WWYD: DH becoming cheap, workaholic

[Anonymous]

I’m just chiming in to say that the people encouraging OP to get a divorce go up her standard of living are utter scum. Wow. Truly sick and unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

if u want to spend money then get a job and spend your money.

she is working. She is both housekeeping and nanny to four kids. There are no cleaners here , no babysitters, and no childcare. Her services would be worth more than 50k/year (esp if you count overtime).

OP you are not going to get anywhere on the working long hours front. But the financial disparity is not okay, especially when you have plenty of money. And its not just disparaity--basicallly he is saying that only his needs and desires are valid and he dismisses yours. That's...not okay.

He does not get to make 100% of the decisions about how you live as a family and does not get to veto things. I mean, even with the house, you spend much more time in in a (and presumably clean it etc) than he does, so why does he get to veto a new home? Seems to me that you shoul dbe able to talk with a financial advisor together (yes he is in finance but you need someone to lay out what the reality is of your finances, he seems to want to accumulate wealth at the expensive of living). Honestly, I think you need to have a serious talk and a couple sessions with a therapist to work this out. Otherwise, the options are you get a teaching job and he is responsible for 50% of the childcare; you separate and suddenly both his time and money will be cut in half. Or, he can be reasonable about spending XX on some vacations (with or without him), a new home, and cleaners.
.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m just chiming in to say that the people encouraging OP to get a divorce go up her standard of living are utter scum. Wow. Truly sick and unbelievable.

I abhor divorce but this type of controlling narcissistic behavior from DH suggests it is unfixable.

I mean he’s not cheap about things he cares about like the car and gold club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just chiming in to say that the people encouraging OP to get a divorce go up her standard of living are utter scum. Wow. Truly sick and unbelievable.

I abhor divorce but this type of controlling narcissistic behavior from DH suggests it is unfixable.

I mean he’s not cheap about things he cares about like the car and gold club.

To elaborate if he refuses counseling what is her recourse? With hold sex? Go on strike at home? That will quickly escalate and divorce will be result again.

[Anonymous]

The first thing you do is open up at least one credit card in your name only. This is crazy to have him monitor *everything*. You could start with a Nordstroms card - it is free and the customer service is fantastic. There is no reason to have all cards joint. In fact, if one spouse dies then the other spouse is not liable for that debt. It is smarter to have separate credit cards.

When the pandemic is over and your husband is not around constantly, hire a financial advisor yourself to advise you personally. This will cost about 5K. It will be YOUR financial advisor. That person will help you understand what is going on with the finances. If you are looking at $70K per year per child for 4 years of ivy league college, plus help with grad school and their first car...weddings....now maybe it all makes sense. Or not. Many couples these days have separate financial advisors.

You also need two accounts at separate bank from the one your husband usually uses. One account will be a joint savings account with your husband and the other account will be an individual checking account in your name only. Most of your side money for running the household would be kept in the joint account and your financial advisor will explain the reasons. You are not a child and do not need your husbands permission for a small amount of autonomy.

[Anonymous]

There clearly needs to be a “come to Jesus” conversation about roles and responsibilities within the family. Right now his role is solely as breadwinner and he has outsourced all of the family and home stuff to OP. He couldn’t work the kind of hours he does without a very supportive spouse at home. Her SAHM status enables the high earning. It’s *their* money and they need to jointly agree how a lot of it is spent. OP is clearly fine with DH having a healthy amount of “fun” money (car and golf), but OP shouldn’t be a financial prisoner.

At this point, I think OP should focus less on the house issue and more around discretionary funds for things like a handyman and vacations and running the home life as she sees fit (since that is her job) - unless her DH would like to take on more of the family responsibilities which would likely impact her career growth.

They also need to have some conversations about what their goals are in savings and budget accordingly.

[Anonymous]

I can relate OP. My DH makes a great income, is a workaholic, and super cheap. The frugalness has become worse with age.
But yeah, we also live in a house where kids have to share a room, take road trip type vacations (not with extended family, thank god), and are generally pretty low key in everything. He won't hire out any help for anything ever. The only thing help he is ok with is babysitters.

On the other hand: Our families have no assets and we will not be getting a dime of inheritance. We had to build our own lives from absolutely nothing. That is/was expensive. Plus add on our childrens' college funds and retirement and I understand his stress to save.

Did your DH grow up in a different country? Mine did and we have very different views on money largely due to how we were raised and culture

[Anonymous]

OP, Your husband would be considered a catch on the Mr Money Mustache forum.

1. It sounds like your kids college funds are paid for.
2. It sounds like your husband can retire early and the two of you won't have to work jobs in your 70's to pay the bills.
3. You don't have financial problems that most of America has.
4. There is nothing wrong with kids sharing rooms.

