your group talking about her?

I don’t understand the need to discuss everything. It’s almost like some women look for reasons to get upset and then fixate on it. Like a DP said, most women just want to have a pleasant time.

Keep it casual. Rally around people who need support. Don’t create drama.

They were on the call.

I have to discuss stuff. To me, avoiding certain things gets in the way of that pleasant time. It’s okay, it just means you and I wouldn’t make good friends.

Also, no one “looks for stuff to get upset about.” People are either bothered by something or not. Some people aren’t bothered by anything, even very upsetting things. Others are bothered by lots of things, even seemingly innocuous things. It usually has to do with their prior experiences (including past trauma), anxiety levels, and current support system. You don’t have to be friends with everyone, but a person who is genuinely upset about something isn’t “creating drama.” That’s a very limited way of thinking about it.

Obviously some complaints are legitimate.

But let’s face it: lots of women are easily offended and looking for drama.

Lots of women triangulate and seemingly enjoy turning a group against someone.

Men don’t do this. Women often do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It’s funny to me how many people think I’m currently in some conflict with my friend group. I’m not. I’ve had issues with people in the past which I handled by being honest about it and zero regrets— it was an effective way to either address a difference with a friend or to purge a friend from my life who wasn’t a good fit. I’ve just never seen the point in beating around the bush.

Also weird how many people think stating a personal opinion is gossip. That’s not gossip. Gossip is when you discuss someone else’s life behind their back as a form of entertainment or out of boredom. It’s gross. I hate gossip precisely because it’s catty and passive aggressive. Again, my preference is to clearly discuss any issues in a direct and productive way,

Also, I’m pretty tactful. I think that might help with this approach? I’ve definitely encountered people who are “honest” but in mean-spirited, unpleasant ways. Even then, I prefer the truth to being polite, but I get how that can be more disruptive in a friend group (tho would argue the problem is not the directness, but the meanness, which I consider different factors). Perhaps I have been fortunate to have friends who both have good manners and feel comfortable telling and hearing the truth.

If this friend is in your friend group and the group doesn't share your opinion, then how are you "purging" the person you don't like? The group may decide to keep her and bounce you if you cause too much drama by refusing to invite her. Telling someone to their face you just can't stand them doesn't sound like addressing a difference. You want her to know exactly how you feel and there just isn't a tactful way to do that. Be prepared to be cast out from this group if you continue on your scorched earth mission of being totally honest.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I would never walk up to someone and say “I can’t stand you.” That’s bizarre behavior and if I did that, I wouldn’t have friends at all.

When this has happened to me in the past, I don’t attempt to hide my feelings. I had a friend once who was really rude to service people. I hated it. It embarrassed me when we went out as a group and it also just offends me as someone who has worked those jobs. So when it would happen, I would express my feelings in the moment, for instance by apologizing to a waiter she was rude to. And I started telling people I didn’t want to join group outings she was involved in because her behavior made me uncomfortable. In the end, that friend group kind of dissolved. I’m still friends with a few people but it’s not a regular dinner or drinks thing.

And like I said— no regrets. I do t think what I did was mean. I was honest and I set a boundary of what I was comfortable with. And as a result, I didn’t have to deal with this woman’s behavior anymore. I also think it was an opportunity for her to learn that her behavior was upsetting, and not just to the service folks she used to berate. She’s not my friend anymore, but maybe this experienced helped her learn to be kinder to people. Though I doubt it.

Well, according to your 4 options, option 1 is "tell people you don't like her" that's pretty clear. And of course that will get back to the person in question, which is probably the intent. Where have I put words in your mouth? If the person said something to you that you took issue with, then it should have been dealt with at the time. You haven't said exactly what this person did to you to cause your ire. Why were you not upfront at the time to directly address it then if that is your MO?

You said I was suggesting walking up to someone and saying “I don’t like you.” I never said that.

This person was rude to waiters and other service people. Do I need to be more specific? She would berate someone for making an honest mistake, like mixing up a drink order, before they even had a chance to fix it. She would demand to speak to management over minor things, thus jeopardizing the employment of a low paid worker over dumb stuff.

