unfair to hold a grudge?

[Anonymous]

I’ve found reading this post to be very informative. I am a woman who has “withheld” sex from my husband and it is very sobering to see the other perspective on this situation.

To the OP and the many responders in kind, I sympathize with your situation and my heart truly hurts for you as I realize that my husband must have had/have many of the same feelings as you are expressing.

To shed some light to the other side of the coin, I would like to share why it is that I lost the desire to have sex with my spouse.

The OP stated the commonly known fact that women expect a man to change, and they don’t and that men expect the women to stay the same, and they don’t. I know that this was the downfall to my marriage. When my husband and I were pre-kids, we had sex often. I am very much a go with the flow kind of person and my husband tends to like to dictate the pace of the day, so generally we were focused on him and I would say 90% of the day was dedicated to him (I am not at all laying any sort of guilt on this, it was fine at the time). When our first child arrived, six years into our relationship, I felt he did not change to adapt to the child. He still wanted everything to stay the same, and by this, I mean everything. I think that the child made him feel out of place and he was grasping to maintain his status. This is understandable in human nature, but trading in our paid off sedan for a 2 door sports car 2 weeks after the birth of our child does not instill much confidence in working as a team. It felt to me that he was more concerned with maintaining his routines, physique, etc. than embracing the changing family dynamic.

Our relationship started to deteriorate within months of our child’s arrival (which, from reading these boards is a pretty common occurrence, so I would say that it was a normal bump in the relationship). My husband was always loving to me, but often got frustrated with me when I could not focus my attention on him 100%. When there were rare moments where I had 15 minutes to myself, he would often want my undivided attention at that point. I felt that I was never getting any time to myself. He used to jokingly say that he’s not #1 anymore and he’d taken second place. I would comment to him that he’s lucky that he’s in second place, because my needs are last. This is just a brief capsulation of how these things can start. I think that it got to the point that I was devoting so much of my time to others that there was nothing left for me. I always enjoyed having sex with my husband, but for me, I think there was a switch that turned and he became more of someone that I took care of vs. someone that I partnered with – sex was the last thing that I wanted – it almost felt like I was having sex with my child vs. my husband.

In the beginning, he would often ask for sex, but stopped after being rebuffed and waited for my queues…which as much as I wanted to want to give him, I could not muster the desire. He and I had a discussion and he told me outright that he could probably last in a sexless marriage for a couple of years, but that he would likely have an affair to fill his needs. Internally, I was okay with this.

This is very long winded and I’m not sure if I’m giving you any perspective. My husband and I split over the summer – which I initiated. After the first 2 months, which were hellish, we have settled down and are ok. I know that we are uncommon, but I truly want happiness for him and we get along much better now that we do not have the sex void over our heads. We have 2 young children (2 and 4) and I think that it is best for them. We went to a therapist and asked what was best for the children (custody wise, mainly). She said what is best for the children is for them to see their parents have healthy relationships.

[Anonymous]

"To the person who ended with "believe me there is nothing out there"? May I ask for clarification? Nobody decent of the opposite sex (not sure if you were a man or woman)? When I look around (I work in downtown DC with a lot of professionals) I see a lot of quality women, some of them having a hard time finding a decent man. "

Ja, but by the time you are free, your personality will be so focked up, who would want you? You are already really messed up. Your kids must have picked up on your bitterness towards your wife.

OP - what would you advise your kid to do in this situation.

[Anonymous]

I am reading basically that you threw an idle threat of walking out the door at your DW which you said you cannot afford to do (she doesn't know this?) - This is kind of pathetic OP - what are you expecting out of all your rants? If it is really as bad as you say, figure it out and get out and let everyone else "move on."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realize that I am both bitter, angry and resentful. There are many out here who have never experienced what I and the several other posters are saying, and I hope dearly that it stays that way in your life. I don't walk around angry about it, in fact my wife probably thinks that my passion is dying as a result of growing older. The problem is that the passion was killed by her years ago, and unless you are a controlling freak of a spouse, you cannot possibly believe that just because you want something means you will automatically be able to get it. I wanted a sexual relationship with the woman I had a burning passion for and she did not. As a result, I now have a sexual relationship with a woman I love dearly, but the kind of sexual passion and chemistry we shared in the early years of our marriage has been killed. It isn't some choice you make to just walk through the door after work and decide that you will have these feelings again. It doesn't work like that (at least not for me). My wife is trying and I appreciate her efforts though I am now realizing the damage she did to the relationship may be worse than I ever imagined; and possibly worse than if she had an affair and ended it. I am forgiving of bad judgement and mistakes, and if I were unforgiving of her rejections, I wouldn't be with her, but actions; all actions have consequences. You cannot possibly imagine that you can treat somebody like this and expect it not to have consequences far beyond the here and now. Inmates in prison think like this, not responsible persons in loving relationships.