OP--do you work out of the house? Why don't you get a job out of the house so you have some additional money to call your own and to spend on luxuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if u want to spend money then get a job and spend your money.

Yeah, you guys are in your 40s, kids are in school, get a part time job and use that slush fund for fun.

Probably should get counseling, but at this point you have little recourse. In our house everyone has "veto" power -- I can say no to something my spouse can buy and vice versa, and it sounds like you sorta of have that.

If you want impunity of spending, you need separate accounts and either have him give you an "allowance" or earn your own.

Well I can’t get a job until the Pandemic ends and kids go back to school full time. The younger ones need a lot of organizational help and hand holding on the asynchronous days.

Plus the 4 yo won’t start full time school for another year and a half.

The thing is though, even I got a job, I would be making so much less than him it would be laughable. How would me making ~ 50k really change our dynamic? This is what I wonder. It’s not like we’re not going on vacation now because we can’t afford it. He made over a million dollars last year. We can afford an extra vacation. He just doesn’t want to take the time off for it and he doesn’t want me to go alone.

Yeah, but your $50k would be yours to do whatever you want with, and a $50k vacation would be very very nice. Are you sure it would be *that* low? What is your career/education?

And even just contributing something can change the dynamic.

How many kids do you have? You have older and younger ones in school, and a 4 year old in your 40s??????

I was a teacher. I haven’t worked in ten years. Oldest is 12, youngest is 4. I’m 42.

OMG, teachers can make buckets of money tutoring right now. Just schedule it for when your 12 year old is free to watch the 4 year old. We pay $85/hr to teacher for math help b/c DL is such a travesty.

OP, get some sidework tutoring. You will feel better about yourself and be making some money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Is he spending money on something else without telling you, and

2. Do you have joint accounts and credit cards and can you access all the financial information?

3. If all seems above-board, then you have to sit him down and that say that you have serious concerns about this marriage because he gets to do everything he wants, and refuses to do the things you want. It's fundamentally unfair.

4. Over the course of several conversations, you have to convince him that you get a say in how money is spent, you need a break even if he doesn't. He needs to understand a very important concept that he is not like most people and that he needs to take other people's needs into account.

5. I would refuse to take that in-law vacation and I would book a nice trip (post-pandemic) for myself and the children, with perhaps your relatives or friends. It's your money too, and you only have one life to live, OP. Don't live on his terms and stay miserable.

1. No

2. Yes

3. We have had this kind of conversation but it never goes well. The last time we had it was when he bought an expensive car. He was like "I work hard and I deserve this." Which I don't disagree with. The time before that was when he wanted to join a $$$ for golf. Again, I don't have a problem with that if we can do other things like travel. But it's weird when he refuses my requests to hire household help. We don't have any cleaning or law help. He won't even let me hire painters or handymen and insists of fixing things around the house himself. I can't get him to see why this is weird though. He's very much a "why would I hire someone to do something for me when I can do it myself."

4. He was really against the idea of my taking the kids away on a vacation by myself.

To answer the other poster's question, he's in his early forties. I don't think he is worried about his specific job but he does see that the industry is changing. We have a lot of money saved though. I don't know what he thinks we need this money for since he has no plans to use it on anything besides the kids' college educations.

HI OP,

Get an appointment with a therapist and come up with a script to talk about the vacation issue.

"Honey, after we spend the week with your parents at Rehoboth I've booked a place in Ocean City for an additional 3 weeks. We can drive
over to your parents in two cars and at the end I'll drive down to OC with the kids. I think it important to spend time with the kids
while we still have the kids. You can work remotely at OC with us or drive down on the weekends to spend time with us."

Other alternatives would be for you to take the kids camping at Assateague or Shenandoah. Vacations don't have to be pricey.

He might not like you vacationing with the kids but it sounds like you need a break. i.e. Even if he is against it, schedule, book it,
invite him to come with you and the kids or he can come with you and the kids on the weekends.

Can you schedule Disney with your kids and your parents? Tell husband he is welcome to join.

My girlfriend's husband never wants to travel. She always wants to go international. She will book a trip with a girlfriend 9 months or a year out.
Husband says he does not want to go. About 4 weeks out husband changes mind. Husband goes with them. Sometimes he can't even get on
the same plane so he has to get to Europe on a different plane from wife and her friend.

I'd get a therapist to help you come up with a script re: the vacations.

[Anonymous]

I could have written this, OP. My husband can be the same way. He is a physician, and is frequently picking up extra shifts. We have plenty of money. He has great job security. I am not sure what exactly the extra money is for. He isn’t in finance, so he isn’t really even sure what to do with it.

I do make money as well, but I am in a different specialty, work part time, and make much less than he does. All of our money is in one account, so it is all viewed as family money.