The first couple times it happened, I let it slide because I figured she was having a d day or thought I misunderstood the situation. When it was clear that it was a pattern, I absolutely voiced my difference of opinion (her behavior reflected poorly on all of us and I’m positive we all got spit in our drinks because of her behavior). And when it didn’t stop, I simply told people I didn’t want to go out with her anymore. I didn’t try to stop anyone else from doing it, I just chose not to. But I liked the other people in the group and continued to socialize with them, but did not invite this other woman because I didn’t like her and she ruined the experience for me.

So I think I was very upfront but within reason (I’m not going to jump down someone throat the second they do something I dislike). I don’t think of you fail to object to something the first time it happens, you’ve lost the privilege. Some people have problem behaviors and attitudes that sneak up on you.

[Anonymous]

Ugh. I’m a fan of staying cordial and sweeping things under the rug. A friend once asked me why I stopped inviting them over. I told her that it was because her children were too destructive in my home (I’m fine with spills/mess, this was actually destroying plumbing fixtures, etc). She got furious and proceeded to tell our whole wider friend group that I had called her a bad mother (not at all what I said).

So much unnecessary drama. I wish I had just lied and said some vague thing about being busy. The truth has been an awkward hassle. I don’t have the energy for this type of stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some women thrive in groups, others are better having a few best friends. Group dynamics can be difficult.

In our group we’ve always been upfront about our beliefs which For the most part very much align. But when it came to schools re-opening people had vastly different views based on personal experiences and needs. Some people spoke out of anxiety which offended others in the group. Instead of calling them on it or explaining what was offensive some people decided to leave the group chat. Unfortunate and now there’s a level of awkwardness. This past year between politics, schools, Covid, etc. has definitely brought to light who your real tribe is.

I’m sorry that happened. I agree this last year has been a kind of crucible for friendships. When it comes to politics, especially really personal political issues like how we educate our kids or racism in our own communities, I think it’s hard to just paper over things with pleasantness.

Recently one of my close friends jumped the vaccine line. Technically qualified but in a very shady way. When I found out I was kind of horrified. I was stressed about whether or not to say anything, but then last night on our group call, it was a relief because two other friends called it out before me. We were able to have a group conversation about it that I think was good for everyone. I’m really glad it got discussed (and grateful to my friends who had the guts to bring it up) because I think it’s the kind of thing that would cause long term awkwardness and resentment. I’m still annoyed with my friend, but I think we’ll be okay now because my feelings are out there and now I feel better. Hopefully others do too.

Was the person who jumped the line (by your standards) on the call, or was your group talking about her?

I don’t understand the need to discuss everything. It’s almost like some women look for reasons to get upset and then fixate on it. Like a DP said, most women just want to have a pleasant time.

Keep it casual. Rally around people who need support. Don’t create drama.

They were on the call.

I have to discuss stuff. To me, avoiding certain things gets in the way of that pleasant time. It’s okay, it just means you and I wouldn’t make good friends.

Also, no one “looks for stuff to get upset about.” People are either bothered by something or not. Some people aren’t bothered by anything, even very upsetting things. Others are bothered by lots of things, even seemingly innocuous things. It usually has to do with their prior experiences (including past trauma), anxiety levels, and current support system. You don’t have to be friends with everyone, but a person who is genuinely upset about something isn’t “creating drama.” That’s a very limited way of thinking about it.

Obviously some complaints are legitimate.

But let’s face it: lots of women are easily offended and looking for drama.

Lots of women triangulate and seemingly enjoy turning a group against someone.

Men don’t do this. Women often do it.

Np, I was with you until the “‘men don’t do this” line. I am SO sick of this sentiment that acts like men are just superior to women relationships-wise. Sure, let’s look to men for healthy, deep, meaningful relationships 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some women thrive in groups, others are better having a few best friends. Group dynamics can be difficult.

In our group we’ve always been upfront about our beliefs which For the most part very much align. But when it came to schools re-opening people had vastly different views based on personal experiences and needs. Some people spoke out of anxiety which offended others in the group. Instead of calling them on it or explaining what was offensive some people decided to leave the group chat. Unfortunate and now there’s a level of awkwardness. This past year between politics, schools, Covid, etc. has definitely brought to light who your real tribe is.

