unfair to hold a grudge?

[Anonymous]

Wow, why did you wait for this long if you love your wife? Part of the blame is from you too, you shouldn't sat around knowing you are banking one of the most wonderful thing in marriage. It not too late, if you love this women, work with her, ask her if she love you,if she thus,please stay for your family, believe me there's nothing out there. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not only unfair to hold a grudge, it's bad for you and more destructive to the marriage than anything else. Men think that sex=love so they feel unloved when they don't get sex. For women it is entirely different. The fact that she didn't have sex does not mean that she doesn't love you or that she was trying to hurt you. You need to understand that and move on. She is trying to give you what you need and you need to put in the same effort to give her what she needs or you don't have a marriage. Let it go and start from here.

Above is the most ignorant post in this thread. You don't "just move on" from emotional abuse and neglect that spans 1/7th of your life. Is that what you'd tell a child who had been emotionally abused and neglected from 10-20? Just move on? You are obviously ignorant of the kind of suffering and problems this brings to a marriage. If a man only needed sex, we could get it from numerous sources and "feel loved". I married one particular woman and desired to have a full and complete relationship with her and yes- that also includes sex. You sound like my wife. After she royally screws up, she wants to "just move on".

The ignorance in your post seems to think that a guy wrongfully imprisoned for 10 years, when released after it is discovered he didn't do it, should "just move on". In fact, that is pretty damn close to what I imagine it feels like. The problem comes so often after a child is born, that to divorce means the guy will lose nearly everything, so in the context of today's legal system, rather than do the honest thing and divorce her so you can move on, anymore, I advocate an affair until she straightens herself out. It seems like this problem is as common for women as men (surprising to me, but OK). My wife has moved on, but wonders why I really don't burn with passion anymore for her. At some point, she will probably really want what she threw away but four years after the problem went away, I still resent the hell out of her. She now does everything and anything I ever wanted her to do back then. She desperately wants the passion back that I had for her 11 years ago, but all her efforts are failing. She now does oral, porn, and anything I would have wished for back then, and the feeling is just gone.

Sex and love are closely intertwined for men, but it isn't as simple as if you fuck me I will love you. If that was the case, this world would be a very bad and unstable place. Men can have sex with people they love, people they hate, people they could care less about, people who are physically repulsive and so on. Sex does not = love for men. Love = sex for men though.

Let me pile on. PP, I am a SAHM with several young kids including an infant and for me sex=love. I wanted to during each pregnancy and as soon as the doctor gave us the postpartum okay. I want to every day. I did when I was a WOHM. This has destroyed our marriage. I feel incredibly insecure and not close at all to DH despite his many sterling qualities. When I think about us growing old together I can only imagine how much more bitter I will be then. I have gone to three therapists but DH refuses to go. Reading this thread has made me realize I can't stay. As soon as I return to work I plan to give DH one year to seek treatment. Then I'll leave him. I am not even 40.

[Anonymous]

Ops lacking

[Anonymous]

I realize that I am both bitter, angry and resentful. There are many out here who have never experienced what I and the several other posters are saying, and I hope dearly that it stays that way in your life. I don't walk around angry about it, in fact my wife probably thinks that my passion is dying as a result of growing older. The problem is that the passion was killed by her years ago, and unless you are a controlling freak of a spouse, you cannot possibly believe that just because you want something means you will automatically be able to get it. I wanted a sexual relationship with the woman I had a burning passion for and she did not. As a result, I now have a sexual relationship with a woman I love dearly, but the kind of sexual passion and chemistry we shared in the early years of our marriage has been killed. It isn't some choice you make to just walk through the door after work and decide that you will have these feelings again. It doesn't work like that (at least not for me). My wife is trying and I appreciate her efforts though I am now realizing the damage she did to the relationship may be worse than I ever imagined; and possibly worse than if she had an affair and ended it. I am forgiving of bad judgement and mistakes, and if I were unforgiving of her rejections, I wouldn't be with her, but actions; all actions have consequences. You cannot possibly imagine that you can treat somebody like this and expect it not to have consequences far beyond the here and now. Inmates in prison think like this, not responsible persons in loving relationships.

I still try to have sex with her whenever she wants it. There is just something that is gone and we haven't been able to find the key to get it back. The other night, she did everything I could have thought of as a teenager to turn me on, and so I know she loves me and wants to make it right, but something was missing, and is missing. Because everything is not lost, I hope to some day come to a comfortable spot that we both enjoy in our relationship, but please do not lecture me on how to get over this. That belies an ignorance of both human behavior, psychology and sexuality. Nobody is born that stupid. You have to go to school to get that stupid.