I still try to have sex with her whenever she wants it. There is just something that is gone and we haven't been able to find the key to get it back. The other night, she did everything I could have thought of as a teenager to turn me on, and so I know she loves me and wants to make it right, but something was missing, and is missing. Because everything is not lost, I hope to some day come to a comfortable spot that we both enjoy in our relationship, but please do not lecture me on how to get over this. That belies an ignorance of both human behavior, psychology and sexuality. Nobody is born that stupid. You have to go to school to get that stupid.

Mostly I've shared my experiences to keep the OP from feeling totally alone out there because I have been through it myself. I have never had a chance to discuss my feelings with somebody else who has been there, because generally men don't discuss sexual problems with their wives beyond very vague statements made on the golf course or around the campfire. The male ego is a powerful thing. When manipulated well by a good woman, it can cause men to achieve all sorts of success and happiness for those around him, when neglected, it can cause no end to hell for him and his family. This annonymous forum gives people the opportunity to share experiences to find out that we aren't wierd or sick, but very normal and sometimes exposed to abnormal situations. It is the cheapest therapy out there. I am very appreciative of the feminine responses out there; especially those that didn't include a variation of "Just get over it". I try to be aware in my dealings with others, that I can control what I do (regardless of what I feel), but I cannot control them, nor how they perceive me or will behave. It is why I still treat my wife as a good friend (she is), but there will likely always be an element missing from our marriage. Maybe it will be replaced with something (not someone) better. Or maybe it will just be one of those things in life that doesn't materialize.

This is perhaps the most obnoxious and entitled thing I have ever read on DCUM. So men *need* women to stroke their egos in order for families to have peaceful lives?

GMAFB.

[Anonymous]

OP, I am the PP who asked about the psychological impact of sex rejection, and to some extent the female mirror image situation of what you have. I would say to ignore the people who are talking about you having a "victim mentality". I think rather you are asking for anonymous public advice on what next steps to take in your life. Overall, it sounds like you are having fantasies of a revenge situatino also wher you get to turn the tables and "reject" your wife or have a justifiable affiar? I get this and it is easy to want an eye for an eye, kind of situation..... My big picture advice -- since you mentioned finances, etc.- is to focus now on getting your financial house in order, on making sure this personal situation isn't distracting you from your job-- and to always remember that "the best revenge is success." So cast your eye on a bigger prize than just a mere affair or rejection fo your wife.... .ubt instead focus on being the BEST YOU that you can be in 2012 (it sounds corny i know) and see if you can exceed your goals in career, finances, etc, and I guess masturbate in the interim..... but maybe your confidence will be the appeal....and if it is that your wife is trying to drag you down, then I would give yourself a three year ball park game to do an exit strategy...but make sure your career/physicque (gym/facials if necessary...yes even guys can get them) and your clothes and your career and house....etc....are all in order........okay, so just a woman's advice..... if you are moving on to the next step to search for love again, you will be more attractive to women at large if y9ou are confident/making the most of the next year and opportunities....and get your revenge by making the most of yourself..... you are young still and it is never to late to find another true love....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...mmonly known fact that women expect a man to change, and they don’t and that men expect the women to stay the same, and they don’t. I know that this was the downfall to my marriage. When my husband and I were pre-kids, we had sex often. I am very much a go with the flow kind of person and my husband tends to like to dictate the pace of the day, so generally we were focused on him and I would say 90% of the day was dedicated to him (I am not at all laying any sort of guilt on this, it was fine at the time). When our first child arrived, six years into our relationship, I felt he did not change to adapt to the child. He still wanted everything to stay the same, and by this, I mean everything. I think that the child made him feel out of place and he was grasping to maintain his status. This is understandable in human nature, but trading in our paid off sedan for a 2 door sports car 2 weeks after the birth of our child does not instill much confidence in working as a team. It felt to me that he was more concerned with maintaining his routines, physique, etc. than embracing the changing family dynamic.