I’m sorry that happened. I agree this last year has been a kind of crucible for friendships. When it comes to politics, especially really personal political issues like how we educate our kids or racism in our own communities, I think it’s hard to just paper over things with pleasantness.

Recently one of my close friends jumped the vaccine line. Technically qualified but in a very shady way. When I found out I was kind of horrified. I was stressed about whether or not to say anything, but then last night on our group call, it was a relief because two other friends called it out before me. We were able to have a group conversation about it that I think was good for everyone. I’m really glad it got discussed (and grateful to my friends who had the guts to bring it up) because I think it’s the kind of thing that would cause long term awkwardness and resentment. I’m still annoyed with my friend, but I think we’ll be okay now because my feelings are out there and now I feel better. Hopefully others do too.

Was the person who jumped the line (by your standards) on the call, or was your group talking about her?

I don’t understand the need to discuss everything. It’s almost like some women look for reasons to get upset and then fixate on it. Like a DP said, most women just want to have a pleasant time.

Keep it casual. Rally around people who need support. Don’t create drama.

They were on the call.

I have to discuss stuff. To me, avoiding certain things gets in the way of that pleasant time. It’s okay, it just means you and I wouldn’t make good friends.

Also, no one “looks for stuff to get upset about.” People are either bothered by something or not. Some people aren’t bothered by anything, even very upsetting things. Others are bothered by lots of things, even seemingly innocuous things. It usually has to do with their prior experiences (including past trauma), anxiety levels, and current support system. You don’t have to be friends with everyone, but a person who is genuinely upset about something isn’t “creating drama.” That’s a very limited way of thinking about it.

Obviously some complaints are legitimate.

But let’s face it: lots of women are easily offended and looking for drama.

Lots of women triangulate and seemingly enjoy turning a group against someone.

Men don’t do this. Women often do it.

Hmm, IME the people who are easily offended are never the people who enjoy turning a group against someone. I’ve seen both, but they are different things. Some people are sensitive (sometimes for very valid reasons that you may not understand). Some people are manipulative psychopaths. These are usually not the same people.

Also, men definitely do this. The most gossipy person I know, who actively loves causing drama in friend groups, is a man. He seems to have finally outgrown it, but he was the resident drama-maker in our friend group for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. I’m a fan of staying cordial and sweeping things under the rug. A friend once asked me why I stopped inviting them over. I told her that it was because her children were too destructive in my home (I’m fine with spills/mess, this was actually destroying plumbing fixtures, etc). She got furious and proceeded to tell our whole wider friend group that I had called her a bad mother (not at all what I said).

So much unnecessary drama. I wish I had just lied and said some vague thing about being busy. The truth has been an awkward hassle. I don’t have the energy for this type of stuff.

Agree that in this situation it would have been much better to lie. Though this isn’t a situation where you disliked this woman. So I think it’s different. The ironic thing is that if you had stopped inviting her because if her personality, not her kids, you probably would have lied instinctively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It’s funny to me how many people think I’m currently in some conflict with my friend group. I’m not. I’ve had issues with people in the past which I handled by being honest about it and zero regrets— it was an effective way to either address a difference with a friend or to purge a friend from my life who wasn’t a good fit. I’ve just never seen the point in beating around the bush.

Also weird how many people think stating a personal opinion is gossip. That’s not gossip. Gossip is when you discuss someone else’s life behind their back as a form of entertainment or out of boredom. It’s gross. I hate gossip precisely because it’s catty and passive aggressive. Again, my preference is to clearly discuss any issues in a direct and productive way,

Also, I’m pretty tactful. I think that might help with this approach? I’ve definitely encountered people who are “honest” but in mean-spirited, unpleasant ways. Even then, I prefer the truth to being polite, but I get how that can be more disruptive in a friend group (tho would argue the problem is not the directness, but the meanness, which I consider different factors). Perhaps I have been fortunate to have friends who both have good manners and feel comfortable telling and hearing the truth.