Mostly I've shared my experiences to keep the OP from feeling totally alone out there because I have been through it myself. I have never had a chance to discuss my feelings with somebody else who has been there, because generally men don't discuss sexual problems with their wives beyond very vague statements made on the golf course or around the campfire. The male ego is a powerful thing. When manipulated well by a good woman, it can cause men to achieve all sorts of success and happiness for those around him, when neglected, it can cause no end to hell for him and his family. This annonymous forum gives people the opportunity to share experiences to find out that we aren't wierd or sick, but very normal and sometimes exposed to abnormal situations. It is the cheapest therapy out there. I am very appreciative of the feminine responses out there; especially those that didn't include a variation of "Just get over it". I try to be aware in my dealings with others, that I can control what I do (regardless of what I feel), but I cannot control them, nor how they perceive me or will behave. It is why I still treat my wife as a good friend (she is), but there will likely always be an element missing from our marriage. Maybe it will be replaced with something (not someone) better. Or maybe it will just be one of those things in life that doesn't materialize.

[Anonymous]

To the OP, I think all of us have a lot of sympathy for you. But you are stuck in a victim mentality that is unhealthy and unproductive. If you cannot really forgive your wife than you should move on now, regardless of the money, kids etc. You cannot control/change the bad thing that happened to you but you can control how you feel about it.

[Anonymous]

PP here who asked about the psychological effects of being deprived of sex by spouse. Thanks this all resonates much. I am lucky if my DH wants to have sex 6 times a year - it is so sad becuase I am mid-thirties and each year think it will get better. Apparently it could be a down-ward slope.

For men out there who are not into sex with their wives,or have low sex drive: Can you explain to me what it is? Is it a lack of attraction to the wife? Lack of an emotional connection to the wife? Why are you withholding sex from your wives? Or is it just low libido? Stress at work? I am curious to hear a guys perspective of why he would only want to have sex with wife a handful of times a year. (Let's assume here, arguendo, that wife is physically fit and hasn't "let herself go" physically.) I am curious to know guy's perspective. IT has been five years now and I got more action in high school!

[Anonymous]

Oh yes! If you find out the answer please tell me. The reason changes every time I ask. I really want to know why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the OP, I think all of us have a lot of sympathy for you. But you are stuck in a victim mentality that is unhealthy and unproductive. If you cannot really forgive your wife than you should move on now, regardless of the money, kids etc. You cannot control/change the bad thing that happened to you but you can control how you feel about it.

I agree with this. OP, it looks like you have reasons to feel angry. But you're kind of demonstrating the truth of that old definition of insanity - expecting something different even though you keep doing the same thing over and over again. Seems like you're stuck in your anger. Maybe your options aren't good right now and you can't change them, but you can change your attitude. That attitude seems to be really tearing you up inside. You're not going to feel any better as you dwell on your wrongs, you're only going to feel worse. Take it from someone who's been there. Get some help so you can feel better and stop feeling sorry for yourself. Don't have an affair: out of respect for yourself, don't. It's stupid and destructive.

[Anonymous]

Start with ego. It is powerfully good and can be powerfully destructive. You can increase desire in males by testosterone treatments (or more accurately, libido). You can make his pecker as hard as a bodark fencepost with Viagra, but getting past the ego to talk to a doctor (the desire part, AKA give-a-shit) is the part that could be tricky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here who asked about the psychological effects of being deprived of sex by spouse. Thanks this all resonates much. I am lucky if my DH wants to have sex 6 times a year - it is so sad becuase I am mid-thirties and each year think it will get better. Apparently it could be a down-ward slope.

For men out there who are not into sex with their wives,or have low sex drive: Can you explain to me what it is? Is it a lack of attraction to the wife? Lack of an emotional connection to the wife? Why are you withholding sex from your wives? Or is it just low libido? Stress at work? I am curious to hear a guys perspective of why he would only want to have sex with wife a handful of times a year. (Let's assume here, arguendo, that wife is physically fit and hasn't "let herself go" physically.) I am curious to know guy's perspective. IT has been five years now and I got more action in high school!

For my husband, it's because he regards sex as work. He's lazy. He'd rather drink and watch TV. Some guys just aren't into it.

[jmiag04]

OP here, but I've given myself a tag so I don't have to keep saying it. To the one a few posts back who said I am to blame too, I disagree. At least with your specific point. I am not perfect and I'm sure I've done some things over the years to make her temporarily not want me, but I did not bottle this up. I would periodically tell her what was wrong, what it was doing to me, how I felt, and that it had to change. I didn't get into it every week or month, b/c I thought that was too much and it would piss her off. I usually spoke up when I felt desperate. Totally agree that if I had kept it to myself I could not feel so pissed about it. I did not - thus the grudge, she knew what it was doing to me and she didn't move until I threatened to walk out.