Our relationship started to deteriorate within months of our child’s arrival (which, from reading these boards is a pretty common occurrence, so I would say that it was a normal bump in the relationship). My husband was always loving to me, but often got frustrated with me when I could not focus my attention on him 100%. When there were rare moments where I had 15 minutes to myself, he would often want my undivided attention at that point. I felt that I was never getting any time to myself. He used to jokingly say that he’s not #1 anymore and he’d taken second place. I would comment to him that he’s lucky that he’s in second place, because my needs are last. This is just a brief capsulation of how these things can start. I think that it got to the point that I was devoting so much of my time to others that there was nothing left for me. I always enjoyed having sex ...
In the beginning, he would often ask for sex, but stopped after being rebuffed and waited for my queues…which as much as I wanted to want to give him, I could not muster the desire. He and I had a discussion and he told me outright that he could probably last in a sexless marriage for a couple of years, but that he would likely have an affair to fill his needs. Internally, I was okay with this.

This is very long winded and I’m not sure if I’m giving you any perspective. My husband and I split over the summer – which I initiated. After the first 2 months, which were hellish, we have settled down and are ok. I know that we are uncommon, but I truly want happiness for him and we get along much better now that we do not have the sex void over our heads. We have 2 young children (2 and 4) and I think that it is best for them. We went to a therapist and asked what was best for the children (custody wise, mainly). She said what is best for the children is for them to see their parents have healthy relationships.

Let no man put asunder. Includes men women and children. If you put somebody or thing before your spouse your marriage will be miserable and or fail.

[Anonymous]

Sure, hold a grudge. It's the best way to get someone to want to sleep with you again.

[Anonymous]

OP, I might suggest you read "Hot Monogamy" and see if you're interested in a kind of intense couples counseling that is described in the book. It is a lot of work but has brought couples back from the brink, couples who had spent years assuming they no longer had any feelings for each other. I say this because it sounds like you do love your wife, you also just have a lot of powerful and difficult feelings that are preventing you from having the relationship that you want and crave with her, and there is a lot of baggage and history that needs to be dealt with, in a proper manner, in order to move forward. But it can be done if both parties are truly willing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...mmonly known fact that women expect a man to change, and they don’t and that men expect the women to stay the same, and they don’t. I know that this was the downfall to my marriage. When my husband and I were pre-kids, we had sex often. I am very much a go with the flow kind of person and my husband tends to like to dictate the pace of the day, so generally we were focused on him and I would say 90% of the day was dedicated to him (I am not at all laying any sort of guilt on this, it was fine at the time). When our first child arrived, six years into our relationship, I felt he did not change to adapt to the child. He still wanted everything to stay the same, and by this, I mean everything. I think that the child made him feel out of place and he was grasping to maintain his status. This is understandable in human nature, but trading in our paid off sedan for a 2 door sports car 2 weeks after the birth of our child does not instill much confidence in working as a team. It felt to me that he was more concerned with maintaining his routines, physique, etc. than embracing the changing family dynamic.

Our relationship started to deteriorate within months of our child’s arrival (which, from reading these boards is a pretty common occurrence, so I would say that it was a normal bump in the relationship). My husband was always loving to me, but often got frustrated with me when I could not focus my attention on him 100%. When there were rare moments where I had 15 minutes to myself, he would often want my undivided attention at that point. I felt that I was never getting any time to myself. He used to jokingly say that he’s not #1 anymore and he’d taken second place. I would comment to him that he’s lucky that he’s in second place, because my needs are last. This is just a brief capsulation of how these things can start. I think that it got to the point that I was devoting so much of my time to others that there was nothing left for me. I always enjoyed having sex ...
In the beginning, he would often ask for sex, but stopped after being rebuffed and waited for my queues…which as much as I wanted to want to give him, I could not muster the desire. He and I had a discussion and he told me outright that he could probably last in a sexless marriage for a couple of years, but that he would likely have an affair to fill his needs. Internally, I was okay with this.

This is very long winded and I’m not sure if I’m giving you any perspective. My husband and I split over the summer – which I initiated. After the first 2 months, which were hellish, we have settled down and are ok. I know that we are uncommon, but I truly want happiness for him and we get along much better now that we do not have the sex void over our heads. We have 2 young children (2 and 4) and I think that it is best for them. We went to a therapist and asked what was best for the children (custody wise, mainly). She said what is best for the children is for them to see their parents have healthy relationships.