If this friend is in your friend group and the group doesn't share your opinion, then how are you "purging" the person you don't like? The group may decide to keep her and bounce you if you cause too much drama by refusing to invite her. Telling someone to their face you just can't stand them doesn't sound like addressing a difference. You want her to know exactly how you feel and there just isn't a tactful way to do that. Be prepared to be cast out from this group if you continue on your scorched earth mission of being totally honest.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I would never walk up to someone and say “I can’t stand you.” That’s bizarre behavior and if I did that, I wouldn’t have friends at all.

When this has happened to me in the past, I don’t attempt to hide my feelings. I had a friend once who was really rude to service people. I hated it. It embarrassed me when we went out as a group and it also just offends me as someone who has worked those jobs. So when it would happen, I would express my feelings in the moment, for instance by apologizing to a waiter she was rude to. And I started telling people I didn’t want to join group outings she was involved in because her behavior made me uncomfortable. In the end, that friend group kind of dissolved. I’m still friends with a few people but it’s not a regular dinner or drinks thing.

And like I said— no regrets. I do t think what I did was mean. I was honest and I set a boundary of what I was comfortable with. And as a result, I didn’t have to deal with this woman’s behavior anymore. I also think it was an opportunity for her to learn that her behavior was upsetting, and not just to the service folks she used to berate. She’s not my friend anymore, but maybe this experienced helped her learn to be kinder to people. Though I doubt it.

Well, according to your 4 options, option 1 is "tell people you don't like her" that's pretty clear. And of course that will get back to the person in question, which is probably the intent. Where have I put words in your mouth? If the person said something to you that you took issue with, then it should have been dealt with at the time. You haven't said exactly what this person did to you to cause your ire. Why were you not upfront at the time to directly address it then if that is your MO?

You said I was suggesting walking up to someone and saying “I don’t like you.” I never said that.

This person was rude to waiters and other service people. Do I need to be more specific? She would berate someone for making an honest mistake, like mixing up a drink order, before they even had a chance to fix it. She would demand to speak to management over minor things, thus jeopardizing the employment of a low paid worker over dumb stuff.

The first couple times it happened, I let it slide because I figured she was having a d day or thought I misunderstood the situation. When it was clear that it was a pattern, I absolutely voiced my difference of opinion (her behavior reflected poorly on all of us and I’m positive we all got spit in our drinks because of her behavior). And when it didn’t stop, I simply told people I didn’t want to go out with her anymore. I didn’t try to stop anyone else from doing it, I just chose not to. But I liked the other people in the group and continued to socialize with them, but did not invite this other woman because I didn’t like her and she ruined the experience for me.

So I think I was very upfront but within reason (I’m not going to jump down someone throat the second they do something I dislike). I don’t think of you fail to object to something the first time it happens, you’ve lost the privilege. Some people have problem behaviors and attitudes that sneak up on you.

So this is all a lame hypothetical. You say you choose option 1 but instead you called the person out on their behavior right then and there. Why didn't you create an option #5 to discuss at the time of the offense what you didn't like about the behavior since that's what you choose to do and what others probably do as well? Instead of 2 different options of sniping and gossiping behind someone's back, and 2 different options of basically doing nothing. So there needs to be an option for doing what you did of "voiced a difference of opinion." Are you really bored or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - you're talking in extremes

Agree with this.

I’ve been in this situation. Friend group from college that’s still very close. Started out as 10-12 people, with folks getting married (and thus the addition of spouses) it’s at more like 16 now (some married each other, some faded from the group over the years). Generally, my closest friends in the group knew I wasn’t a fan of Larla, but it’s not like I was just walking up to people and saying “Larla’s the worst”. Larla also knew I wasn’t a fan, and the feeling was mutual. So it’s not a source of drama and lots of discussion but it also isn’t a secret. I always include her in stuff because she is part of the group and she does the same for me (we were at each other’s weddings). There’s no need to be exclusionary, and the group dynamics are really wonderful. We can have a conversation, but generally we’re sitting next to other people whose company we prefer. I’m always friendly and kind to her, but I wouldn’t say it’s an act, it’s just being an adult. We, essentially, have tons of people we adore in common, and so we treat each other with respect and kindness.

No secrets, no drama, no acting. It works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some women thrive in groups, others are better having a few best friends. Group dynamics can be difficult.