As to the person who recommended divorce right now, I really cannot do that. We got crushed in the housing collapse and are 2-3 years from getting back to even, sooner if she goes back to work. If we split up it will take many more years to pay the debt off. Second, like I may have said earlier, I'm not willing to not live with my kids yet. My youngest is in kindergarten, and while I'm sure it won't be easy or pleasant in 2-4 years, I cannot bear the through of not living with him right now.

Do I have a victim mentality? Maybe. I did, for quite some time, but I think now I feel pretty strong and positive - other than being pissed at her. My view is I will work on this, but in the back of my mind she owes me something and I don't know what it is or how to collect. If a nice opportunity presents itself, I may take it as my compensation and feel ok with it. Rather than a victim mentality, I would think this view is being a bit selfish and arrogant, but I feel justified.

To the women on here in my shoes, I don't get guys who don't want sex. I get being tired, or stressed, etc., but even when I am tired or want

To Mr. Bitter - thanks, I do appreciate you making it clear that I'm not alone and that I'm not crazy for not simply letting it go as if it was all some minor misunderstanding. I have one thing going for me - I'm only late 30s and I feel like I'm getting better as I get older and will continue to do so for at least the near future. My wife is a decade older, and let me be clear, I find many women in their 40s and 50s attractive. Very. Especially those who take care of themselves and show that they care. A 50 year old who is fit and confident, although of course not as perky as she was three decades earlier, is more impressive to me than a 22 year old who looks good because we were all fit at that age. Having said that, as general rule I suspect it will be harder for an early 50s woman with 3 kids to replace someone who loved and wanted her than it will be for me in a few years to replace someone who barely touched me anyway. At the end of the day, I am sure it will come down to how we think it will impact the kids. If I think it will be devastating, I'll stay not matter what. But, on that point, I know that they are not blind and they are aware there is a lot of negativity b/w me and my wife. It is not inconceivable they would be better off with us apart.

To the person who ended with "believe me there is nothing out there"? May I ask for clarification? Nobody decent of the opposite sex (not sure if you were a man or woman)? When I look around (I work in downtown DC with a lot of professionals) I see a lot of quality women, some of them having a hard time finding a decent man.

[jmiag04]

realize I left off mid thought in one of those paras. Basically, even if tired or pissed off, once a woman touches me that all goes away and I'm ready. I assume most guys are like this, but maybe not.

[Anonymous]

jmiag04 wrote:realize I left off mid thought in one of those paras. Basically, even if tired or pissed off, once a woman touches me that all goes away and I'm ready. I assume most guys are like this, but maybe not.

Not my DH. He won't talk to me, much less have sex, for three or four days after a fight, even if I try to touch him.

[Anonymous]

Sounds more like you are content with the status quo and looking for sympathy perhaps because your DW won't didn't put out for a long time? Doesn't sound like you are going to do anything about your situation and you don't have the financial means to remedy it either. Soooo what is the point of this? Are you looking for permission to have an affair? If so, I approve. Really doesn't bother me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP, I think all of us have a lot of sympathy for you. But you are stuck in a victim mentality that is unhealthy and unproductive. If you cannot really forgive your wife than you should move on now, regardless of the money, kids etc. You cannot control/change the bad thing that happened to you but you can control how you feel about it.

I agree with this. OP, it looks like you have reasons to feel angry. But you're kind of demonstrating the truth of that old definition of insanity - expecting something different even though you keep doing the same thing over and over again. Seems like you're stuck in your anger. Maybe your options aren't good right now and you can't change them, but you can change your attitude. That attitude seems to be really tearing you up inside. You're not going to feel any better as you dwell on your wrongs, you're only going to feel worse. Take it from someone who's been there. Get some help so you can feel better and stop feeling sorry for yourself. Don't have an affair: out of respect for yourself, don't. It's stupid and destructive.

Yes, OP. The more you talk the more I'm moving toward this camp. I definitely feel your disappointment and bitterness over what's occurred during the past 10 years. But make a decision to do something different. Don't make a plan that includes doing nothing, accepting whatever she offers and being open to an affair. Two wrongs don't make a right and if you actually do nothing you are just as culpable as she is in accepting a mediocre to disappointing relationship. It is totally possible that she loves you and doesn't realize you don't really love her anymore. If you don't want to do the work to address your feelings and try to improve your marriage then get out of it. Your kids will do better ending the marriage like this than if it blows up because of an affair. The latter leaves you holding the bag and looking like the bad guy.