Let no man put asunder. Includes men women and children. If you put somebody or thing before your spouse your marriage will be miserable and or fail.

You are exactly right. Her husband ranked his own needs as priority #1 and subsequently lost his wife. Acting as if you're in competition with a helpless infant is pitiful. No one wants to sleep with a man-child who is trying desperately to pretend like they aren't a father. WTF getting a sports car after the baby is born? Idiot. That message is loud and clear. I don't blame her one bit for not wanting to sleep with him and then leaving his ass. Making your wife feel like she has to coddle you is not sexy.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry but I think the DW here is not helping the cause of withholding wives. Did she try counseling? Therapy? When her husband asked her for sex, what did she say? It sounds like they both let the marriage die and now DW wants sympathy. The OP, however, has been trying for years and his wife swears she will do something then does nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve found reading this post to be very informative. I am a woman who has “withheld” sex from my husband and it is very sobering to see the other perspective on this situation.

To the OP and the many responders in kind, I sympathize with your situation and my heart truly hurts for you as I realize that my husband must have had/have many of the same feelings as you are expressing.

To shed some light to the other side of the coin, I would like to share why it is that I lost the desire to have sex with my spouse.

The OP stated the commonly known fact that women expect a man to change, and they don’t and that men expect the women to stay the same, and they don’t. I know that this was the downfall to my marriage. When my husband and I were pre-kids, we had sex often. I am very much a go with the flow kind of person and my husband tends to like to dictate the pace of the day, so generally we were focused on him and I would say 90% of the day was dedicated to him (I am not at all laying any sort of guilt on this, it was fine at the time). When our first child arrived, six years into our relationship, I felt he did not change to adapt to the child. He still wanted everything to stay the same, and by this, I mean everything. I think that the child made him feel out of place and he was grasping to maintain his status. This is understandable in human nature, but trading in our paid off sedan for a 2 door sports car 2 weeks after the birth of our child does not instill much confidence in working as a team. It felt to me that he was more concerned with maintaining his routines, physique, etc. than embracing the changing family dynamic.

Our relationship started to deteriorate within months of our child’s arrival (which, from reading these boards is a pretty common occurrence, so I would say that it was a normal bump in the relationship). My husband was always loving to me, but often got frustrated with me when I could not focus my attention on him 100%. When there were rare moments where I had 15 minutes to myself, he would often want my undivided attention at that point. I felt that I was never getting any time to myself. He used to jokingly say that he’s not #1 anymore and he’d taken second place. I would comment to him that he’s lucky that he’s in second place, because my needs are last. This is just a brief capsulation of how these things can start. I think that it got to the point that I was devoting so much of my time to others that there was nothing left for me. I always enjoyed having sex with my husband, but for me, I think there was a switch that turned and he became more of someone that I took care of vs. someone that I partnered with – sex was the last thing that I wanted – it almost felt like I was having sex with my child vs. my husband.

In the beginning, he would often ask for sex, but stopped after being rebuffed and waited for my queues…which as much as I wanted to want to give him, I could not muster the desire. He and I had a discussion and he told me outright that he could probably last in a sexless marriage for a couple of years, but that he would likely have an affair to fill his needs. Internally, I was okay with this.

This is very long winded and I’m not sure if I’m giving you any perspective. My husband and I split over the summer – which I initiated. After the first 2 months, which were hellish, we have settled down and are ok. I know that we are uncommon, but I truly want happiness for him and we get along much better now that we do not have the sex void over our heads. We have 2 young children (2 and 4) and I think that it is best for them. We went to a therapist and asked what was best for the children (custody wise, mainly). She said what is best for the children is for them to see their parents have healthy relationships.

PP - I think this is a really good description of what happens in a lot of these "sexless" marriages. My DH and I had this dynamic for 3-4 years. It started toward the end of my pregnancy and continued until he had a brief affair. We reconciled, but I still haven't forgiven him for either the affair or for being totally and completely unconsiderate of my needs for so long. No, I did not want him to "change" after the kids were born into anything that he wasn't, but I absolutely expected him to step up and be a 50% partner in parenting and he let me be the 100% partner and swooped in every once in a while to "help".