In our group we’ve always been upfront about our beliefs which For the most part very much align. But when it came to schools re-opening people had vastly different views based on personal experiences and needs. Some people spoke out of anxiety which offended others in the group. Instead of calling them on it or explaining what was offensive some people decided to leave the group chat. Unfortunate and now there’s a level of awkwardness. This past year between politics, schools, Covid, etc. has definitely brought to light who your real tribe is.

I’m sorry that happened. I agree this last year has been a kind of crucible for friendships. When it comes to politics, especially really personal political issues like how we educate our kids or racism in our own communities, I think it’s hard to just paper over things with pleasantness.

Recently one of my close friends jumped the vaccine line. Technically qualified but in a very shady way. When I found out I was kind of horrified. I was stressed about whether or not to say anything, but then last night on our group call, it was a relief because two other friends called it out before me. We were able to have a group conversation about it that I think was good for everyone. I’m really glad it got discussed (and grateful to my friends who had the guts to bring it up) because I think it’s the kind of thing that would cause long term awkwardness and resentment. I’m still annoyed with my friend, but I think we’ll be okay now because my feelings are out there and now I feel better. Hopefully others do too.

Was the person who jumped the line (by your standards) on the call, or was your group talking about her?

I don’t understand the need to discuss everything. It’s almost like some women look for reasons to get upset and then fixate on it. Like a DP said, most women just want to have a pleasant time.

Keep it casual. Rally around people who need support. Don’t create drama.

They were on the call.

I have to discuss stuff. To me, avoiding certain things gets in the way of that pleasant time. It’s okay, it just means you and I wouldn’t make good friends.

Also, no one “looks for stuff to get upset about.” People are either bothered by something or not. Some people aren’t bothered by anything, even very upsetting things. Others are bothered by lots of things, even seemingly innocuous things. It usually has to do with their prior experiences (including past trauma), anxiety levels, and current support system. You don’t have to be friends with everyone, but a person who is genuinely upset about something isn’t “creating drama.” That’s a very limited way of thinking about it.

Obviously some complaints are legitimate.

But let’s face it: lots of women are easily offended and looking for drama.

Lots of women triangulate and seemingly enjoy turning a group against someone.

Men don’t do this. Women often do it.

Np, I was with you until the “‘men don’t do this” line. I am SO sick of this sentiment that acts like men are just superior to women relationships-wise. Sure, let’s look to men for healthy, deep, meaningful relationships 🙄

My husband has maintained healthy, deep, long term friendships from grade school and college as well as with parents of kids from school (our kids are much older now). Men help each other out. They discuss their own problems. What they don’t do is point out other people’s flaws, get easily offended, or start drama. My husband has helped friends deal with divorce, addiction, job loss, cancer, aging parents, financial woes, parenting issues, etc. You’ll notice I didn’t mention politics, jumping a covid vaccination line, gossip, not inviting someone to a party, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some women thrive in groups, others are better having a few best friends. Group dynamics can be difficult.

In our group we’ve always been upfront about our beliefs which For the most part very much align. But when it came to schools re-opening people had vastly different views based on personal experiences and needs. Some people spoke out of anxiety which offended others in the group. Instead of calling them on it or explaining what was offensive some people decided to leave the group chat. Unfortunate and now there’s a level of awkwardness. This past year between politics, schools, Covid, etc. has definitely brought to light who your real tribe is.

I’m sorry that happened. I agree this last year has been a kind of crucible for friendships. When it comes to politics, especially really personal political issues like how we educate our kids or racism in our own communities, I think it’s hard to just paper over things with pleasantness.

Recently one of my close friends jumped the vaccine line. Technically qualified but in a very shady way. When I found out I was kind of horrified. I was stressed about whether or not to say anything, but then last night on our group call, it was a relief because two other friends called it out before me. We were able to have a group conversation about it that I think was good for everyone. I’m really glad it got discussed (and grateful to my friends who had the guts to bring it up) because I think it’s the kind of thing that would cause long term awkwardness and resentment. I’m still annoyed with my friend, but I think we’ll be okay now because my feelings are out there and now I feel better. Hopefully others do too.

Was the person who jumped the line (by your standards) on the call, or was your group talking about her?

I don’t understand the need to discuss everything. It’s almost like some women look for reasons to get upset and then fixate on it. Like a DP said, most women just want to have a pleasant time.