He doesn’t like spending money, and I really don’t like it either. Would I trade a weekend with my husband for a living room rug? No. Of course not. But since I’ve already given up the time, do I buy the rug? And it’s hard not to see it that way.
I can see how he doesn’t like the idea of you and the kids going on a trip while he stays behind to work and pay for it all. But what is the answer? If he is going to stay behind to work either way, and there are no other plans for the money, should you just take the trip?


Also, you have much more power than you think you do in this relationship. He would be kind of screwed if you left. I am guessing that the people saying that you are worth $50k/yr have never hired completely flexible childcare available at the last minute and at any time of day, evening, or weekend. I will give you a hint, you would need more than one person, and it’s more than $50k/yr. You have some cards here. Don’t discount them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It sounds like your living standards would increase if you divorced and lived off child support and half your assets. You can probably negotiate to keep the house — and it’s unlikely you’d be able something more expensive. However you could easily take vacations, hire cleaners, etc. right now it sounds like you have the lifestyle of someone who makes 75K. You would probably get double that (at least) in a divorce. Plus half the retirement accounyes, assets, etc.

Do it.

She will never do this, because she wants the living standards of someone pulling in $1M not $150k.

But she doesn’t have the living standards of someone making 1 million. Their house is 500K and the only vacations she’s allowed to do are to visit her in-laws beach house. She’s also not allowed to hire a handyman or a housekeeper. If she got divorced, she would be able to do all of those things because she would control the money. Having a large HHI that she cannot access does not help her.

She said he grew up poor, how can they own a beach house?

She doesn't have a cleaning lady now - don't add on a second house to clean!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if u want to spend money then get a job and spend your money.

Yeah, you guys are in your 40s, kids are in school, get a part time job and use that slush fund for fun.

Probably should get counseling, but at this point you have little recourse. In our house everyone has "veto" power -- I can say no to something my spouse can buy and vice versa, and it sounds like you sorta of have that.

If you want impunity of spending, you need separate accounts and either have him give you an "allowance" or earn your own.

Well I can’t get a job until the Pandemic ends and kids go back to school full time. The younger ones need a lot of organizational help and hand holding on the asynchronous days.

Plus the 4 yo won’t start full time school for another year and a half.

The thing is though, even I got a job, I would be making so much less than him it would be laughable. How would me making ~ 50k really change our dynamic? This is what I wonder. It’s not like we’re not going on vacation now because we can’t afford it. He made over a million dollars last year. We can afford an extra vacation. He just doesn’t want to take the time off for it and he doesn’t want me to go alone.

Yeah, but your $50k would be yours to do whatever you want with, and a $50k vacation would be very very nice. Are you sure it would be *that* low? What is your career/education?

And even just contributing something can change the dynamic.

How many kids do you have? You have older and younger ones in school, and a 4 year old in your 40s??????

Why do you assume it would be hers to do whatever with? It would go into the family pot, which is where his money goes. He would then have veto power over how it is used. What’s good for the goose, etc.

1) She can setup her own checking account without him even seeing it. 2) It sounds like he got the fancy car and club membership, so she can argue that this is her equivalent 3) he literally will not be able to stop her from spending money from her own account, that she earned and travel. I guess he could keep the kids, but assuming he needs to work I doubt that will happen.

Um, don’t you think this man is going to notice that his wife has a new job? He’s not going to let her have accounts that he can’t access if she is able to access all of his.

Plus he sounds too cheap to pay for daycare. She has to wait until the little one is in school.

1) She can open an account without him being there. how will he "not let her"? 2) Right now she can do tutoring from home while her 12 year old watches the youngest. She could do it this afternoon.

She can open an account in her name with money from their joint account right now. She doesn’t need to have her own separate income to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, Your husband would be considered a catch on the Mr Money Mustache forum.

1. It sounds like your kids college funds are paid for.
2. It sounds like your husband can retire early and the two of you won't have to work jobs in your 70's to pay the bills.
3. You don't have financial problems that most of America has.
4. There is nothing wrong with kids sharing rooms.

OP--do you work out of the house? Why don't you get a job out of the house so you have some additional money to call your own and to spend on luxuries.

Note: Mr. Money Mustache is divorced.

I think a lot of OPs dhs goals are good. It's just that he shouldn't prevent his family from taking one vacation a year (that is not an extended family vacation). If he doesn't want to spend time with the kids and only was his dw to do that, fine. It's just that she needs a vacation too. And vacationing with your own parents or in laws is not typically a relaxing vacation for most women, or at least for me.

OP needs a credit card or two in only her own name, and an "allowance" from dh that she can either spend on herself or the kids, or save.

[Anonymous]

Stop looking for his permission to do things. You aren’t going to get it.
Use the income for the things you want/need. Hire household help, book a trip, etc.
If he really pushes you, then have an attorney draft an estimate for child and spousal support in a divorce. I guarantee you that hiring a housekeeper is cheaper.