Now part of this was my fault of course. I took a lot on myself because he bitterly complained whenever I asked him to do something and eventually I just stopped asking. Like he always said "why don't you go out with my girlfriends and he'll watch the kids some night". In the beginning I did, but then listening to him bitch about how miserable his night was going to be as I was getting ready, and then getting 2-3 calls as I was out with the baby screaming in the background, and then coming home to a complete mess of a house, baby, and husband. It was just not worth it. So I stopped asking to go out and stopped asking for help. And eventually everything because my responsibility. I'm sure he sees it that I never "let" him do anything or that I complained about the way he did things when he tried to help. I was the one up all night with the kids, neither of whom slept well for two years. I took on all the daycare decisions and the drop-off/pick-up coordination (and again, I tried to share these things in the beginning, but he either wouldn't do them or would complain bitterly about how busy he was at work and how much work all this was and how much money this was costing us, etc).

We both work full-time. He would come home and lay out on the couch and tell me he needed some unwinding time. We had fights about this in the beginning, but then it became easier just to ignore him and cook dinner with a kid on my hip and then clean up everything and then get baby ready for bed and nurse him down every single night because husband would act like he was put upon and that he just needed some "me" time after working all day. Every party we went to - I was the default one watching the kids. He would go and waltz off like he was there by himself and leave me to run around after them. He started traveling more frequently for work and saying that he just "needed" those weeks of travel to take a break (from us, I would hear, even though he didn't say it). Where was my break?

At the end of each night, after handling practically everything about our lives, working a full day, getting the kids up and out and then home and fed and in bed. Knowing that the baby was going to wake up again in an hour, and he would make me feel guilty for not wanting to be intimate with him. I was exhausted and resentful and hormonal. And angry. And perhaps it would have been better to talk to him about these things or force him to help or any other way of coping, but I did not. I shut down. I would still be intimate at least once a week - I was not "withholding" it entirely. But I think it was probably obvious that I was not into it, although I did my best.

And he saw it as rejection and I was putting the children first and I wasn't thinking about his needs. I guess I was. But I didn't feel like he cared an ounce about anything I was going through and how much I was putting into caring for our babies. He never a single time said he was sorry that I was so tired or just hugged me or anything.

Then on one of those travel weeks he was doing, he slept with someone. Said he was checked out of the marriage, felt rejected, needed sex.

I think this is very common (though maybe not to the same degree). Certainly some wives withhold intimacy for other reasons, but I would suggest taking a long hard look at what your wife is trying to tell you. Are you showing her you care about HER and about how she feels in the way she wants to be cared for?

[Anonymous]

To the PP who said the male ego is a powerful thing, I burst out laughing. The male ego is the most fragile, wimpy thing out there. Bar none.

[Anonymous]

When my DH and I were going through a drought post the birth of our first I told him I'd jump his bones if he cleaned up after dinner, picked up a broom or when the baby cried in the middle of the night said sweetly, "I've got him. You go back to sleep." - without being asked and then doing it begrudgingly. I told him I needed him to have a more helpful spirit. The man flat out told me he didn't believe that those things had anything to do with my dramatically decreased interest in sex post child(ren) and subsequently he spent years on the lower end of the sex spectrum.

Once he started making more money his response was for me to hire someone - housekeeper, nanny, night nurse, anyone to help me out as long as it wasn't him. Now that the kids are getting older it's better b/c they engage him and he response wholeheartedly, but it's rough around here when we had little ones and an unplanned 3rd child almost pushed us over the edge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my DH and I were going through a drought post the birth of our first I told him I'd jump his bones if he cleaned up after dinner, picked up a broom or when the baby cried in the middle of the night said sweetly, "I've got him. You go back to sleep." - without being asked and then doing it begrudgingly. I told him I needed him to have a more helpful spirit. The man flat out told me he didn't believe that those things had anything to do with my dramatically decreased interest in sex post child(ren) and subsequently he spent years on the lower end of the sex spectrum.

Once he started making more money his response was for me to hire someone - housekeeper, nanny, night nurse, anyone to help me out as long as it wasn't him. Now that the kids are getting older it's better b/c they engage him and he response wholeheartedly, but it's rough around here when we had little ones and an unplanned 3rd child almost pushed us over the edge.

You could be me . I think there are a lot of us out there.

[Anonymous]

Op -- I am curious what you think would have made a difference in your marriage. I think you do sound thoughtful. What could you both have done to not be where you are today?