Keep it casual. Rally around people who need support. Don’t create drama.

They were on the call.

I have to discuss stuff. To me, avoiding certain things gets in the way of that pleasant time. It’s okay, it just means you and I wouldn’t make good friends.

Also, no one “looks for stuff to get upset about.” People are either bothered by something or not. Some people aren’t bothered by anything, even very upsetting things. Others are bothered by lots of things, even seemingly innocuous things. It usually has to do with their prior experiences (including past trauma), anxiety levels, and current support system. You don’t have to be friends with everyone, but a person who is genuinely upset about something isn’t “creating drama.” That’s a very limited way of thinking about it.

Obviously some complaints are legitimate.

But let’s face it: lots of women are easily offended and looking for drama.

Lots of women triangulate and seemingly enjoy turning a group against someone.

Men don’t do this. Women often do it.

Np, I was with you until the “‘men don’t do this” line. I am SO sick of this sentiment that acts like men are just superior to women relationships-wise. Sure, let’s look to men for healthy, deep, meaningful relationships 🙄

My husband has maintained healthy, deep, long term friendships from grade school and college as well as with parents of kids from school (our kids are much older now). Men help each other out. They discuss their own problems. What they don’t do is point out other people’s flaws, get easily offended, or start drama. My husband has helped friends deal with divorce, addiction, job loss, cancer, aging parents, financial woes, parenting issues, etc. You’ll notice I didn’t mention politics, jumping a covid vaccination line, gossip, not inviting someone to a party, etc.

Men definitely point out other people's flaws sometimes. I know because they've done it to me! And some men get offended easily, some don't -- just like with women, there is a range. The difference is that when a woman is offended (even if she rarely gets offended and even if her offense is justified) people say "OMG women are so easily offended!" Whereas when a man is offended, it's not treated as "being offended", it's treated as having a real issue or concern that should be addressed. Because we treat men's feelings as facts and women's feelings as imaginary.

Plus the phrase "start drama" is loaded with misogyny. Again, this is something only women are ever accused of. If male friends have a difference of opinion or a falling out, no one says "ugh, drama." My dad didn't speak to one of his brothers for almost ten years over, yep, hurt feelings, and no one ever accused either of them of being dramatic. People said "oh, well it's their pride." Because men have pride. Women only have drama.

I'm glad your husband is supportive of his friends. I know lots of women who are supportive of their friends in the exact same way. I would argue it's more common for women to be support each other this way -- many men struggle with adult friendships because they are not conditioned to talk about their feelings or to ask for help.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would never tell other people - that’s just mean.

Why is it mean to say you don’t like someone? I’m not trolling, I really don’t get it.

Or maybe I get that it’s mean but I just think a little meanness is ok if it’s rooted in honesty. Not sure. I’m surprised how many people in this thread are saying they would just keep their feelings to themselves.

Just because something is true doesn’t mean it needs to be public. Do you announce to the group if you go take a dump? Why not, if it’s true? Do you tell the server when you go out for girls night if you dislike her hair? Why not, if it’s true? Sometimes things don’t need to be shared because they’re better left private or they could hurt someone’s feelings.

What purpose do you hope to achieve by saying you dislike this person? Are you hoping someone else will agree and you won’t be alone in your dislike? Maybe start edging her out of the group? Do you just need to get it off your chest? You could probably share with someone who doesn’t know her and then it wouldn’t make your group feel awkward.

If you really don’t get why it’s not polite to say you dislike one person in your group to another person in that group, or to that person herself, maybe reflect on how well you understand social cues and see if there’s a pattern of you making what DCUM would consider missteps on a regular basis. Are you often outspoken and offending people for the sake of honesty? Do you feel like manners and polite social norms are fake and not worthy of your time or effort?

I think you are missing the point that in this scenario, I have a reason to dislike this person. I don’t just randomly dislike someone because of the sound or their voice or the way they look. Personally, I’ve never disliked someone who wasn’t a jerk either to me or someone I care about. So saying “Yeah, I don’t like her” isn’t some random attack on an innocent person. It’s an expression of my experience. “Yeah, I don’t like her. She never pays her portion of a group tab” or “she mocked Jenny behind her back and Jenny is my best friend” or “she told people at work about my anxiety disorder without considering that it was private mental health issue.”

I don’t get the pearl clutching. Yes, if I dislike someone and have a good reason for it (which, since I’m a rational person, I must) then of course I’m going to tell people that I dislike them. Why would I keep that to myself? Good manners? What does that even mean in this situation? I disagree with a social norm that says if someone hurts me or someone else, I’m required to be quiet about it because that’s more polite.

If you don't like her, you don't have to be around her! Da dee! Problem solved.

Remove YOURSELF from the group if you can't stand being around her.

Oh wants that? You still want to be around the group?

Well then suck it up, Buttercup. The tribe has spoken. They like her enough to keep inviting her around.

The tribe has spoken: she's in. Now you decide: are you in or out?

Yes! This! "The tribe has spoken," and this woman is in the tribe, whether OP likes it or not. No one is forcing you to be in this group. But yeah. This group includes her. In or out?

What on earth are you all talking about? That’s not how friendship works. I wouldn’t want to be part of a group where you can never level a valid criticism of another member without incurring the wrath of the rest of the group. What if people have real, important differences to be addressed? You just kick out the person who has the guts to speak up? This is cult-y.

Ummmmm did I miss the part where OP tried to address the problems 1:1 or with the help of one other friend?

Nope, she didn’t do that. She just wants others to agree with dislike and turn the other woman out.

Bit the other women clearly like this woman enough to forgive or accept any flaws or missteps. My friends aren’t perfect. But if I have a deep problem with someone, I simply remove myself from the equation. I don’t expect a whole group to kick someone else out just on my account.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. It’s funny to me how many people think I’m currently in some conflict with my friend group. I’m not. I’ve had issues with people in the past which I handled by being honest about it and zero regrets— it was an effective way to either address a difference with a friend or to purge a friend from my life who wasn’t a good fit. I’ve just never seen the point in beating around the bush.

Also weird how many people think stating a personal opinion is gossip. That’s not gossip. Gossip is when you discuss someone else’s life behind their back as a form of entertainment or out of boredom. It’s gross. I hate gossip precisely because it’s catty and passive aggressive. Again, my preference is to clearly discuss any issues in a direct and productive way,

Also, I’m pretty tactful. I think that might help with this approach? I’ve definitely encountered people who are “honest” but in mean-spirited, unpleasant ways. Even then, I prefer the truth to being polite, but I get how that can be more disruptive in a friend group (tho would argue the problem is not the directness, but the meanness, which I consider different factors). Perhaps I have been fortunate to have friends who both have good manners and feel comfortable telling and hearing the truth.

If this friend is in your friend group and the group doesn't share your opinion, then how are you "purging" the person you don't like? The group may decide to keep her and bounce you if you cause too much drama by refusing to invite her. Telling someone to their face you just can't stand them doesn't sound like addressing a difference. You want her to know exactly how you feel and there just isn't a tactful way to do that. Be prepared to be cast out from this group if you continue on your scorched earth mission of being totally honest.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I would never walk up to someone and say “I can’t stand you.” That’s bizarre behavior and if I did that, I wouldn’t have friends at all.

When this has happened to me in the past, I don’t attempt to hide my feelings. I had a friend once who was really rude to service people. I hated it. It embarrassed me when we went out as a group and it also just offends me as someone who has worked those jobs. So when it would happen, I would express my feelings in the moment, for instance by apologizing to a waiter she was rude to. And I started telling people I didn’t want to join group outings she was involved in because her behavior made me uncomfortable. In the end, that friend group kind of dissolved. I’m still friends with a few people but it’s not a regular dinner or drinks thing.

And like I said— no regrets. I do t think what I did was mean. I was honest and I set a boundary of what I was comfortable with. And as a result, I didn’t have to deal with this woman’s behavior anymore. I also think it was an opportunity for her to learn that her behavior was upsetting, and not just to the service folks she used to berate. She’s not my friend anymore, but maybe this experienced helped her learn to be kinder to people. Though I doubt it.

Well, according to your 4 options, option 1 is "tell people you don't like her" that's pretty clear. And of course that will get back to the person in question, which is probably the intent. Where have I put words in your mouth? If the person said something to you that you took issue with, then it should have been dealt with at the time. You haven't said exactly what this person did to you to cause your ire. Why were you not upfront at the time to directly address it then if that is your MO?

You said I was suggesting walking up to someone and saying “I don’t like you.” I never said that.

This person was rude to waiters and other service people. Do I need to be more specific? She would berate someone for making an honest mistake, like mixing up a drink order, before they even had a chance to fix it. She would demand to speak to management over minor things, thus jeopardizing the employment of a low paid worker over dumb stuff.

The first couple times it happened, I let it slide because I figured she was having a d day or thought I misunderstood the situation. When it was clear that it was a pattern, I absolutely voiced my difference of opinion (her behavior reflected poorly on all of us and I’m positive we all got spit in our drinks because of her behavior). And when it didn’t stop, I simply told people I didn’t want to go out with her anymore. I didn’t try to stop anyone else from doing it, I just chose not to. But I liked the other people in the group and continued to socialize with them, but did not invite this other woman because I didn’t like her and she ruined the experience for me.

So I think I was very upfront but within reason (I’m not going to jump down someone throat the second they do something I dislike). I don’t think of you fail to object to something the first time it happens, you’ve lost the privilege. Some people have problem behaviors and attitudes that sneak up on you.

So this is all a lame hypothetical. You say you choose option 1 but instead you called the person out on their behavior right then and there. Why didn't you create an option #5 to discuss at the time of the offense what you didn't like about the behavior since that's what you choose to do and what others probably do as well? Instead of 2 different options of sniping and gossiping behind someone's back, and 2 different options of basically doing nothing. So there needs to be an option for doing what you did of "voiced a difference of opinion." Are you really bored or something?

It's my thread so I'm going to pose it the way I want to. I think you are looking for conflict where there need not be any -- I was genuinely interested in how people approach this problem after discussing differing approaches with my friend. If your opinion is that there should be a 5th option, cool -- tell me more about it! Instead you are interrogating me about an imaginary problem (again, I have no current conflict with any of my friends and I'm not asking for advice), then getting mad about an example I provided, then arguing over the details of that example to prove... what exactly? Still not clear on your point.

So yes, if you and I were friends (which I guarantee we are not), I would absolutely be telling people at this point, "Oh, no, I don't want to come if Larla will be there -- she constantly picks fights with me over nothing and it's exhausting. You guys have fun though!" I'm sure you'd accuse me of starting drama but, and I hate to say this because I realize now it's triggering for some people, I'm just being honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It’s funny to me how many people think I’m currently in some conflict with my friend group. I’m not. I’ve had issues with people in the past which I handled by being honest about it and zero regrets— it was an effective way to either address a difference with a friend or to purge a friend from my life who wasn’t a good fit. I’ve just never seen the point in beating around the bush.

Also weird how many people think stating a personal opinion is gossip. That’s not gossip. Gossip is when you discuss someone else’s life behind their back as a form of entertainment or out of boredom. It’s gross. I hate gossip precisely because it’s catty and passive aggressive. Again, my preference is to clearly discuss any issues in a direct and productive way,

Also, I’m pretty tactful. I think that might help with this approach? I’ve definitely encountered people who are “honest” but in mean-spirited, unpleasant ways. Even then, I prefer the truth to being polite, but I get how that can be more disruptive in a friend group (tho would argue the problem is not the directness, but the meanness, which I consider different factors). Perhaps I have been fortunate to have friends who both have good manners and feel comfortable telling and hearing the truth.

Sounds like you need no help and have this all figured out, OP! Go try tactic 1 or 2 and be sure to report back how it went. Give me some advance warning so I can get my cocktail and snack ready.

Hahaha, you’re “tactful.”

[Anonymous]

I have become more like my husband. I have stopped being in the middle of drama trying to right every wrong. I withdraw from others when what they say is offensive. I try to make my position clear to others. And after seeing a lot of deaths and illness in my family last year, I have learned that life is too short to hang out with one set of people for everything.

My solace us that I am really close to a my DH, my kids and my SILs and siblings.

Then I have friends who are thoughtful and analytical so they become a great source of intellectual stimulation.